I honestly have no idea why having the full Vesta set would help at all in a PartGen build.
Basically to answer your question, it wouldn't help at all. There's a large majority of the player base though who still feel that to fly a science ship properly you need to turn it into an escort, hence why the Vesta is so popular and why people still cry when they don't get extra tac console slots on any science ship out there. Look at how many people post in "help with science ship" posts in the Academy that still tell people that to fly a science ship properly you need 125 in weapon energy.
@ OP I own pretty much every science ship out there but the Wells.
Vesta - I like the Vesta you can do some good things with it, especially back in the day, but it's not the top dog anymore and I wouldn't waste the zen on it. The nice things about it are the aux cannon and the hanger bay, but with no secondary deflector and on a part gen/torp build it's just not all that great when compared to some of the newer ships out there.
Dyson C-Store - Nice ship, lovely ship, but too many people fall into the trap of flying it in Destroyer mode instead of as a science ship, and as a destroyer it lacks. If you're going to fly it in Destroyer mode, just fly a science themed escort. Otherwise as a science ship it's not bad, but there are better out there for purchase.
Dauntless - If you want a ship that's more tac flavored with a heavier reliance on your torps, this is the ship for you. You can slot Torp Spread III and II as well as two tact teams, and still have a heavy science presence with it's secondary deflector. Still as a heavy science vessel it's not all that.
Scryer - I love this ship for PvP. Using all it's toys, including the console, you can debuff an enemy into the dirt. Decent survivability with that LCDR Engineer slot as well, and with a little creativity you can slot in a couple of Intel slots. My only real issue with it is that it's ugly as sin.
Still for PvE I prefer...
Pathfinder - I prefer this over the Scryer for PvP because of the Aero. Not quite as survivable, I tend to slot my Universal with an Engineer, and then use the LT Engi/Intel slot for engie team I and emp probe I. I wasn't a huge fan of EMP probe until I started using the rreversed TBR. TBR them into your back, then toss a EMP probe at them when they're all nice an bunched up and near you. Little fly time and accurate. Probably the best Heavy Science ship out there right now, and that Aero will basically be another target for the NPCs to take out.
As to why I prefer the Scryer for PvP is that it's a better single target killer and more survivability. I prefer the Pathfinder for PvE because unlike players, NPCs won't totally ignore your Aero and even on Elite I need less survivability then I do in PvP. Plus PvE tends to have a lot more mob groups and less single target, so having something that helps clear out the mob trash is nice.
I'm currently playing the Scryer and I'm in love with it. Mind you, I play it heavily as a science ship first and foremost. You don't play it as a big DPS ship, but as a debuffer, disabler, and crowd control specialist.
Plus Intel ships have one absolutely glorious boff ability that others don't: Override Subsystem Safeties, one of the very few ways you can raise your Aux cap, which is rather useful when you decloak, tractor and tyken's rift something in the face. And then have your way with them once their shields drop and their weapon systems go offline.
er... it depends.
For crowd controlling, the Scryer is the new top dog hands down, due to having access to Intel stuff. About Particle generator is on the same line. OSS can boost sci abilities for a bit, but that's about it.
Pathfinder can do wonders as a drain boat, and the trait it comes with is really good. OSS boosts drain powers by a lot. It can't use EWP, so forget CC on it, and for Particle generator stuff, see below.
Vesta is the best platform for particle generator stuff as long as you have the set. If you do, the Quantum Phaser, AoE Fermion Field, kinetic reflect shield and the immunity button wins over the Scryer.
Hmmm ... I too am curious about the Pathfinder as I heard the Aero is actually kinda useful. Plus there's a combo sale on both ships and zen at the moment, so it's really tempting.
On one hand, I'd LOVE to try out a Vesta as I just got my hands on an elite scorpion hangar, and I dig that you can load cannons on it. On the other hand, I already have a carrier in the form of the Atrox (that also can equip cannons, oddly enough), so I have somewhere to slot it.
But as mentioned just above, there is one godly boff ability only available to T6 ships, and that's Override Subsystem Safeties. Every time I play around with one of my T5Us, I cry a little inside as I don't have that ability slotted. OSS is, in my opinion, the BEST burst damage/control ability out there as you can find yourself with over 150 to your Aux and Weapons in that crucial moment where you appear and blow through cooldowns to nix your target.
I have the DR pack, so I have both the Scryer and Dauntless.
Scryer is a great Science heavy ship. While I'm iffy when it comes to Active Sensor Arrays on most Intel ships (targets tend to die long before they become exposed in my experience), the fact that it can cloak, can carry a ton of Intelligence boff abilities, and can load cannons makes this a very very impressive ship if what you are looking for is pure science.
Dauntless is also a great ship, but for different reasons. It's not so much a science ship as it is a science escort. Despite only having six weapon slots and not being able to equip cannons, it's fast and has lots of tac abilities. My build with this ship involves combining OSS2 with Energy Siphon 3 and Tyken's Rift 2 to simultaneously drain my target into the dirt and give myself a huge energy boost that makes me hit like a truck and have virtually impenetrable shields for the less than half a minute it takes to nuke my target. I'm very reckless with this ship in PVE, but due to my shield levels jumping to over 100, I feel I can be. The only times I've died in this ship is when I was one shot by capital ships because I wasn't paying attention.
So my opinion is this: If you want to stay back and toss Gravity Wells and other exotic abilities into the mix, while also providing some heal support as needed, go Scryer. Would work well with a torp build if you ask me. On the other hand, if you prefer jumping into the fray with a hybrid, go Dauntless. Vesta can fit both, but I think most people prefer to play it as a science escort rather than a pure science ship.
As for the Pathfinder ... I don't know. I'd love to have it, but I'm also wondering if it's worth it as I already have two other T6 science ships.
Pathfinder really shines with the delta turnrate/flight speed trait and the r&d engineering console, you are agile enough that 3/4 of hits fired upon you miss which also procs reciprocity reducing cooldown on very valuable tac skills and OSS.
Gotta give another vote for the Pathfinder. It is very awesome. And the aero is very good also - decent dps but great support option.
It can run OSS2, putting it a league ahead of the Vesta in most scenarios. Or Ionic Turbulence and OSS1 - to mitigate not having EWP.
I'm not sure how it measures up against the Scyer, but I'd say it is openly better than the Dauntless - its not overburdened with Tac boffs. I just hope it gets a 3rd tac console at fleet level.
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I am taking the traits from the other ships and then continuing to use the Vesta.
But the Scryer does have a few cool things going for it. also aesthetically if you take the nacelles from the phantom and put them on the scryer, it looks like an updated Oberth Class.
Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
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T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
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You may be waiting a very long time in hopes of a T6 Vesta. Because I foresee the "hero ships" like Galaxy-class, Sovereign-class, Defiant-class, B'Rel BOPs, Vor'Chas, D'Deridexes, etc. making the transition from T5 to T6 first than the made up ones. A gut feeling, but watching Cryptic's behavior with T6 ships, I feel this is on the money.
hero ships ??? You should read the novels and see what cpt. Ezri Dax did with U.S.S Aventine... Anyway Vesta is a good class versatile , rezilient , powerfull , but outdated like all other tu5 ships ... there is ONLY one choice atm in this game ... go intel , Craptic screwed this . Maybe in the near future they will make some upgrade to the old ships ,that i like better than new ones , even their design sux and they are to alien for Star Trek. If i want alien ... theres EVE ...
hero ships ??? You should read the novels and see what cpt. Ezri Dax did with U.S.S Aventine... Anyway Vesta is a good class versatile , rezilient , powerfull , but outdated like all other tu5 ships ... there is ONLY one choice atm in this game ... go intel , Craptic screwed this . Maybe in the near future they will make some upgrade to the old ships ,that i like better than new ones , even their design sux and they are to alien for Star Trek. If i want alien ... theres EVE ...
Novels are not canon, hence no new heroships there...
Aww no love for the dauntless here my Sci uses it and loves it.of course don't forget the sarr theln is an epic drain carrier (and free). Also have weavers and recluses both are very capable.weaver is straight up good science but kind of Whaley compared to other options that don't have hangers
I'm not sure how it measures up against the Scyer, but I'd say it is openly better than the Dauntless - its not overburdened with Tac boffs. I just hope it gets a 3rd tac console at fleet level.
Pathfinder is overall better as a pure Sci ship out of the current selection of T6 sci ships, though not by much. The Scryer is almost as capable; moreso if you decide to use the 3 set consoles on the Pathfinder instead of just going for a focused Sci build.
Scryer comes close, but it's more suited to focused Debuffing with secondary AoE, as well as its access to high level Intel skills. The thing with the Scryer is that in addition to Sensor Analysis, it can also use Intel Analysis at the same time (along with Subsystem Targeting), allowing for considerable focused Debuffing of one target. Moreso if you choose to outfit for single-target havoc using all those single-target Sci skills. At the same time, the Scryer's console is a pretty potent AoE debuff, which works well alongside the likes of Gravity Well, Ionic Turbulence, and Tyken, among other multi-target sci-skills.
Between the Scryer and Pathfinder, it comes down to personal preference. Both can do the Sci destruction job pretty well; it's just a matter of how you want to do it.
I still roll out the Vesta occasionally as as T5-U it's still pretty dammed good. But i really like the looks and customization options for the Pathfinder plus as a ship with a heavy science slant it's pretty effective with any career captain in it.
Been using it on my tac, same guy who flys the Vesta and i'd say it's just as good in it's current state with only 2 tac consoles. The fleet version with a 3rd tac console will be even more fun, it can throw out a lot of damage as it is so an extra tac will boost it considerably.
Only downside compared to my Vesta is the lack of cannons and decent level boff slots for cannon abilities on the Pathfinder. I run her as a CC ship with plenty of TS and GW3 thrown at the enemies. I just find that the Vesta being able to use DHC's and run CSV2 synergizes better with that CC tactic as you focus more fire in your front arc, where the NPC's are bunched up in your grav well.
Pathfinder can use BFAW sure but that is a less focused attack and subsequently spreads your DPS out more, in particular at targets not in your grav well that you maybe don't want to aggro.
I'm new here on the forums, but have been flying my Vesta for a while.
Haven't tried the other mentioned ships, but from a Vesta cpt standpoint, i think people are making a mistake when they compare it with other sci ships, because, well - it isn't one! Sounds stupid, but hold on a bit...
It's a hybrid ship with a unique aux mechanism, and should be treated as such. I have been developing my build for some time and from what i've concluded, the Vesta looks versitale, but it really isn't. There are only two viable builds - sci-scort exotic and tac-carrier CC (also, permutations of it). Anything else is a bit dissapointing, really, more so if you plan to use it as a pure support craft.
Of course, in it's preferred role - an in-your-face "battlemage" if you wiil, it often gets ridiculous.
My Tac Vesta does a 2pc Adapted MACO/MACO/Elite Fleet A-S core, dual Aux cannons, bio-phaser turrets, gravimetric photons and KCB with 3pc Counter command, all three Vesta consoles, Borg, Solanae and Delta consoles and bunch of fleet ones. Advanced Runabouts are what's buzzing around. I run a lt. and lt. com tac wit TS3, TT and cannon stuff, lt. and ens. eng and the rest goes to sci, with dual GW (III and I) and all the heal goodness. Full speced on particle and graviton gens, goes without saying. I keep my aux at 130, with both aux to defense and aux to att. rep traits.
With only 3 weapons and 4 consoles on XIII (the rest is on plain old XII), i struggle to be anything but first place in all the crowded PvEs, and can control whole parts od advanced STFs. The romulan rep cloak + GWIII + Sensor scan + grav. torp. TSIII + scatter + Vesta phaser console and i'm in DPS heaven, with huge numbers of tough things dying fast, but i also have a limited quazi-apha strike thing with high-ish DPS peak. Also, the heals and the rest of the Vesta consoles often refuse to let me die. With everything on XIV, it's borderline OP, i'd imagine.
Is does have the ability to PVE and PVP with equal succes, using just minor tweaks of the same build.
In 1v1PvP with my friends, i switched lt. com. from tac to sci, added a few disable goodies and found that an antiproton DBB Fleet Avenger and a drain/plasma Fleet Patrol Escort are no mach.
The down side is - anything else is not using all of the potentials. It is very easy to (unintentionally) turn the Vesta into a underdeveloped escort with a nice punch, but a short lifespan, or a semi-useful GW spamer.
I played a lot of PvE content pugs with Scryer pilots and can't say i'm impressed with their impact. From the momet they published the specs for it, it screamed "PvP" to me.
Pathfinder looks to be the most potent pure sci, but i haven't seen much of them. The "no love for sci" theme carries on...
In terms of the title, without entering the "best sci ship" discussion, (T5U) Vesta is still one of THE ships in the game.
I own all but the Dauntless, so I can't speak on that. I had the Vesta pack for a long time, bit didn't end up using it a whole lot. Then I bought the Scryer, which is neat, but not my favorite. What I do love about it is it's trait, which I just use on my other ships. Then the Pathfinder was the only ship that I flew for a long time. I still love it as a pure science ship, plus it is a beautiful ship. Then I was just playing around with the Vesta, putting Thoron Polarons on there just for fun. I realized that I hate those weapons, and so I started switching out weapons, consoles, etc. It is a drain/CC sciscort that kicks TRIBBLE. It has ended up being my absolute favorite. I think that the only way that I'll switch is if they come out with a t6 Vesta, where I can keep my same load out, but add on to it. So for pure sci, my vote is Pathfinder, for a sciscort, my vote is Vesta.
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Basically to answer your question, it wouldn't help at all. There's a large majority of the player base though who still feel that to fly a science ship properly you need to turn it into an escort, hence why the Vesta is so popular and why people still cry when they don't get extra tac console slots on any science ship out there. Look at how many people post in "help with science ship" posts in the Academy that still tell people that to fly a science ship properly you need 125 in weapon energy.
@ OP I own pretty much every science ship out there but the Wells.
Vesta - I like the Vesta you can do some good things with it, especially back in the day, but it's not the top dog anymore and I wouldn't waste the zen on it. The nice things about it are the aux cannon and the hanger bay, but with no secondary deflector and on a part gen/torp build it's just not all that great when compared to some of the newer ships out there.
Dyson C-Store - Nice ship, lovely ship, but too many people fall into the trap of flying it in Destroyer mode instead of as a science ship, and as a destroyer it lacks. If you're going to fly it in Destroyer mode, just fly a science themed escort. Otherwise as a science ship it's not bad, but there are better out there for purchase.
Dauntless - If you want a ship that's more tac flavored with a heavier reliance on your torps, this is the ship for you. You can slot Torp Spread III and II as well as two tact teams, and still have a heavy science presence with it's secondary deflector. Still as a heavy science vessel it's not all that.
Scryer - I love this ship for PvP. Using all it's toys, including the console, you can debuff an enemy into the dirt. Decent survivability with that LCDR Engineer slot as well, and with a little creativity you can slot in a couple of Intel slots. My only real issue with it is that it's ugly as sin.
Still for PvE I prefer...
Pathfinder - I prefer this over the Scryer for PvP because of the Aero. Not quite as survivable, I tend to slot my Universal with an Engineer, and then use the LT Engi/Intel slot for engie team I and emp probe I. I wasn't a huge fan of EMP probe until I started using the rreversed TBR. TBR them into your back, then toss a EMP probe at them when they're all nice an bunched up and near you. Little fly time and accurate. Probably the best Heavy Science ship out there right now, and that Aero will basically be another target for the NPCs to take out.
As to why I prefer the Scryer for PvP is that it's a better single target killer and more survivability. I prefer the Pathfinder for PvE because unlike players, NPCs won't totally ignore your Aero and even on Elite I need less survivability then I do in PvP. Plus PvE tends to have a lot more mob groups and less single target, so having something that helps clear out the mob trash is nice.
Plus Intel ships have one absolutely glorious boff ability that others don't: Override Subsystem Safeties, one of the very few ways you can raise your Aux cap, which is rather useful when you decloak, tractor and tyken's rift something in the face. And then have your way with them once their shields drop and their weapon systems go offline.
Hand-down, the Vesta.
For crowd controlling, the Scryer is the new top dog hands down, due to having access to Intel stuff. About Particle generator is on the same line. OSS can boost sci abilities for a bit, but that's about it.
Pathfinder can do wonders as a drain boat, and the trait it comes with is really good. OSS boosts drain powers by a lot. It can't use EWP, so forget CC on it, and for Particle generator stuff, see below.
Vesta is the best platform for particle generator stuff as long as you have the set. If you do, the Quantum Phaser, AoE Fermion Field, kinetic reflect shield and the immunity button wins over the Scryer.
On one hand, I'd LOVE to try out a Vesta as I just got my hands on an elite scorpion hangar, and I dig that you can load cannons on it. On the other hand, I already have a carrier in the form of the Atrox (that also can equip cannons, oddly enough), so I have somewhere to slot it.
But as mentioned just above, there is one godly boff ability only available to T6 ships, and that's Override Subsystem Safeties. Every time I play around with one of my T5Us, I cry a little inside as I don't have that ability slotted. OSS is, in my opinion, the BEST burst damage/control ability out there as you can find yourself with over 150 to your Aux and Weapons in that crucial moment where you appear and blow through cooldowns to nix your target.
I have the DR pack, so I have both the Scryer and Dauntless.
Scryer is a great Science heavy ship. While I'm iffy when it comes to Active Sensor Arrays on most Intel ships (targets tend to die long before they become exposed in my experience), the fact that it can cloak, can carry a ton of Intelligence boff abilities, and can load cannons makes this a very very impressive ship if what you are looking for is pure science.
Dauntless is also a great ship, but for different reasons. It's not so much a science ship as it is a science escort. Despite only having six weapon slots and not being able to equip cannons, it's fast and has lots of tac abilities. My build with this ship involves combining OSS2 with Energy Siphon 3 and Tyken's Rift 2 to simultaneously drain my target into the dirt and give myself a huge energy boost that makes me hit like a truck and have virtually impenetrable shields for the less than half a minute it takes to nuke my target. I'm very reckless with this ship in PVE, but due to my shield levels jumping to over 100, I feel I can be. The only times I've died in this ship is when I was one shot by capital ships because I wasn't paying attention.
So my opinion is this: If you want to stay back and toss Gravity Wells and other exotic abilities into the mix, while also providing some heal support as needed, go Scryer. Would work well with a torp build if you ask me. On the other hand, if you prefer jumping into the fray with a hybrid, go Dauntless. Vesta can fit both, but I think most people prefer to play it as a science escort rather than a pure science ship.
As for the Pathfinder ... I don't know. I'd love to have it, but I'm also wondering if it's worth it as I already have two other T6 science ships.
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It can run OSS2, putting it a league ahead of the Vesta in most scenarios. Or Ionic Turbulence and OSS1 - to mitigate not having EWP.
I'm not sure how it measures up against the Scyer, but I'd say it is openly better than the Dauntless - its not overburdened with Tac boffs. I just hope it gets a 3rd tac console at fleet level.
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But the Scryer does have a few cool things going for it. also aesthetically if you take the nacelles from the phantom and put them on the scryer, it looks like an updated Oberth Class.
hero ships ??? You should read the novels and see what cpt. Ezri Dax did with U.S.S Aventine... Anyway Vesta is a good class versatile , rezilient , powerfull , but outdated like all other tu5 ships ... there is ONLY one choice atm in this game ... go intel , Craptic screwed this . Maybe in the near future they will make some upgrade to the old ships ,that i like better than new ones , even their design sux and they are to alien for Star Trek. If i want alien ... theres EVE ...
Novels are not canon, hence no new heroships there...
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Scryer comes close, but it's more suited to focused Debuffing with secondary AoE, as well as its access to high level Intel skills. The thing with the Scryer is that in addition to Sensor Analysis, it can also use Intel Analysis at the same time (along with Subsystem Targeting), allowing for considerable focused Debuffing of one target. Moreso if you choose to outfit for single-target havoc using all those single-target Sci skills. At the same time, the Scryer's console is a pretty potent AoE debuff, which works well alongside the likes of Gravity Well, Ionic Turbulence, and Tyken, among other multi-target sci-skills.
Between the Scryer and Pathfinder, it comes down to personal preference. Both can do the Sci destruction job pretty well; it's just a matter of how you want to do it.
Been using it on my tac, same guy who flys the Vesta and i'd say it's just as good in it's current state with only 2 tac consoles. The fleet version with a 3rd tac console will be even more fun, it can throw out a lot of damage as it is so an extra tac will boost it considerably.
Only downside compared to my Vesta is the lack of cannons and decent level boff slots for cannon abilities on the Pathfinder. I run her as a CC ship with plenty of TS and GW3 thrown at the enemies. I just find that the Vesta being able to use DHC's and run CSV2 synergizes better with that CC tactic as you focus more fire in your front arc, where the NPC's are bunched up in your grav well.
Pathfinder can use BFAW sure but that is a less focused attack and subsequently spreads your DPS out more, in particular at targets not in your grav well that you maybe don't want to aggro.
Haven't tried the other mentioned ships, but from a Vesta cpt standpoint, i think people are making a mistake when they compare it with other sci ships, because, well - it isn't one! Sounds stupid, but hold on a bit...
It's a hybrid ship with a unique aux mechanism, and should be treated as such. I have been developing my build for some time and from what i've concluded, the Vesta looks versitale, but it really isn't. There are only two viable builds - sci-scort exotic and tac-carrier CC (also, permutations of it). Anything else is a bit dissapointing, really, more so if you plan to use it as a pure support craft.
Of course, in it's preferred role - an in-your-face "battlemage" if you wiil, it often gets ridiculous.
My Tac Vesta does a 2pc Adapted MACO/MACO/Elite Fleet A-S core, dual Aux cannons, bio-phaser turrets, gravimetric photons and KCB with 3pc Counter command, all three Vesta consoles, Borg, Solanae and Delta consoles and bunch of fleet ones. Advanced Runabouts are what's buzzing around. I run a lt. and lt. com tac wit TS3, TT and cannon stuff, lt. and ens. eng and the rest goes to sci, with dual GW (III and I) and all the heal goodness. Full speced on particle and graviton gens, goes without saying. I keep my aux at 130, with both aux to defense and aux to att. rep traits.
With only 3 weapons and 4 consoles on XIII (the rest is on plain old XII), i struggle to be anything but first place in all the crowded PvEs, and can control whole parts od advanced STFs. The romulan rep cloak + GWIII + Sensor scan + grav. torp. TSIII + scatter + Vesta phaser console and i'm in DPS heaven, with huge numbers of tough things dying fast, but i also have a limited quazi-apha strike thing with high-ish DPS peak. Also, the heals and the rest of the Vesta consoles often refuse to let me die. With everything on XIV, it's borderline OP, i'd imagine.
Is does have the ability to PVE and PVP with equal succes, using just minor tweaks of the same build.
In 1v1PvP with my friends, i switched lt. com. from tac to sci, added a few disable goodies and found that an antiproton DBB Fleet Avenger and a drain/plasma Fleet Patrol Escort are no mach.
The down side is - anything else is not using all of the potentials. It is very easy to (unintentionally) turn the Vesta into a underdeveloped escort with a nice punch, but a short lifespan, or a semi-useful GW spamer.
I played a lot of PvE content pugs with Scryer pilots and can't say i'm impressed with their impact. From the momet they published the specs for it, it screamed "PvP" to me.
Pathfinder looks to be the most potent pure sci, but i haven't seen much of them. The "no love for sci" theme carries on...
In terms of the title, without entering the "best sci ship" discussion, (T5U) Vesta is still one of THE ships in the game.
My 2 cents, at least...