It's a matter of investment. Generally speaking the loudest critics are the ones that have invested silly amounts of time and/or money.
Sometimes it's nothing but pure self entitlement, as in "I've spent lots of money so you should do what I say" kind of thing. Such threads are rare, and tend to get shot down as soon as they rear their heads.
Most of the time it's just someone who doesn't like a feature, or a promotion, or a change that undoes all their previous work and/or spent currency. I personally don't think it is justified most of the time since most of them will carry on spending their time or money using these changes anyway. And why? Because they have invested too much to leave.
Makes no sense to me, but it's the only reason I've managed to come across any time I remind anyone that it's all optional - if you don't like it you don't have to use it etc.
This, a thousand times over.
Logically, STO is not important and not worth complaining over. Supermarket chains driving farmers out of business, utility companies gouging people for essential services... these are reasonable topics for rage and emotional effort. It doesn't matter how dodgy Cryptic's practices are, they are working in an utterly ephemeral area and their potential for harm (other than to their own employees) is pretty well zero.
I suspect it's a form of denial. They complain about the game because they think it's important. They think it's important because they need to justify (to themselves) the time and money spent on the game, rather than considering what they could have done productively with those resources.
yes there were bugs but honestly to me I could put up with it, didn't bother me that much.
But you fail to understand that it does bother some people hence why the complain. Because it doesn't bother you, should that mean others shouldn't complain?
The grind gets to me sometimes, especially when you really what that ship and it takes so long to get it
Any lover of MMo's know's what grind is about.
Not sure if you ever played Evercrack, but back then they had hell levels that were a constant grind and level 59, well if it wasn't for KAI, I would have gone nuts. The difference is with EQ and Wow, was that it never felt like a grind to level as you had tons to do, different zones to visit, different mobs to fight not to mention dangers everywhere from wandering mobs (sand giant in Oasis of Mar)
Here, it's just paywall grind with very little reward. That is another thing as to why people complain.
Not everyone wants everything handed to them on a plate which is the CDFers basic response to anyone who complains about the grind. People don't mind grind as long as it's fun and reward. STO has neither.
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
Logically, STO is not important and not worth complaining over. Supermarket chains driving farmers out of business, utility companies gouging people for essential services... these are reasonable topics for rage and emotional effort. It doesn't matter how dodgy Cryptic's practices are, they are working in an utterly ephemeral area and their potential for harm (other than to their own employees) is pretty well zero.
I suspect it's a form of denial. They complain about the game because they think it's important. They think it's important because they need to justify (to themselves) the time and money spent on the game, rather than considering what they could have done productively with those resources.
Hmmm. Why am I still here...?
Another one with a £10 degree in Psychology.
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
Players complain becouse they care.
For whatever reason they may have and from what cathegory they may be. Its the only Star Trek "thing" out there, so if its gone, there isnt anything to go to. Sadly, this is the basic the devs exploit atm, pushing the game in the direction its going now and TRIBBLE up the majority of its players
Players complain becouse they care.
For whatever reason they may have and from what cathegory they may be. Its the only Star Trek "thing" out there, so if its gone, there isnt anything to go to. Sadly, this is the basic the devs exploit atm, pushing the game in the direction its going now and TRIBBLE up the majority of its players
Agree.
Too many people dismiss peoples claims and lump them all in the same bracket as whiners.
TBH, I think it's CDfers and the white knights that have an issue and don't want to read anything negative about their precious game. These are the fanatics about Star Trek.
Being a fan is one thing, being a fanatic, well we all know what types they tend to be.;)
Oh and mine was a £5 psychology lesson, so I know what I'm talking about...:P
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
OP, as a general rule, MMO forums, especially the General Discussions one, will be filled with naysayers. Not that they don't have valid points much of the time, but you sorta have to take it with a grain of salt. If their scale of negativity is jacked up to 11 ... it's probable that the reality is closer to a 5.
DR *did* introduce a lot of elements that made it easier or more tempting to spend money. Not gonna lie there. But at the same time, they also did a good job of coming up with a solution to keep existing ships and materials competitive at the new high end. Most other MMOs would have just raised the level cap, put out new equipment, and made the previous stuf, no matter how much grinding was involved to get it, completely useless.
Are there bugs? Or, for sure. Quite a few. But STO still remains one of the very best MMOs out there right now due to the sheer variety of things to do. I've played quite a few, and this one remains in my top three.
So here's the lesson to learn: Don't pay attention to the negativity if it gets you down. Come here for build advice, or to learn how things are done (this game has a steep learning curve, so the forums do help for that). Don't be afraid to ask questions. Most of the player base is quite friendly and will be happy to give you a hand.
Oh ... and don't complain about the complainers. I learned that one the hard way
The complaints REALLY aren't a problem, game wise. The blind defending of every single decision that Cryptic make - that's a problem. When Cryptic makes a bad decision and then stands by it, claiming they've listened to player feedback, that's the feedback they mean.
Logically, STO is not important and not worth complaining over. Supermarket chains driving farmers out of business, utility companies gouging people for essential services... these are reasonable topics for rage and emotional effort. It doesn't matter how dodgy Cryptic's practices are, they are working in an utterly ephemeral area and their potential for harm (other than to their own employees) is pretty well zero.
I suspect it's a form of denial. They complain about the game because they think it's important. They think it's important because they need to justify (to themselves) the time and money spent on the game, rather than considering what they could have done productively with those resources.
Hmmm. Why am I still here...?
Wait, why are you here wasting time complaining about people complaining about unimportant things! THERE ARE THINGS WRONG IN THE WORLD THAT YOU HAVE NO HOPE OF FIXING! GO YELL ABOUT THEM FROM THE ROOFTOPS!
Oh, you actually wanted to live a happy and productive life? How selfish of you!
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
But STO still remains one of the very best MMOs out there right now due to the sheer variety of things to do.
Gecko? That you there?
This has to be one of the funniest things I've read in ages.
Funny how in the gaming world, STO and more specific Cryptic are laughed at and treated with the derision they both deserve.
Its a pity because to me, Star Trek deserves a better developer and a company that actually cares about it's product.
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
It's strange, every second post I come across, it's someone complaining about this game.
What gives?
It could be that you are fairly new to STO (as per your sig and number of posts you made). Nothing wrong but just saying your perspective is much different from those who have been here for years before you joined.
This game has gone through alot...the great, the good, the bad, the ugly and the fugly. We seem to be on the last one if you consider the history of STO since 2010 . However, just my opinion and for some of us who have seen these stages it's sad to let it go as many have already done so.
Cryptic relies on players like you (fresh blood) to offset the balance of those who whine or just get fed up/leave this MMO. Their business plan is to marginalize playerbase including vets in lieu of better metrics to present to PWE and make a buck. They don't care about loyalty or those players who put gazliions of money into STO...they want the cycle moving and NEW fresh players to bring in revenues.
Your perspective is blissfully refreshing but being naive is what Cryptic counts on the next generation of playerbase. Ignorance is blissfully rewarding to some degree.
OP, as a general rule, MMO forums, especially the General Discussions one, will be filled with naysayers. Not that they don't have valid points much of the time, but you sorta have to take it with a grain of salt. If their scale of negativity is jacked up to 11 ... it's probable that the reality is closer to a 5.
DR *did* introduce a lot of elements that made it easier or more tempting to spend money. Not gonna lie there. But at the same time, they also did a good job of coming up with a solution to keep existing ships and materials competitive at the new high end. Most other MMOs would have just raised the level cap, put out new equipment, and made the previous stuf, no matter how much grinding was involved to get it, completely useless.
Are there bugs? Or, for sure. Quite a few. But STO still remains one of the very best MMOs out there right now due to the sheer variety of things to do. I've played quite a few, and this one remains in my top three.
So here's the lesson to learn: Don't pay attention to the negativity if it gets you down. Come here for build advice, or to learn how things are done (this game has a steep learning curve, so the forums do help for that). Don't be afraid to ask questions. Most of the player base is quite friendly and will be happy to give you a hand.
Oh ... and don't complain about the complainers. I learned that one the hard way
Yeah, I've played quite a few online games, and most of them weren't anywhere near as fun to play long term as STO.
As for the complainers? Well, I believe Alfred Pennyworth said it best: "Some men just want to watch the world burn."
Whales do what they are told and buy everything no matter how broken it is - and that's what happened to the game.
*Someone* kept spending - no matter what -
The opposite of a whale would actually be a small fish, because that is the analogy "bigger fish to fry"?
But whales do act like mindless sheep...
Here taken quite litterly, people who are f2p and might quit and won't spend a whole lot of money is too small to care about.
Whereas the top small per centage of whales who either never quits or spends hilarious insane amounts of money, or both, is what they buld the game around...
That also means the majority of people, including the developers, agree that the quality of the game itself is quite poor - to the extend that the developers left their own forum.
In the end what carries the game is star trek fanatics just like OP says, "I have nothing else to do"...
Have to have it, no matter what, have nothing to negotiate with and surrender at the gates, that's how we end up where we are.
I've been at peace with the game's failure since DR. Ignoring how much DR ruined in itself, DR was supposed to end the content drought.
What it did do was kill the queues, added millions upon millions of dil cost - per character, for copy-paste text "upgrades" to ships making it exactly what people had been flaming for half a decade - "escorts online" or "dps fixated" in the complete and utter destruction of maps that were already reason - not for no reason but to have the whales spend their pension 20 times over on blank text with no animations and no new models.
So, it didn't just fail to not add to the game, but it took away the last things that could have been said to be working.
The history of the game is how it took 2-3 years to ruin everything in the whole game by nerfing.
Some stuff - people were using and liked, was straight up just deleted like exploration AGAINST community wishes saying it would "require less hard drive space for the install file"..
I mean, you could write a saga with 70 volumes of all the terrible stuff that has happened and how pointless it all was.
The tragedy of that being the time they wasted where they could have improved or added to the game.
Developers will also tell you, when they took over, the game was a train wreck.
Essentially they are just proud it's still up and running...
This may have been covered already, but I thought I would answer you anyway.
For me, I complain because the game has SO MUCH potential that is being wasted. This is a STAR TREK game. Star Trek is not like most other intellectual properties (IP), it's a cultural phenomenon. It MEANS something to a lot of people, and has for HALF A CENTURY.
We have all lived with a fantasy, of walking onto the bridge of the Starship Enterprise, of sitting in that command chair, of boldly going where no man has gone before. Star Trek Online had (and still has) the chance to make that fantasy become a reality. They have the chance to let us all "live" in the world we have been watching and imagining being part of for our whole lives... and they're squandering that chance.
They're squandering the chance to create something truly wonderful, something they can be proud of... so they can create new and better systems to separate us from our cash.
Now, I realize they have a business to run, that they need to pay their bills. I have no problem with that, and no problem with them doing what they need to in order to accommodate that need. However, it IS possible to do that while making a QUALITY product. They're NOT doing that. They're doing the absolute minimum (or have done in the past, things have improved somewhat in recent months), and charging the absolute maximum.
They just went with a fine-toothed comb through all the Voyager episodes and even an old TNG episode to craft the Delta Rising story line, and got several actors on board for voice over work.
You use the word "absolute minimum" without knowing what it means. And I suspect you don't know what "charging the absolute maximum" means, either.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
while the game has some very fun content , i think alot of players that do put time and money into the game dont really like the direction of the game , especially when it changes a game play experience so dramatically.
with bugs , lag , and the DPS creep ,that cryptic refuses to address correctly , when your pushed to play certain content a certain way rather than being diverse it makes players disenchanted with the product . with mistakes made in statements to the players and other things I can understand certain players points of view . the trick is trying to stay constructive while stating concerns with the game .
there are times i feel that the game i play is different than what the devs play because we dont see it the same .
You are happy now, but I promise you, at some point, Cryptic is going to come along and do something that will make it feel like they crapped in your breakfast cereal and then tell you it's what you really want and you'll enjoy it.
This... is... the... best... post... EVER...
Allmost felt out from my chair
And allmost makes me want to use it as siiggy, but there are some very nice ppl at Cryptic that dont deserve it.
Yeah, I've played quite a few online games, and most of them weren't anywhere near as fun to play long term as STO.
As for the complainers? Well, I believe Alfred Pennyworth said it best: "Some men just want to watch the world burn."
The game is a lot of fun as it is.
Wave those pom poms high and high.
Rar rar rar , were going to smash the oinks...
You really must be close to be coming the defacto leader of the CDF.
I know the list is getting smaller and smaller as more and more of the CDF leave and join the darkside, but I'm sure that the small circle you move in would fully endorse your application. Just show them your copious amounts of blinkered, fanatical, one sided, white knight posts and I'm sure they will all say that you are the one...
Forget about Mayweather vs Pacquiao, I want to see Jonsils vs Markhawkman for the undisputed king of the CDFers;)
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
It's strange, every second post I come across, it's someone complaining about this game.
What gives?
I'm quite thankful for this game given the utter lack anything else on TV that's sci fi related let alone star trek. I've quite enjoyed the whole story line and the continued story building up to the final show down between the Iconians and the rest of the galaxy.
I would've been quite disappointed had they actualy finish the story and published it in one go. This give me something to look forward to.
People also seem to complain about the company being money grabbing TRIBBLE. The fact is, they do have overhead cost to cover. The cost of having so many servers, the cost of electricity, cost of staff for maintenance, cost of development. There's a cost for everything and the game and yet it's free to play. If everything was dirt cheap or free, any player would have no trouble getting the best gear and ship there is. There would be little to no challenge. If there's no challenge, then what's the point of staying to be play the game? Having a currency and making it difficult to get just makes it more rewarding when you finally manage to get that ship you always wanted. If you don't want to wait, then pay them some money for the stuff you want, simple as that.
It is really quite simple. All of the complaints about the game that you're seeing are the direct result of the Modern Gamer being an overly entitled, spoiled and whiny brat.
God forbid that a paying customer dares to expect the service they've paid for!
How dare they!
Entitled, spoiled brats the lot of you!
And there is another one. If you really think you can do better, go start your own game company, create a game yourself and watch as your overly entitled fellows turn on you in a heartbeat calling you a "money grabbing TRIBBLE" and cursing the day you ever wrote a single letter of code.
And there is another one. If you really think you can do better, go start your own game company, create a game yourself and watch as your overly entitled fellows turn on you in a heartbeat calling you a "money grabbing TRIBBLE" and cursing the day you ever wrote a single letter of code.
I'll say it again for you. Customers are ENTITLED to expect a certain level of service.
Comments
This, a thousand times over.
Logically, STO is not important and not worth complaining over. Supermarket chains driving farmers out of business, utility companies gouging people for essential services... these are reasonable topics for rage and emotional effort. It doesn't matter how dodgy Cryptic's practices are, they are working in an utterly ephemeral area and their potential for harm (other than to their own employees) is pretty well zero.
I suspect it's a form of denial. They complain about the game because they think it's important. They think it's important because they need to justify (to themselves) the time and money spent on the game, rather than considering what they could have done productively with those resources.
Hmmm. Why am I still here...?
But you fail to understand that it does bother some people hence why the complain. Because it doesn't bother you, should that mean others shouldn't complain?
Any lover of MMo's know's what grind is about.
Not sure if you ever played Evercrack, but back then they had hell levels that were a constant grind and level 59, well if it wasn't for KAI, I would have gone nuts. The difference is with EQ and Wow, was that it never felt like a grind to level as you had tons to do, different zones to visit, different mobs to fight not to mention dangers everywhere from wandering mobs (sand giant in Oasis of Mar)
Here, it's just paywall grind with very little reward. That is another thing as to why people complain.
Not everyone wants everything handed to them on a plate which is the CDFers basic response to anyone who complains about the grind. People don't mind grind as long as it's fun and reward. STO has neither.
Another one with a £10 degree in Psychology.
For whatever reason they may have and from what cathegory they may be. Its the only Star Trek "thing" out there, so if its gone, there isnt anything to go to. Sadly, this is the basic the devs exploit atm, pushing the game in the direction its going now and TRIBBLE up the majority of its players
Agree.
Too many people dismiss peoples claims and lump them all in the same bracket as whiners.
TBH, I think it's CDfers and the white knights that have an issue and don't want to read anything negative about their precious game. These are the fanatics about Star Trek.
Being a fan is one thing, being a fanatic, well we all know what types they tend to be.;)
Oh and mine was a £5 psychology lesson, so I know what I'm talking about...:P
DR *did* introduce a lot of elements that made it easier or more tempting to spend money. Not gonna lie there. But at the same time, they also did a good job of coming up with a solution to keep existing ships and materials competitive at the new high end. Most other MMOs would have just raised the level cap, put out new equipment, and made the previous stuf, no matter how much grinding was involved to get it, completely useless.
Are there bugs? Or, for sure. Quite a few. But STO still remains one of the very best MMOs out there right now due to the sheer variety of things to do. I've played quite a few, and this one remains in my top three.
So here's the lesson to learn: Don't pay attention to the negativity if it gets you down. Come here for build advice, or to learn how things are done (this game has a steep learning curve, so the forums do help for that). Don't be afraid to ask questions. Most of the player base is quite friendly and will be happy to give you a hand.
Oh ... and don't complain about the complainers. I learned that one the hard way
Free Tibet!
Wait, why are you here wasting time complaining about people complaining about unimportant things! THERE ARE THINGS WRONG IN THE WORLD THAT YOU HAVE NO HOPE OF FIXING! GO YELL ABOUT THEM FROM THE ROOFTOPS!
Oh, you actually wanted to live a happy and productive life? How selfish of you!
best.
post.
EVER.
Gecko? That you there?
This has to be one of the funniest things I've read in ages.
Funny how in the gaming world, STO and more specific Cryptic are laughed at and treated with the derision they both deserve.
Its a pity because to me, Star Trek deserves a better developer and a company that actually cares about it's product.
It could be that you are fairly new to STO (as per your sig and number of posts you made). Nothing wrong but just saying your perspective is much different from those who have been here for years before you joined.
This game has gone through alot...the great, the good, the bad, the ugly and the fugly. We seem to be on the last one if you consider the history of STO since 2010
Cryptic relies on players like you (fresh blood) to offset the balance of those who whine or just get fed up/leave this MMO. Their business plan is to marginalize playerbase including vets in lieu of better metrics to present to PWE and make a buck. They don't care about loyalty or those players who put gazliions of money into STO...they want the cycle moving and NEW fresh players to bring in revenues.
Your perspective is blissfully refreshing but being naive is what Cryptic counts on the next generation of playerbase. Ignorance is blissfully rewarding to some degree.
As for the complainers? Well, I believe Alfred Pennyworth said it best: "Some men just want to watch the world burn."
The game is a lot of fun as it is.
My character Tsin'xing
But whales are sheep, that isn't 2 categories.
Whales do what they are told and buy everything no matter how broken it is - and that's what happened to the game.
*Someone* kept spending - no matter what -
The opposite of a whale would actually be a small fish, because that is the analogy "bigger fish to fry"?
But whales do act like mindless sheep...
Here taken quite litterly, people who are f2p and might quit and won't spend a whole lot of money is too small to care about.
Whereas the top small per centage of whales who either never quits or spends hilarious insane amounts of money, or both, is what they buld the game around...
That also means the majority of people, including the developers, agree that the quality of the game itself is quite poor - to the extend that the developers left their own forum.
In the end what carries the game is star trek fanatics just like OP says, "I have nothing else to do"...
Have to have it, no matter what, have nothing to negotiate with and surrender at the gates, that's how we end up where we are.
I've been at peace with the game's failure since DR. Ignoring how much DR ruined in itself, DR was supposed to end the content drought.
What it did do was kill the queues, added millions upon millions of dil cost - per character, for copy-paste text "upgrades" to ships making it exactly what people had been flaming for half a decade - "escorts online" or "dps fixated" in the complete and utter destruction of maps that were already reason - not for no reason but to have the whales spend their pension 20 times over on blank text with no animations and no new models.
So, it didn't just fail to not add to the game, but it took away the last things that could have been said to be working.
The history of the game is how it took 2-3 years to ruin everything in the whole game by nerfing.
Some stuff - people were using and liked, was straight up just deleted like exploration AGAINST community wishes saying it would "require less hard drive space for the install file"..
I mean, you could write a saga with 70 volumes of all the terrible stuff that has happened and how pointless it all was.
The tragedy of that being the time they wasted where they could have improved or added to the game.
Developers will also tell you, when they took over, the game was a train wreck.
Essentially they are just proud it's still up and running...
The game itself is actually a "failboat"
You use the word "absolute minimum" without knowing what it means. And I suspect you don't know what "charging the absolute maximum" means, either.
with bugs , lag , and the DPS creep ,that cryptic refuses to address correctly , when your pushed to play certain content a certain way rather than being diverse it makes players disenchanted with the product . with mistakes made in statements to the players and other things I can understand certain players points of view . the trick is trying to stay constructive while stating concerns with the game .
there are times i feel that the game i play is different than what the devs play because we dont see it the same .
This... is... the... best... post... EVER...
Allmost felt out from my chair
And allmost makes me want to use it as siiggy, but there are some very nice ppl at Cryptic that dont deserve it.
Only a weak and stupid person would post this.;)
Wave those pom poms high and high.
Rar rar rar , were going to smash the oinks...
You really must be close to be coming the defacto leader of the CDF.
I know the list is getting smaller and smaller as more and more of the CDF leave and join the darkside, but I'm sure that the small circle you move in would fully endorse your application. Just show them your copious amounts of blinkered, fanatical, one sided, white knight posts and I'm sure they will all say that you are the one...
Forget about Mayweather vs Pacquiao, I want to see Jonsils vs Markhawkman for the undisputed king of the CDFers;)
It is really quite simple. All of the complaints about the game that you're seeing are the direct result of the Modern Gamer being an overly entitled, spoiled and whiny brat.
How dare they!
Entitled, spoiled brats the lot of you!
Free Tibet!
And there is another one. If you really think you can do better, go start your own game company, create a game yourself and watch as your overly entitled fellows turn on you in a heartbeat calling you a "money grabbing TRIBBLE" and cursing the day you ever wrote a single letter of code.
which replaced the phrase made especially popular with the Windows 8 debacle: "Things change, you just don't like change".
I'll say it again for you. Customers are ENTITLED to expect a certain level of service.
Free Tibet!