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Hoping a Dev sees this... Support and trolling. Change needed
risian4
Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
The same troll that has been making it impossible for people to pug IGN (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1385271) for weeks now, does not seem to have any intention to stop doing what he's doing. Talking to him won't work, he'll just reply with obscene remarks.
Anyway, one of your missions is almost unplayable and has been for several weeks now. Looks like there are two options:
1) Make sure Support is doing their jobs, and actually investigate and act upon reports, instead of sending an automatic reply saying they'll investigate it and not doing anything after sending this e-mail. Right now, your support division is nothing but a bad joke, so it seems.
It's really sad that normal players who want to enjoy your game find themselves unable to do so because trolls and grievers can keep trolling without someone interfering.
2) Change your missions so that one person can't lock out an entire team. And while I'm at it: making it possible to block invites of all kinds from one person would be an huge improvement.
Anyway, one of your missions is almost unplayable and has been for several weeks now. Looks like there are two options:
1) Make sure Support is doing their jobs, and actually investigate and act upon reports, instead of sending an automatic reply saying they'll investigate it and not doing anything after sending this e-mail. Right now, your support division is nothing but a bad joke, so it seems.
It's really sad that normal players who want to enjoy your game find themselves unable to do so because trolls and grievers can keep trolling without someone interfering.
2) Change your missions so that one person can't lock out an entire team. And while I'm at it: making it possible to block invites of all kinds from one person would be an huge improvement.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Put another forcefield in front of the room the room with Ogen (before anyone enters) and in front of the final room. If you place the same forcefield like the one that can only be removed when three people use the consoles at the same time, it will prevent one person from locking all others out.
Since the mechanic is already in the mission, it should be possible to do this.
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The point he was making was that if the system does first come first serve, if the troll has enough ppl on his ignore list, it will consider all those players as invalid teammates. Therefore, a queue will only fire off if there are 4 other ppl that aren't on his ignore list that queue up.
And I think you misunderstand something too. The trolls never intended to play the mission in the first place, so not being able to PUG is a nonissue. Their goal is to prevent OTHERS from playing the queue which they would effectively do if things were first come first serve and their ignore list is huge.
It also depends on whether the person w/ the ignore list entry is the one that's booted or the one that is listed in the ignore list.
In STO, no Dev can hear players scream.
C'mon Devs, this cant be so hard to do.
The same could be done for the forum. Something that reads the logic level of someone and gives, or denies the access to the forum and post functions.
Great! Then can you please enlighten me about this because I don't see how the ignore system can't be trolled?
Only if they go "neener! neener!" Otherwise they just suck.
Since this thread specifically references IG normal, I would assume players only capable of doing 2K DPS would be able to complete the STF.
Assuming they are not simply AFK or are intentionally trying to keep players from completing the mission.
I likes your point sir!
So let's say it is a first come first serve queue as it is currently, and the troll enters the queue with some team in the processes of being filled up. Someone on that team also has said troll on their ignore list. This is the situation you are describing correct?
In this case, both are mutually ignoring each other. Which would you boot? Logical choice would be to boot the last person to enter in the team in which case the troll would be booted. Great! Now, let's consider the opposite. What if the troll were to enter the team before the normal player? The normal player would be booted. Oh no... So it's not all roses, but that's not the end of it.
So now we have to talk about the likelihood of these events occurring. The likelihood of a troll being first which is the problematic scenario is partly determined by the proportion of trolls entering queues over time. The second factor comes from the fact that if a troll gets booted from the current team, they will be the first to enter the next one. Now, this already assumes one team got through which is great. However, this fact shows that the system has the characteristic that it retains trolls in the queue at steady state. This means as time goes on, the concentration of trolls in the queue gets higher and higher. The fact that one team got through before the troll becomes the first in the next team is only really relevant at initialization of the system. All other teams after that have him at the head of the next team. Therefore, the only way a system would fire off is if he missed 4 normal players in his ignore list. However, your problem statement is that ignore lists are big, so it would grind the queue firing to a very slow pace.
The relief valve for this is the timeout period after one minute after which the troll needs to requeue. So one solution might be to shorten the timeout period, but this affects normal behavior. People have less time in their position in the queue before having to go back to the end of the line, so you don't want to make it too short or else it seems unfair/inconvenient. You can attempt to play with this parameter given the rate of trolls entering the queues, but such a thing is hard to measure.
So while the idea itself seems straightforward and effective, actually creating a system out of it isn't so easy.
Edit: some little typos that annoyed me. :P
Now there's the aspect of the troll wants to see you suffer. Ok, sure. Perhaps being there in person with you in the mission gives him more satisfaction, but I think he'd also take some satisfaction from people whining in chat that queues aren't firing as he giggles in the corner. :rolleyes:
See, that's why I was talking about proportion of trolls entering queues and the fact that such a system tends to retain trolls in the queue. Therefore, the % of time that a team has a troll be the starter of the team is a function of proportion of trolls vs. total PUGing population per unit time and the timeout time. This actually becomes worse when trolls actually put each other on the ignore list as the system would now have one troll in the current team and the next team would now have the troll that tried to enter. Yikes...
Some queues will have it worse though, I agree, since there would be TWO ways to troll in those(trolling in depth? :eek: ), but my main point is that adding this system actually gives them an additional system with which to troll if not done properly and we all know the success rate for MMOs implementing a good idea correctly.
As I stated previously, given that trolling requires that no one completes the mission including the troll, I don't think they really care about this. They just want other people to not be able to complete the mission. If they can achieve this by not even entering the mission in the first place(read "less effort"), then I think it would be an appealing route for them.
Sure, and I agree with you. The problem is that trolls also tend to queue up more than an average player since that's what they do. The actual # of trolls doesn't matter. It's the total rate at which they are queuing up. Maybe that's still really tiny. I don't have the data, so I can't say for certain. However, I argue that if that really is indeed the case then you wouldn't even need to handle it. Implementing this system solves a problem that barely exists.
Yes, there's nothing we can do about a troll who intentionally sets out to obstruct. That feeds into what I was saying. They want to troll, so they will find a way to do it. Implementing this system gives them an additional tool to do so.
I agree with you here as well, but I was simply reasoning through the system to show that this system does so but has some unintended side effects that need to be managed. In this case, we're not talking milliseconds since this is first come first serve. Now if it wasn't first come first serve, you could probably get only milliseconds of penalty for the system, but then you'd lose the "fairness" of first come first serve.
No, it doesn't, but it's not milliseconds before the queue gives up. It's the timeout timer which is 60sec iirc. A player is only kicked out once the timer runs out right? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
Well, I was describing a way trolls, using an ignore list system, could possibly significantly slow down a queue which results in the same end state for a normal player - no mission completion.
Yes, I completely agree. This is what I was attempting(maybe didn't succeed) to point out in the post previous to the one you replied to. "Decent dev team" would be required to do it. I'm not saying it wouldn't work in the ideal case. I'm saying...we're working w/ far from the ideal case. :P
Well, if it's first come first serve, given the troll is at the front of the list, they would always have preference in any comparison for potential matches. If his list is big enough, every check would return no suitable team until he gets booted out of the queue. That's why I was thinking that with a non-first come first serve system, it might be better, but you'd lose the first come first serve characteristic. Maybe that's the better answer. Just TRIBBLE first come first serve and have the server have no preference based upon queue position and just try to match a suitable team. I personally would probably not mind that, but I guess I'd feel a bit odd when I queued up first and someone else got a team before me.
Yeah, I haven't run into this either, but it's something to consider. Man, I hate trolls sometimes. They're like cockroaches. No matter what you do, they come back somehow.