Why I believe we NEED T6 upgrades for Defiant,Oddy,galaxy etc.

simbuck · February 2015

Hello to all here,

I did not see A tread like this in the first 14 pages I scrolled so I hope I do not open one that already exists...

In short I LOVED all of the Startrek series and (Odyssey class excluded) do not much care for the "newly"designed Startrek ships Cryptic gave us.

they tend to venture away from what Matt Jeffrey gave as guidelines for a Starfleet vessel
and IMO are ugly beyond repair.
The original ships have a certain beauty to them, simplistic, clean, impressive and well designed for the day they were designed in while the cryptic ones have to much going on and are generally over-designed and have nothing to do with Starfleet.

I do not mind them but for old hardcore Trekkies like me, giving up my Defiant, Galaxy or Intrepid for a ship that looks like the ones designed to be launched 100 years after the Abrahams-Teens-in-Space-with-lensflare-movies is to much to ask.
they are ugly and have nothing to do with Startrek, I would love them to go back to redesigns like the Exeter (lovely ship-design!) and the Sao Paulo design.

I LOVE that we can disguise the Pathfinder to look like an Intrepid, so do that to the others PLEASE!

Or else I have this idea:

Intelligence Them!!

I would suggest Hangar bays on the Galaxy and Oddy,

making them TRUE command ships, maybe add a unique console to "command a fleet" and summon 2 star ships (max tier 4) or assign temporary command to one or two bridge officers?
and make them available in PvE battles only?
maybe even over already owned ships so they see battle once more to ;-)

The Defiant would need the non-slot BATTLE-cloak (remember, it is on loan from the Romies!!)so it can now cloak in battle

they all could be equipped with an Intelligence console and maybe a +in speed and agility

oh, and while I am complaining, I would love a "limited hangarbay" for the smaller ships.
they all have a shuttlebay, even the Defiant, so why can't they have one or two shuttles to shoot small ships or torpedo's?

staq16 · February 2015

I think a lot will depend on how sales of the Pathfinder have gone. Looking in-game there are still a lot, even a majority, of T5U ships out there; and they're fine for most things outside of PVP and high-end DPS. Now, a Sci ship is a niche choice at the best of times, so it's perhaps not the best metric, but there you go.

Given that, you have to wonder how many players would pay 3000Z to replace their canon T5U vessel with a "slightly improved" ship (read - +1 Boff slot and Intel / Cmd abilities, likely only at Lt). For all that these forums disparage T5U as obsolete, they're still plenty good enough for 90% of player activities.

lordsteve1 · February 2015

The T5-U ships are perfectly fine at the moment, I still enjoy taking my Vesta or Regent out for a spin some times.

But as the game progresses they are obviously going to struggle more and more as each new season adds tougher content (regardless of what you think if Cryptic's approach to difficulty, things are getting harder to kill/survive).
Therefore the only options that the devs have for adding ships that can compete at the end game are to re-hash old ships into T6 versions, or add in new non-cannon designs.

Now some non-cannons designs are fine, I love the Pathfinder for example. But add in too many kitbash or made up ships and soon people loose interest as it's no longer a Trek game. They have to be real careful about balancing out the use of the Trek universe with adding new shiny toys for everyone.

That's why I'm fairly certain we'll revisit a lot of ships in due course, it would be really risky to ignore that a huge number of people playing STO do so to fly the iconic ships.

tucana66 · February 2015

simbuck wrote: »

(...)
Intelligence Them!!

Hybrid them.

umaeko · February 2015

T6 Defiant? Pfft.

The Aquarius. Is. The. Future.

warmaker001b · February 2015

Canon T6 ships will come, sooner or later. There's too much money sitting there. The T6 Defiant already exists. It's the Phantom. It is everything that Defiant users have wanted and fixed every issue that has ever arisen about the T5 version. The only thing it needs is the capability of using Defiant/Defiant-variant skins. The basic look of the Phantom is derivative of the Defiant-class.

reginamala78 · February 2015

Be careful what you wish for, or they'll try and gouge us for $60 ship sets rather than $10 for a Fleet Module + 5U Token.

warmaker001b · February 2015

reginamala78 wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for, or they'll try and gouge us for $60 ship sets rather than $10 for a Fleet Module + 5U Token.

The precedent of what will come has already occured: T6 Voyager/Pathfinder. That's exactly what's going to happen and any notion that there will be a module to upgrade a T5 ship to T6 is a fruitless vigil. Look at the history of Cryptic introducing ships, as you move up the tiers throughout the history of STO, and you'll realize that you were never, ever allowed to "upgrade" an old ship to a new tier. Each move up, was an entirely new purchase if you wanted something other than the freebie promotion ship, up until Lv40.

I know people won't like that answer but it's a realist's reply and anyone that has been around this game long enough should know that.

They could have done a T6U token when DR hit, but they didn't. Instead, they simply did a T5U token. Veteran and cynical players should have known why already.

architect13 · February 2015

reginamala78 wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for, or they'll try and gouge us for $60 ship sets rather than $10 for a Fleet Module + 5U Token.

No, no . . . They would never do that!

staq16 · February 2015

lordsteve1 wrote: »

The T5-U ships are perfectly fine at the moment, I still enjoy taking my Vesta or Regent out for a spin some times.

But as the game progresses they are obviously going to struggle more and more as each new season adds tougher content (regardless of what you think if Cryptic's approach to difficulty, things are getting harder to kill/survive).

I wouldn't have said that was axiomatic. There were plenty of people running "basic" T5 ships (and especially Mirror ships) with Mk XI blue gear pre-DR for fun or cost reasons, and still doing OK. I was doing it myself in August 2014 with a new alt.

In absolute terms, the gap between T5U and T6 ships is not that bad, especially when you consider the non-specialist ships (those that only have a Lt intel slot). Take the Pathfinder - yes it's T6 but has an extra Lt ability rather than the extra Lt Cdr of most, and only Lt intel abilities - so no surgical strikes or higher-tier powers. Same with the new Command cruisers; yes they have 11 consoles (same as T5U Fleet) but only an extra Lt ability. And I wonder how many players will spend / grind to max gear on either tier.

Essentially, I think we'd need to see another tier beyond the existing T6 fleet / lockbox level ships for T5U to become truly obsolete.

szerontzur · February 2015

T6 Defiant -> Phantom
T6 Galaxy -> Guardian
T6 Odyssey -> Command Cruisers(they're already at 'fleet level')

architect13 · February 2015

szerontzur wrote: »

T6 Defiant -> Phantom
T6 Galaxy -> Guardian
T6 Odyssey -> Command Cruisers(they're already at 'fleet level')

Already at fleet level . . . Good to see that I can get these ships with Zen/dilithum and not the pesky 100's of millions of ec that I have. I would like top see the plans for T6 fleet ships. I have a feeling that many will just be offered in the C store just so they bypass being offered in the fleet.

papesh1 · February 2015

Watch the first half of the Command Crusier Live Preview from Captain Smirk. He lets us know they have plenty of T6 ships in the works. I asked about a T6 Ody in the live chat. He pretty much said yes without actually saying it.

papesh1 · February 2015

papesh1 wrote: »

Watch the first half of the Command Crusier Live Preview from Captain Smirk. He lets us know they have plenty of T6 ships in the works. I asked about a T6 Ody in the live chat. He pretty much said yes without actually saying it.

I did mention that the class of the flagship should not be outperformed by the command crusiers. I do see their purpose...the enterprise and her sister ships can't be everywhere.
I mentioned that an Ody Refit would be nice.

Visually, I would really like the neck to go back to a more original look. I think the dual neck is ugly. A shuttlebay to replace the Aquarius on the non Tactical variants would be nice too.

simbuck · February 2015

warmaker001b wrote: »

The T6 Defiant already exists. It's the Phantom. It is everything that Defiant users have wanted and fixed every issue that has ever arisen about the T5 version. The only thing it needs is the capability of using Defiant/Defiant-variant skins. The basic look of the Phantom is derivative of the Defiant-class.

szerontzur wrote: »

T6 Defiant -> Phantom
T6 Galaxy -> Guardian
T6 Odyssey -> Command Cruisers(they're already at 'fleet level')

Well to me they are not the "new" Galaxy, Oddy or Defiant,

Especially the Phantom is one of the most ugly ships they have ever designed, (cryptic ship design after the Odyssey looks like things people design wearing vaseline-coated glasses with a monster-hangover on a computer that can not go above 300 polygon's.
After the Odyssey class things went bad at warp-speed,
to me it does not looks or relates in any way to a Federation ship so that is why I would not fly one even if they gave it to me for free.
I would not mind spending cash on a good ship, did that a lot of times
But When I play Star Trek online, I want to fly a star trek ship or something that fits in there
Not something my 4 year old nephew draws.

the Skin to make it look like the Defiant/Sao Paulo/Vigilant is missing, therefore it is no way near a Defiant to me.
Same goes for all the other (federation) ships.

I love the original ships and the Oddy or Exeter were a perfect fit to it, I do not see why they went away from that kind of designs.

but enough with this rant, how about ideas on how a T6 ship would be improved if we have the original designs?

I would love to see Nova's Intrepids, Defiants, Sovereign and Galaxy's etc. each with its own specific traits, making them more interesting for players that are looking for something special.
The Defiants inherit battlecloak for instance or a Nova for instance with the ability to loose ships by going trough a planets atmosphere or whatever.

warmaker001b · February 2015

simbuck wrote: »

Well to me they are not the "new" Galaxy, Oddy or Defiant,

Especially the Phantom is one of the most ugly ships they have ever designed, (cryptic ship design after the Odyssey looks like things people design wearing vaseline-coated glasses with a monster-hangover on a computer that can not go above 300 polygon's.
After the Odyssey class things went bad at warp-speed,
to me it does not looks or relates in any way to a Federation ship so that is why I would not fly one even if they gave it to me for free.
I would not mind spending cash on a good ship, did that a lot of times
But When I play Star Trek online, I want to fly a star trek ship or something that fits in there
Not something my 4 year old nephew draws.

the Skin to make it look like the Defiant/Sao Paulo/Vigilant is missing, therefore it is no way near a Defiant to me.
Same goes for all the other (federation) ships.

I love the original ships and the Oddy or Exeter were a perfect fit to it, I do not see why they went away from that kind of designs.

but enough with this rant, how about ideas on how a T6 ship would be improved if we have the original designs?

I would love to see Nova's Intrepids, Defiants, Sovereign and Galaxy's etc. each with its own specific traits, making them more interesting for players that are looking for something special.
The Defiants inherit battlecloak for instance or a Nova for instance with the ability to loose ships by going trough a planets atmosphere or whatever.

Ignore the skins on those ships.

We're talking stats and styles of play. They are very much taking over the style of play the T5 Defiant / Galaxy were and remedies the old issues.

The Phantom remains TAC heavy, changes the TAC Ens to Universal, and gets a LtCdr ENG station. Remains a 5 TAC ship. Retains the same turn rate but has better Inertia than the Defiant. Has built-in cloak. As I've said before, it rectifies EVERY complaint that has been leveled at the Defiant. And the Fleet Phantom isn't out yet.

The Guardian, IMHO, fulfills the wide range of capabilities that the Galaxy-class was capable of from Canon Star Trek shows. Unlike the Galaxy-class in STO. TNG showcased a Galaxy-class' survivability, firepower, and more sciencey / technobabble TRIBBLE than you can throw tribbles at. It has excellent ENG stations while possessing great TAC and SCI capability. It's what the Galaxy-class should have been in STO: A good, all around performer that was hard to crack. There are many threads that have showcased the deficiencies of the Galaxy-class in STO. The Guardian-class pretty much remedied that while still drawing a visual lineage from the earlier class.

Not even the new Command FDCs have the BOFF station capability of the Guardian. They cannot have their Cmdr ENG and at minimum LtCdr TAC *and* LtCdr SCI stations at the same time. Not to mention the Guardian has the full set of Cruiser Commands and the all-important Weapon System Efficiency Cruiser Command for less weapon power drain.

And the Fleet Guardian isn't even out yet.

bazilyat · February 2015

My main problem with the Phantom is this:

It looks like the mating between a tick (the insect parasite, not the superhero) and a Defiant, flying backwards. No matter how good a ship it is, the moment I got the space trait, the Phantom went back in the hangar.

I want my Sao Paulo/Defiant to look like a Sao Paulo or Defiant. I don't care if I have to buy a whole new ship for it, I'll pay that. I want my Defiant to be a Defiant, not some Tron-inspired, stealthy-as-a-TRIBBLE-in-the-bath monstrosity.

huntor · February 2015

szerontzur wrote: »

T6 Defiant -> Phantom
T6 Galaxy -> Guardian
T6 Odyssey -> Command Cruisers(they're already at 'fleet level')

That's the problem for me...

I don't want to fly a wannabe pankake defiant....I want to fly THE Defiant

I don't want to fly a wannabe Failaxy....I want to fly THE glalaxy

And so on. Seriously, they lost many sales because of that.

I didn't understood why they never gave a Defiant skin to the Phantom just like they gave a Intrepid skin to the Pathfinder.

jellico1 · February 2015

I would buy the new command pack

If I could choose the skin I want for the ship..........The new style looking ships ..most are just Blaaaa to me

As long as I can get by in the ship I like the looks of

No more cash from me

jaguarskx · February 2015

While this thread is about Fed ships... I would like T6 KDF and Romulan ships to be added to the game. Specifically a T6 Raider and T6 Science Ship.

My Fed toons already have plenty of choices.

ghyudt · February 2015

I see a few posts mentioning that the guardian and other ships need the skins of the ships they resemble. No. No they don't. For me, when it comes to this game, its not just about the ship. Its about its abilities. Its boff and weapons layout are important to me, because there's a certain way I play. Giving the guardian a galaxy skin isn't going to make me want the guardian any more, because it doesn't have what I want. For me, the Galaxy's current boff setup works perfectly. I don't feel the need for more tactical or less engineering. A better example would be the sovereign. The dilithium version (the free one you get) is better because of its emphasis on engineering. There's far too much tactical going on in the cstore and fleet versions. So just reskinning a ship doesn't actually fix the problem. That's like making a galaxy skin for an avenger. The ship has to feel right. I don't want a sovereign that zips around like the defiant. I want it to be slower, and be able to take more of a beating. But, that's just my view.

horridperson · February 2015

I think I have come to the point that I accept the canon ships from the series have lost their place at the forefront of the game. There are many designs in the catalogue that represent more recent additions to the STO universe. I would like to see more of the ship parts I have purchased or unlocked in the earlier tiers repurposed and scaled to fit newer platforms. They aren't "outdated" if they are 25th century designs and they look better than some of the new parts.

Levels 1 to 50 blur by so quickly there are probably more than a few people who don't bother purchasing the lower tier c store ships. Maybe Cryptic could encourage some sales of these old ships by scaling the modules to different sized ships and checking the connection points to ensure clean joins. Surely adjusting the proportions on some nacelle sets and struts is less labor intensive than starting from scratch all of the time.

jarvisandalfred · February 2015

At T5-U, the Oddy Sci and it's KDF equivalent (the Sci Bort) are simply better ships than most of the T6 ships out there, including some of the Fleet T6 ones. I'm sure it's pretty much common knowledge that the Romulan Flagships (the Scimitars) continue to stomp on their competition at T5-U. The Guardian is, imo the T6 galaxy. And the T5-U defiant... well, I know a guy who does 70k and fires a load of torps from the thing, so it's fine so far as I can tell.

tehbubbaloo · February 2015

im getting ready to start spending some time fed-side, and the only thing that i would be willing to buy is a t6 nx-01 with a properly scaled st:e interior. that would be drop dead sexy.

simbuck · February 2015

horridperson wrote: »

I think I have come to the point that I accept the canon ships from the series have lost their place at the forefront of the game.

Not me! If I wanted to play fictional things that resemble a can stuck in dog-poo I ran over with my car I would have stuck to Eve online, I am here to play Star Trek online so I want Star trek ships, Romulan, Klingon, federation and all other races they have ever had in the series!

horridperson wrote: »

Surely adjusting the proportions on some nacelle sets and struts is less labor intensive than starting from scratch all of the time.

I agree with you on that point.

To me things went bad when they took the Starfleet ship designs off the wall and watched Tron, Starwars, And toystory for inspiration to take it to another level... it sucks!

I want Startrek online, not Tron-wars-legacy online for 30 Dollar..

Give me Startrek ships or skins to cover up what those "designers"puked out!

kerygan · February 2015

I would like the T5u ships to be upgradeable to T6 . T6 Aventine is my dream (best design in game) , but before that we need T6-fleet intel ships , this must be the priority , after that added any other ship or lockbox ship. I bet they work at the iconian ships right now , instead of doing the fleet versions of t6 intel. I allsow HOPE the fleet versions will have a different and better skin .

crimsonlena · February 2015

I think Cryptic really should consider hiring someone from the Series as a consultant on starship designs, overall, I really dont think they get it. Much of the original designs are terrible, and dont really look like something you'd see on the shows. The oddessy I liked, but then again it was designed by a fan, who seems to better understand Star Trek ship design then Cryptic employees.

That being said, i do think Cryptic has come close to what can be considered canon design with the Command ships, though even they have some issues.

All in all, I definitely agree we need T6 Canon ship designs, This is Star Trek Online, not Badly Done Star Trek Fan Fic Online.

danielhunter1991 · February 2015

I agree with you that we do need T6 versions of ships like the Galaxy, Defiant as well as a number of other ships. Hopefully some of these will be coming out in the near future, I mean they've already introduced a T6 Intrepid haven't they so fingers crossed I guess.

kerygan · February 2015

crimsonlena wrote: »

I think Cryptic really should consider hiring a designer .

you mean ...

tehbubbaloo · February 2015

the more i think about it, the more i like the idea of separating the frame from the body and selling them separately. obviously they would want to ensure cruiser bodies were used on cruiser frames and the like, but it sure would be nice to spend 3000z on some sexy new frame and drop my beloved brel body on it.

tgo533 · March 2015

i have 3k zen worth of cash waiting on my T6 Defiant. Its the only ship i fly anymore. I got the substitute... phantom. And without the trait... i would feel totally ripped off. It wont come back out ever unless i can skin it like my defiant. That should have been included by default just like the pathfinder intrepid skin.

I would even buy a 10k zen pack to get this ship... But they do not want my money yet.

Why I believe we NEED T6 upgrades for Defiant,Oddy,galaxy etc.

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