command torp boat

noroblad · February 2015

my wife gave me a bunch of zen for val-day. After thinking on it I went ahead and bought the ROM command package. I started out trying to make the science one into a TBR dragging aft torp boat with warp plasma and whatnot. It was not really doing it for me, but I may revisit that build later.

Started trying random different things with the ships, and finally came up with the following theme...

-- I noticed that the command tree has a bunch of torp debuffs. I had by this time ground out the ship trait on 4 new ships ... (kobali and 3-pack). That have me sitting on 4 points so I ground out a 5th point and loaded up on command torp buffs. These buffs proc off energy weapons so..

-- I put on the old tet glider set.

-- due to officer seating I moved from the science ship to the tac version for this setup.

-- science consoles are all flow caps. Deflector has big flow caps, working on a crafted one but for now using JH.

-- using the new ROM (is it the same for all factions??) command ship console that adds torp and mine damage AND deploys a nasty mine device (it squirts out mines in large numbers a bunch of times at a fixed location, perfect for borg gates, crystals, or known spawn points, GW piles, planet killers, and so on)

With all that in mind, I drop 4 turrets aft. Their job is to remove shields and proc the command buffs. I slot 4 torps forward, currently a crafted plasma gas torp, graviton dyson, bioneutral, and vaaudwar mine warhead. I may change this up, the two big boomers are slow to reload.

tac officers carry 2 copies of torp spread, a pattern beta, and a rapid fire or scatter (still trying to decide on which works better), and TT1. Sci and eng mostly healing. Command officer has 2 copies of concentrate firepower and 2 copies of the debuff that slows turn/flightspeed/etc (allowing the high yield procs to actually hit the target).

I have a lot of details to work out beyond this rough concept and slapdash "what was in the bank" gearing. I did slot rep and class traits that help torps. All in all, even with just a first try at it, its going well. SOLO enemy lose their facing shield to the turret barrage just as the torps land, and its over. Tougher STF / group enemy are not rapidly shield stripped, so a tac cube can be a bit of a pain. It helps that the enemy is pretty much shut down from turning --- most bosses are slow, and the tac cube can't even rotate so one shield face gets the entire assault. I am seeing 30-50k crits often. Of course shields greatly reduce the damage but the tet glider turret assault does a lot in a short amount of time; I need more flow caps but that is a build issue.

It is *still* a torp build and *still* inferior dps. Keep that in mind if you mess with it. But with a lot of work left to do, it is showing the buffs to torps from command to be useful and fun.

my top issues, in progress,
- the ship is a fat cow and I keep forgetting to not fly into my own bomb explosions

- flow caps is a bit low for the shield drain. I can probably get another 50 with some work, maybe more.

- the big boom torps may not be optimal. It might be better to have faster shooting weapons.

- I don't have fleet tac torp consoles.

- I need to figure out which fighter is best pet to make use of the torp debuffs -- something with TS1 maybe (kdf /rom usable fighter pet..)

- I need to figure out how to get pedal to the metal working well -- atm I am using the borg engine for tet glider set bonus and it is too fast, I need to slow down and come in at a crawl so I can pound the targets. It is extra annoying to shoot stationary targets as I can't get close (boom!) and I don't want to slow down. I don't want to do a drive-by as I want to keep all firepower on one shield face, knock that off, and nuke the hull.

- I need to take a long look at all 3 ships to see if tac is really the best for it.

Ideas welcome .... lets see what we can do with the command stuff...

darkknightucf · February 2015

W/ a heavy flowcaps build, you'd want to add Neutronic to your arsenal. Once properly fixed, it'll make flowcaps builds shine. For turrets, CSV works nicely. CSV1 has saved my butt more times than I can count, and for applying debuffs, it's nice (so long as the code supports it).

While I personally like to fly w/ a TS3 and a HY3 to be able to go between AoE and massive single-target damage, it's up to you and your play style. Between the Console and 2pc AMACO set + Counter Command Deflector, you'd be hard pressed to have more torpedo damage. It'll all come down to maneuverability and advance placement piloting.

For reference, here's my initial build w/ a (crude) flowchart for some idea synergy. Of course, adjust to your design ideas.

http://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/2pf98e/fleet_defiant_kinetic_heavy_fire_support/

*EDIT: I haven't dedicated my entire time to the Argala grind to get points (only did a few runs plus a TON of STF's for 5 points..... dot dot dot), so I cannot comment on the Command Spec tree too much aside from observations of others using it.

szerontzur · February 2015

I've considered it several times, but the problem is that torp builds really aren't suited to eng-heavy ships.. You want a lot of Tactical seating and consoles for damage and a healthy helping of science seating and consoles for control and/or stripping(seriously, just skip shield drains and go straight for power drains to disable shields outright - way more effective).

If you really wanted to.. you could still do an Kinetic-Exotic Damage build with the Science Variant: Inverted Repulsors + Eject Warp Plasma 3 + dual Transphasic mine launchers with alternating Dispersal Pattern Alpha(better area coverage) 1's + a pair of aft Breen Cluster Torps. Run the Breen 2-set for the Transphasic projectile damage boost.

I suppose you could hybrid a photon build into the Tactical Variant with a pair of Beam Arrays and Photon Tubes fore and aft, but your tactical seating is still going to be pretty tight. Hybrid builds like that are much nicer on escorts that can run APO3 while alternating a pair of BFAW2s and TS3s.

Running Quantums, or (especially) Plasmas really needs a different kind of ship archetype though.

gerwalk0769 · February 2015

My torp boat (all fore and aft torpedoes) experiences pre-Command and Intel.

On Tact heavy builds, like the Plesh, I've run no more than 3 torpedo skills, TT, Subsystem Targeting:Shield and patterns like APB. Sci powers were snares, heals, resists, etc. I use Tac consoles.

On Engie heavy builds, like the Risan Cruiser or Corvette, I've run copies of Aceton Beam and shield heals. I use Tac consoles.

On Sci heavy builds, I'm a Sci, I try to run synergy (flow caps, particle gens, etc) builds. Sometimes I use Tac consoles, sometimes I do not.

For the duration of the Anniversary I'm playing around with a few ideas for Samsar builds. This includes Boarding Parties and Concentrate Fire 1 and 2 which is currently bugged. Concentrate Fire has been very disappointing but see if it fits your play style...Currently I'm running all plasma torpedoes fore and still working on an aft setup I'm happy with.

If you cannot boost the damage of your torpedoes to overcome shields than think about shield bypassing damage. If you can reliably drop shields than think about using torpedoes that do the most direct to hull damage.

Oh, and the way I pilot torpedo boats I often fly over, under, or by my targets so I'm dealt some splash damage. Or you can fly V or L attack runs. I use the AMACO Engine and fly at full speed most times. But you can adjust the speed to find an attack speed that best fits you.

noroblad · February 2015

answering points and adding to it...

-neutronic --- I need to get one on her. Its on the to-do list. I did buy a lobi console (caps and torp damage thing, rule 62) and upgraded it to xiv. That helped. There are a lot of things I can, and may, buy, when I can. I also got a set of tac fleet torp consoles.

I don't need HY because the command skill is an upgraded HY. Its providing HY torps AND more damage all rolled into one!

I have actually moved to a crafted deflector to get more flow caps. And then they announced the drain change.... so derp... my new 40 FC crafted deflector may have wasted time and resources.

I've considered it several times, but the problem is that torp builds really aren't suited to eng-heavy ships.. You want a lot of Tactical seating and consoles for damage and a healthy helping of science seating and consoles for control and/or stripping(seriously, just skip shield drains and go straight for power drains to disable shields outright - way more effective).

-> Ive pretty much settled to the tac version of the ship. Since the command seats are effectively tac seats (2 of them are sporting high yield replacement skill) and the tac version has enough seats to pull it off. 4 tac consoles, ltcmdr and lt tac with the HY moved off is plenty. Dunno about power drains, I don't have a lot of sci seats here, and I am not going to spend oodles on lockbox turrets for it.

If you really wanted to.. you could still do an Kinetic-Exotic Damage build with the Science Variant: Inverted Repulsors + Eject Warp Plasma 3 + dual Transphasic mine launchers with alternating Dispersal Pattern Alpha(better area coverage) 1's + a pair of aft Breen Cluster Torps. Run the Breen 2-set for the Transphasic projectile damage boost.

-> I will eventually go back to an exotic sci build, but it probably will not have a lot of torps, dunno yet. The exotic build is nasty but the ship lacks 1 sci console and a 2nd deflector and such, and it lacks the dps with guns to make a hybrid build. TSBC is still the best hybrid for sci/guns.

I suppose you could hybrid a photon build into the Tactical Variant with a pair of Beam Arrays and Photon Tubes fore and aft, but your tactical seating is still going to be pretty tight. Hybrid builds like that are much nicer on escorts that can run APO3 while alternating a pair of BFAW2s and TS3s.

-> Not my style, really. Its a good build, but not what I was going for right now. Its a rom sci. If I wanted more dps, I could jump in my faeht or scim and one shot everything, but that is already boring and I have a rom tac for that. I know what I have won't top the charts, but its fun to mess around with stuff.

-- I actually find concentrate firepower to do OK. It provides high yield bombs, buggy or not, those are helping on the tougher targets.

-- I have a lot of shield pen -- rep trait for shearing, plasma, etc. And the turrets knock shields down pretty well.

-- still working on best piloting techniques for it. Target management is helping too.. realize that a target is gonna die and swap to next, and picking on the tougher stuff directly while letting TS take out the weaker stuff...

All in all its working but keep it in perspective. Torps fire about 1/3 or less the rate of beams and do about the same amount of damage.... its never gonna be uber

Unknown · February 2015

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noroblad · February 2015

wardcalis wrote: »

THIS IS NOT A TORP BOAT
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1379011
That is a torp boat in a command ship that parsed 27k on its maiden voyage into ISA. I'm now at 34k from minor tweaks here and there

What is not a torp boat?
yours and mine are very similar ... you have beams aft, I have turrets, both have 4 torps up front. You have HY where I have TS. Otherwise its very, very similar. I have rule 62 and the new ship's torp console, you have those engineer consoles.

I have not parsed mine. I won't do that until I can afford to take the torps to XIV, which will be a few weeks.

--- updates
Ive settled in on for sure using the crafted gas plasma torp, neutronic (finally got it), dyson gravimetric, and the tric cluster. The command movement debuff traps them in the plasma gas cloud and GW effects which makes for a nice combo.

adjusted power levels and managed to get 50/hit shield strip from the turrets.

blessedladyboy · February 2015

Are you using overwhelm emitters? Does a similar shield strip effect to tet glider, you could stack both perhaps.

darkknightucf · February 2015

wardcalis wrote: »

THIS IS NOT A TORP BOAT
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1379011
That is a torp boat in a command ship that parsed 27k on its maiden voyage into ISA. I'm now at 34k from minor tweaks here and there

I'm confused as well, how is his ship not a torpedo ship?

noroblad · February 2015

blessedladyboy wrote: »

Are you using overwhelm emitters? Does a similar shield strip effect to tet glider, you could stack both perhaps.

I need to look at that again. TY for mentioning it!

Unknown · February 2015

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disposeableh3r0 · February 2015

Well I know they are fixing alot of the command powers soon, its already on tribble.

Tachyon beam just got a redo and the Sci command ships trait does something to that may be worth a look.

That plasma emissions torp is so awesome. I would rate it the best utility torp I the game.

Have you thought about using some omni beams rear? Would let you use something like target shields. If you go ap you can have 2 and the kcb.

The elite scorpions from the romulan rep have high yield plasma torps.

I would also definitely use the omega or romulan torps with some torp cd doffs as suggested elsewhere.

Unknown · February 2015

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disposeableh3r0 · February 2015

wardcalis wrote: »

Beam overload would be better than target shield. Add in the BO doffs that give 35% shield penetration. I opted not to use a beam power on the command ships. Kinda complicated why.

Fair enough

gerwalk0769 · February 2015

There are a lot of opinions of what makes a torpedo boat. Some are more stringent that others. As for definitions, we all have them so it is best to create a projectile build that suits your needs and play style.

If you have not read "A Guide to Torpedo Boats" forum thread I suggest you goggle it and read it.
It might help you decide what torpedoes to use and how to set up your ship.

disposeableh3r0 · February 2015

Torpedo boat - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_

More literal - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/11/new_airlock_seal_sub/

noroblad · February 2015

blessedladyboy wrote: »

Are you using overwhelm emitters? Does a similar shield strip effect to tet glider, you could stack both perhaps.

I took a look at this.
It is gimped to only proc twice a second. That might work great for a high dps beam ship or something but with turrets that are often at long range, the amount of shield damage my setup would do is pathetic. It would have to proc every shot to be worth using, and it does not.

I didnt say it but I do have the torp projectile cooldown officers installed.

I will not use the rom torp. Ive been there and all that piece of junk does is lob HY bombs that never hit the target and end up floating in space forever. They might work on borg gates, but even slow ships outrun them or aoe them away.

I don't recall the omega torp doing anything interesting. Ill have to look at it again. We will have to disagree about shields/engines... maco does nothing at all for torp dps, I will keep my tet glider set there. 5% cooldown... is insignificant. 5% of 30 seconds is 28.5 seconds. 200+ extra shield damage/sec is easily equal to that for being useful (I don't know how fast they shoot with CRF... its amazing on one target).

I agree, I need a counter command deflector. Its a sci toon, and I never picked one of those up, because I have been doing exotic builds until just now and while it has pgen its less than others. Its on the to-do list; the recent nerf to flowcaps for drain make it very easy to replace the deflector now.

Fed gear I cannot use it. I am using the tholian fighters as well.

I know the tric cluster isnt a real torp. I still like its aoe effect; the explosion has a radius and the mines will chase multiple targets in a GW pile. Its likely a faster reloading torp would up my dps ... and I may swap it later. For now it amuses me to use it.

I don't really want aft beams. I can only slot 2 anyway... 2 omnis and 2 what? KCB can't do any aoe faw/overload or anything else ... arrays can't hit the target when flying at it. Mines or aft torps? They would rarely add any value. Atm my rainbow turrets do what need doing... shield damage with a variety of proc debuffs (theres a disruptor in there, and a vaaudwar, and I forget the other 2). I may swap them to the better tetyron ones later but I don't have the funds atm.

blessedladyboy · February 2015

noroblad wrote: »

I took a look at this.
It is gimped to only proc twice a second. That might work great for a high dps beam ship or something but with turrets that are often at long range, the amount of shield damage my setup would do is pathetic. It would have to proc every shot to be worth using, and it does not.

I didnt say it but I do have the torp projectile cooldown officers installed.

I will not use the rom torp. Ive been there and all that piece of junk does is lob HY bombs that never hit the target and end up floating in space forever. They might work on borg gates, but even slow ships outrun them or aoe them away.

I don't recall the omega torp doing anything interesting. Ill have to look at it again. We will have to disagree about shields/engines... maco does nothing at all for torp dps, I will keep my tet glider set there. 5% cooldown... is insignificant. 5% of 30 seconds is 28.5 seconds. 200+ extra shield damage/sec is easily equal to that for being useful (I don't know how fast they shoot with CRF... its amazing on one target).

I agree, I need a counter command deflector. Its a sci toon, and I never picked one of those up, because I have been doing exotic builds until just now and while it has pgen its less than others. Its on the to-do list; the recent nerf to flowcaps for drain make it very easy to replace the deflector now.

Fed gear I cannot use it. I am using the tholian fighters as well.

I know the tric cluster isnt a real torp. I still like its aoe effect; the explosion has a radius and the mines will chase multiple targets in a GW pile. Its likely a faster reloading torp would up my dps ... and I may swap it later. For now it amuses me to use it.

I don't really want aft beams. I can only slot 2 anyway... 2 omnis and 2 what? KCB can't do any aoe faw/overload or anything else ... arrays can't hit the target when flying at it. Mines or aft torps? They would rarely add any value. Atm my rainbow turrets do what need doing... shield damage with a variety of proc debuffs (theres a disruptor in there, and a vaaudwar, and I forget the other 2). I may swap them to the better tetyron ones later but I don't have the funds atm.

Interesting regarding emitters, its per pulse and I'm liking it a lot but I'm running 7 single cannon turret build with a single torp.

Regarding maco engine/shield, he meant adapted maco aka Klingon honour guard it give 20% damage to torps and you should be using it IMO along with counter command deflector.

noroblad · February 2015

blessedladyboy wrote: »

Interesting regarding emitters, its per pulse and I'm liking it a lot but I'm running 7 single cannon turret build with a single torp.

Regarding maco engine/shield, he meant adapted maco aka Klingon honour guard it give 20% damage to torps and you should be using it IMO along with counter command deflector.

Found it, its honor guard, not adapted HG.
I may have to move to that later. Another expense lol... would be a total rebuild of everything, but 25% is pretty steep

Unknown · February 2015

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disposeableh3r0 · February 2015

The purpose of using the omega or romulan torp is to get them to proc you torpedo cooldown doffs.
Each torpedo fired can set it off so the rom torpedo gets 3 chanced a cycle and the omega just fires stupidly fast. All for getting your lager slower firing torpedos reloaded faster.

gerwalk0769 · February 2015

noroblad wrote: »

I took a look at this.
It is gimped to only proc twice a second. That might work great for a high dps beam ship or something but with turrets that are often at long range, the amount of shield damage my setup would do is pathetic. It would have to proc every shot to be worth using, and it does not.

I didnt say it but I do have the torp projectile cooldown officers installed.

I will not use the rom torp. Ive been there and all that piece of junk does is lob HY bombs that never hit the target and end up floating in space forever. They might work on borg gates, but even slow ships outrun them or aoe them away.

I don't recall the omega torp doing anything interesting. Ill have to look at it again. We will have to disagree about shields/engines... maco does nothing at all for torp dps, I will keep my tet glider set there. 5% cooldown... is insignificant. 5% of 30 seconds is 28.5 seconds. 200+ extra shield damage/sec is easily equal to that for being useful (I don't know how fast they shoot with CRF... its amazing on one target).

I agree, I need a counter command deflector. Its a sci toon, and I never picked one of those up, because I have been doing exotic builds until just now and while it has pgen its less than others. Its on the to-do list; the recent nerf to flowcaps for drain make it very easy to replace the deflector now.

Fed gear I cannot use it. I am using the tholian fighters as well.

I know the tric cluster isnt a real torp. I still like its aoe effect; the explosion has a radius and the mines will chase multiple targets in a GW pile. Its likely a faster reloading torp would up my dps ... and I may swap it later. For now it amuses me to use it.

I don't really want aft beams. I can only slot 2 anyway... 2 omnis and 2 what? KCB can't do any aoe faw/overload or anything else ... arrays can't hit the target when flying at it. Mines or aft torps? They would rarely add any value. Atm my rainbow turrets do what need doing... shield damage with a variety of proc debuffs (theres a disruptor in there, and a vaaudwar, and I forget the other 2). I may swap them to the better tetyron ones later but I don't have the funds atm.

The Omega Torpedo HY variant can be very damaging. While I like the Romulan Torpedo plasma AOE damage, I run it (as consistent damage), and the Breen Cluster Torpedo (Burst damage) aft.

The Vaaudwar Cluster Torpedo is certainly fun, I ran it fore on the Breen Carrier. I'd fire it on the approach, fly over the target and then hit them with the Breen.

But if you are keeping your Tet. Glider ability perhaps you could use Refracting or (free) Piercing Tetryon turrets aft? Since you do not want aft beams. Just an idea.

darkknightucf · February 2015

disposeableh3r0 wrote: »

The purpose of using the omega or romulan torp is to get them to proc you torpedo cooldown doffs.
Each torpedo fired can set it off so the rom torpedo gets 3 chanced a cycle and the omega just fires stupidly fast. All for getting your lager slower firing torpedos reloaded faster.

Aside from rapid firing, is there any other advantage to using the Omega torpedo? I have not done much research beyond its firing modes and passed on it because it didn't have enough punch up front. I could very well be missing something, and I freely admit it, but if all it's used for is to proc the PWO DOffs, then, imho, it's completely unnecessary unless you *constantly* have bad RNG when using two or three PWO's.

Unknown · February 2015

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heresincebeta · February 2015

wardcalis wrote: »

if your using torp spread the omega will trump the rom torp every time. The plasma dot on it hits almost 3 times harder and the normal torp flies full speed normal and spread, high yield is the plasma bolt that hits nearly as hard as a high yield grav torp and flies at the same speed.

actually no. the best thing about the rom torp is torpedo spread. it fires many torpedos at each target. the best thing? they are homing and if your target dies before they land, they re-direct to new targets. You lose much less DPS this way than with standard torps that don't redirect when their target dies before landing (such as omega torp)

I recommend this as the base of a plasma torp build:
Particle Emission Plasma Torp, Rom Torp, Plasma Beam Arrays
Experimental Plasma Beam Array (Replace with crafted CritD plasma beam array if using the zero-point console... you just need the 2-pc set bonus), Omni Plasma Beam Array

Nukara 2-pc (shield/eng), CC 2-pc (def/core upgraded to UR for amp)

+PartGen science consoles (boosts the EWP field of the particle plasma torp)

Plasma Torpedo Vuln Locators

Spam TS3 and BFAW.

disposeableh3r0 · February 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

Aside from rapid firing, is there any other advantage to using the Omega torpedo? I have not done much research beyond its firing modes and passed on it because it didn't have enough punch up front. I could very well be missing something, and I freely admit it, but if all it's used for is to proc the PWO DOffs, then, imho, it's completely unnecessary unless you *constantly* have bad RNG when using two or three PWO's.

Well it has higher dps than any other torpedo, so it functions more like an energy weapon than a torpedo, keeping your pressure damage up while waiting for your spikes. The 2 piece bonus on the set isnt too bad either.

darkknightucf · February 2015

wardcalis wrote: »

At the bottom of page 2 in my post I went over it in detail comparing it to the rom torp

Thanks. I'll have a deeper read of it when I have time tonight.

Unknown · February 2015

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gerwalk0769 · February 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

Aside from rapid firing, is there any other advantage to using the Omega torpedo? I have not done much research beyond its firing modes and passed on it because it didn't have enough punch up front. I could very well be missing something, and I freely admit it, but if all it's used for is to proc the PWO DOffs, then, imho, it's completely unnecessary unless you *constantly* have bad RNG when using two or three PWO's.

The plasma DoT and HY special attack were selling points.

pottsey5g · February 2015

Doesn't the Omega torp still have double targets. So it hits 10 targets for torp spread 3? Last time I used it, that's how it worked and it said so on the tooltip but its been a very long time since I used it.

darkknightucf · February 2015

gerwalk0769 wrote: »

The plasma DoT and HY special attack were selling points.

So I got one and upgraded it to Mk XIV (VR)

My initial assessment was, "OK, this is cool, not spectacular, but cool. Seems to hit more targets, but will need to check the logs for it."

The plasma dot does less than my PEP, and the kinetic damage is less in Spread3 than PEP, but, it looks like the plasma dots stack per hit. Still, for usefulness, I'ld like PEP over Omega for utility and damage done.

I check the tooltips from the skills window, and noticed that it creates a lvl 70 Plasma energy bolt for the HY3 component. Looks to do 1K more damage than my HY3 Grav... then I noticed that the HY3 Grav is a lvl 69 Hvy Gravimetric Device III......

The Enh BioTorp shows no level, but has slightly lower damage for it's HY3 vs Undine, BUT, for a fast-moving, non-destructible, non-suicidal torp, I would call that a fair traide-off.

So, why the discrepancy between Grav and Omega for their HY variants, especially with the quality difference (My Grav is gold-plated)?

Still testing this out.

FYI: Max. One-Hit: 556,796 (High Yield Gravimetric Explosion III) last night.

command torp boat

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