If you running any type of plasma weapon, or any weapon that has a damage dealing proc; hitting APA, EPtW, APO, anything that gives a damage bonus/buff, will increase the damage of both the weapon and it's proc (plasma dot).
This is the way it is working for all weapons and procs except the plasma dot from the embassy console. this is a bug.
that's the first part of what i'm saying.
the second part:
on normal plasma weapons and all it's variaties, the +pla tactical consoles increase the damage done by the plasma weapon and it's plasma dot. why would the plasma dot from the embassy console not be effected the same way as the plasma dot from plasma weapons? this is inconsistent.
Consoles shouldn't be affected by anything, period. Consoles should only provide a flat bonus, and anything else should only affect the base damage of weapons. APA should NOT, in any way, increase both the damage of the weapon and the bonus from the consoles. That's just stupid. And if that's how its been working, along with increasing DoT effects, then that would largely explain the stupid amount if dps players are able to dish out.
This isn't relevant but scis need a revamp on their abilities like tacs and engis got. If you think that scis are tanks or some sort you are mistaken. In a sci-fi world, science should win not pew pew.
You still get extra plasma damage off them regardless, just not the old uncontrolled one. None of the other embassy consoles get extra boosts. Hangar pets are a whole other story, they do suck.
Requesting that plasma dots benefit from APA, APO, EPTW, etc, isn't 'double-dipping', it's normal procedure.
There should be nothing odd about a request asking that one plasma dot on energy weapons benefits from the same buffs as the other.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
I said we'd look into this on Monday, and we have! How 'bout that...
So, after a little deliberation and comparative mathing, we've come to the conclusion that comparing a DOT proc to a passive +Damage buff is a pain in the ... well, it's not a fair or accurate comparison, as it involves a random element of chance. Even taken over an extremely large sample size, the end result feels skewed by that random element.
The fact that these Consoles behave differently depending upon the weapon you are firing is also potentially confusing for players ... "do I get more out of this if I use Plasma, or Not-Plasma?"
We've decided to address the various issues of these Consoles' design, by rebuilding the Consoles' effects at some point in the near future. The new design is intended to be fairly simple:
All Energy Weapons will gain a 2.5% chance to apply an instant amount of Plasma Damage, on hit. (amount of damage is TBD, but should be comparable to what you can currently achieve)
This new console effect will be built to benefit from +Damage abilities and consoles.
No more DOT, and no more differing benefits for different weapon types.
And now for a bit of bad news: We're not going to be able to make this rebuild and get it tested before the changes that are currently on Tribble will appear on Holodeck.
This means that what you're seeing right now, is what will go live with this build, probably later this week. I just wanted to let you all know that further changes will be coming. Changes that restore a state of equality between Plasma and Non-Plasma weapons, when using these Embassy Consoles.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I said we'd look into this on Monday, and we have! How 'bout that...
So, after a little deliberation and comparative mathing, we've come to the conclusion that comparing a DOT proc to a passive +Damage buff is a pain in the ... well, it's not a fair or accurate comparison, as it involves a random element of chance. Even taken over an extremely large sample size, the end result feels skewed by that random element.
The fact that these Consoles behave differently depending upon the weapon you are firing is also potentially confusing for players ... "do I get more out of this if I use Plasma, or Not-Plasma?"
We've decided to address the various issues of these Consoles' design, by rebuilding the Consoles' effects at some point in the near future. The new design is intended to be fairly simple:
All Energy Weapons will gain a 2.5% chance to apply an instant amount of Plasma Damage, on hit. (amount of damage is TBD, but should be comparable to what you can currently achieve)
This new console effect will be built to benefit from +Damage abilities and consoles.
No more DOT, and no more differing benefits for different weapon types.
And now for a bit of bad news: We're not going to be able to make this rebuild and get it tested before the changes that are currently on Tribble will appear on Holodeck.
This means that what you're seeing right now, is what will go live with this build, probably later this week. I just wanted to let you all know that further changes will be coming. Changes that restore a state of equality between Plasma and Non-Plasma weapons, when using these Embassy Consoles.
So with that rebuild, if you use a +Plasma console, that proc would or wouldn't get boosted? Otherwise it comes back to someone using plasma weapons and plasma consoles getting extra effect. I'm fine with using tac boosts to boost weapons damage. Doesn't bother me as much as APA making FBP better for tac captains than sci ones.
Will the damage bypass shields as it currently does with the DOT?
He's talking about a flat 2.5% chance of plasma weapon damage, you know the kind plasma weapons deal. The plasma DoT proc is still restricted to plasma weapons. It's like saying 2.5% chance of antiproton damage if you understand that one better (Since there is no proc on those).
P.S. Just one thing Bort, does any skill or trait boost the other two console types? (shield or hull) Because if not, it still seems that one console type gets extra benefit over the other two. I really don't like how damage power creep always takes precedence over other things.
P.P.S. Is it just me, or did the new leadership change course all of a sudden regarding bugs and balancing? The bug fixing and adjusting has gotten better, although that also happened in February of last year so I have to see if it lasts.
I said we'd look into this on Monday, and we have! How 'bout that...
So, after a little deliberation and comparative mathing, we've come to the conclusion that comparing a DOT proc to a passive +Damage buff is a pain in the ... well, it's not a fair or accurate comparison, as it involves a random element of chance. Even taken over an extremely large sample size, the end result feels skewed by that random element.
...snip...
This means that what you're seeing right now, is what will go live with this build, probably later this week. I just wanted to let you all know that further changes will be coming. Changes that restore a state of equality between Plasma and Non-Plasma weapons, when using these Embassy Consoles.
I am in favor of the reasoning behind this change. I am appreciative that you're communicating stuff. I will withhold my appreciation of the actual change till we see where the consoles stand as being worth, well, anything.
Even with 'doping' going on, embassy consoles were averaging out about as good as things such as the bioneural infusion circuits and tachyokinetic converter. They were simply better at getting high records or not costing an absurd amount of ec (80 mil each) to obtain. After the removal/before the discovery of +beam, tachyo/bioneural will be better. My hope is that this won't end up a nerf past that point, so that people who weren't using +beam, or people who actually have good reason to use +th consoles, aren't hurt.
I mean, part of that's just me being selfish as someone who tanks, I suppose, and I know my friends who use romplas or corr plas will be happy about this (and I for them and game balance), I just wish to state my several cents on the subject now.
This new console effect will be built to benefit from +Damage abilities and consoles.
Two questions: First, will it benefit from +Beam/+Cannon/+torp consoles?
Secondly, will it benefit from either starship energy weapons or projectile weapons? I noticed that was lacking on the current state of plasma consoles.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
I said we'd look into this on Monday, and we have! How 'bout that...
So, after a little deliberation and comparative mathing, we've come to the conclusion that comparing a DOT proc to a passive +Damage buff is a pain in the ... well, it's not a fair or accurate comparison, as it involves a random element of chance. Even taken over an extremely large sample size, the end result feels skewed by that random element.
The fact that these Consoles behave differently depending upon the weapon you are firing is also potentially confusing for players ... "do I get more out of this if I use Plasma, or Not-Plasma?"
We've decided to address the various issues of these Consoles' design, by rebuilding the Consoles' effects at some point in the near future. The new design is intended to be fairly simple:
All Energy Weapons will gain a 2.5% chance to apply an instant amount of Plasma Damage, on hit. (amount of damage is TBD, but should be comparable to what you can currently achieve)
This new console effect will be built to benefit from +Damage abilities and consoles.
No more DOT, and no more differing benefits for different weapon types.
And now for a bit of bad news: We're not going to be able to make this rebuild and get it tested before the changes that are currently on Tribble will appear on Holodeck.
This means that what you're seeing right now, is what will go live with this build, probably later this week. I just wanted to let you all know that further changes will be coming. Changes that restore a state of equality between Plasma and Non-Plasma weapons, when using these Embassy Consoles.
Ok, i tentatively like this change, depending of coarse on the amount of damage that will be dealt.
This will put the plasma infusers inline with the +Huh and +ShH embassy consoles which do instant hull heals or shield heals.
The currently max damage for these consoles on tribble is ~286 damage/sec for 15s, for a total of around 4100 damage.
can we expect then to see 2.5% chance to do around 4k plasma damage if we're trying to keep it equiv? Or are we talking comparative to what we have now on holodeck, which could be anywhere from 6k for a console unbuffed by +beams; or 15-20k for a buffed console? (numbers are Damage not DPS)
P.S. Just one thing Bort, does any skill or trait boost the other two console types? (shield or hull) Because if not, it still seems that one console type gets extra benefit over the other two. I really don't like how damage power creep always takes precedence over other things.
Yes +Huh and +ShH are both boosted by anything that boosts hull or shield heals respectively.
I said we'd look into this on Monday, and we have! How 'bout that...
So, after a little deliberation and comparative mathing, we've come to the conclusion that comparing a DOT proc to a passive +Damage buff is a pain in the ... well, it's not a fair or accurate comparison, as it involves a random element of chance. Even taken over an extremely large sample size, the end result feels skewed by that random element.
The fact that these Consoles behave differently depending upon the weapon you are firing is also potentially confusing for players ... "do I get more out of this if I use Plasma, or Not-Plasma?"
We've decided to address the various issues of these Consoles' design, by rebuilding the Consoles' effects at some point in the near future. The new design is intended to be fairly simple:
All Energy Weapons will gain a 2.5% chance to apply an instant amount of Plasma Damage, on hit. (amount of damage is TBD, but should be comparable to what you can currently achieve)
This new console effect will be built to benefit from +Damage abilities and consoles.
No more DOT, and no more differing benefits for different weapon types.
And now for a bit of bad news: We're not going to be able to make this rebuild and get it tested before the changes that are currently on Tribble will appear on Holodeck.
This means that what you're seeing right now, is what will go live with this build, probably later this week. I just wanted to let you all know that further changes will be coming. Changes that restore a state of equality between Plasma and Non-Plasma weapons, when using these Embassy Consoles.
Hrmm, I've got a few concerns here - something that may have needed some tweaking because of scaling from the Mk XII->Mk XIV angle (and maybe even before that to a lesser degree, though if I had my druthers it would have been increasing non-[Pla] Plasma DoTs up to the Mk XII and then scaling it from there)...is getting well, hrmm, I honestly don't know what it's getting from reading that.
I get that the gist to balance is in providing options, but that it's also a business that needs to generate revenue so there will be things that end up being better while also providing options, so I can definitely appreciate the issue you had in trying to balance [Pla] for Plasma and non-Plasma weapons...that RNG aspect (with two [Pla] consoles you might have 8-10 DoTs going on one target with 0 on the next - it was extremely swingy)...and comparing that to the more "static" damage boost provided to Plasma.
It just feels like this isn't going to end up being about options though...I guess is what it comes down to there.
Say we had four weapons...
Antiproton Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
Nanite Disruptor Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x3
Vaadwaur Polaron Emitter Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
The AP has it's additional CrtD.
The Nanite has the 2.5% Shield Penetration and -5 DRR Debuff.
The RomPlas has the Plasma DoT and -10 DRR Debuff.
The Vaad has the -10% Energy Shield Hardness and -50% Projectile Shield Hardness.
If the [Pla] consoles were to add a single Plasma DoT equivalent to what the RomPlas offered, then it would be a case of balancing what the [Pla] offered the RomPlas user...
...which gets into the overall valuation of mods and the stuff Jeff was looking into, yeah? Cause basically as it stands now from the weapon's point of view, not the player's...
non-Plasma...adds Plasma DoT proc.
Plasma...adds [Dmg] (ugh!) or adds [CrtD], etc, etc, etc.
But depending on what was selected there, it would kill choice - since, imho, players don't quite see the various mods/procs as balanced.
If you had [Pla] add [CrtD] for Plasma and a standard Plasma DoT for non-Plasma, well I'm going to stack [Pla] for that CrtD for my Plasma weapons and get more CrtD than available elsewhere. If you did [Dmg]...then yeah...no...maybe...not likely.
Could babble on for days about it, but I'll just stop there saying that I've got a wee idea that it's near impossible because of the RNG element of it.
This new console effect will be built to benefit from +Damage abilities and consoles.
No more DOT, and no more differing benefits for different weapon types.
...and that concern with a wee bit of clarification that might help me out a bit.
When you say consoles, are you saying that regardless of console type - they will boost that Plasma damage equally?
Going back to those four weapons from earlier...
Antiproton Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
Nanite Disruptor Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x3
Vaadwaur Polaron Emitter Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
...and the AP's going to be running AP consoles, Disruptor's Disruptor consoles, etc, etc, etc.
Will the AP console provide the same boost to this new Plasma proc as a Plasmawill? Or will it just be the Generics and the Plasma that do?
That "no more differing benefits for different weapon types" suggests the former...but I'd rather ask now than find myself grumbling about it later if it is the latter.
All Energy Weapons will gain a 2.5% chance to apply an instant amount of Plasma Damage, on hit. (amount of damage is TBD, but should be comparable to what you can currently achieve)
This new console effect will be built to benefit from +Damage abilities and consoles.
Sounds like a good change, but I'm a little concerned: You say it's improved by consoles, and it's plasma damage...does this mean that players running plasma damage boosting tactical consoles will see more benefit than those running other energy types?
My only problem, and this is I think purely visual, is that one of the things the plasma burn from consoles offered is that the visual plasma cloud that denoted the target was being burnt was of the colour of the beam. Now with this instadamage, that unique visual aid is gone, which is a goshdarn shame.
Changes that restore a state of equality between Plasma and Non-Plasma weapons, when using these Embassy Consoles.
Sooooo going out of your way to make sure antiprotons stay >>>>>>>>>>>>> all other energy types? We cannot have plasma upset the ap jockies. I'll even bet the plasma proc will benefit from the extra crit severity from ap weapons.
Sooooo going out of your way to make sure antiprotons stay >>>>>>>>>>>>> all other energy types? We cannot have plasma upset the ap jockies. I'll even bet the plasma proc will benefit from the extra crit severity from ap weapons.
As opposed to the way these consoles were working, which benefited every energy type except plasma?
Borticus, I'm not sure if this was actually working as designed, but these consoles could be used to boost eject warp plasma and the damage dealt by the particle emission plasma torpedo's particle cloud. With the loss of the plasma damage increase, I take it that won't be the case anymore? It's definitely going to affect a few of my builds.
Borticus, I'm not sure if this was actually working as designed, but these consoles could be used to boost eject warp plasma and the damage dealt by the particle emission plasma torpedo's particle cloud. With the loss of the plasma damage increase, I take it that won't be the case anymore? It's definitely going to affect a few of my builds.
"Plasma-Generating Science consoles from the Romulan Reputation system have been updated to increase all Plasma damage, as opposed to just Plasma damage from Directed Energy weapons."
Was a change made back during the LoR beta (since the Plasma Infusers were no longer going to boost Exotic Plasma)...
...but hrmm, yeah - got kind of focused on the DoT to DD aspect of Bort's post, completely overlooked whether the +Plasma Damage part was going to remain.
Sooooo going out of your way to make sure antiprotons stay >>>>>>>>>>>>> all other energy types? We cannot have plasma upset the ap jockies. I'll even bet the plasma proc will benefit from the extra crit severity from ap weapons.
As per math in this thread, AP is roughly a 3-5% dps gain over weapons who's proc doesn't boost damage. Except that polaron buffs damage via reducing defense and shield resist, phaser can take shields or engines offline entirely for the same exact effects, tetryon directly does damage, plasma likewise does damage, disruptor is a team buff, and now I'm out of energy types.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
As per math in this thread, AP is roughly a 3-5% dps gain over weapons who's proc doesn't boost damage. Except that polaron buffs damage via reducing defense and shield resist, phaser can take shields or engines offline entirely for the same exact effects, tetryon directly does damage, plasma likewise does damage, disruptor is a team buff, and now I'm out of energy types.
This new console effect will be built to benefit from +Damage abilities and consoles.
Sorry guys, I misspoke. Not consoles. Including the ability for this new Proc to benefit from Consoles would, as others have pointed out in this thread, just swing the pendulum into Plasma's favor.
(That'll teach me for posting right before I leave for the night...)
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Sorry guys, I misspoke. Not consoles. Including the ability for this new Proc to benefit from Consoles would, as others have pointed out in this thread, just swing the pendulum into Plasma's favor.
(That'll teach me for posting right before I leave for the night...)
Would it be Weapon Plasma or Exotic Plasma?
Would it benefit from things like Starship Weapon Training and Starship Energy Weapons or from Starship Particle Generators? Or would it benefit from neither?
Would it benefit from various All Energy Damage, All Energy Bonus Damage, Weapon Damage boosts or things like Conservation of Energy, Positive Feedback Loop, Particle Manipulator, and the like?
But other than those Weapon vs. Exotic specific things (or potentially neither), it would be affected by All Damage and All Bonus Damage sorts of boosts...things like Partners in Arms, Attack Pattern Omega/Alpha, and the like?
edit: Just trying to get a pseudo-visual on what to expect by comparison to what exists now, what's likely to go live Thursday, and what will come about when this eventual changes comes about.
Would it benefit from things like Starship Weapon Training and Starship Energy Weapons or from Starship Particle Generators? Or would it benefit from neither?
Would it benefit from various All Energy Damage, All Energy Bonus Damage, Weapon Damage boosts or things like Conservation of Energy, Positive Feedback Loop, Particle Manipulator, and the like?
But other than those Weapon vs. Exotic specific things (or potentially neither), it would be affected by All Damage and All Bonus Damage sorts of boosts...things like Partners in Arms, Attack Pattern Omega/Alpha, and the like?
edit: Just trying to get a pseudo-visual on what to expect by comparison to what exists now, what's likely to go live Thursday, and what will come about when this eventual changes comes about.
I think he's just adding a flat weapon type damage like the proton type, just only boostable by abilities.
Would it benefit from things like Starship Weapon Training and Starship Energy Weapons or from Starship Particle Generators? Or would it benefit from neither?
Weapon Training and Energy Weapon Training. Not Particle Generators.
Would it benefit from various All Energy Damage, All Energy Bonus Damage, Weapon Damage boosts or things like Conservation of Energy, Positive Feedback Loop, Particle Manipulator, and the like?
But other than those Weapon vs. Exotic specific things (or potentially neither), it would be affected by All Damage and All Bonus Damage sorts of boosts...things like Partners in Arms, Attack Pattern Omega/Alpha, and the like?
Any ability that says "All Damage" or "All Energy Damage" should influence it. Traits as well.
Equipment and Set Bonuses? That might end up being case-by-case.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Any ability that says "All Damage" or "All Energy Damage" should influence it. Traits as well.
Out of topic, but kind of similar situation. What is your opinion on Attack Pattern Alpha boosting Feedback Pulse. No matter how high you try to go as a sci captain, tactical ones always can get double the effect on that ability. The All Hands on Deck trait has only made things worse by lowering the APA cooldown.
Not Exotic, since it requires a weapon to activate.
Weapon Training and Energy Weapon Training. Not Particle Generators.
Any ability that says "All Damage" or "All Energy Damage" should influence it. Traits as well.
Equipment and Set Bonuses? That might end up being case-by-case.
Thanks, Bort. That gives a clearer image.
Course, I can see folks asking about their Vulnerability Locators [+Beam]...since those wouldn't be energy specific, it wouldn't play into the specific energy favoritism that could have otherwise occurred - and - them thinking about their investments they made in them to buff the [Pla]-DoTs.
And meh (sorry for the head spinning sort of thing and not having asked everything at once) along those lines, but is the +Plasma Damage going to remain on the consoles as well even without affecting the new Plasma "doohickey"? Cause folks that ran various Plasma (both Weapon and Exotic) may have invested in the Embassy Sci consoles for that...and....it was quite 100% clear to me if that was the case or not.
Heh, I think I'll wobble off for a bit and let others ask any questions they may have...thanks again for taking the time to answer.
In case you missed my other post, I'm going to ask my question about exotic damage again:
These consoles could be used to boost eject warp plasma and the damage dealt by the particle emission plasma torpedo's particle cloud. With the loss of the plasma damage increase, I take it that won't be the case anymore?
In case you missed my other post, I'm going to ask my question about exotic damage again:
These consoles could be used to boost eject warp plasma and the damage dealt by the particle emission plasma torpedo's particle cloud. With the loss of the plasma damage increase, I take it that won't be the case anymore?
That would be another case of double dipping (Plasma tac and plasma embassy). Anyway, he's turning them into flat plasma weapons type damage.
That would be another case of double dipping (Plasma tac and plasma embassy). Anyway, he's turning them into flat plasma weapons type damage.
Plasma Infusers do not boost Exotic Plasma damage though. That [Pla] does boost all forms of Plasma was one of the concessions we got from Archon during the LoR beta for that change to the Infusers. The thing Cryptic likes to try to do if they can when they take, they try to give when they can. Heh, I couldn't get him to budge on the 2pc Harness though...lol.
Comments
Consoles shouldn't be affected by anything, period. Consoles should only provide a flat bonus, and anything else should only affect the base damage of weapons. APA should NOT, in any way, increase both the damage of the weapon and the bonus from the consoles. That's just stupid. And if that's how its been working, along with increasing DoT effects, then that would largely explain the stupid amount if dps players are able to dish out.
Requesting that plasma dots benefit from APA, APO, EPTW, etc, isn't 'double-dipping', it's normal procedure.
There should be nothing odd about a request asking that one plasma dot on energy weapons benefits from the same buffs as the other.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
So, after a little deliberation and comparative mathing, we've come to the conclusion that comparing a DOT proc to a passive +Damage buff is a pain in the ... well, it's not a fair or accurate comparison, as it involves a random element of chance. Even taken over an extremely large sample size, the end result feels skewed by that random element.
The fact that these Consoles behave differently depending upon the weapon you are firing is also potentially confusing for players ... "do I get more out of this if I use Plasma, or Not-Plasma?"
We've decided to address the various issues of these Consoles' design, by rebuilding the Consoles' effects at some point in the near future. The new design is intended to be fairly simple:
All Energy Weapons will gain a 2.5% chance to apply an instant amount of Plasma Damage, on hit. (amount of damage is TBD, but should be comparable to what you can currently achieve)
This new console effect will be built to benefit from +Damage abilities and consoles.
No more DOT, and no more differing benefits for different weapon types.
And now for a bit of bad news: We're not going to be able to make this rebuild and get it tested before the changes that are currently on Tribble will appear on Holodeck.
This means that what you're seeing right now, is what will go live with this build, probably later this week. I just wanted to let you all know that further changes will be coming. Changes that restore a state of equality between Plasma and Non-Plasma weapons, when using these Embassy Consoles.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
So with that rebuild, if you use a +Plasma console, that proc would or wouldn't get boosted? Otherwise it comes back to someone using plasma weapons and plasma consoles getting extra effect. I'm fine with using tac boosts to boost weapons damage. Doesn't bother me as much as APA making FBP better for tac captains than sci ones.
He's talking about a flat 2.5% chance of plasma weapon damage, you know the kind plasma weapons deal. The plasma DoT proc is still restricted to plasma weapons. It's like saying 2.5% chance of antiproton damage if you understand that one better (Since there is no proc on those).
P.S. Just one thing Bort, does any skill or trait boost the other two console types? (shield or hull) Because if not, it still seems that one console type gets extra benefit over the other two. I really don't like how damage power creep always takes precedence over other things.
P.P.S. Is it just me, or did the new leadership change course all of a sudden regarding bugs and balancing? The bug fixing and adjusting has gotten better, although that also happened in February of last year so I have to see if it lasts.
I am in favor of the reasoning behind this change. I am appreciative that you're communicating stuff. I will withhold my appreciation of the actual change till we see where the consoles stand as being worth, well, anything.
Even with 'doping' going on, embassy consoles were averaging out about as good as things such as the bioneural infusion circuits and tachyokinetic converter. They were simply better at getting high records or not costing an absurd amount of ec (80 mil each) to obtain. After the removal/before the discovery of +beam, tachyo/bioneural will be better. My hope is that this won't end up a nerf past that point, so that people who weren't using +beam, or people who actually have good reason to use +th consoles, aren't hurt.
I mean, part of that's just me being selfish as someone who tanks, I suppose, and I know my friends who use romplas or corr plas will be happy about this (and I for them and game balance), I just wish to state my several cents on the subject now.
Edit: About this:
Two questions: First, will it benefit from +Beam/+Cannon/+torp consoles?
Secondly, will it benefit from either starship energy weapons or projectile weapons? I noticed that was lacking on the current state of plasma consoles.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Ok, i tentatively like this change, depending of coarse on the amount of damage that will be dealt.
This will put the plasma infusers inline with the +Huh and +ShH embassy consoles which do instant hull heals or shield heals.
The currently max damage for these consoles on tribble is ~286 damage/sec for 15s, for a total of around 4100 damage.
can we expect then to see 2.5% chance to do around 4k plasma damage if we're trying to keep it equiv? Or are we talking comparative to what we have now on holodeck, which could be anywhere from 6k for a console unbuffed by +beams; or 15-20k for a buffed console? (numbers are Damage not DPS)
Yes +Huh and +ShH are both boosted by anything that boosts hull or shield heals respectively.
Hrmm, I've got a few concerns here - something that may have needed some tweaking because of scaling from the Mk XII->Mk XIV angle (and maybe even before that to a lesser degree, though if I had my druthers it would have been increasing non-[Pla] Plasma DoTs up to the Mk XII and then scaling it from there)...is getting well, hrmm, I honestly don't know what it's getting from reading that.
I get that the gist to balance is in providing options, but that it's also a business that needs to generate revenue so there will be things that end up being better while also providing options, so I can definitely appreciate the issue you had in trying to balance [Pla] for Plasma and non-Plasma weapons...that RNG aspect (with two [Pla] consoles you might have 8-10 DoTs going on one target with 0 on the next - it was extremely swingy)...and comparing that to the more "static" damage boost provided to Plasma.
It just feels like this isn't going to end up being about options though...I guess is what it comes down to there.
Say we had four weapons...
Antiproton Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
Nanite Disruptor Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x3
Vaadwaur Polaron Emitter Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
The AP has it's additional CrtD.
The Nanite has the 2.5% Shield Penetration and -5 DRR Debuff.
The RomPlas has the Plasma DoT and -10 DRR Debuff.
The Vaad has the -10% Energy Shield Hardness and -50% Projectile Shield Hardness.
If the [Pla] consoles were to add a single Plasma DoT equivalent to what the RomPlas offered, then it would be a case of balancing what the [Pla] offered the RomPlas user...
...which gets into the overall valuation of mods and the stuff Jeff was looking into, yeah? Cause basically as it stands now from the weapon's point of view, not the player's...
[Acc] = [CrtD] = [CrtD] = [Dmg] = Phaser Proc = Plasma Proc = Nanite Proc = etc, etc, etc.
...so one could see it along the lines of:
non-Plasma...adds Plasma DoT proc.
Plasma...adds [Dmg] (ugh!) or adds [CrtD], etc, etc, etc.
But depending on what was selected there, it would kill choice - since, imho, players don't quite see the various mods/procs as balanced.
If you had [Pla] add [CrtD] for Plasma and a standard Plasma DoT for non-Plasma, well I'm going to stack [Pla] for that CrtD for my Plasma weapons and get more CrtD than available elsewhere. If you did [Dmg]...then yeah...no...maybe...not likely.
Could babble on for days about it, but I'll just stop there saying that I've got a wee idea that it's near impossible because of the RNG element of it.
So there's this...
...and that concern with a wee bit of clarification that might help me out a bit.
When you say consoles, are you saying that regardless of console type - they will boost that Plasma damage equally?
Going back to those four weapons from earlier...
Antiproton Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
Nanite Disruptor Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x3
Vaadwaur Polaron Emitter Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [CrtD]x4
...and the AP's going to be running AP consoles, Disruptor's Disruptor consoles, etc, etc, etc.
Will the AP console provide the same boost to this new Plasma proc as a Plasmawill? Or will it just be the Generics and the Plasma that do?
That "no more differing benefits for different weapon types" suggests the former...but I'd rather ask now than find myself grumbling about it later if it is the latter.
Sounds like a good change, but I'm a little concerned: You say it's improved by consoles, and it's plasma damage...does this mean that players running plasma damage boosting tactical consoles will see more benefit than those running other energy types?
Sooooo going out of your way to make sure antiprotons stay >>>>>>>>>>>>> all other energy types? We cannot have plasma upset the ap jockies. I'll even bet the plasma proc will benefit from the extra crit severity from ap weapons.
As opposed to the way these consoles were working, which benefited every energy type except plasma?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=688641
"Plasma-Generating Science consoles from the Romulan Reputation system have been updated to increase all Plasma damage, as opposed to just Plasma damage from Directed Energy weapons."
Was a change made back during the LoR beta (since the Plasma Infusers were no longer going to boost Exotic Plasma)...
...but hrmm, yeah - got kind of focused on the DoT to DD aspect of Bort's post, completely overlooked whether the +Plasma Damage part was going to remain.
Looking at the post again...hrmm...er...hrmmm.
As per math in this thread, AP is roughly a 3-5% dps gain over weapons who's proc doesn't boost damage. Except that polaron buffs damage via reducing defense and shield resist, phaser can take shields or engines offline entirely for the same exact effects, tetryon directly does damage, plasma likewise does damage, disruptor is a team buff, and now I'm out of energy types.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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Polaron in a 5tac/4sci console ship like the M
Sorry guys, I misspoke. Not consoles. Including the ability for this new Proc to benefit from Consoles would, as others have pointed out in this thread, just swing the pendulum into Plasma's favor.
(That'll teach me for posting right before I leave for the night...)
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Would it be Weapon Plasma or Exotic Plasma?
Would it benefit from things like Starship Weapon Training and Starship Energy Weapons or from Starship Particle Generators? Or would it benefit from neither?
Would it benefit from various All Energy Damage, All Energy Bonus Damage, Weapon Damage boosts or things like Conservation of Energy, Positive Feedback Loop, Particle Manipulator, and the like?
But other than those Weapon vs. Exotic specific things (or potentially neither), it would be affected by All Damage and All Bonus Damage sorts of boosts...things like Partners in Arms, Attack Pattern Omega/Alpha, and the like?
edit: Just trying to get a pseudo-visual on what to expect by comparison to what exists now, what's likely to go live Thursday, and what will come about when this eventual changes comes about.
I think he's just adding a flat weapon type damage like the proton type, just only boostable by abilities.
Not Exotic, since it requires a weapon to activate.
Weapon Training and Energy Weapon Training. Not Particle Generators.
Any ability that says "All Damage" or "All Energy Damage" should influence it. Traits as well.
Equipment and Set Bonuses? That might end up being case-by-case.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Out of topic, but kind of similar situation. What is your opinion on Attack Pattern Alpha boosting Feedback Pulse. No matter how high you try to go as a sci captain, tactical ones always can get double the effect on that ability. The All Hands on Deck trait has only made things worse by lowering the APA cooldown.
Thanks, Bort. That gives a clearer image.
Course, I can see folks asking about their Vulnerability Locators [+Beam]...since those wouldn't be energy specific, it wouldn't play into the specific energy favoritism that could have otherwise occurred - and - them thinking about their investments they made in them to buff the [Pla]-DoTs.
And meh (sorry for the head spinning sort of thing and not having asked everything at once) along those lines, but is the +Plasma Damage going to remain on the consoles as well even without affecting the new Plasma "doohickey"? Cause folks that ran various Plasma (both Weapon and Exotic) may have invested in the Embassy Sci consoles for that...and....it was quite 100% clear to me if that was the case or not.
Heh, I think I'll wobble off for a bit and let others ask any questions they may have...thanks again for taking the time to answer.
These consoles could be used to boost eject warp plasma and the damage dealt by the particle emission plasma torpedo's particle cloud. With the loss of the plasma damage increase, I take it that won't be the case anymore?
That would be another case of double dipping (Plasma tac and plasma embassy). Anyway, he's turning them into flat plasma weapons type damage.
Plasma Infusers do not boost Exotic Plasma damage though. That [Pla] does boost all forms of Plasma was one of the concessions we got from Archon during the LoR beta for that change to the Infusers. The thing Cryptic likes to try to do if they can when they take, they try to give when they can. Heh, I couldn't get him to budge on the 2pc Harness though...lol.
Probably not, as that would also swing the pendulum the other way. We'll aim to roll that bonus into the damage dealt by the new On-Hit effect.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"