I'm sorry but you have that backwards you see rational people wouldn't be putting up with this, rational people would realize what a bad deal they are getting even with this new management and would logout and vote with their wallet instead of trying to insult those who know a bad deal when they see one.
I'm a relative rookie in all of this (since 4-2014). I tend to agree with the OP. Why all the
acrimony?
I just go and do as I wish in a totally random fashion, maybe (16) hours per week. Spec.
Points come as I play. As do the other "time gated" systems. I had some (12) Spec. Points
into Intell/Piloting/Commando, and a further (16) Points unspent as none of the remaining
powers in those trees held much interest for me prior to the "Command Tree" being activated.
There was no purposeful effort here, just normal, casual gaming. Folks are of course free to
pursue the game as they wish, (I do see the different priorities for PVP), but the game system,
changes and all, is what it is. Bring your expectations more in line with what yourselves
continually point out, or your doomed to being miserable.
Of course you can play this game laid back and just let things come at you. I am more or less such a player. My highest level character is 59.5, about 50.000 xp away from level cap. I call myself a slow leveler.
I like to play Dyson ground and although we are set to 50, the player group gets stronger and stronger. One day I could not kill one Dino, when I arrived it was already killed. In most situations, I can get the credits for one kill, going to the other zones has no purpose, they are nowadays too fast killed.
Dyson Ground, and also space, is what me may call a low level zone that is farmed by high levels. It was fun there, it is less, thanks to the overall player buff that came with the Delta Rising.
What I really find absurd the most is the introduction of the "Command" specialization and ships, considering that myself and many other players are not even half way through the tiers on any of the other specializations given. It takes me about 3 to 4 days (almost), just to fill up the Skill Bar. . So if someone has blazed through every single tier in 72 hours I would like to know how it was done . I find the Command Specialization and Ships release a bit premature for many of us.
Queues, mission content, battlezones DO NOT REWARD XP (of any value to be noticable.)
I could doff/DQ patrol my way to full spec trees across my 10 toons in about 6 months. This is fine on the timescale front (no I have never said OMG I WANT IN NAAAOOOW). However, it is NOT fine on the variation of play front as we are being forced to play certain content.
If I played the game normally as suggested, played a dozen stfs a day - maybe hit up a battlezone or two and did the odd featured episode as they came out it would take me DECADES to reach full trees. (And No, that is not an exageration, it is maths.)
Queues, mission content, battlezones DO NOT REWARD XP (of any value to be noticable.)
I could doff/DQ patrol my way to full spec trees across my 10 toons in about 6 months. This is fine on the timescale front (no I have never said OMG I WANT IN NAAAOOOW). However, it is NOT fine on the variation of play front as we are being forced to play certain content.
If I played the game normally as suggested, played a dozen stfs a day - maybe hit up a battlezone or two and did the odd featured episode as they came out it would take me DECADES to reach full trees. (And No, that is not an exageration, it is maths.)
True.
As far as Im concerned, with my 8 level 60 toons, doffing is the only option for an at least noticeable progress. At the moment I get about 1 spec point/week/toon. Think my toons currently all have some 30-40 of them.
I wont spend my time in Argala anymore because this is a one way ticket to the total death of fun in this game.
I cant tell how much my regular play of advanced and elite queues contribute to sp progression. From felt progress it seems slim to none.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I would agree with you if it weren't for the fact that to train an Intel Boff in Tier 3 Intel Skills, you need a truckload of Spec Points yourself. In other words, the Specialization mechanic does not just act as a little "long player bonus" but the skills of your boffs, and therefore the functionality of your ship, all hang on your own Spec Point.
Case in point: my Fed Sci is the only one with decent spec points, 16 so far. Yet, with a "Specialization Qualification" PADD, he cannot train his Intel boffs in skills like Surgical Strikes III, or Tripwire Drone III (he can, oddly, use that expensive PADD to train in say, "Evade Target Lock I" which you can get from the trainer already for 2,500 ec, but I digress).
So by all means, let's have the spec points act as a little bonus for long-term players, by removing the need to have high-level Specs to train your Intel boffs in high-end Intel skills.
Queues, mission content, battlezones DO NOT REWARD XP (of any value to be noticable.)
I could doff/DQ patrol my way to full spec trees across my 10 toons in about 6 months. This is fine on the timescale front (no I have never said OMG I WANT IN NAAAOOOW). However, it is NOT fine on the variation of play front as we are being forced to play certain content.
If I played the game normally as suggested, played a dozen stfs a day - maybe hit up a battlezone or two and did the odd featured episode as they came out it would take me DECADES to reach full trees. (And No, that is not an exageration, it is maths.)
Well there is the crux of the issue. "Full Trees". Why is this so important. Mind you, if you
feel they are important, fine. But you subject yourself to this "Grind" by your own desire. No
reason to complain of the "Decades" if this is your choice. Again the game is what it is by your
own observations. Also, I do not spend my time doing duplicate STF's/PVE's over and over
again. What I have garnered has come from Replay's/Foundry/Sector Alerts/Sector Contacts/
Doff's/Patrol's/Daily's, and so on. Spec. Points come along just fine.
Perhaps some of the issues stems from the previous hard level 50 cap, where all the end-game content did not need to provide experience points.
We all sat for years and earned millions of those useless DOFF-training points, and we're still prodding along.
I'm a casual player, I don't have neither the need, nor the desire, to endlessly grind. I jumped into the Delta content as soon as I had time after release, because it's new content, new story, it's entertainment (as weird as I may be, I play because I love Trek and want entertainment) - but while said new content was interesting, it immediately became frustrating due to the level gates. Fine, we'll get around it, and all characters save the first one have Delta on hold until they are already level 60.
The above may see out of place talking about specialization points, but they're both tied together. STO went from an end-game where xp were 98% useless for about 4-ish years, to an end-game where xp is required in massive quantities, but most of the end-game content still provides minuscule amounts compared to what is needed, and all those 5 year old characters played the xp-rewarding content years ago mostly.
I realized from the get go that specialization would take me forever. I started on the Delta content when it came out - my main character has finished pilot and 3-4 points were saved for command. If I'm lucky, I might actually have the first primary specialization finished by Christmas - on my main character that is, my other characters ain't even that far yet.
Will there always be people who feel they must grind any new thing fast? Of course, and they should be allowed to do so. But eventually the end-game xp gain ought to be adjusted. Why? Casual players with lifetime subscriptions can save up stipend zen for a T6 ship before they can finish a primary specialization - so it reduces potential zen sale for cryptic. Although, given how long I expect it to take me, I might even suspect that to be intentional...
All in all, it might be an idea for Cryptic to consider how often they want to release new trees, and take a realistic look at how xp rewards could be adjusted.
If they look at groupings and find that increased xp over the board will be useless to the top 5 %, then maybe it's a good idea - if it's 20 %, perhaps another mechanic such as a daily bonus for marks would be more useful - or a third or fourth idea - heck, even something as whacked as a bi-weekly "freebie point" would increase my progression by 50-100 % >_<
The main line is that with the launch of Delta Rising, xp gain and xp need went their separate way, and these two roads have to come together. The alternative is an ever increasing time-gap between new features and metric-proven income.
How will the metrics be interpreted, when command ships don't have their "it's a new fancy toy"-peak when they become available, but 2-12 months later when people finally get their tree filled out? The risk is, that there won't be a peak-sale of new ships of this type, so according to the metrics, making new ships with the "new shiny" effect absent will lead management to exactly what conslusion?
Well there is the crux of the issue. "Full Trees". Why is this so important. Mind you, if you
feel they are important, fine. But you subject yourself to this "Grind" by your own desire. No
reason to complain of the "Decades" if this is your choice. Again the game is what it is by your
own observations. Also, I do not spend my time doing duplicate STF's/PVE's over and over
again. What I have garnered has come from Replay's/Foundry/Sector Alerts/Sector Contacts/
Doff's/Patrol's/Daily's, and so on. Spec. Points come along just fine.
BCW.
Why full trees?
Maximize everything you can possibly get out of that Specialization.
Make Lv3 ability PADDs of that specialization yourself.
Traits, bonuses for both Space AND Ground gameplay. There are some very nice bonuses as you get further along the Spec Trees for both Ground AND Space.
That's mostly for the Primary Specializations. Then you have the Secondary Specs, i.e. Pilot and Commando. Not as expensive in Spec Points to master, but every Spec Point counts in this age of Nerfs Rising.
Some of us do not want to be still stuck with 5 points only in Intel (and only Intel) when the 3rd Primary Specialization comes around. Maybe you are fine with it, but some of us aren't.
Before all the XP nerfs, this thread subject wouldn't exist. We'd be playing where ever we wanted to play, doing what we wanted to do and get our XPs. But with the nerfs to XPs very shortly after DR released... well... here we are now.
Maximize everything you can possibly get out of that Specialization.
Make Lv3 ability PADDs of that specialization yourself.
Traits, bonuses for both Space AND Ground gameplay. There are some very nice bonuses as you get further along the Spec Trees for both Ground AND Space.
That's mostly for the Primary Specializations. Then you have the Secondary Specs, i.e. Pilot and Commando. Not as expensive in Spec Points to master, but every Spec Point counts in this age of Nerfs Rising.
Some of us do not want to be still stuck with 5 points only in Intel (and only Intel) when the 3rd Primary Specialization comes around. Maybe you are fine with it, but some of us aren't.
Before all the XP nerfs, this thread subject wouldn't exist. We'd be playing where ever we wanted to play, doing what we wanted to do and get our XPs. But with the nerfs to XPs very shortly after DR released... well... here we are now.
I am aware of the benefits these Spec. Points offer. And if they are a "must have" for folks,
fine. It will be nice if, and when I get there, I just do not feel pressed to do so. If others are,
again, fine. But it seems to me you know full well what your up against. I see no reason to
become surprised/dissatisfied with the process when, by your own admissions, you know its
there.
I am aware of the benefits these Spec. Points offer. And if they are a "must have" for folks,
fine. It will be nice if, and when I get there, I just do not feel pressed to do so. If others are,
again, fine. But it seems to me you know full well what your up against. I see no reason to
become surprised/dissatisfied with the process when, by your own admissions, you know its
there.
BCW.
Just as long as you know you're not going to get where we are currently anytime soon
A lot of player see themselves as the best when their character has everything maxed out. In a way they are right. The best character is the character with everything maxed out, levels, skills, reputation and of course the best gear. The best character is a character that has nothing more to improve. Of course there no reason to assume the best character is also the best player, To know that we should have some kind of competition.
Such a competition asks for a level playing field, every competitor is the same. AS long as you can bring a better character into the competition, it will not work. The best PvP event is the winter race. You may say that is only a problem for PvP, no it isn't. PVE does not work well if some players are weaker or stronger than others. The weaker are carried and can be a burden for the group. The stronger ones can solo things. What is the point of playing together if you don't need the other?
Never had the view that the game was a race to get somewhere. :P
BCW.
Well someone's never done Tour the Galaxy. You should. If you win the "race" you get a trait that lowers the cooldown of transwarp by 20%. It's called Well Travelled.
Well there is the crux of the issue. "Full Trees". Why is this so important. Mind you, if you
feel they are important, fine. But you subject yourself to this "Grind" by your own desire. No
reason to complain of the "Decades" if this is your choice. Again the game is what it is by your
own observations. Also, I do not spend my time doing duplicate STF's/PVE's over and over
again. What I have garnered has come from Replay's/Foundry/Sector Alerts/Sector Contacts/
Doff's/Patrol's/Daily's, and so on. Spec. Points come along just fine.
BCW.
Try playing only ground and see how slow you get it.
Try playing only ground and see how slow you get it.
If thats where you enjoy the game, great. Myself, I do both space and ground, and it changes
nothing in regards to my view of the Spec. Point question. They acrue as I go. Again, if one
knows the scheme, no reason to disparage (refering to other poster's). It is what it is.
Fortunatley, for myself, I am in no "hurry" while I enjoy myself. Enjoyment is why I log on. The
day that is'nt happening, is the day I move on.
Intended use for rational people: "Hey, neat, specialization points! Now, I can play this game I like to play, at the rate I think is fun, and I'm not at a hard level cap - I can keep "leveling up" for the next months, and maybe years, by earning new skills."
This is pretty much exactly my thoughts on the subject. :cool:
I don't feel entitled to anything. I don't need all specialization trees finished. BUT...
...9 out of my 10 characters will be left behind.
...when the new specialization comes out there is no way I'm going to start it. The previous ONE is MAYBE half way through.
I don't feel entitled to anything. I don't need all specialization trees finished. BUT...
...9 out of my 10 characters will be left behind.
...when the new specialization comes out there is no way I'm going to start it. The previous ONE is MAYBE half way through.
That's one of the design decisions I don't like. If you didn't invest enough points to unlock the traits, training, or kits you like switching to the new one makes all your points in the old one effectively vanish. If all the permanent stuff is at the end of the tree you're being punished for not filling it out.
Of the few captains I'm leveling now only two are getting spec points spent because of that. They are nowhere near the point cap so any points spent on a tree they wouldn't use would be wasted.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Comments
acrimony?
I just go and do as I wish in a totally random fashion, maybe (16) hours per week. Spec.
Points come as I play. As do the other "time gated" systems. I had some (12) Spec. Points
into Intell/Piloting/Commando, and a further (16) Points unspent as none of the remaining
powers in those trees held much interest for me prior to the "Command Tree" being activated.
There was no purposeful effort here, just normal, casual gaming. Folks are of course free to
pursue the game as they wish, (I do see the different priorities for PVP), but the game system,
changes and all, is what it is. Bring your expectations more in line with what yourselves
continually point out, or your doomed to being miserable.
I would much rather have more happy gamers.
BCW.
I like to play Dyson ground and although we are set to 50, the player group gets stronger and stronger. One day I could not kill one Dino, when I arrived it was already killed. In most situations, I can get the credits for one kill, going to the other zones has no purpose, they are nowadays too fast killed.
Dyson Ground, and also space, is what me may call a low level zone that is farmed by high levels. It was fun there, it is less, thanks to the overall player buff that came with the Delta Rising.
Queues, mission content, battlezones DO NOT REWARD XP (of any value to be noticable.)
I could doff/DQ patrol my way to full spec trees across my 10 toons in about 6 months. This is fine on the timescale front (no I have never said OMG I WANT IN NAAAOOOW). However, it is NOT fine on the variation of play front as we are being forced to play certain content.
If I played the game normally as suggested, played a dozen stfs a day - maybe hit up a battlezone or two and did the odd featured episode as they came out it would take me DECADES to reach full trees. (And No, that is not an exageration, it is maths.)
...#LLAP...
True.
As far as Im concerned, with my 8 level 60 toons, doffing is the only option for an at least noticeable progress. At the moment I get about 1 spec point/week/toon. Think my toons currently all have some 30-40 of them.
I wont spend my time in Argala anymore because this is a one way ticket to the total death of fun in this game.
I cant tell how much my regular play of advanced and elite queues contribute to sp progression. From felt progress it seems slim to none.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Case in point: my Fed Sci is the only one with decent spec points, 16 so far. Yet, with a "Specialization Qualification" PADD, he cannot train his Intel boffs in skills like Surgical Strikes III, or Tripwire Drone III (he can, oddly, use that expensive PADD to train in say, "Evade Target Lock I" which you can get from the trainer already for 2,500 ec, but I digress).
So by all means, let's have the spec points act as a little bonus for long-term players, by removing the need to have high-level Specs to train your Intel boffs in high-end Intel skills.
Well there is the crux of the issue. "Full Trees". Why is this so important. Mind you, if you
feel they are important, fine. But you subject yourself to this "Grind" by your own desire. No
reason to complain of the "Decades" if this is your choice. Again the game is what it is by your
own observations. Also, I do not spend my time doing duplicate STF's/PVE's over and over
again. What I have garnered has come from Replay's/Foundry/Sector Alerts/Sector Contacts/
Doff's/Patrol's/Daily's, and so on. Spec. Points come along just fine.
BCW.
We all sat for years and earned millions of those useless DOFF-training points, and we're still prodding along.
I'm a casual player, I don't have neither the need, nor the desire, to endlessly grind. I jumped into the Delta content as soon as I had time after release, because it's new content, new story, it's entertainment (as weird as I may be, I play because I love Trek and want entertainment) - but while said new content was interesting, it immediately became frustrating due to the level gates. Fine, we'll get around it, and all characters save the first one have Delta on hold until they are already level 60.
The above may see out of place talking about specialization points, but they're both tied together. STO went from an end-game where xp were 98% useless for about 4-ish years, to an end-game where xp is required in massive quantities, but most of the end-game content still provides minuscule amounts compared to what is needed, and all those 5 year old characters played the xp-rewarding content years ago mostly.
I realized from the get go that specialization would take me forever. I started on the Delta content when it came out - my main character has finished pilot and 3-4 points were saved for command. If I'm lucky, I might actually have the first primary specialization finished by Christmas - on my main character that is, my other characters ain't even that far yet.
Will there always be people who feel they must grind any new thing fast? Of course, and they should be allowed to do so. But eventually the end-game xp gain ought to be adjusted. Why? Casual players with lifetime subscriptions can save up stipend zen for a T6 ship before they can finish a primary specialization - so it reduces potential zen sale for cryptic. Although, given how long I expect it to take me, I might even suspect that to be intentional...
All in all, it might be an idea for Cryptic to consider how often they want to release new trees, and take a realistic look at how xp rewards could be adjusted.
If they look at groupings and find that increased xp over the board will be useless to the top 5 %, then maybe it's a good idea - if it's 20 %, perhaps another mechanic such as a daily bonus for marks would be more useful - or a third or fourth idea - heck, even something as whacked as a bi-weekly "freebie point" would increase my progression by 50-100 % >_<
The main line is that with the launch of Delta Rising, xp gain and xp need went their separate way, and these two roads have to come together. The alternative is an ever increasing time-gap between new features and metric-proven income.
How will the metrics be interpreted, when command ships don't have their "it's a new fancy toy"-peak when they become available, but 2-12 months later when people finally get their tree filled out? The risk is, that there won't be a peak-sale of new ships of this type, so according to the metrics, making new ships with the "new shiny" effect absent will lead management to exactly what conslusion?
Why full trees?
Maximize everything you can possibly get out of that Specialization.
Make Lv3 ability PADDs of that specialization yourself.
Traits, bonuses for both Space AND Ground gameplay. There are some very nice bonuses as you get further along the Spec Trees for both Ground AND Space.
That's mostly for the Primary Specializations. Then you have the Secondary Specs, i.e. Pilot and Commando. Not as expensive in Spec Points to master, but every Spec Point counts in this age of Nerfs Rising.
Some of us do not want to be still stuck with 5 points only in Intel (and only Intel) when the 3rd Primary Specialization comes around. Maybe you are fine with it, but some of us aren't.
Before all the XP nerfs, this thread subject wouldn't exist. We'd be playing where ever we wanted to play, doing what we wanted to do and get our XPs. But with the nerfs to XPs very shortly after DR released... well... here we are now.
I am aware of the benefits these Spec. Points offer. And if they are a "must have" for folks,
fine. It will be nice if, and when I get there, I just do not feel pressed to do so. If others are,
again, fine. But it seems to me you know full well what your up against. I see no reason to
become surprised/dissatisfied with the process when, by your own admissions, you know its
there.
BCW.
Just as long as you know you're not going to get where we are currently anytime soon
Never had the view that the game was a race to get somewhere. :P
BCW.
Such a competition asks for a level playing field, every competitor is the same. AS long as you can bring a better character into the competition, it will not work. The best PvP event is the winter race. You may say that is only a problem for PvP, no it isn't. PVE does not work well if some players are weaker or stronger than others. The weaker are carried and can be a burden for the group. The stronger ones can solo things. What is the point of playing together if you don't need the other?
Well someone's never done Tour the Galaxy. You should. If you win the "race" you get a trait that lowers the cooldown of transwarp by 20%. It's called Well Travelled.
BCW.
Try playing only ground and see how slow you get it.
If thats where you enjoy the game, great. Myself, I do both space and ground, and it changes
nothing in regards to my view of the Spec. Point question. They acrue as I go. Again, if one
knows the scheme, no reason to disparage (refering to other poster's). It is what it is.
Fortunatley, for myself, I am in no "hurry" while I enjoy myself. Enjoyment is why I log on. The
day that is'nt happening, is the day I move on.
BCW.
...9 out of my 10 characters will be left behind.
...when the new specialization comes out there is no way I'm going to start it. The previous ONE is MAYBE half way through.
That's one of the design decisions I don't like. If you didn't invest enough points to unlock the traits, training, or kits you like switching to the new one makes all your points in the old one effectively vanish. If all the permanent stuff is at the end of the tree you're being punished for not filling it out.
Of the few captains I'm leveling now only two are getting spec points spent because of that. They are nowhere near the point cap so any points spent on a tree they wouldn't use would be wasted.