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Who is "The Other" and why are they helping the Iconians?
jojobevco
Member Posts: 27 Arc User
So, as part of playing Crack in the Mirror, for the Bajor Omega work around, I played through to the end, and was suprised by something that I didn't remember being there last time I played through.
In the conversation with The Prophet, the non-corporeal being says when asked about the Iconians.
So, who's "The Other".
My theories, drawn mostly from the Star Trek Extended Universe.
1. A Q or Q like being, such as Trelaine or the Gorgon or "god who needs a starship" from ST:V
2. A being greater than Q, the Them, as seen in Q and A
In the extended universe, these beings are closely linked to the Iconians. While I understand that STO draws from Canon source material, you have to wonder.
Thoughts?
In the conversation with The Prophet, the non-corporeal being says when asked about the Iconians.
They are the first of many, but they angered their siblings. The Whole was broken.
The Other saved them. The Other will save them again.
So, who's "The Other".
My theories, drawn mostly from the Star Trek Extended Universe.
1. A Q or Q like being, such as Trelaine or the Gorgon or "god who needs a starship" from ST:V
2. A being greater than Q, the Them, as seen in Q and A
In the extended universe, these beings are closely linked to the Iconians. While I understand that STO draws from Canon source material, you have to wonder.
Thoughts?
Post edited by jojobevco on
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Giorgio A. Tsoukalos
The Preservers relocate endangered species. They were reintroduced in STO and dropped a long time ago.
Maybe when Iconia was being bombarded, they saved a few Iconians and relocated them outside the galaxy as part of the Preserver mission to prevent lifeforms from going extinct.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
STO has already ignored many aspects from the books, like the fate of the Borg for example, it is likely that they would do so again.
Also the fate of the Tkon ties into how the Iconians have disrupted the current day galactic powers; the Hobus Supernova. This in turn suggests a pattern that they use for conquering would-be opponents. The Iconians, according to STO's stoyline, are currently in the Andromeda Galaxy, and we know from TOS that at least one species died out because of their home star going supernova. And another; the Kelvans, were seeking a new home because of rising radiation, a likely cause being increased supernovae brought on by the invading Iconians.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
clap. clap. clap.
Still, this feels like the B5 storyline. "The First Ones" return to help stop the coming darkness...
In the case of what you're talking about, I'm -glad- they ignored it. I found the whole thing with the Borg and the Caeliar just... dumb.
The books are no more canon than STO is, though there are times that STO has appropriately drawn from and adapted things from novels, RPG sourcebooks and other source material for use in the game. It all depends on what they can get the rights to, and what CBS approves.
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
My character Tsin'xing
Definite vibes of Babylon 5 coming off in this dialogue. I wonder if we'll meet our equivalent of Lorien sometime soon.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Sounds pretty similar to the First Ones in Babylon 5. who were the first sentient races to travel the stars.
Maybe the Guardian IS our version of Lorien?
My character Tsin'xing
Quite possibly. Now if you'll excuse me I've got to go and practice my "get the hell out of our galaxy" speech....
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
That actually makes a lot of sense. It would hint that the Iconians didn't actually build those Dyson Spheres either. (Which seems to be a technical feat that would put them ridicilously beyond anything the Federation, Klingons or Romulans could pull off, and also would realistically make any need for conquest go away.. If neccessary, just teleport your Dyson Sphere in the middle between a few galaxies - no one is going to find you, and you have plenty space and energy.)
Your link got me watching a couple of tie-in video's of B-5...
One in particular caught my eye...
I watched that entire series twice, and it wasn't till just now that I realized that "Walter White" was a key character in it...
Damn strange coincidence that I discovered this just when they recently announced that Cranston is being wooed for the part of the villain in Star Trek 3/13.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
There is no such thing as "soft canon". That is a term invented by fans (not trek specific) who want to believe that what they like is better/more valuable than what they don't like. The books are non-canon.
That said, many good ideas are found in some of the books. I personally think O is a pathetic idea, basically a mental masturbation from an author who wanted to one up the Q. Nearly as bad as a Mary Sue, and for all the same reasons.
The age differences are a bit meaningless to people I think. They're too big for people to understand.
If the federation is about 250 years old (technically 249, founded 2161 currently 2409/2410), then the iconians fell 1,200 federations ago.
The tkon fell two iconias or 2,400 federations ago.
The voth arrived in the delta quadrant 66.5 iconias ago, or 80,000 federations ago.
The voth left earth 216 iconias ago.
Q and Q began their romance 13,333 iconias ago.
The preservers seeded the galaxy, about the same time the guardian of forever had been asked the last question until kirk/Spock/mccoy spoke to it 15,000 iconias ago, or 69 voths ago or 18 million federations ago. Incidentally this is more than ten time older than the fall of iconia than iconia is older than the federation.
This is about a billion years before amino acids formed on earth.
There's plenty of room for cool beings, without needing to try and one up the Q.
The preservers seeded the galaxy
In other words, the supposed masterminds are actually, dumb brutes. And all the iconians conquest was to prevent the slavers from eating them and/or giving another galaxy-wide telepathic "die" command. So beating them, unleashes something worse.
It'd certainly tie the Cardassian sector block episodes into the main story arc better when they get revamped.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
In sto the writers took the idea not explored in TNG but mentioned in interviews by the writers, that the ancients and the preservers were the same.
From memory alpha:
Ronald D. Moore has stated that he'd considered, but intentionally did not specify, that this species was the Preservers from TOS: "The Paradise Syndrome". He noted, "but this could be them and be internally consistent." (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion)
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Ancient_humanoid
http://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/2up4mh/%CE%B4_spoiler_kahless_is_in_on_it_too/
My character Tsin'xing
No, the guardian said "first of the children". Witch would fit with the prophet saying "they are the first of many, but they angered there siblings. The whole was broken."
Seems to me like "the whole" is referring to the many children.
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
My character Tsin'xing
That makes the iconians even more stagnant than the voth, since the seeding happened over 68 times farther back than the voth left earth.
On the other hand, if they are the first to recover after the slavers eradicated all life, that was only 17 times as far back as the voth leaving earth. Still means it took them a billion years to found their empire, or they lost it multiple times over that billion years. Still better than four billion years.
On the other hand it could be a reference to those who inherited the galaxy after the tkon fell which I find more likely. This also makes a neat tie in to Sargon's race.
The tkon were able to transport worlds and fell 600k years ago from a supernova. Their technology and history does parallel the sto iconians in a few significant ways.
Sargon's race were on the verge of evolving past bodies and wiped themselves out 500k years ago. The iconians reign length is not mentioned, but it ended 300k years ago. They could have been "siblings".
These time spans are far more reasonable than suddenly jumping to a billion.
4,500,000,000 preservers
0,065,000,000 voth
0,000,600,000 tkon
0,000,300,000 iconians
0,000,000,250 federation
Its too big of a gap to have them be the first children of the preservers without some major explanation why they are so primitive, like the voth's doctrine locking them out of scientific progress.
On the pah wraiths, the bajorans knew the prophets for 30,000 years, but the pah wraiths only 10,000ish. That is a limit of what was presented in the show, never stated as starts or ends of anything. And it is clear the prophets are older than that, and the imprisoning of pah wraiths in the fire caves does not necessarily define the date of their split. Sto has pretty much free reign to back date as far as they want.
Sheridan is my favorite TV Scifi Captain but I always thought the speech he never gave that you see him practicing at the end of season 2 would have been his best.