Omega upgrades are broken! Aaaaah!

heckgoblin · February 2015

Promised upgrade chance: 4x

Actual upgrade chance: 2x

BOOOOO!

rodentmaster · February 2015

I noticed the same. I used one on something that had a base 1% chance. It gave me 3% (2% increase). It was very annoying.

And before you ask, NO, I didn't get a quality upgrade. The upgrade system isn't meant to actually upgrade anything. It's just a scam.

heckgoblin · February 2015

This basically means Omega upgrades are completely worthless. It takes a whole gaming session's worth of effort to grind up the sub-components and laboriously craft them into more sub-components, then eventually, painstakingly, the Omega upgrade itself.

In that time, you could earn the dilithium/EC for multiple experimental upgrades, and get better results.

rmy1081 · February 2015

heckgoblin wrote: »

This basically means Omega upgrades are completely worthless. It takes a whole gaming session's worth of effort to grind up the sub-components and laboriously craft them into more sub-components, then eventually, painstakingly, the Omega upgrade itself.

In that time, you could earn the dilithium/EC for multiple experimental upgrades, and get better results.

or it means you should make a thread in the bugs forum....just saying...

heckgoblin · February 2015

rmy1081 wrote: »

or it means you should make a thread in the bugs forum....just saying...

Sorry, I tried, but got an automatic message stating "there are too many bugs here, try complaining somewhere else that someone might actually read some day." Crazy how nature do dat.

rodentmaster · February 2015

They are double the tech points and free of dilithium charge, so not WORTHLESS, really.

Especially when it seems some items got their tech point costs increased in the patch. I was trying to outfit one of my characters with blue XI polarized tetryons (you know, the mission reward that had 10% chance instead of 5%?). I was doing it on a budget, so it was slow, but do-able. Now they want TRIBBLE-tons of technical points to upgrade from mk XII's. They were also talking about tweaking the proc mod on those weapons, so I suspect they didn't want you to upgrade them easily.

With tech point prices being retardedly high on most items (and set items? FORGET it! Don't bother!), these dil-free double-tech-point upgrades have their uses.

heckgoblin · February 2015

Yeah they totally are worthless. They give the same upgrade chance as an experimental, and their only selling point is no dil cost. Except in the time it takes to grind up one Omega upgrade, you can earn the dil for 4 experimentals.

If your goal is quality upgrades, Omegas will actually slow you down and impair your efficiency compared to experimentals.

gulberat · February 2015

I am going to be using them to defray the costs on the most expensive items to upgrade. But then I am ALSO refusing to upgrade past Mk XIV, whatever rarity it lands on. I will not be pressured into putting resources into any upgrade whose outcome is not a 100% guarantee. EVER.

But knowing there is an issue, I will hold off on using them in case they could get a stat bump.

lucho80 · February 2015

The omega upgrades problem I think stems from the devs changing their minds at last minute and forgetting to edit text or function, which has happened before.

If you look up the R&D project text, it states 2x quality/research, but the item itself says 4x. So we'll have to wait and see how they fix this one. Seeing as DR has been one nerf after another, I wouldn't keep my hopes up on that 4x being the right value.

rodentmaster · February 2015

What they should have done was give you an upgrade that boosts quality upgrade chance by 50% for every one you applied, but does the normal 12000 tech points of progress. Or... some way of providing the impossible quality upgrades to a broken upgrade system.

And by broken I mean rip-off 100% intended from the start by the devs to fleece the players.

razar2380 · February 2015

gulberat wrote: »

I am going to be using them to defray the costs on the most expensive items to upgrade. But then I am ALSO refusing to upgrade past Mk XIV, whatever rarity it lands on. I will not be pressured into putting resources into any upgrade whose outcome is not a 100% guarantee. EVER.

But knowing there is an issue, I will hold off on using them in case they could get a stat bump.

The problem with them is that even though it saves Dil, it takes much longer than grinding the Dil and EC. Though, I guess it really depends on the individual.

Personally, I don't want to waste hours grinding for the traces, just to wait 24+ hours for 1-3 upgrades, when I can spend 1-2 hours on one character to grind enough Dil and EC to get multiple superior tech upgrades, and either research, tech, or research accelerators.

And to tell the truth, there is no balance in the upgrade system at all. When you can use 1 superior upgrade, and a 1.5 increase in the tech to level it from MK II to about MK VII with just a little over 1,000 Dil, then need a ridiculous amount of Dil, and superior tech upgrades with the same accelerators just to get from MK VII to MK X, it is just stupid.

I can understand a slight increase in cost from one MK to another. But the huge jumps when you get to the higher MK's that most people will be upgrading is not a smart move. I get wanting to make money, but this is just a sad approach to it. Especially when they are making it cost two items to increase the upgrade slightly. It only needed one.

Two superior tech upgrades is all that should have been needed to upgrade from MK XI to MK XII, and add one more for each upgrade. Needing to use the accelerators to increase it was not a smart move. As well as the extreme cost of Dil.

lored2death · February 2015

Hunh. I am shocked and amazed at yet another broken system and/or misrepresentation about something implemented in STO.

daveyny · February 2015

Makes me feel better that I suk at this mini-game though.

:cool:

trelane87 · February 2015

lucho80 wrote: »

The omega upgrades problem I think stems from the devs changing their minds at last minute and forgetting to edit text or function, which has happened before.

If you look up the R&D project text, it states 2x quality/research, but the item itself says 4x. So we'll have to wait and see how they fix this one. Seeing as DR has been one nerf after another, I wouldn't keep my hopes up on that 4x being the right value.

This looks like either a bug or an oversight, it clearly says in the description that it applies 2 times the amount of TP AND RP as an Experimental upgrade (which should be 4):

http://i.imgur.com/dRFRk6p.png

lordmalak1 · February 2015

I'm surprised anyone would bother unless the upgrade chance was epic, now that I see it's only 2X (even 4X is totally lame) im tossing all my traces. 3^4 X 50 seconds for a 2x upgrade chance is about the biggest timesink I think cryptic has come up with to date.

...thats 3 X 3 X 3 X 3 X 50 seconds a 'game', or 4050 seconds (67.5 minutes) to earn the materials and that doesn't even count crafting time to combine the traces.

LAME, LAME, LAME !.

borticuscryptic · February 2015

Omega Upgrades are currently applying the correct amount of Research (or chance for rarity-up), and it is twice the amount applied by an Experimental Kit. The results you are seeing in the UI appear to be inconsistent because...

** pulls back the curtain **

... Research % is calculated as a ratio, based on the amount of Tech Points being applied.

So, when we created an Upgrade that was both 2x TP and 2x Research, the ratio works out to being the same, resulting in no apparent change in the UI.

Now, having said that, we're going to be checking in a change that increases the Research granted by Omega Upgrade Techs by an additional amount. Probably doubled-again, so that it ends up being closer to the final value reflected in the Tooltips.

If you're specifically hoping to use these Techs to increase the rarity of your items, I might recommend not applying them until that change goes live (hopefully this week). We won't be able to make the change retroactive to kits already applied.

lucho80 · February 2015

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Omega Upgrades are currently applying the correct amount of Research (or chance for rarity-up), and it is twice the amount applied by an Experimental Kit. The results you are seeing in the UI appear to be inconsistent because...

** pulls back the curtain **

... Research % is calculated as a ratio, based on the amount of Tech Points being applied.

So, when we created an Upgrade that was both 2x TP and 2x Research, the ratio works out to being the same, resulting in no apparent change in the UI.

Now, having said that, we're going to be checking in a change that increases the Research granted by Omega Upgrade Techs by an additional amount. Probably doubled-again, so that it ends up being closer to the final value reflected in the Tooltips.

If you're specifically hoping to use these Techs to increase the rarity of your items, I might recommend not applying them until that change goes live (hopefully this week). We won't be able to make the change retroactive to kits already applied.

:eek:Wow! Pleasantly surprised! Not a nerf but a boost! It's an anniversary miracle!:eek:

bergins · February 2015

rodentmaster wrote: »

I noticed the same. I used one on something that had a base 1% chance. It gave me 3% (2% increase). It was very annoying.

And before you ask, NO, I didn't get a quality upgrade. The upgrade system isn't meant to actually upgrade anything. It's just a scam.

I think the real issue STARTS to be cleared up with this observation:

lucho80 wrote: »

If you look up the R&D project text, it states 2x quality/research, but the item itself says 4x. So we'll have to wait and see how they fix this one. Seeing as DR has been one nerf after another, I wouldn't keep my hopes up on that 4x being the right value.

The chance, according to this post is increasing by a multiplier. The OP is expecting, instead of that, a percentage increase. If the upgrade window is rounding the %'s, it's easily explained. If, rather than 1%, it is actually .7%:
.7% x 4= 2.8% which rounds to 3%, exactly what is reported by the OP.

Overall, I agree, not an adequate difference to really make it worth it for that reason alone, but if I'm right, it at least isn't because it is bugged...

Edit: this is what happens when you get distracted, then hit reply without seeing that a Dev has ninja'd you with a better answer....

dragonsbrethren · February 2015

Thanks for clearing that up Borticus. Great news on them being made even better

trelane87 · February 2015

Thanks for the response Bort! Glad to hear it's being looked into

reximuz · February 2015

lordmalak1 wrote: »

I'm surprised anyone would bother unless the upgrade chance was epic, now that I see it's only 2X (even 4X is totally lame) im tossing all my traces. 3^4 X 50 seconds for a 2x upgrade chance is about the biggest timesink I think cryptic has come up with to date.

...thats 3 X 3 X 3 X 3 X 50 seconds a 'game', or 4050 seconds (67.5 minutes) to earn the materials and that doesn't even count crafting time to combine the traces.

LAME, LAME, LAME !.

Mail them to @rexy.

khamseenair · February 2015

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Omega Upgrades are currently applying the correct amount of Research (or chance for rarity-up), and it is twice the amount applied by an Experimental Kit. The results you are seeing in the UI appear to be inconsistent because...

** pulls back the curtain **

... Research % is calculated as a ratio, based on the amount of Tech Points being applied.

So, when we created an Upgrade that was both 2x TP and 2x Research, the ratio works out to being the same, resulting in no apparent change in the UI.

Now, having said that, we're going to be checking in a change that increases the Research granted by Omega Upgrade Techs by an additional amount. Probably doubled-again, so that it ends up being closer to the final value reflected in the Tooltips.

If you're specifically hoping to use these Techs to increase the rarity of your items, I might recommend not applying them until that change goes live (hopefully this week). We won't be able to make the change retroactive to kits already applied.

I have to say, when a game dev tells me that the UI is wrong and the hidden code I can't confirm to be working is in fact applying correctly, I find it akin to a sales assistant telling me that the number on the screen isn't actually what I'm being charged because it just states £10 more because the till uses a different formula to calculate the total...

WYSIWYG

sqwished · February 2015

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Omega Upgrades are currently applying the correct amount of Research (or chance for rarity-up), and it is twice the amount applied by an Experimental Kit. The results you are seeing in the UI appear to be inconsistent because...

** pulls back the curtain **

... Research % is calculated as a ratio, based on the amount of Tech Points being applied.

So, when we created an Upgrade that was both 2x TP and 2x Research, the ratio works out to being the same, resulting in no apparent change in the UI.

Now, having said that, we're going to be checking in a change that increases the Research granted by Omega Upgrade Techs by an additional amount. Probably doubled-again, so that it ends up being closer to the final value reflected in the Tooltips.

If you're specifically hoping to use these Techs to increase the rarity of your items, I might recommend not applying them until that change goes live (hopefully this week). We won't be able to make the change retroactive to kits already applied.

Thanks for clearing this issue up. This is the sort of communication we need to see more of.

tarastheslayer · February 2015

I found an issue with my Honour Guard armour that is Mk XIV UR which doesn't seem to get a percentage increase to the rarity chance regardless of what you apply to it, I mean this might be part of this same issue but I'm not entirely sure, I'm certainly not attempting to do anything with these upgrades until I see that bar move lol :P

Anyway, thanks for the communication Bort, just need to wait and see if this fix changes anything in my issue as well, if not that'll be a shame

.

gulberat · February 2015

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Now, having said that, we're going to be checking in a change that increases the Research granted by Omega Upgrade Techs by an additional amount. Probably doubled-again, so that it ends up being closer to the final value reflected in the Tooltips.

If you're specifically hoping to use these Techs to increase the rarity of your items, I might recommend not applying them until that change goes live (hopefully this week). We won't be able to make the change retroactive to kits already applied.

Thanks for letting us know this.

My gut instincts were telling me the above; it's good that you have confirmed it and I am highlighting it so more people might see.

captaintrueheart · February 2015

borticuscryptic wrote: »

If you're specifically hoping to use these Techs to increase the rarity of your items, I might recommend not applying them until that change goes live (hopefully this week). We won't be able to make the change retroactive to kits already applied.

I'd just like to through out there that you should flash some type of in game message at login stating this, as this is going to be very significant.

I can't imagine how irate people will be when they realize that had they sat on their techs for a few days they'd have their stats improved.

darkjeff · February 2015

khamseenair wrote: »

I have to say, when a game dev tells me that the UI is wrong and the hidden code I can't confirm to be working is in fact applying correctly, I find it akin to a sales assistant telling me that the number on the screen isn't actually what I'm being charged because it just states £10 more because the till uses a different formula to calculate the total...

WYSIWYG

The fact that you think the UI is a better source of information than a dev makes you sound like a new player, yet your account is at least 2 years old. Strange. :rolleyes:

platewearingbird · February 2015

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Omega Upgrades are currently applying the correct amount of Research (or chance for rarity-up), and it is twice the amount applied by an Experimental Kit. The results you are seeing in the UI appear to be inconsistent because...

** pulls back the curtain **

... Research % is calculated as a ratio, based on the amount of Tech Points being applied.

So, when we created an Upgrade that was both 2x TP and 2x Research, the ratio works out to being the same, resulting in no apparent change in the UI.

Now, having said that, we're going to be checking in a change that increases the Research granted by Omega Upgrade Techs by an additional amount. Probably doubled-again, so that it ends up being closer to the final value reflected in the Tooltips.

If you're specifically hoping to use these Techs to increase the rarity of your items, I might recommend not applying them until that change goes live (hopefully this week). We won't be able to make the change retroactive to kits already applied.

Good news, especially since I just set 4 tech jobs on my R&D.

I can hold onto them and get some CRAZY good chances at ultra-epic (already made 1 epic using omega techs).

Best thing of all is I got another 3 or so omega techs of slivers, shards, and frags, so it's time to hoard some techs!!

mhirtesc · February 2015

The only thing that makes an Omega upgrade so unique is that no Dil is required. However, with all the hassle involved in grinding and creating one, I'd be willing to spend a bit of Dil just to make the experience less unpleasant.

rsoblivion · February 2015

Borticus confirmed they are updating the upgrades to 4x RP reward. So hold off using them until patch goes live.

http://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/2ujks9/psa_omega_particle_tech_upgrades_not_appearing_to/

Omega upgrades are broken! Aaaaah!

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