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ESD and Academy Lag

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    davideightdavideight Member Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Thank you for the reports everyone.

    We are aware of the lag/rubberbanding in the social zones like ESD, New Romulus, etc. and this is expected to fully clear up in 2-3 days but you should see improvement shortly as people complete their patching and log in for the first time post patch.

    We'll be monitoring this over the next few days.



    in 2-3days lags will clear up cause 30% of the people are done with the daily mission cause of lobi investments. ,-)

    hes not lying, hes just having a different approach.

    the lags are caused by the many players any event brings in.


    second: the lagspikes in zones can be pacth related, cause many players have on demand patching enabled, so they patch everything in pieces when they arrive on a map. this loads these clusters with immense data throughput until everyone is finished logging in.



    the only problem i have is, that there is basically no social zone this time that is lagfree cause they spread the event to all known social zones ;-)



    but i must admitt, just waiting 3days is not "fixing" the problem lovely devs, its "waiting until it fixes itself" by more and more players either compelting the mission or logging out frustrated.
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    czertik123czertik123 Member Posts: 1,122 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    We know what is causing it and we know that it will be fully cleared up in 2-3 days. You may start seeing improvement even before that. There is a system that is working through a quick change when you first log in post patch. With the high number of logins the first day or two it is causing that lag just in the social zones.

    So you are saying it not harware related but poor coding related ?
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    m1957flaxm1957flax Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    We can guess a lot, but we don't know their software. Even if we would know, most people would not know what to do about it.
    Nevertheless, this explanations don't sound reasonable at all.

    I just hope, you're right. If not, well I guess hell will break out latest in 3 days, when the smoke is NOT clearing up.
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    otowiotowi Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    m1957flax wrote: »
    We can guess a lot, but we don't know their software. Even if we would know, most people would not know what to do about it.
    Nevertheless, this explanations don't sound reasonable at all.

    I just hope, you're right. If not, well I guess hell will break out latest in 3 days, when the smoke is NOT clearing up.

    Exactly..

    We can hope, but I think the explanation is rather thin, and sounds more like trying to deflect the issue at hand IMHO..
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    lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited January 2015
    We know what is causing it and we know that it will be fully cleared up in 2-3 days. You may start seeing improvement even before that. There is a system that is working through a quick change when you first log in post patch. With the high number of logins the first day or two it is causing that lag just in the social zones.

    ESD is a mess. I can barely walk in there. And the daily mission for omega particles is bugged (doesn't register completion for space ESD).
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    czertik123czertik123 Member Posts: 1,122 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    davideight wrote: »
    second: the lagspikes in zones can be pacth related, cause many players have on demand patching enabled, so they patch everything in pieces when they arrive on a map. this loads these clusters with immense data throughput until everyone is finished logging in.

    well, why not all patch are dowloanded/instaled before game starts ? these small 10s delays will not kill anyone, and will help to reduce lags.
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    crusader2007crusader2007 Member Posts: 1,820 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I guess this weekend is a wash and better NOT play STO :D

    What a way to market a new Anniversary! BEST ever.

    How come rather than to cramp ALL the updates/changes now why not BEFORE?

    Most were ready in tribble weeks before. Thats what happens when they want to overdeliver...and just CANT deliver ALL at once...please learn the lesson ;)
    DUwNP.gif

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    tweihtweih Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    We know what is causing it and we know that it will be fully cleared up in 2-3 days. You may start seeing improvement even before that. There is a system that is working through a quick change when you first log in post patch. With the high number of logins the first day or two it is causing that lag just in the social zones.

    How about you just give us the ship for free since yall can get the mini game to work right at all. Either you dont get to play the game at all or you cant get the credit for playing the game or you cant even scan to start the game and its not from the lag its just bad programing.
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    doubleohninedoubleohnine Member Posts: 818 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    g0del wrote: »
    Let me guess - when you first log in, a script has to run to convert all your boffs from the old-style (4 ground and 4 space skills) to the new style (as many skills as you care to learn)? Because I could see that causing some real database slowdowns, which would affect all sorts of other systems. If that's it, it will probably be over as soon as the majority of players have logged in at least once, i.e. in 2-3 days once the weekend is over.

    That makes sense. Im over here in Tennessee, with 6 mb DSL. I just logged in on my main, and started completing R&D tasks and a few boff assignments. Nothing happened. I called up Azura, bought 2 new boffs, dismissed a few, still nothing happened. And by nothing happened, I mean no new "Whats New" popups like we usually get when new systems are introduced. I saw the icons change. I warp over to ESD, beam onto the transporter pad, and move my character up a few steps toward the railing, and leave him there while I go finish making my breakfast. I come back about 5 min later, and he's been automatically BACKED UP back standing on the transporter pad. I was like WTF. I started running toward the center of the zone, and every 2 steps was a step BACKWARDS. Others trying to run alongside me were doing the same, like we were stuck in some sort of timewarp. I was like, Im outta here, aint got time for this TRIBBLE. That whole time, never a "whats new" popup.

    And Im guessing I need to finish the main Delta storyline before I play the new Featured Episode anyways, right? My main is only halfway through level 57 JUST NOW, because the grind has really dampened my desire to rank up even ONE toon to see the story Im here to enjoy play out. :rolleyes:

    ::Goes back to playing Grand Theft Auto V Online::
    STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
    Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
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    mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    your such a liar, that rubber banding is not going to clear itself up. are you that TRIBBLE, that you cant even figure that out?

    This has to be the rudest response to a dev I've ever seen. Not only are you insulting him but you are insulting the rest of us by pretending to represent our opinion.

    If there is a lack of communication on Cryptic's part this is the cause. As long as our comments run along these lines we simply don't deserve communication. 2 year old's don't deserve any better information than "it will be done when it's done" and neither do you.
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    comtedeloach2comtedeloach2 Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    jasonl21 wrote: »
    Seriously do you have to be so frickin rude and offensive to one group of society? :mad:

    Not buying that "game developer" is group of society..
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    bloodviper4bloodviper4 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I seriously cannot play the game at all, I am falling through esd on all my toons , getting flung into walls. some of my ships are barely moving. but its supposed to clear up when others log in????????
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    azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Yeah this is truly unbearbale. Do whatever you need to do. Shut down the game... roll back the patch... I don't care. This is ridiculous.
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    jhderojas77jhderojas77 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Happy lag aniversary!

    Everything Q will give you it's for this lag party time :)

    It seems to be some server lag not related with clients, so we can only be patients. They must resolve it.
    --
    Quehousi@Tuti
    Admiral - Lusitania (Excelsior class)

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    thedoctorblueboxthedoctorbluebox Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    davideight wrote: »
    but i must admitt, just waiting 3days is not "fixing" the problem lovely devs, its "waiting until it fixes itself" by more and more players either compelting the mission or logging out frustrated.

    This is the way I see it, they are waiting for it to "fix itself" over the course of time, rather than fix it themselves.
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    doubleohninedoubleohnine Member Posts: 818 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I guess this weekend is a wash and better NOT play STO :D

    What a way to market a new Anniversary! BEST ever.

    How come rather than to cramp ALL the updates/changes they did not do those ahead of time? Most were ready in tribble weeks before. Thats what happens when they want to over deliver...and just CANT deliver ALL at once...please learn the lesson ;)

    Seriously. Massive system changes should come out 2 weeks BEFORE content updates. Everyone comes back for the content. It causes lag EVERY DAMN TIME Ive been here since Dec 2010. If we all need to log in and sit a few minutes while the systems sweep over our accounts and change things, tell us on social media to log in 1-2 weeks early and let those changes happen THEN. Let us all tinker around with it, those of us who will heed the warnings, and that will knock out a lot of people that wont contribute to the lag when the big group of content players show up.

    And not just announce on Social Media. Ive SAID FOR years THAT STO needs an IN GAME news reporter! It wouldnt be that hard for a dev to jump in and make a foundry mission that just has us going to a random Foundry bridge, go to our captain's ready room, and sit and read a dialogue only popup that talks about upcoming changes to STO. You spotlight the mission, or make some popup banner that tells us to go play it, so that you cover ALL aspects of announcing new stuff in game and social media, those who miss all those ways of announcing aint showing up week 1 of a new content release anyways. You could make the foundry news reporter character based off an actual dev in look and name, just for the fun of it. Its not that hard people. After 5 effing years, I expect more progress from the team, not tripping over the same TRIBBLE every time something new comes out.
    STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
    Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
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    mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    You guys do realize that all you have to do is LEAVE ESD....but you'd rather stand around there and commiserate with each other and make it worse than it is.
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    strous1strous1 Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Its bad. 2 days and 2 patches and take 5 minutes to walk to Q from the transporter. That's after rubber banding 60 to 70 times. They can keep there ship and sit on it. No more grinding for anything till they fix the F U B A R ...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    PnP Red Box DM & Player (74 - ?). NWN + SoU + HotU (4-03),
    NWN Diamond Edition, Neverwinter Nights Complete (NWN + NWN2).
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    thedoctorblueboxthedoctorbluebox Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    You guys do realize that all you have to do is LEAVE ESD....but you'd rather stand around there and commiserate with each other and make it worse than it is.

    It is in other places beside ESD. I experienced it each place I went to do my Omega Particle daily, and even in sector space. It is not limited to ESD, it is all over the game.
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    daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This is the way I see it, they are waiting for it to "fix itself" over the course of time, rather than fix it themselves.

    What if They fiddle with it and make it worse, I'd rather wait a day or two and see if Their explanation pans out.

    If not, THEN I'll lite my torch and get the pitchfork out of the shed.

    :cool:
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
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    mjarbarmjarbar Member Posts: 2,084 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Don't bother leaving ESD!

    Sol system, Defra, Fleet mine and Fleet Starbase also have lag and rubber banding so I don't think it's just social zones as fleet zones tend to be as much used as mission maps. :(
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    siobhanphoenixsiobhanphoenix Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Make sure those patches are in the pre-startup patch instead.

    Also I understand database updates being an issue, I've dealt with that before - it makes some sense.

    This obviously isn't network traffic related but there is a cascading bottleneck somewhere, and these things can be alleviated by "medication" - like biological systems (the body), everything effects other things, so your database, you use middleware, you also tune your network memory parameters, and it sounds like you have a disk throughput issue on the database server (not sure which db you are using, but storage parameters regarding block size, etc. if you're using Oracle can make a huge difference. I think you guys might want to start thinking about BigData/NoSQL servers, as well for some tasks...

    just saying.

    I think there is a lot of antagonizing between both us and the dev/production team, and that's unfortunate. I have been where you guys are, and you probably couldn't afford my services ;) - but I do think that in the gaming world, there is a corporate propensity to cut corners, and it's not development's fault, but the level of skill involved on a server level is usually higher than the expertise available, and that sucks. It's just that some of us are indeed paid customers (you can see the history of purchases and I am a lifetime member, so I have pumped a lot of real money into this game), I think we're owed a bit more in terms of playability. It's easy to write off FtP members, but when we are paying for a service, we do expect that service to perform.

    Again, I don't expect these issues to fix themselves... when there are things that can actually be done to make them more streamlined so bottlenecks don't cascade as easily.

    I hope this is all fixed before I go back to work full time, because then I won't have as much time to grind for Q-mendations, and I'd like the Kobali ship... I think you guys are best returning to prior year's anniversary ship method... if you're around for the 14 days you get a free ship... like my Dyson Destroyer - I liked it so much that I did buy the set from the Z-store. Now my Dyson Warbird is horked too, so I hope you guys fix that soon, because I had just gotten a decent build on it.
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    mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mjarbar wrote: »
    Don't bother leaving ESD!

    Sol system, Defra, Fleet mine and Fleet Starbase also have lag and rubber banding so I don't think it's just social zones as fleet zones tend to be as much used as mission maps. :(

    I've been to all those places and it was fine for me...granted I'm not in a 500 man fleet either. Point is there is plenty of places to go and things to do (dust to dust for instance?) without going ape*^%& on a dev when they tell you it will be 2-3 days.

    It's not like they aren't doing the best they can. You think you are upset? Imagine actually putting in the hard work for this patch and getting nothing but grief over it.
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    m1957flax wrote: »
    We can guess a lot, but we don't know their software. Even if we would know, most people would not know what to do about it.
    Nevertheless, this explanations don't sound reasonable at all.

    I just hope, you're right. If not, well I guess hell will break out latest in 3 days, when the smoke is NOT clearing up.

    Actually, it is starting to make sense to me.

    As usual, special events cause a lot of people to log back into the game that don't log in that often. So there is generally a higher player count now than a few days ago. In addition, this event comes with a big patch - and it features content that is focused on the social zones.
    The game has on-demand patching - but who sends you the patch data? Most likely whatever server is also responsible for handling the instance you're in. So today, it's particularly bad.

    Normally, it may not be quite as bad because even though there is more traffic, there is also content that funnels that traffic elsewhere, often into mission or queued event instances with lower player loads.

    There may be additional problems (the mini-game may require more resources from the social zones than usual), but I could see as a higher percentage of people doesn't need to be served with the on-demand patch data, the things will improve with time.

    Still makes one wonder if there isn't a way to reserve more servers for the social zone instances, or lower population caps (or whatever dials they may have to control the server load selectively).
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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    philfixitphilfixit Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I didn't have this stupid lag till the 5 year birthday bash came along since then it sucks..... please please take the birthday bash off and put it back to pree Thursday down loads. then it will be fixed.

    Seeing tonight there is only an average of 28 on each star base,and non a full. I recon that its a bigger issue then they wont us to believe.


    Why keep pn trying to change them . just improve what you have. I love the game but I wont be on over the weekend at all. I was going to get a few extra items by getting zen but .that aint gonna happen till they ( the powers that run this game) can get it running with some quality game time . with out stupid faults all the time.

    Lord monty
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    m1957flaxm1957flax Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Actually, it is starting to make sense to me.

    I am afraid, for me it's the same.

    To me it seems, that they saw it coming and that that was the reason for the prepatch they forced upon us. Nevertheless, that didn't work apparantly. So it makes me wonder: did they really see it coming and they did not do enough to clear it up ahead?

    I feel bad, if that idea comes out to be true.

    BTW I instructed my loader to patch completely - no on-demand patching for me.
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    mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This is unbearable. It took nearly 5 minutes just to move from the Exchange to the Shipyard on ESD.

    The event needs to be extended by the number of days it takes them to fix this, because I'm not even going to participate in Q's daily with this kind of lag, but I really want to!

    What I find strange is that the launch for DR was so smooth from a server stability standpoint. Maybe the issues just weren't noticeable because players were spread out more? The Anniversary is concentrating people in only a couple of locations due to the event.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
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    betayuyabetayuya Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    someone made a ESD vid with Benny Hill sound clip on it yesterday ... lol
    eywdK7c.jpg
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    siobhanphoenixsiobhanphoenix Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    If it is indeed on-demand patching - then that's an issue - they would have to roll out a server patch that redirects the request for on-demand patching to another server. (If they don't do this already).

    Since I am fine in low population zones, I don't think this is network traffic related, it could be as mentioned before memory usage per connection in high population zones. That's not entirely a coding problem either...

    Games like this use a combination of UDP and TCP (chat and streamed info like log info and combat info are usually streamed ... TCP, location data a lot of times is UDP (I haven't really checked what traffic is what, I could easily tcpdump my network for that information, not sure it would help me though, almost a waste of time, when that's what I do daily troubleshooting stuff at work, I play this game when I don't HAVE to work LOL.

    I don;t think this is entirely a development issue (the Dyson Warbird issue might be though) .... keep in mind game devs aren't usually low level coders, they don't write the server code, the engine is usually bought elsewhere, they don't have a lot of control over a lot of it... but they do have control over OS parameters that could eliminate some of the bottleneck. Things like disk write block size, swap (or less allowing to swap), higer availability, Quality of Service, etc. can make a huge difference, even if not thought about.

    It's important to look at things like this holistically... it might be hard to spot sometimes... but I made a career out of covering up bad network coding (again, not dev problem, it's the server engine, which a lot of times is 3rd party) with good server tuning :)
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    archer7809archer7809 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This is unbearable. It took nearly 5 minutes just to move from the Exchange to the Shipyard on ESD.

    The event needs to be extended by the number of days it takes them to fix this, because I'm not even going to participate in Q's daily with this kind of lag, but I really want to!

    What I find strange is that the launch for DR was so smooth from a server stability standpoint. Maybe the issues just weren't noticeable because players were spread out more? The Anniversary is concentrating people in only a couple of locations due to the event.


    There is nothing that can be done to "fix" this. It is a bandwidth issue. The games servers only have so much bandwidth and it is being overtaxed with patch downloads and the sheer volume of people online. Bandwidth costs money, and this game probably doesn't generate enough money to budget for an amount of bandwidth to accommodate the present need/demand.

    When everyone is finished patching it will free that bandwidth to handle the population as best it can. My guess is that should be enough, but they may not even be paying for an amount of bandwidth to service the present login traffic.

    Since I am unwilling to endure these conditions, I will not be playing until next week or until there is an all clear.
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