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Chain of command on a starship

makocallowaymakocalloway Member Posts: 455 Arc User
So I need a little help on my fan fic / foundry authoring. I'm trying to establish what the chain of command is on a star ship. Memory Alpha is a bit vague on the subject. TNG had the chain as the Captain, XO, then whoever is in charge of Ops department I believe, since Data was Ops and the third officer. Can anyone reference anything past that? Head of Science? Chief Engineer? Tactical officer?
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    iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    So I need a little help on my fan fic / foundry authoring. I'm trying to establish what the chain of command is on a star ship. Memory Alpha is a bit vague on the subject. TNG had the chain as the Captain, XO, then whoever is in charge of Ops department I believe, since Data was Ops and the third officer. Can anyone reference anything past that? Head of Science? Chief Engineer? Tactical officer?

    Scotty was often put in charge of the Enterprise when Kirk and Spock were on away teams.

    It's difficult to reconcile chain of command when the chain of command differed from series to series.

    DS9 had a dedicated Chief Science Officer (Jadzia), but Voyager and the Enterprise-D/E used Ops for their Science Officer. While DS9's Ops position was held by Miles O'Brien.

    If I were to use my headcanon, the Chain of Command actually goes through that individual ship or station, using rank, rather than what positions are filled. And also possibly bypassing rank entirely if certain individuals are naturally more dependable for their leadership capabilities. For instance, while Miles O'Brien was a NCO (Chief Petty Officer), he was often deferred to by the other officers due to his particular experience and veteran status.

    Similarly, Beverly Crusher was working on her leadership skills by taking the night watch from time to time, which despite being the CMO she might be better to defer to in the Chain of Command than say... someone like Julian Bashir or McCoy, who had very little active interest in leading.
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    makocallowaymakocalloway Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Huh, good points. Guess I'll have to wing it. Thanks.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,326 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    So I need a little help on my fan fic / foundry authoring. I'm trying to establish what the chain of command is on a star ship. Memory Alpha is a bit vague on the subject. TNG had the chain as the Captain, XO, then whoever is in charge of Ops department I believe, since Data was Ops and the third officer. Can anyone reference anything past that? Head of Science? Chief Engineer? Tactical officer?

    Starship Chain of Command is usually as follows:

    Commanding Officer - On starships, the CO usually have the rank of captain, though sometimes a commodore or fleet captain may have also held this position.

    First Officer - Aboard a starship the first officer was the second-in-command, just below the captain. On a Federation starship, the first officer had the following functions:

    • Serve as the principal adviser to the captain
    • Implementing the captain's orders
    • Preparing and issuing duty rosters
    • Commanding the vessel in the event of the captain's absence, incapacitation or death
    • Working with the chief medical officer or counselor on crew evaluations

    Second Officer - Assumes command of the ship when both the captain and first officer are unavailable. It is common for a second officer on a Starfleet vessel to hold the rank of commander or lieutenant commander. It is common for a second officer to be a department head aboard the ship first, since the role of second officer is considered a nominal position.

    Third Officer - Fourth in line of command of the vessel after the captain, first officer, and second officer. In Starfleet, the position is generally filled by a lieutenant commander or lieutenant. The security chief, tactical officer, or chief engineer is sometimes given this position. As with the position of second officer, the third officer's main duties are as a department head.

    Additionally, the Starfleet bridge officer examination was a series of tests for Starfleet officers who wished to be able to take command, besides the command officers such as captain, first officer, second officer, and third officer.
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    sentinel64sentinel64 Member Posts: 900 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The only hard fast rule in command are...

    Captain (you) (and in the case of STO this can also be a Flag Officer aka Admirals and Generals)

    Executive Officer (whomever you consider to be the deputy to the Captain

    Then the chain goes down by rank and seniority. If the next senior officer is your Engineering Officer or Science Officer then this person will command in the absence of the Captain and XO.

    Of course, Star Trek TNG added the "Bridge Officer Test"; no one who failed the test could serve as a command officer on the bridge of a starship except in emergency situations [Memory Alpha]

    Basically, you decide who is command certified and those are your remaining chain of command. I made all my command officers Commanders since this will make them senior to any officer not able to take command.
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    blazeritterblazeritter Member Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Trying to base a realistic chain of command on Star Trek I think is going to be problematic. According to real naval officer friends of mine, "Starfleet would be the worst run military organization in history," and I tend to believe them. Star Trek was pretty much always a series based around a ship, not an empire or genuine military (you rarely saw the hero ship interact with anyone else from the empire), and things changed based on plot of the week needs.

    That said, there are some places I think you can look to for inspiration. In the episode where Q was Picard's "angel," Picard had a conversation with Riker and Troi. He was a science officer, and explicitly mentioned several other departments that "might lead to a command." Then, in a later season episode, Troi ended up getting promoted to Commander, and they talked a bit about what command needed.

    These lead me to believe that there's a core, standard chain of departments that lead to actual ship command. People from these departments tend to comprise the official command structure, despite other ship members potentially outranking them.

    In that episode where Troi was promoted, it was stated that she officially needed to do additional training outside of her job to be considered for any level of ship command, and when she passed she was stated as officially being Data's superior officer (it was at least hinted and maybe stated that Crusher also was), yet they didn't make any notion of changing the chain of command of the ship.

    This makes me think that official command positions come primarily from only certain branches of service - and sciences/medical don't seem to be well represented except in very specialized or desperate circumstances. I'd imagine the official third and fourth officers come from the most senior and/or crucial of those particular branches to the ship's operations.

    A ship more specialized towards combat would draw more heavily on Tactical senior officers (hence Worf in charge of the Defiant a lot once he came in), whereas a primarily exploration would draw more on Operations (like Data on the Enterprise-D) or Engineering since those are more directly connected to accomplishing the overall mission.

    There's a lot of guesswork in there, though.
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    nickodaemusnickodaemus Member Posts: 711 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Also consider this - Officers with the same rank who are in charge of more personnel are generally considered to have more seniority than their peers who command fewer personnel because of the greater responsibility. Operations typically has more people in it than a more specialized function of the organization - ship, base, whatever.

    Good luck with your writing.
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    mthomps016mthomps016 Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Here's a bit of Real Life based 'Chrome' talk to think about. First, take a look at the US Navy Regulations Chapter 10 , Section 4. It starts on page 17 of this document: http://doni.daps.dla.mil/US%20Navy%20Regulations/Chapter%2010%20-%20Precedence,%20Authority%20and%20Command.pdf

    Generally, after the Captain and First Officer, it would go to the line department heads. From what we've seen the senior one could be the Engineer (LCDR Montgomery Scott), Operations Officer (LCDR Data), Science Officer (LT/LCDR Jadzia Dax), or Tactical Officer (LT/LCDR Tuvok). It could be what ever department head the Captain feels most comfortable with backing them up.

    Generally, I'd think it would be Operations, Engineering, and Tactical as the most likely to hold the spot. Security Officers would depend on how likely they are to have survived. Science Officers would be uncommon, but not unknown. Medical would be unlikely due to tradition from humans that has medical functions as noncombatants, and thus unlikely to have the training or desire for command.
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    warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Huh, good points. Guess I'll have to wing it. Thanks.

    For Star Trek, of course we all know the CO then XO are the top 2 (doesn't have to be a rank specifically of "Captain" because a Commander can be the CO/"Captain" of a smaller vessel. In that case, a LtCdr would be the XO/First Officer).

    In generic U.S. military terms, the department/division heads would be the next in line and it would go to the senior one of those.
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    horridpersonhorridperson Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The hierarchy within a ship's company has always been a strange beast. I always thought they chose naval titles that flavored the space ships like sea going vessels. It explains the lack of enlisted personnel compared to the presence commissioned members (officers) on the ship; An able or leading spaceman would sound pretty silly.

    A CO is ultimately responsible for his or her ship. The XO is actually charged with her crew. Departments are overseen by heads of departments (HODS) officers, but are run practically by chiefs of departments (CHODS).

    Who is next in line in the CoC should the ship be without CO and XO would probably be at the discretion of the Captain, likely to be known standing order in the event of an mishap. The 3rd would be a senior officer but the decision would likely be influenced by the purpose of the vessel under command. A cruiser like a Galaxy would be more likely to have an ops or engineering officer as an alternate while a warship like the defiant might favor a tactical officer.

    A role I thought worth commenting on is the ship's counselor. According to memory alpha they are senior medical officers who get to wear civvies if the captain is into it. I would have thought they would function more like a padre/ chaplain in contemporary armed forces. The real world padre has a effective commission (Lt. or Cpt) while not formally within the chain of command. Their unique position is supposed to make them more approachable; It works better than snappy clothes.
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    warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I think there was 1 episode in TNG where Counselor Troi was actually in charge of the Enterprise due to a crisis. I'm sure that looked great for her fitness reports.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,326 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    I think there was 1 episode in TNG where Counselor Troi was actually in charge of the Enterprise due to a crisis. I'm sure that looked great for her fitness reports.

    Yes, TNG S5,Ep5 "Disaster". Troi was the ranking officer on the bridge (at the time, LCDR) after the only command officer on the bridge, LT Munroe, had been killed in the accident. It was this event which prompted her to take the Starfleet bridge officer's test.
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    ladymyajhaladymyajha Member Posts: 1,427 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    So I need a little help on my fan fic / foundry authoring. I'm trying to establish what the chain of command is on a star ship. Memory Alpha is a bit vague on the subject. TNG had the chain as the Captain, XO, then whoever is in charge of Ops department I believe, since Data was Ops and the third officer. Can anyone reference anything past that? Head of Science? Chief Engineer? Tactical officer?

    If I was going to say if it's based off of US Navy... then it's CO/XO then based on the rank and time in rank of the next person and so on and so on.

    But to muddle it up a bit the US Navy has Command Duty Officers (or CDOs) who are in charge of certain aspects of the ship (like the bridge and such) to a certain degree. So often when you see a officer just sitting on the bridge that may be because at that particular moment they are "on duty" as the CDO and in charge of the bridge.

    Then you may also have to take into account positional authority. So your Medical Officer may actually by time in rank outrank your XO, but by position your XO is in charge of your Medical Officer (this is also having to do with things like Line Officer vs a support or non-line officer)

    The Soviet Navy (and some others) muddle this positional authority even up more with at times your Engineering officer outranking your CO.

    Now if you really want to make it crazy, add in embarked personnel to the mix, and then you need to worry about missions and such.
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    leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Also keep in mind ship's doctor acts as arbiter of chain of command (and counselor may as well) because a doctor can declare any officer psychologically or physically unfit and remove them immediately (albeit their actions may be subject to external review). The computer will allow a ship's Doctor to strip the XO of command.

    In TOS, the Doctor was considered a trained psychologist. In TNG on, well... I think it came down to societal views on psychology.

    Something often forgotten, mind you, is that ships have multiple shifts, multiple doctors, and sometimes multiple CMOs by shift.

    So you have, for example, Doctor M'Benga who was McCoy's relief aboard the Enterprise. He's one of the people I'd say was part of the forgotten bridge crew. He appeared in multiple episodes. He was McCoy's second (like Ogawa would later be on TNG -- only the TOS Enterprise had a full staff of M.D.s). In THEORY based on what I've seen, even M'Benga's position would be vital because he'd likely have the ability to declare McCoy unfit, assume his post, and then declare everyone else unfit. Ship's doctor is arguably one of the most powerful on the ship and this gets lost largely because, from TNG on, the captains really became experts at disarming their doctor.
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    ladymyajhaladymyajha Member Posts: 1,427 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Also keep in mind ship's doctor acts as arbiter of chain of command (and counselor may as well) because a doctor can declare any officer psychologically or physically unfit and remove them immediately (albeit their actions may be subject to external review). The computer will allow a ship's Doctor to strip the XO of command.

    In TOS, the Doctor was considered a trained psychologist. In TNG on, well... I think it came down to societal views on psychology.

    Something often forgotten, mind you, is that ships have multiple shifts, multiple doctors, and sometimes multiple CMOs by shift.

    So you have, for example, Doctor M'Benga who was McCoy's relief aboard the Enterprise. He's one of the people I'd say was part of the forgotten bridge crew. He appeared in multiple episodes. He was McCoy's second (like Ogawa would later be on TNG -- only the TOS Enterprise had a full staff of M.D.s). In THEORY based on what I've seen, even M'Benga's position would be vital because he'd likely have the ability to declare McCoy unfit, assume his post, and then declare everyone else unfit. Ship's doctor is arguably one of the most powerful on the ship and this gets lost largely because, from TNG on, the captains really became experts at disarming their doctor.

    Right, and we've seen in Star Trek were the XO had the ability to strip the Captain of his command, following a hearing (Spock does it with Kirk with at least one point). Which is kind of interesting (and Star Trek showed the dynamic) where Spock starts the hearing, and Kirk (how admittedly is "troubled") charges Spock with Mutiny.

    There's also the Star Trek thing where Kirk in the movies gets busted back down to Captain, and is technically of a lesser rank then Spock at that moment, but continues to be in charge of the Enterprise.
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    leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    ladymyajha wrote: »
    Right, and we've seen in Star Trek were the XO had the ability to strip the Captain of his command, following a hearing (Spock does it with Kirk with at least one point). Which is kind of interesting (and Star Trek showed the dynamic) where Spock starts the hearing, and Kirk (how admittedly is "troubled") charges Spock with Mutiny.

    There's also the Star Trek thing where Kirk in the movies gets busted back down to Captain, and is technically of a lesser rank then Spock at that moment, but continues to be in charge of the Enterprise.

    Spock was also Captain rank.

    And as an interesting bit of trivia, Kirk was only the actual permanent CO of the Enterprise in the films from the end of 4 through 6.

    He temporarily took command from Decker (rather childishly) in TMP. Immediately after, Starfleet opted to give Spock command. Spock was the official commanding officer in WoK with Kirk more or less seizing temporary control (although I'm not sure he was ever officially commander). Spock died. Kirk wasn't given command. Kirk stole the Enterprise. The Enterprise got destroyed. Kirk stole a Bird of Prey and Spock was compromised.

    The end of 4 is the first time Starfleet recognized him as permanent commander since the end of the 5 year mission. And for 5 and 6, Kirk and Spock had equal rank but Kirk was the commanding officer.

    (Although the irony I suppose is that Kirk loses control of his ship in 5 and is arrested in 6, making Spock acting XO.)

    Star Trek 2009 has Kirk become acting captain.

    Into Darkness is actually the only Star Trek film (for any version of Kirk) where, for the bulk of the movie, Kirk's regular assignment is Enterprise Captain and he retains command for the bulk of the film. Except... In Into Darkness, Kirk does actually get demoted to first officer very briefly.

    So... Actually, come to think of it, there has actually never been a Star Trek movie where Kirk is the designated captain, he does not seize command from someone else who's been appointed captain, and where he does not lose command (either by mutiny or demotion) at any point in the film.
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    nileight1nileight1 Member Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Data was 2nd officer.
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    kharliskharlis Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    So I need a little help on my fan fic / foundry authoring. I'm trying to establish what the chain of command is on a star ship. Memory Alpha is a bit vague on the subject. TNG had the chain as the Captain, XO, then whoever is in charge of Ops department I believe, since Data was Ops and the third officer. Can anyone reference anything past that? Head of Science? Chief Engineer? Tactical officer?

    You have a pretty good start. Personally I would select the higher ranked officer between the Chief Operations Officer and Chief Tactical Officer behind the XO. If their rank is equal I would lean toward Ops over Tactical. This of course assumes that the Chief Science Officer does not outrank them. Only in extreme circumstances would I want the Chief Engineer or Chief Medical Officer in charge. When the ordinance starts flying, do you really want either of them ordering attack patterns over damage control or triage?

    Generally mine goes like this (all other things being equal):
    CO>XO>OPO>CTO>CSO. After that is goes to the highest ranked surviving line officer.

    The thing with Kirk and Spock regarding command of the Enterprise after Kirk was busted was due two things. First, they were of the same rank but Kirk was the senior officer because he had been promoted to the rank of Captain before Spock was. The second and more important thing was that while Spock was the official commander of the Enterprise, he deferred to Kirk and offered him the chair a). out of respect for Kirk's higher rank, b). he knew Kirk REALLY wanted to be back in that chair c) out of friendship.
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    lawstanzlawstanz Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Chain of command would run...

    Captain
    |
    v

    Executive Officer
    |
    v

    A line of officers with command precedent based on certification and billet, which does NOT necessarily correspond to rank or department.

    There is a bridge officer certification test that an officer has to take and pass prior to being able to assume command. Some department heads or other officers take this test and are certified, but some don't. Of those who are certified an order of precedence would be established by the CO and XO, probably based largely rank and maybe other duties (I would think a Conn. officer might be given precedence over the chief medical officer for the simple fact of distance to the bridge and duties during a crisis).

    Date was second officer because he had been certified and was billeted as second officer. It was not a function of also being Ops and Chief Science Officer. Those just happened to be other billets he was assigned.

    Geordie as a Lt.Jg. assumed command while Conn. officer even over higher ranked officers (the Lt. Chief Engineer) because that was his billet (3rd officer presumably).

    Troy, even as a Lt.Cmd., was was behind Lt. Munroe, but was ahead of Ro as neither was presumably command certified.

    Also, Crusher was certified and took duty shifts on the bridge but Pulaski wasn't.

    On the topic of chief medical officers. While Doctors could and did declare captins unfit for duty, it wasn't something that was done lightly. If memory serves the XO had to concur and any time it was done it would be reviewed by Starfleet command. If the Dr.'s actions weren't found to be correct, it would be mutiny with all the punishments that would carry.
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,365 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Spock was also Captain rank.

    And as an interesting bit of trivia, Kirk was only the actual permanent CO of the Enterprise in the films from the end of 4 through 6.

    He temporarily took command from Decker (rather childishly) in TMP. Immediately after, Starfleet opted to give Spock command.
    First point: When Kirk was demoted by the court martial to captain, Spock did in fact outrank him, because Kirk's time in grade started over again at the moment of demotion. Spock, on the other hand, had apparently been a Captain since sometime after TMP, so had far more time in grade at that point than Kirk. However, it was also part of the board's decision that Kirk be placed in command of the new Enterprise (which apparently had been originally constructed as a replacement for the Yorktown, but was hastily rebranded - this also makes a nice shout-out to Roddenberry's original pitch for Trek back in the day, in which the starship was to be named SS Yorktown).

    Second, Spock didn't get command from Kirk "immediately"; there was a span of several years between the movies, both in-universe and IRL. Rather, Spock was placed in command when Kirk was kicked back upstairs to Operations, and the Enterprise was removed from regular duty and designated a training ship.

    And since Rear Admiral Kirk was in Ops in TMP as well, he had full authority to assign command of Enterprise after the loss of Capt. Decker. His choice to assign himself was rather nepotistic, but apparently legal under Starfleet regs (which, as has been noted, are rather looser than those of any real-world military service).
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    organicmanfredorganicmanfred Member Posts: 3,236 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    How did Troi manage to become LtCmd. anyway when TNG started? I haven't seen doing her anything special except using her empathy to "feeeeeel" lies and Stress in others.

    I know she belonged to the Science/Medical staff but she shown to be nothing more than a psychotrist.
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    lawstanzlawstanz Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    How did Troi manage to become LtCmd. anyway when TNG started? I haven't seen doing her anything special except using her empathy to "feeeeeel" lies and Stress in others.

    I know she belonged to the Science/Medical staff but she shown to be nothing more than a psychotrist.
    She was a Starfleet officer assigned as ship's counselor. Just like Ezri was an assistant ship's counselor prior to being diverted to DS9 to take the Dax symbiont. You may think of it as "nothing more than" but to Starfleet it's an actual thing.
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    organicmanfredorganicmanfred Member Posts: 3,236 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lawstanz wrote: »
    She was a Starfleet officer assigned as ship's counselor. Just like Ezri was an assistant ship's counselor prior to being diverted to DS9 to take the Dax symbiont. You may think of it as "nothing more than" but to Starfleet it's an actual thing.

    So she must have done a lot of counseling before to get that far.. :eek:

    When Harry Kim was 7 years long the Senior Ops Officer as an Ensign, does that mean that no other Ensign from the Ops Department was allowed to rank up?
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    makocallowaymakocalloway Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Wow great info, thanks all.
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    shurato2099shurato2099 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    So she must have done a lot of counseling before to get that far.. :eek:

    When Harry Kim was 7 years long the Senior Ops Officer as an Ensign, does that mean that no other Ensign from the Ops Department was allowed to rank up?

    Voyager's chain of commange was ... special, I suppose. Between the loss of large numbers of Federation crew and the integration of Maquis members into the remaining crew some ranks were arbitrarily assigned based on need and responsibility and time-in-grade was largely thrown out the window.

    In Harry's case it was shown several times that he was actively pursuing command certification and the Captain was encouraging it: making him part of the senior staff, assigning him to the Big Chair on gamma shift, giving Harry increasing responsibility on away missions, etc. That, somehow, he never made it beyond ensign during the show was always perplexing to me.
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    tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Captain, 1st Officer to Ensign. That's how it works on the TV shows :)
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    ghyudtghyudt Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I'm pretty sure they go by rank more than position. I recall an episode of TNG when Troi was pit in command because she was the next ranking officer, a Lieutenant Commander. I can't recall exactly what the circumstances were.
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,365 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    ghyudt wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they go by rank more than position. I recall an episode of TNG when Troi was pit in command because she was the next ranking officer, a Lieutenant Commander. I can't recall exactly what the circumstances were.
    She was senior remaining officer after the last command-line officer on the bridge was disabled. That's what inspired her to take the command test finally.
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    lawstanzlawstanz Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    That, somehow, [Harry] never made it beyond ensign during the show was always perplexing to me.

    The "official" reason was that since Starfleet couldn't approve the paperwork no one on Voyager could be promoted. Seriously. Of course that, along with much of Voyager, doesn't hold up under logical scrutiny nor was it universally followed (e.g. Tuvok and Paris). Basically Voyagers writers phoned it in fairly regularly when it came to continuity.
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lawstanz wrote: »
    The "official" reason was that since Starfleet couldn't approve the paperwork no one on Voyager could be promoted. Seriously. Of course that, along with much of Voyager, doesn't hold up under logical scrutiny nor was it universally followed (e.g. Tuvok and Paris). Basically Voyagers writers phoned it in fairly regularly when it came to continuity.

    I think the way it's supposed to work is, any field promotion is subject to later approval, so Janeway was actually perfectly within her rights to promote people and grant field commissions. If nothing else Harry should've gotten an automatic promotion to JG purely for time-in-grade after the first 18 months.

    B&B held him back on purpose because they wanted an Ensign Newbie character for the others to act superior to.
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    lawstanzlawstanz Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    starswordc wrote: »
    . . .B&B held him back on purpose because they wanted an Ensign Newbie character for the others to act superior to.
    Oh I agree it was completely an artificial plot contrivance to keep him in the "gullible sidekick" role. Garrett Wang has been quoted as saying when he brought up the issue with Braga he was told "well, someone has to be the ensign."
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