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Save No Win Scenario or: How not to break our Favorite Toy
einheryar44
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
pwgroverclvlnd wrote: »New to Tribble this week:
No Win Scenario
The No Win Scenario, both Starfleet and Klingon versions, has been removed from the PvE queue list. With the increase in maximum player level from 50 to 60, we no longer feel this queue is accomplishing its job of providing an intense escalating challenge where players really have to struggle to advance to the later waves. We do have plans to revisit this queue in the near future and rebuild it so it can continue to live up to its name.
When likely over 99% of the playerbase has yet to complete wave 10 of No Win Scenario, it becomes quite obvious that there are only two possibilities here.
Either you're lying to us and have (an) ulterior motive(s) for removing this content, or you're incredibly misinformed.
The latter reason is easily fixed. Check your metrics. Play No Win Scenario. You'll find that your reasoning is woefully incorrect. And you should revert your change that has gone on Tribble immediately.
If it is the former, well, there is no law that I know of that requires you to act ethically and treat your playerbase well. But you should, and least of all because it's good for business. But I'm not your mother and I'm not going to browbeat you over it, said and done.
I really hope that you revert this change that is already on Tribble, and give us back No Win Scenario (normal/advanced/elite) because it is fun and interesting content. Or at the extreme very least, leave it in until you actually have a different version of it up running and community tested (let us please not have a repeat of Mirror Invasion, i.e. taking something relatively popular and entertaining and making something awful, and having that replace it entirely; hell, why not have the two up concurrently, NWS and NWS 2.0 and see what the community thinks, which they play, which they enjoy better).
But I'll go further. I will say that No Win Scenario is currently your most fun content that you have in your entire game, and I think that I have a whole lot of support here when saying this (the entire Kirk's Protege / Spock's Protege / Weseley Protege channlebase for instance). To remove this queue, to take it away from your playerbase, especially for your completely unjustified and illogical reasoning, would be incredibly crass, unkind, and shortsighted.
So please, do not take this as an attack, I'm not blaming anyone for making this change, but please, take this as feedback and act on it.
Give us back No Win Scenario. Thank you.
Post edited by einheryar44 on
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Since you've identified it as 'fun' using red letters, it will now be removed. Please note 500 Dilithium has been deducted from your account for this effort.
- Remove NWS Normal (The No-skill Noob Farmers Dream)
- Remove NWS Elite (The TRIBBLE's Dream)
BUT keep NWS Advanced (The STO Gamer's Dream): The only semi challenging, fun and entertaining content that can't simply be DPS plowed through by 99% of the game, as crowd control and teamwork actually works better than DPS. The current difficulty is slightly higher than immediately pre-Delta - absolutely no reason to kill it.
It's some very dubious logic to remove one of, if not the best, pieces of content in the game just because it doesn't strictly match the title of the map - call it "Civi Transport Defense" for all we care - removing this map significantly diminishes the value of this game as a product.
Dygear
Vallhalla's Rising Fleet
Webmaster & TS3 Server Op.
And I dont see why its necessary to remove the mission now without the new one being ready. If you remove it now and bringt it back a werk later okay whatever. But removing it now and waitikg a year or more to bring it back would be really bad.
In the mean time however please leave NWS as it is so people can atleast sorta enjoy the normal version until a reworking can be completed. If it truely is your intent to rework NWS to make it better there is no reason to take it down ahead of time. It is one of only a handful of queues left in this game that are even somewhat fun.
One thing to remember, NWS pre DR is the only thing that kept myself and most of the people I know playing this game, without it I would have quit long before DR out of boredom.
But hey we have lovely new boff icons and an updated dil sink...I mean boff training system
I agree they should leave NWS as it is. They already left NWS for 2 years after teams consistently started beating it, they added adv and elite (moving the titles and accolades to elite to preserve the challenge and reason to do elite) but then they go "You know what? Let's just bin it!" A fully working, no bugs event that players enjoy....and they remove it. I stopped playing NWS ages ago, I just realised one day I had no reason or interest anymore and it had been months since I touched it. Does this mean NWS should be removed? No! I agree a lot of people find this challenging still or even impossible. Just because some of us OP or not can beat it consistently doesn't mean everyone does it could well be 99% of the completed runs were by people who had already beaten it so it's not like new people were beating it by the day. When was the last time we saw NWS spam? It seems to me that the event is still challenging.
I say leave it but we know full we they won't and don't expect a revamp anytime soon either. If there is I could see it being like MI or CCE where the rewards are nerfed but periodically there's an event.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Even Pre-DR with the number of "So and so does not believe in a no win scenario" messages scrolling by my screen every few minutes, it actually did seem NWS wasn't hard enough with so many people doing > 15K dps. If I'm seeing so many people get to wave 8 9 and 10 surely the metrics should be seeing the same thing: too many people are getting the advanced NWS accolades. So I think giving it a rest makes sense. Of course I don't see too many people playign it now, which means that it must feel broken or some other issue (people crashing or whatever).
So i want to fight in an actual asteroid field and have enemied attack from RANDOM sides while we move with the freighter to protect through the asteroid field. Thats what i want^^
Spam only happens on elite and the FM is the same regardless of difficulty so it's a no brainer - do the easier normal mode and get the same reward than bust your TRIBBLE trying to do elite and almost certainly not get as far/much. The mission itself is still bug free last I heard.
If Cryptic thinks NWS is too easy, then the answer is yes, NWS Normal is too easy. NWS Advanced is still pretty easy, but takes too long for the marginal reward. NWS Elite is an utter waste of time (a speed run takes 35-40 mins) and not even remotely worth the reward.
To be honest, the old NWS was damn near perfect. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever to have changed from that. And, as #'s mentioned above, why on earth didn't you guys at least ask us about how to "improve" NWS. We actually have some wonderful ideas. Simply increasing hit point slider on NPC's was idiotic. The challenge didn't increase, only the time to complete. The only strategy change was to use more tbr's.
So, for the sake of the NWS Channels:
NWS_Public
and the private:
Wesleys_Protege (basic nws channel)
Spocks_Protege (Can hold S or W)
Kirks_Protege (Must hold N or E with no help)
We ask that you do not take NWS Away. All of these channels are very, very active. We hope you do not ruin No Win Scenario further. Would you at least put back in the PRE DR version as you "tinker" with new version? Those of us who created the channels have spent an enormous amount of time, effort, and training in maintaining and developing them. We, consequently, are the same people that run the DPS League.
We, the DPS League and NWS Channels, also fear that NWS will go the way of Terradome, thus destroying 1.8 years of work. NWS is by far the most fun in the game. NO other mission gave you the adrenaline dump that NWS gave you when you won it for the first time. I couldn't type for 5 minutes after my first win--thought I was having a heart attack.
So much effort has gone into developing strategies and passing them down to the channels for the other players (not to mention the sheer number of ships we have sold for you as people mimicked our builds and BOUGHT our ships from you) that removing NWS would simply be a crime.
At least open a dialogue with us, as I know that some of the devs "tinkering" with NWS have not even won it. We could really offer some wonderful insight for you. Just click on the links in my signature to see how seriously we take NWS. Only 4 people in your entire player base ever completed it with only 2 people (pre DR)--so I think that goes to show how intimately we know how to fly it.
Porch
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
That said, I don't think any content should be removed without some sort of replacement.
If it's too easy - mission designers should develop a new version - and roll it out, when it's ready. In my opinion, leave the existing one in place in the meantime.
If NWS is removed just one more poor decision on the part of game management.
What STO needs are the problems which constantly ruin the enjoyably of the game resolved.
Bridge officers falling off their stations. Sever not responding. Games crashes,
Trays loosing abilities. Not to mention the unbelievable amount of time needed to farm XP in this game. Every one of the above are issues which almost every person I know and play with in this game
are tired of and many have left permanently.
How about this for a priority list for the programmers/managers to work on.
1 Repair issues causing game crashes and video card issues for players ATI card in particular.
2 Figure out why so many are getting server not responding.
3 Fix the Bridge officer problem/tray ability issue.
4 Fix the numerous bugs in game that have been turned in by many on the forums and tribble testers.
5 Revisit the concept of XP earned for time spent in game.
6 Revisit the Crafting system and how mods are determined and lack of player input as to preference
7 Repair ship current ship select
8 Preset for Ground and space traits having to flip flop every time you wish to do either is a pain.
9 Lastly reverse the trend for weekly server stability updates to actually improve the game and not
make it worse.
I read this list to people I know before posting it and not one person disagreed.
We need a game that WORKS first and adding more features which further add to the issues and
problems at hand does not generate feelings of goodwill.
Please do not remove NWS, please do work on the problems the game currently has.
Thank you
CMD Barstow
All you need to do is add some of the new races to the current version of NWS and increase the rewards significantly on Advanced and Elite. As stated above, most players are very concerned removing NWS will end up like the original Mirror Universe and Terradome and never get replaced.
In the PvE Query Survey thread I brought up many different solutions that need to be considered.
Consult with some of the players of NWS before making any changes. Most of us are more than willing to help with suggestions.
Then there was Terradome before it got nerfed. It was 5 versus 500. The first statement anyone made was "Why won't these ships die?" Followed by the "I've been watching this group for 5 minutes and none of these guys have flipped a coin yet". To "Holy cow there's a lot of Undine in here!" "Don't shoot the sacks hanging from the ceiling" was a common statement. Followed by the "Who aggro'd the room?" statement. I was playing Terradome with a fleet mate and some others that had formed a team in Gamma Orinis. We had gotten into the end room and started shooting the Sulu's and the Undine when my fleet mate started screaming "the sky is falling the sky is falling!" While shooting wildly into the hordes of Undine I became confused and said "What?" In a adrenalized caffeinated moment he frantically replied "Look up Undine Rangers!" I looked up to see a hundred Undine drop down from the ceiling. Good times good times.
The No Win Scenario has most of the elements of an STF minus the Borg. It takes tactics, know how, and a good ship build to beat the NWS and only a few people can show this with pride as one looks around ESD at those that have the "Kirk Prot
if this is a way of completely destroying and eliminating NWS then it will have succeeded before long.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
1) ".....not difficult enough" means moaaaar hit points coming soon(). Seriously who wants to still run NWS when elite mobs get even more HP. Dunno fun is something different to me.
2) there is a new holding coming. And NWS generates too many FM, now that most Fed fleets are fully done with upgrading T5 the sliders are getting filled to easily.
It was good while it lasted, i ll sort of miss it, but the way Cryptic dumped this on the players tells you that improving the game play was not part of the reason why it was dropped.
Looking forward to DS9 FA.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
- I remember every detail of my first win (I was in a Chel Grett with old [Borg] weapons, almost no p2w stuff, I forgot to activate APA on w10... Exciting times!) I don't remember such things of any other content.
- I've kept screenshots of every run I was a part of during which someone got a w10 accolade, to preserve memory of those glorious times
- for every new ship released, my first question was: would it be good for nws?
- temporal destroyer, fleet dhelan, nicor, faeht - just a few ships I bought for the sole purpose of playing nws in them
- I spent enormous amounts of resources on equipment for my nws ships (gear, doffs, traits ) and I spent countless hours tweaking my builds, experimenting with different builds and tactics just for that one single pve mission. My no-gw JHAS held every flank and beat all enemies because I wanted her to work even in non-elite teams!
- I didn't hesitate to buy stuff which I used only once, just to see if it would work for me in nws (hello and goodbye rommie torp and fleet DBBs!) Not to mention equipping delta flyer and To'Duj with fancy gear just for shuttle nws.
- 90% of people on my friends list are there because of nws
- my tiny fleet would never reach T5 if it weren't for nws
- awesome marks reward, but nws is much more than that (for example, I have ~30k fm on my main character alone and I still play nws daily vs. I finished delta rep with epohh boxes cause I couldn't force myself to do one lousy patrol for delta marks)
- for me, it started with Accolades and The_Hive_NWS channels. Now I'm a member of (and admin/operator on some) PublicNWS, Wesleys_Protege, Spocks_Protege, Kirks_Protege, RealEliteNWS you know the value of one single mission when you have several channels dedicated to it! A lot of work was invested into these channels, helping other players with advice, doing trial and train runs etc. I gave away millions of ec to those who wanted to improve but couldn't afford some special consoles, doffs and similar.
- even our premade runs were sometimes unpredictable (I'm looking at you 100k+ Negh'Var ISO crits!) You think it became too easy for the majority of players? Go pug it
- Above all, nws is the source of the greatest fun and laughs I had in this game (did you know that you could both win it and lose it at the same time?)
Don't take it away, please. If nothing else, think about all the dilithium I'm willing to spend on upgrading my nws ships and gear
I know many people have come to us NWS players to help carry them to a accolade and that 'unpredictable' run in the screenshot above is literally one of the best times I've ever had in STO. No where else in the game does it give you the adrenaline rush that NWS does.
What is going to happen to NWS shuttle event? It was *the* hallmark of the Shuttle Event weekend. I bought multiple shuttles, Delta Flyer, Voth and Tholian shuttles just for that event to play. Once again, some of the best times in the game was beating NWS shuttle events with 20 people. It required a ton of cooperation, teamwork and skill to beat that.
As many players have dedicated NWS ship builds and cannon weapons are almost the de facto standard for NWS, there will be a lot of players not upgrading their gear for sure.
This is the best time ever I had in NWS. But I'm also one the ones finally getting the accolade for their character on that one. And there are many others that have happened closed to that. NWS currently is challenging and the most the fun STF in STOs line up of PvE ques. Every time I play it and doesn't matter with it I have a fun time, even with we lose on wave 10 doing it with some noobs to the que.
Now for my 2 cents, I really should charge more.
First off, DON'T remove NWS until a new NWS has been created, and deemed fun to play by the players. Leave NWS alone until you have a new one ready, and then one, max two weeks before the new one comes out, then you remove the que.
As for the revamp of NWS, there are a lot of great suggestions with in this thread. And here are mine.
NWS Normal: Leave it alone. Reduce the FMs made to about 200 for a full run. And it's a challenging map, give out more R&D for it.
NWS Advanced: Leave hull and shield HP alone. Bring the FMs made up to 300. Give out more for the Advanced R&D materials. Start cycling the waves. For example: Wave 1 start out at North instead of west on one run, and the next run it starts out on east, and so on with every wave they come in at a different.
NWS Elite: Same hull and shield HP as Advanced, maybe even a little less as this is going to be more challenging. Bring FMs made up to 450. Give out more Elite R&D que materials. Cycle the waves. And every wave is to be a full wave of ships. (I.e. now W2, 4 ships spawn, W5 2 (Or more? I just kill them don't usually count) All of them to be a full wave of ships, not just 2 or 4).
And now for the really hard addition, Wave 11 to elite. In wave 11 one wave of ships come in at all angles (N, NW, S, SW, SE, NE, E, W) One full wave, for each direction, and 4 of them having a dreadnought. Again Random with each run.
Also we add to the rewards for getting the accolade, where you can claim your own armored bio neural warhead platform. Which can be slotted on any device slot on any ship, and used in any PvE. (I know that's asking to much but hey, why not?)
We all are :mad: where did the idea to remove the no win scenario come from? It was a fun game mode. Now what are we supposed to do
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