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Yes the Galaxy map is wrong in STO.
dark4blood
Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
Quote:
Anyone can pull up a map of the galaxy from the ST shows and SEE that the Sol System is on the Alpha/Beta border but slightly on the alpha quad side. Why in the galaxy map since Season 1 has it been on the beta side? Was voyager returning to the beta quadrant? Did they say, "we need to defend the beta quad" on the shows? Someone needs to start doing some checks somewhere along the lines.
That someone should be you. The Sol system's location is fairly well cemented as being the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Just like the Prime Meridian on Earth runs through London which is both in the Eastern and Western hemispheres. And just like most of Europe is in the Eastern hemisphere, we still refer to Europe as being part of The West; so too is the Federation referred to as an Alpha Quadrant power despite most of it's core worlds being located in the Beta Quadrant.
*Sorry to say this but I read a topic where someone tried to say the heart of the Federation was on the meridian of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant and that is incorrect. Earth, which is ALWAYS considered the heart of the Federation, when the Borg were attacking they were going to earth and in Nemesis Shinzon was going to destroy Earth. So again STO does have it wrong.
All these maps show the same thing. Earth is CLEARLY in the Alpha Quadrant and the Federation expanded in the Beta Quadrant as the colonized and added new Federation Races.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=star+trek+galaxy+map%3f&id=AEDE3BF6BE5CD0FD40C5FC142BDB245C64748669&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=AEDE3BF6BE5CD0FD40C5FC142BDB245C64748669&selectedIndex=0
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=star+trek+galaxy+map%3f&id=AEDE3BF6BE5CD0FD40C5FC142BDB245C64748669&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=3F53EBAA3F5FFEA7BF867E33089AF758EB170C29&selectedIndex=8
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=star+trek+galaxy+map%3f&id=AEDE3BF6BE5CD0FD40C5FC142BDB245C64748669&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=F0C0B9130DA3EA1A7944077CF11A4D533EFF4F09&selectedIndex=20
Now I don't know if this is just an expense error that Cryptic just doesn't see the reason to fix, but it does look pretty silly to be the only Official Star Trek Universe MMO, and get the location of the Federation wrong.
Anyone can pull up a map of the galaxy from the ST shows and SEE that the Sol System is on the Alpha/Beta border but slightly on the alpha quad side. Why in the galaxy map since Season 1 has it been on the beta side? Was voyager returning to the beta quadrant? Did they say, "we need to defend the beta quad" on the shows? Someone needs to start doing some checks somewhere along the lines.
That someone should be you. The Sol system's location is fairly well cemented as being the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Just like the Prime Meridian on Earth runs through London which is both in the Eastern and Western hemispheres. And just like most of Europe is in the Eastern hemisphere, we still refer to Europe as being part of The West; so too is the Federation referred to as an Alpha Quadrant power despite most of it's core worlds being located in the Beta Quadrant.
*Sorry to say this but I read a topic where someone tried to say the heart of the Federation was on the meridian of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant and that is incorrect. Earth, which is ALWAYS considered the heart of the Federation, when the Borg were attacking they were going to earth and in Nemesis Shinzon was going to destroy Earth. So again STO does have it wrong.
All these maps show the same thing. Earth is CLEARLY in the Alpha Quadrant and the Federation expanded in the Beta Quadrant as the colonized and added new Federation Races.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=star+trek+galaxy+map%3f&id=AEDE3BF6BE5CD0FD40C5FC142BDB245C64748669&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=AEDE3BF6BE5CD0FD40C5FC142BDB245C64748669&selectedIndex=0
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=star+trek+galaxy+map%3f&id=AEDE3BF6BE5CD0FD40C5FC142BDB245C64748669&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=3F53EBAA3F5FFEA7BF867E33089AF758EB170C29&selectedIndex=8
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=star+trek+galaxy+map%3f&id=AEDE3BF6BE5CD0FD40C5FC142BDB245C64748669&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=F0C0B9130DA3EA1A7944077CF11A4D533EFF4F09&selectedIndex=20
Now I don't know if this is just an expense error that Cryptic just doesn't see the reason to fix, but it does look pretty silly to be the only Official Star Trek Universe MMO, and get the location of the Federation wrong.
Post edited by dark4blood on
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Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Seriously though, there are a lot of inconsistencies in Trek geography/stellar cartography. I'm not even going to get into the whole Qo'nos/Kronos mess.
I'm more than willing to give them a bit of wiggle-room on the sector maps.
Unsurprisingly though, the disclaimer itself introduces a new scaling problem: It suggests that all the canon Delta Quadrant races we encounter in Delta Rising, which spanned tens of thousands of light-years as presented in the Voyager TV series (including a couple of roughly 10K-LY jumps), are now all crammed into a relatively tiny volume of space. Needless to say, that premise beggars belief.
My Foundry missions | My STO Wiki page | My Twitter home page
I think "quadrant" meant something different back then. At the very least it's sloppy dialogue and terms were used interchangeably.
To the OP:
A) You are correct about the locations.
C) There are a lot worse things in STO to gripe about.
Anyway, out of all things the map is the dumbest thing to care about even the shows did not care, if we go by these maps, then it should have taken a lot longer for the Enterprise to get around the Federation in TNG.
Nope :
http://www.sttff.net/images/AST030.jpg
http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/star-trek-map1.jpeg
Not sure what you're talking about ...
btw : Only one of your Maps actually shows Earth "clearly" in the Alpha Quadrant, and it looks like it's drawn by a 5 year old ... while SOL might be sligthly more in the Alpha Quadrant it was always supposed to be between Alpha & Beta ...
Pretty sure that's by design ... unless they're going to add Planets like Teller, Betazed etc ... they would have to add an entire Sector Block just for Earth ...
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yeah, TOS-era conventions don't necessarily apply to the TNG era, much less STO. Remember, back then not even the deck numbers on starships had any rhyme or reason to them (as indicated by a certain infamous scene of Star Trek V).
My Foundry missions | My STO Wiki page | My Twitter home page
Well, we're just gonna pretend that scene never happened...for a lot of reasons...must have been all those marshmelons.
Well it's on all other ST Maps as well ...
As for your case that the maps in STO are not right I agree However the 3 maps you posted are not proof.
Map one
The Romulan empire does not touch on federation space therefore there is no romulan neutral zone. This then causes this mnap to be tossed aside
Map two,
does not show earth, again this causes this "evidence" to be tossed out.,
Map three,
concentrates on the gamma and delta quadrants and shows almost no detail of the Alpha and beta. again this is tossed out. Plus it shows Bajor much closer to Earth. and Cardassia Prime too far from Bajor.
sorry to burst your bubble. I have several manuals that are canon that I can refer you to for maps help if you want real evidence to support your argument.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
*one hour later*
Is anybody really surprised?
I know that a lot of the Devs love Trek, but using the game as a basis, you would really never know. It really does look like some chinese company known for grinding made this game from the get go...
The game is so IP inaccurate, that could be why the client has become so unstable lately. It's become too paradoxical to itself that even Q can't fix it. Not even with three Picards...
The sectors used in the Delta Quadrant on the map are from season 4+ in Voyager and doesn't actually span the entire amount of space Voyager traversed. If you look up the systems and compare them to the Voyager episodes they appeared in you can actually see the route unfold (it even includes systems not in the show where the ship 'skipped' via shortcuts). I should try and dig out a map I made showing the episodes from the show underneath the names of the systems on the map.
It's also worth noting that in the show our heroes traveled fairly quickly between locations in the space of 42 minutes, in reality, some of the shows took place over the space of months due to travel times, which doesn't translate to well in gaming terms!
Hah, I love this. The quote (in bold) you refer to was from myself. And I stand by it. The maps you posted are fan-made. The best resource for this sort of thing is probably the Star Trek Starcharts book.
before the argument gets blown up, there is no official galaxy map in trek, some have attempted it in the past but all conflict and information which has been stated in the shows can also conflict with this information on said galaxy maps. as a result you will never get an answer so i wont even try to sugar coat it for you. however you should also be aware that this is "STO canon", the devs can do what they like with it since immersion went out the window long ago.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
1. Voyager should not have used "alpha quadrant" as short-hand for Federation space but they did that to keep it simple for casual audiences. The geography on that show was messed up all over, with them running into species that they were supposedly 10,000ly away from, and running into people over and over again as if they weren't even going in one direction but just hanging out in one region of space.
In the end, Voyager treated the Delta Quadrant as if it were a neighborhood of space and the Alpha Quadrant as if it were another. This is why it doesn't bother me that the Malon are near the Ocampa in STO; Voyager messed up geography so often that having messed up geography is canon.
2. Same for DS9. I can only imagine the hollywood-type producer telling both writing teams to cut out all the nonsense about the Beta Quadrant because learning about 4 quadrants instead of 2 (then 3) would just be too much to ask audiences.
3. In TOS and the films based on it, "quadrant" is used in the same way that "sector" is in later Star Treks. Take that as you will.
4. The maps the OP linked to are clearly not canon, as 2 of them have the UFP extending over at least a quarter of the galaxy. On DS9 it was mentioned several times that to get from one end of Fed space to the other it took a few months at high warp, whereas it took 60 years to get to Dominion space. The Federation can simply not be that big and make any sense at all.
5. The Voyager episode "Timeless" implies that Voyager would have to cross a bit of the Beta Quadrant to get to Federation space. "Endgame" too, where Admiral Janeway tells Captain Janeway off-handedly that Voyager would run into a Beta Quadrant species in a few years.
But yea, overall agree that you can't spend too much time thinking about the geography of things in canon because they messed things up and changed them around. STO needed something stable and this is what they came up with. Kudos to Cryptic there.
Now im not saying STO map is correct.. the fact the map lines from the quadrants center on Sol system is wrong should be galactic center. Yes the bulk of the Romulan, Klingon, Cardy and Federation should be in the Alpha quadrents not the beta.
The other issue is a 2D map of 3D space. We do not know how much the Romulan and Klingon and Federation is +/- of the center azimuth. In theory on a 2D map they could all be located on top of each other due to that.
Star Trek Starcharts (which is also the source that Suricata used), is probably the closest to "Trek canon" in regards to the Galaxy Map. AND, the STO map still has planets and locations incorrect compared to the Starcharts book.
Cryptic chose a map that is, in my opinion very accurate...not in every aspect, but in many aspects. I have no link for it currently, maybe it was posted already somewhere in the thread.
Anyway, what STAR TREK (as a franchise) desperately needs is a more centralized authority and no a gazillion of writers from the early 60ties to the late 90ties.
You can say about George Lucas whatever you want, but gave his Star Wars exactly that continuity.
Escorts are named so In-universe, in DS9, the Defiant was explicit called an "escort". Sisco even points out the stupidity of it, with the reasoning being that Starfleet is NOT an army and thus has no "military weapons." We all know it is a lie, that starfleet IS A miltary that just so happens to have a job besides miltary-related things, but it is a major point throughout all of the series that they do not want to admit it.
Cruisers are also generally named exactly that in-universe. star ship applies to all space worthy ships in-series (besides the original series to some extent, where the enterprise name-plate labels it as a Starship-class, which we know is not correct anymore.)
before you bash STO, maybe you should know the series classifications themselves.
And things only got worse in subsequent series....
There have been any number of "authoritative" and "authorized" maps, many of which are sketchy, observably inaccurate, and mutually contradictory. By now, it is pretty much impossible to come up with any consistent map of the Trek galaxy which can't be contradicted from some canon source. (The number of habitable planets in the Rigel system alone gives scope for endless debate.)
Basically, the STO map is no worse than any of the others, and there's no point making a fuss over it.
If you read the novel of the first star trek movie, the motion picture that Rodenberry wrote, the enterprise after the refit while called a cruiser, but kirk says it is called that because the federation does not want to call it a battleship.
Books are not canon.
The only time the Enterprise was specifically labeled (by Humans), was the Enterprise-D in 'Yesterday's Enterprise' (where it was a Battleship). The Defiant was labeled as an Escort. Non-Human races have occasionally referred to Federation starships as either Cruisers, or Battleships/Warships.
^^^
Honestly, no, he didn't (just look at the original 1977 "Star Wars" as compared to the film that followed aka "The Empire Strikes Back" and you can already encounter retcons of facts from the original film. Then we get to some of the first Star Wars novels like "Splinter in the Mind's Eye", etc.
Lucas was hardly consistent with the Star Wars universe during his tenure (before he sold everything lock, stock and barrel to Disney; who IMO honestly couldn't do any worse writing wise with the franchise then Lucas did.):eek::D
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Wolf 359 is a red dwarf star located some 7.8 lightyears from Sol. Memory Alpha lists it as "less than twenty lightyears" away; the STO map places it as closer to Sol than Alpha Centauri, a binary (or possibly trinary) star just over 4 lightyears away. (Alpha Centauri A is a G-type yellow dwarf, similar to Sol; Alpha Centauri B is a K-type orange dwarf which follows an elliptical orbit around A, with aphelion being about the same as the distance from Sol to Saturn, and perihelion being about the same as the average distance from Sol to Pluto. Proxima Centauri, an M-type red dwarf about 1200 AU closer to Sol than Alpha Centauri A, may be gravitationally associated with the Alpha Centauri system - its orbit, if any, would be so huge that we haven't seen a significant fraction of it yet.)
I haven't even been able to find Tau Ceti, a G-type star nearly identical to Sol, in the STO maps.