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I don't get it.
zekeferrigno
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Well, I do get it. Greed. You take a game that is incredible, and you just get corrupt and money hungry. Honestly, I am cool with the money hungry part you're a business indebted to share holders afterall, but completely TRIBBLE up a game that has managed to survive so much already really must have taken a phenomenally infinitesimal, short-sighted group of officious bureaucratic minds. Hey. once CBS yanks the license to this the masterminds behind these questionable changes will have a great career writing for Family Guy.
So you try to gouge people with time gated content and dilithium costs? Clearly it has worked out swimmingly since none of my RL friends even want to touch this game now, and there is more discontent on these forums than the great content drought.
Okay Geko, take five minutes, go to SWTOR.COM. Alright Geko, you there hamie? Now go check out their cartel coin system, you noticing something? That is right. Player housing. Fluff. Pets. Cosmetics. Trinkets. What is that? People are paying out the nose for cosmetics for the interiors of their homes and every other imaginable fanciful objet d'art? No fargin way!
Now...what short sighted development team said there was no profit in expanding the ship interiors, selling more interior options for ships etc...
OH YEAH! THIS ONE!
I mean can you truly not find better ways to monetize this game other than this stupid time gated dilithium system? This game, for better or for worse, has a huge community full of RPers and worse that eat up every crappy costume pack you throw at them. You have many other options to make money, but nope you choose the stupidest most customer alienating route that drains the playerbase. Then you completely nerf all the ways to get dilithium to add insult to injury, then sit around crying that people are a bit miffed and less than impressed by the entire money grabbing aspect of this experiment?
I'm sorry, but no one enjoys that. You can make a fortune by monetizing the fluff. People want player housing, customizable ship interiors, cosmetics. You know, things that don't unbalance the game, but give financing to improve other areas of the game.
I know, there are real brownie hounds on here that are like, "Buuuhh we don't need player housing, we have our ships!" Shut it. You have your ships on SWTOR too, but that didn't stop them from having vision and increasing sources of revenue. You can sell furniture, player housing, ship expansions and then they won't have to assault us with these stupid nickel and diming practices. As it stands they have ignored the huge demand to make the interiors of ships better, and people would PAY! I get it, you think there are more important areas that need work, sure, they do. However, if they would do something like this, maybe we wouldn't be in such dire straights with Dil costs and the nickel and diming.
Do you want access to these areas of the ship? 500 zen. Do you want a better set of accoutrements for your DS9 apartment? Buy this Space Apartment Furnishings pack for 250 zen, with many rare furniture options! You can even tie this into crafting.
People on SWTOR are buying those furniture packs hand over fist and they actually get stuff in the packs that help out and are satisfied with their purchases. Know what people aren't satisfied with? These crappy lockboxes, keys, and R&D packs. In fact, this game is losing steam fast and you are rapidly losing all the good faith Cryptic accumulated.
Do not try to tell me this stuff would not sell either. Do you people have any idea how expensive Tatooine stronghold is fully decked out? Yeah, people bought it with Cartel coins aplenty! If the whales on here would spend their money on cosmetics like a Vulcan summer home, or an Ice Shanty on Andoria then maybe we wouldn't have to wait 20 hours to turn in a project for a left foot worth of Dil.
So it comes down to this, I simply do not get why the dev team feels the current financial model is feasible or conducive to a healthy community unless it is just rampant greed and people being too lazy to Google what their wiser better are doing. Obviously there are far better ways to sell lockboxes and content as that other space game seems to have figured it out in spades. At this point, being saddled with the only really unreasonable restriction of 350K energy credits on SWTOR is far more preferential than spending another dime on STO and being pounded on with endless grinds for nothing.
That is the saddest part, you devs had lightning in a bottle with this game. Sure it had its problems, but it was a great experience for the most part. Now? It just seems exploitative, very alt-unfriendly, unbalanced, bulletsponge enemies, and just perfunctory. I feel like you guys secretly hired the Dev team from Defiance and told them to do what they do best. You had such an amazing system of sideways upgrades and you just blew it. Healthsink enemies? Lazy. No, don't give them better, experimental weapons or abilities. Nah, let's just add twelve zeroes to the end of this probe! This probe can totally take on five starships at once. It is just insulting at this point and not fun.
This game was a diamond in the rough. But now? Oh yeah, I forget, it is the best expansion ever and all the players loved it. In fact, they loved it about as much as they loved Voyager, I certainly know this expansion has been on par with the first few seasons of Voyager for sure. I am still waiting to see if it can be worse and you make Seven go crazy for a long lost daddy figure. Are you devs waiting to spring Robert Beltran on us? He is really the one working the Excel spreadsheet changes right?
Ugh, sorry for this wall of text, but after returning to this for the first time since the Hakeev Crystalline event I had to vent. Thanks for your time fellow players.
So you try to gouge people with time gated content and dilithium costs? Clearly it has worked out swimmingly since none of my RL friends even want to touch this game now, and there is more discontent on these forums than the great content drought.
Okay Geko, take five minutes, go to SWTOR.COM. Alright Geko, you there hamie? Now go check out their cartel coin system, you noticing something? That is right. Player housing. Fluff. Pets. Cosmetics. Trinkets. What is that? People are paying out the nose for cosmetics for the interiors of their homes and every other imaginable fanciful objet d'art? No fargin way!
Now...what short sighted development team said there was no profit in expanding the ship interiors, selling more interior options for ships etc...
OH YEAH! THIS ONE!
I mean can you truly not find better ways to monetize this game other than this stupid time gated dilithium system? This game, for better or for worse, has a huge community full of RPers and worse that eat up every crappy costume pack you throw at them. You have many other options to make money, but nope you choose the stupidest most customer alienating route that drains the playerbase. Then you completely nerf all the ways to get dilithium to add insult to injury, then sit around crying that people are a bit miffed and less than impressed by the entire money grabbing aspect of this experiment?
I'm sorry, but no one enjoys that. You can make a fortune by monetizing the fluff. People want player housing, customizable ship interiors, cosmetics. You know, things that don't unbalance the game, but give financing to improve other areas of the game.
I know, there are real brownie hounds on here that are like, "Buuuhh we don't need player housing, we have our ships!" Shut it. You have your ships on SWTOR too, but that didn't stop them from having vision and increasing sources of revenue. You can sell furniture, player housing, ship expansions and then they won't have to assault us with these stupid nickel and diming practices. As it stands they have ignored the huge demand to make the interiors of ships better, and people would PAY! I get it, you think there are more important areas that need work, sure, they do. However, if they would do something like this, maybe we wouldn't be in such dire straights with Dil costs and the nickel and diming.
Do you want access to these areas of the ship? 500 zen. Do you want a better set of accoutrements for your DS9 apartment? Buy this Space Apartment Furnishings pack for 250 zen, with many rare furniture options! You can even tie this into crafting.
People on SWTOR are buying those furniture packs hand over fist and they actually get stuff in the packs that help out and are satisfied with their purchases. Know what people aren't satisfied with? These crappy lockboxes, keys, and R&D packs. In fact, this game is losing steam fast and you are rapidly losing all the good faith Cryptic accumulated.
Do not try to tell me this stuff would not sell either. Do you people have any idea how expensive Tatooine stronghold is fully decked out? Yeah, people bought it with Cartel coins aplenty! If the whales on here would spend their money on cosmetics like a Vulcan summer home, or an Ice Shanty on Andoria then maybe we wouldn't have to wait 20 hours to turn in a project for a left foot worth of Dil.
So it comes down to this, I simply do not get why the dev team feels the current financial model is feasible or conducive to a healthy community unless it is just rampant greed and people being too lazy to Google what their wiser better are doing. Obviously there are far better ways to sell lockboxes and content as that other space game seems to have figured it out in spades. At this point, being saddled with the only really unreasonable restriction of 350K energy credits on SWTOR is far more preferential than spending another dime on STO and being pounded on with endless grinds for nothing.
That is the saddest part, you devs had lightning in a bottle with this game. Sure it had its problems, but it was a great experience for the most part. Now? It just seems exploitative, very alt-unfriendly, unbalanced, bulletsponge enemies, and just perfunctory. I feel like you guys secretly hired the Dev team from Defiance and told them to do what they do best. You had such an amazing system of sideways upgrades and you just blew it. Healthsink enemies? Lazy. No, don't give them better, experimental weapons or abilities. Nah, let's just add twelve zeroes to the end of this probe! This probe can totally take on five starships at once. It is just insulting at this point and not fun.
This game was a diamond in the rough. But now? Oh yeah, I forget, it is the best expansion ever and all the players loved it. In fact, they loved it about as much as they loved Voyager, I certainly know this expansion has been on par with the first few seasons of Voyager for sure. I am still waiting to see if it can be worse and you make Seven go crazy for a long lost daddy figure. Are you devs waiting to spring Robert Beltran on us? He is really the one working the Excel spreadsheet changes right?
Ugh, sorry for this wall of text, but after returning to this for the first time since the Hakeev Crystalline event I had to vent. Thanks for your time fellow players.
Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it. - Bubba
Post edited by zekeferrigno on
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I hear some people ask why "if we hate so much, why play?". Easy, we have wasted so much time and money and want to love this game, but every time we turn around their is a dil sink, which in turn is a money sink. Stop defending the people that are making YOUR game substandard. We are customers and the only thing they will understand is us not buying or logging in.
I had 30 people in my office that were ready to start playing this game and make a company fleet, but I have talked everyone out of it, because of the hardcore freemium model this game is now. These were people willing to buy ships and costumes and spend money supporting this game, but not the way it currently is. So until this game changes direction im out!
People can ask me, "if you hate it so much why play?" At this point, I'm not playing. The game has basically become a spreadsheet simulator thanks to all the grinds and clicking I have to do on garbage for upgrades. I don't have to play, because thankfully that other space game has BALANCED space combat, BALANCED ground PvP and rewards me for spending money in their store. In that game, if I need new gear, it is as simple as turning in commendations which flow freely into your inventory. In this game? Give us dil and roll dat dice.
No.
I truly am not opposed to monetization. But this has been done shamefully, insultingly, and is very indicative of the utter disrespect for the community.
I wouldn't be too excited yet - just because they have it doesn't mean it will remain succesful.
But I also think Starship interiros are not simply "player housing". I think they need to be mission areas, because lots of Star Trek stories play on the ship.
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CBS has never pulled the Star Trek license from anything, including now three vaporware and one live mobile/facebook games and a cancelled Asteroids-style arcade shooter MMO. The Star Trek license as a whole has only been pulled twice: Once all the way back in the late 80's because Paramount thought licensed properties would compete with a new show, and once more recently because Activision threw a hissy fit and tried to get Viacom to pay the debts they ran up making games that were flopping.
A couple people have even posted their replies when they think they're getting Cryptic in trouble by telling on them, and they're somehow blind to the fact that CBS explicitly said they don't care.
CBS carries zero risk and zero cost. Paramount has effectively blocked them from having another TV series, they're not allowed to relaunch the pre-reboot timeline anymore, all they have is their licensing fees.
Never was it cited as any golden beacon. However it has successfully monetized the game without introducing the same problems that have been seen here. Also, SWTOR is massive in comparison to this game. It really really is, so your little adorable chuckles about that game are pretty irrelevant sir.
Also, GSF pretty much owns the title to your soul. It really is that good, Strike Night rolls your face.
Playerbase. Who are the playerbase? You or everyone still playing? They are alienating a group of customers not most customers. Because if they are alieanating most of the customers, there would be no people playing STO by now, no people opened the Sheshar, nor even lockboxes even today.
Based on what assumption? You and your friends? Because if that is the case, you and your friends are the only ones playing the game because it lost steam fast.
Yes, there are a group of players disgruntled and left. But that doesnt mean STO is losing players. STO can still recruit new players just like any business, loss and gain customers.
A business cannot satisfy all its customers.
Customer A - Doesnt want to grind, demanding, whinny, impatient
Customer B - grinds, patient, competitive
Which market do you think a business will get and/or if they have to chose a target marketing campaign?
I can tell you right now, that myself and a good percentage (97%) of my fleet have left the game. Not for good, but leaving it as we know longer enjoy the direction and focus of this game. Its become to the point that it feels like a 2nd job. And yes I have taken my fair share of breaks from the game, so before someone suggests that, I'm way ahead of you. But since having my break from this game it really opened my eyes to how bad the game has become, and how other games have improved, even though they also have $$$ stores built into their game. But the way they do it.. and yes Ill be mentioning SWTOR here, they do it, in a very taste full manner.
Its just a sad sight in my view to see a game just become this bad... with such a great IP.
For those that still enjoy it.. good for you, for those moving on, best wishes.
Regards.
Loc
Uh huh. And we shall see how well this game does now over how the game used to be. You know, no pressure, a fun casual experience that wasn't overly serious, as opposed to now where you need to grind well beyond what would typically be expected for triviality. Have fun with that I guess?
E: ITT the people in this thread defending these business practices https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1_ZEL0ehkE
In The Old Republic Online, I have to buy "hypercrates" (a kind of lockbox) or buy a random set of dyes and can hope that maybe I get the colors I want.
Alright! You managed to pick the one aspect of STO that is still fun, the Tailor! Good for you Glen Coco! You go Glen Coco!
Give it time, "Costume change? That'll be 600 Dil! Please wait twenty hours for the tailor to complete your ensemble."
Also, my entire set of Mandalorian armor plus red and black dyes was 150K credits on SWTOR, why would I ever need to change?
SWTOR doesn't have the tailor options that STO has obviously, but there's so many choices in clothing, that you can literally mix and match all kinds of different outfits to get what you desire. Trust me.. I love playing around with stuff like that.. like I did in STO.
As for the dye kits, not sure what your talking about but any dye kit that is dropped from hypercrates can be purchased right of the exchange for in game currency.. sooo.. yeah no biggy. Find the color you want and buy it. There not that expensive, cept for the black/black can be, but I bought one the other night for not a bad price.
And.... don't kid yourself. Do you know how many bugs the tailor has in STO. Go look in the art section at things that still haven't been fixed.. clipping issues.
Thanx, I put it on when I did enjoy this game.. though I promised a buddy Id never remove it.. was tempted to but eh I'm never on the forums anymore, view it at times but don't post so wasn't a big deal :P but yeah ty
All of this so much. You'd be a real idiot to shortchange exactly what you can do with the adaptive armors on SWTOR. Don't get me wrong, I do think STO has a better tailor system, but I'm sorry, looking good while I'm having to play this Asianstyle MMO like a second job doesn't inspire me to do backflips and huzzahs from my gaming chair.
At this point Grand Theft Auto Online pays out better than STO and that is really something.
Oh adaptive armors have come along ways. Most of the heavy armor/medium armor parts are all in their now so really you could have a heavy armored looking jedi if you wanted too lol. Sometimes in pvp ill see a trooper fully geared... oh its not a trooper is a jedi lol.
Oh yeah for sure, sto has a great tailor option. Its one of its big positives but... no "movie" shots during a conversation to literaly see you in it. Other then standing around ESD zooming and going.. wow that does look good. I love that about SWTOR. Watching a scene and your guy looken tip top while chatting away.. ahh
Yeah.. kinda sad really.
Swtor has things STO has but STO gives more for nothing. The games needs to make money some how and I would MUCH prefer the game the way it is now to what SWTOR is and locking content behind pay walls.
CRUISERS NEED A 206% HULL BUFF
Very sad. I bought collectors edition SWTOR and was super dissapointed at launch and didn't play it again. They adapted to the demands of their playerbase, gave real content, real answers, inside looks, and worked with their fans to create something special. Sadly, STO is going the other direction right now, and as a LTS person I've proven I care enough about the game and been around long enough to say these scamming obfuscated grinding systems are pretty wack.
Also, empireofsteve, SWTOR's space combat is better than here. On there a pilots skill actually matters. It isn't a click game for mathletes. GSF is balls to the wall action, and a lot of people just can't handle it so they want it nerfed, but luckily GSF isn't making the mistakes made here on space combat, it is staying a game of skill, not numbers.
On there, I can't describe the rush of fully opening the throttle on your strike fighter, pelting the distant Republic gunship with your ion cannons decimating their shields, you see a bright light as the gunship takes its shot, a quick barrel roll to the left and back on target, quad lasers activated and dump the full bank of them into the gunship. At this point the Jedi coward is fleeing, but not fast enough. What is that? I have proton missile lock? Oh yes. A kill. It wasn't cheap, it wasn't a clicksoup, and it was not a game of numbers. What it was was iron resolve, steady reflexes and knowing your ship.
The most ironic part is that I told people on SWTOR all the time how great STO was and how giving and relaxed the structure is. Their response? "That's PWE, give it time!" Boy were they right.
No, they didn't. CBS still has the rights they just let Paramount make movies. The reason there is no Star Trek show is that CBS doesn't want to make one.
If customer A types are employeed and customer B types are kids/chronic F2Pers, then its pretty obvious, no?
I don't want to grind because I have a job, a job that pays well. I work a lot of hours a week, I get home and have a limited time to play that isn't AFK, I don't want to grind, I want to have fun. I have no issues paying for something that makes the game I play even more fun for me, I have serious issues paying for constant upgrades, ships, whatever, over and over and over and over, its not fun..
While I do agree with the OP in some regards, there may be some rose coloured glasses on about SWTOR. The thing I agree with the most is that Cryptic's business model in STO is so stale it isn't funny, the money all comes in from gambling and ships, and gambling on ships, in all this time its just been pouring on more and more onto the same exact system, they've pushed it so far that even the gamblers are pushing back, and that is rare.
Cryptic should have started developing player housing sometime after S6, the items, services and upgrades sellable on those systems are nearly endless, usually without feeling repressive.
Of course my biggest concern, like all systems that get developed (including starbases) is that they are the flavour of the season and then dropped and not supported, updated or barely acknowledging they exist after that.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
His type A and B garbage was so dismissive it really didn't need further investigation did it? To link it to people's socioeconomic status is even further pointless. You don't have to be unemployed to know when buying something is a bad deal because they have rigged the system to try to make you give them money. I spend when I feel my value is being met.
Trust me, there are no rose colored glasses involving SWTOR, I still regularly send them e-mails about how stupid the credit limit is for people that have spent money on their game. Other than that? I can find no major faults with the game, their dev team is very communicative, the Cartel system is very intuitive, allows for account unlocks, can be purchased from the AH etc.
Everything else you said I completely agree on. However take Rift, Dimensions are one of its most popular, touted, and enjoyed features. Nothing stale or abandoned, in fact they are working on making them even better as they are so wildly popular and bring in lots of bank. Want more item slots? Rift Credits. Bickety bam, profit.
I've heard a lot more negatives on SWTOR from others is all I'm saying. Most describe it as nearly as money intensive as STO (pre-DR, nothing competes now.) Maybe they've fixed those problems, I don't know, haven't heard much in the last 6 months or so.
Playing Rift now, I love the dimensions, the scope of them is.. overwhelming. I think the limits on the characters (you can't sit on things or interact unless you emote and hope to land in the right spot) is their killer. Some people make massively complex, creative and artistic spaces; I think if they were a little less static people would be happy.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
Any less complex and the dimension system becomes really lame. Rift is the bare minimum for what should be done with player housing. I suspect STOs would be fine if done like SWTORs, the hook system is so boring, but it works for people who aren't creative and complain that they can't create the incredible morphed objects Rift's dimension system allows. I have no problem with the hook system, but Rifts is how it should be. You can literally make anything you want on Rift with a good imagination.
Rift does really need the ability to fish in dimensions, add NPCs and interact with furniture though, you hit the nail on the head there.
I know this is a little late but:
Customer B: loser sitting in his moms basement unable to move under his own girth!
Fixed that for you.Sorry buddy but if you think for one second that the casuals arent the bread and butter, look at every other MMO out there, and honestly even this one. They all cater to us when we get fed up enough to leave. Perhaps you forget the quick nerfs after DR with the STFs? Yeah, just because you can play 22 hours a day in your sad little world, the majority are people that have an hour or two a night and dont want to make a video game the only thing they have. So please go away, grown folks are talking.
Sorry no. I dont even classify STO Forum whinners as casuals.
Casuals and Rpers shouldnt care about dili sinks, getting the specialization immediately.
The problem and the complainers are the population in between real casuals/rpers and hard core gamers. Trying to claim to be casuals but want all the stuff and skills of a hard core gamer. You guys wont get 171k DPS nor finish missions in 55 secs. It is the discipline of repitition/perfecting a mission. It is the one thing common about Forum complainers, lack of discipline.
But your comparison of customer is stereotypical of a certain group. If you go to Asia, grinders arent like that. They are ordinary men and women. It just so happened thats how to play.
In any case, forums are the worst place to know what the population wants. Disastisfied customers go to STO Forums to rant and whine. Satisfied customers dont even go to the forums at all.
More like the wall text of truth you put into words how everyone feels except for the fanboys and white knights.
ALSO offer a low-cost sub where those perks and a few more are included with the $12-15 a month fee.
It would be a win/win for both Cryptic and the players...
"Everyone" classified Based on forum whinning? On your fleet? On your channel?
Where do you guys even get the baseless statistics for that?
Too much propaganda too less facts.
There is a reason why you get more chance to communicate with dev at twitter than STO Forums or why the PWE/Cryptic base their decisions on metrics rather than STO forum whinning.
Dunno if it's still there, but it was a good p2win. Sure, you were able to obtain them ingame, but grinding the same content several hours per day for months is not that fun.
Anyway, I suppose the SWTOR cash shop is fine now, besides the p2win ships upgrades.
The f2p vs sub is a giant slap in the face however. I guess we have the exact opposite in sto. Being a sub doesn't award much over f2p, but you have money grab everywhere else.
That is assuming that you like PvP. If you only do PvE, then SWTOR's space combat is limited to a rail shooter. So SWTOR's space combat is better and worse than STO's space combat. Also, SWTOR suffers from the same problem as STO where certain ships are only available through the Cartel Market. However with STO, I can use my C-Store ship in PvP and PvE content while SWTOR is limited to PvP content.
There is also the problem that if you are a F2Per, then you have to wait months for certain content to become available compared to subscribers. F2Pers are second-class citizens in that game..