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Oddy Tac Cruiser Build Help
yamashiro1
Member Posts: 15 Arc User
Happy New Year all. I have been reading posts on the forums around how to build a good A2B cruiser to get some ideas and now I am ready to try. I am an old time player who returned to the game a short while ago and I am ready to learn how to make an effective beam boat A2B cruiser build (which I hear is the way to go).
Here is what I have to build with:
1. 450,000 Fleet Credits
2. 370,000 Refined Dil
3. Borg console and cutting beam
4. 3 purple technician DOFFS from the B'tran cluster (just got the last one today!)
5. Solanae 4 piece space set from the missions (is this really any good though?).
6. 1 Ultra rare fleet RCS engineering console which is the only decent one I have
So my questions are:
1. What good space sets should I be looking at? I was thinking the Dyson 4 piece set as it seems to be "shield" boost oriented.
2. What should I put in for my two other DOFF slots aside from the 3 tech DOFFs?
3. What would be a good A2B rotation and in what order for the BOFF skills? Currently I have the following rotation all set up on the space bar keybind which I read about here on the forums):
EPS1, TT1, APB1, EPW3, DEM3, BO1, A2B1, A2B1 (do I need two A2B copies? not sure how that works)
4. What consoles are good to get?
5. What beam arrays should I be looking at? I was thinking of going plasma with the Romulan rep beam array. Any thoughts are welcome.
Thank you in advance for the help.
Here is what I have to build with:
1. 450,000 Fleet Credits
2. 370,000 Refined Dil
3. Borg console and cutting beam
4. 3 purple technician DOFFS from the B'tran cluster (just got the last one today!)
5. Solanae 4 piece space set from the missions (is this really any good though?).
6. 1 Ultra rare fleet RCS engineering console which is the only decent one I have
So my questions are:
1. What good space sets should I be looking at? I was thinking the Dyson 4 piece set as it seems to be "shield" boost oriented.
2. What should I put in for my two other DOFF slots aside from the 3 tech DOFFs?
3. What would be a good A2B rotation and in what order for the BOFF skills? Currently I have the following rotation all set up on the space bar keybind which I read about here on the forums):
EPS1, TT1, APB1, EPW3, DEM3, BO1, A2B1, A2B1 (do I need two A2B copies? not sure how that works)
4. What consoles are good to get?
5. What beam arrays should I be looking at? I was thinking of going plasma with the Romulan rep beam array. Any thoughts are welcome.
Thank you in advance for the help.
Post edited by yamashiro1 on
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http://gateway.startrekonline.com/#char%28Kintisho@Kintisho%29/ship-equipment
Beam overload? not generally worth it with beam arrays, maybe with dual beam banks, but go with BFAW instead with beam arrays.
A2B tac oddy bridge officer setup should look a bit like.....
LT Tac TT1, APB1
CDR Eng ET1, A2B1, EPTW3, DEM3
LT Sci HE1, ST2
LCDR Uni EPTS1, A2B1, RSP2
ENS Uni BFAW1
You will want to add 1 conn officer to your active duty space roster to reduce tac team cooldowns since A2B won't do enough to tactical team, even with 3 purple technicians.
As far as activation order, try cycling these whenever possible... TT1, EPTW, EPTS, A2B. If you stay close to baddies all the time, add in BFAW too.
As for gear, CRTDx weapons are your targets. Antiproton, Rom plasma and disruptors are great, for nearly any build.
The solanae set you have is good and useable right now, though a couple of 2 piece rep sets can be better. try the Counter command deflector and warp core with the nukara engine and shields as a target. If you go with antiproton weapons, you;ll want the obelisk warp core instead for the AP boost.
I hope that helps....
Ignore this. The Tac- and Sci- Oddys are amongst top Fed Cruisers for damage potential.
The post says it's for a tac oddy. Help the OP with what he asked for instead of getting off topic. Start a best ship discussion as it's own thread instead if you'd like.
Thanks.
Ya beat me to it! Argh!
This is totally correct, and I can tell you that cbrjwrr knows exactly what he's talking about.
Thing is, they're tops when not running Aux2Bat. The Tac Oddy is a fine ship. The OP seems to be set on Aux2Bat and that's perfectly fine. There are other options, but Aux2Bat is also perfectly valid. To get top DPS out of the Odyssey though, Aux2Bat is not the optimal route.
That being the case..
There is no wrong answer here. There are a lot of ways you can go with space sets, the Dyson is nice but has a heavy defensive focus. I would suggest you look at your overall performance and see what you most want to improve. If you want to boost damage, it depends on what type of weapons you run. For example, if you run Phasers, the Undine Set offers some nice bonuses, Nukara for Tetryon, Romulan stuff for plasma, etc.
On my Cruiser (Guardian) I run Nukara Impulse/Deflector with Elite Fleet Warp and Adapated M.A.C.O. Shields. I find it a good balance, but again it depends on what you're trying to do.
The Tech doffs are all that's required, I generally liked to use DoFFs that improved non tactical cooldowns. Your techs bonus will keep your tactical abilities on short cool down, so I personally used one to reduce cooldown for Engineering Team (for hull heals and fix offline systems) and another to reduce cooldown on Evasive Maneuvers. These 2 slots really are up to your personal taste.
I would absolutely run 2 copies of Aux2Bat you will need 2 to get the full cooldown bonus. The order for your keybind should be emergency powers first, followed by attack pattern(s), Fire At Will, Energy Modulation, and then your 2 copies of Aux2Bat. Make sure your Aux2Bat skills are last in the rotation to trigger the cooldown bonus.
I'll answer these together. I recommend Romulan Plasma based on my personal results. Generatlly speaking Plasma and Antiproton are considered the 2 'best' based on damage dealing ability. If you go Romulan Plasma, you can use the Romulan Experimental Beam in conjuction with the Zero Point console for the 7.6% damage boost. You can also grab some science consoles from your fleet embassy that will increase plasma damage as well as increase or reduce threat depending on your taste. Engineering wise, I like the Fleet Neutronium Alloy consoles but using more then 2 isn't worth it due to diminishing returns on defensive value. The Assimilated Console is a must if you're using the Cutting Beam, and I also like the Nukara Console for the +10% Beam Accuracy.
For your tactical consoles, I recommend the Vulnerability Locators from your Fleet Spire. I run those to up Critical Chance and then get the Romulan Plasma beams with CritD x 2 for increased severity when you do crit.
You can make an Aux2Bat Odyssey a pretty capable ship. It won't be the best, but it will be pretty good. If you're ever interested in getting more out of the ship and want to explore the idea of getting away from Aux2Bat, let us know.
Beat this, then.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
A FAHCR was good a few years back. Same for the FACR. Now, with (F)T-5U? Oddy crushes them. Only circumstances when they compare is if you A2B your Fed Cruiser, and no serious PvE damage dealing build uses A2B since Season 9, it is a massive self nerf these days.
It is all in Boff skills. You see, the point is you want to have max uptime on Tac Team, weapon skill, and attack pattern. Cannons or beams.
For a Fed Cruiser, the best layout possible is Lt. Cm. Tac, Lt. Tac, Ens. Tac, Com. Eng, Lt. Sci.
2xTT1, 2x BFAW, 2xAPB/1xAPB 1x APO.
FACR-U can do it, but not without losing the Sci slots - FAHCR-U cannot do it at all. Sure, you can mitigate those losses, there are plenty of methods to do it, but those methods either take very valuable resources or use Reciprocity, meaning in both cases they cannot match the Oddy.
And as for the Avenger, well, 5 DBB/3 Omni trick, but if you want to go Beam Arrays the same applies.
Now, if you want to fly an Excelsior or Sovvy feel free, they still have massive RP value, but they are inferior as ships now. At least you can still go massive spike for the Gal-X...
And, we haven't even considered the Guardian yet, and by just existing it makes a FACR-U with Uni set to Sci irrelevant as the Sci-uni FACR-U only has one Tac console in its favour. And that isn't that much of an advantage across an entire build.
And back to our Oddys for a moment, the Sci Oddy-U Sensor Analysis has already been demonstrated to be worth the Tac Oddy-Us two Tac console advantage.
ETA - as conviently linked by jarvisandalfred. (who incidentally, is one of STO's best shipbuilders)
The guy said an Oddy was fit only for scrap, which is total bulldroppings, while also saying one of the Cruisers made essentially obsolete except for RP value by the current T5-U/T6 selection of ships was better at damage.
And you want to just allow that?
Now, for A2B Oddy-Us vs A2B FACR-Us and FAHCR-Us it is far more comparable, but that is because to A2B an Oddy means breaking down its ability to double up tac boff powers, and you shouldn't do that.
What the OP should do is go:
TT1, BFAW2, APO1, OR, TT1, APB1, BFAW3, (The former is higher damage, the latter far cheaper to make work but still kicks out decent numbers)
TT1,
BFAW1, APB1,
EPTS1, RSP/A2D/DEM1, EPTW3, A2SIF3,
HE1, ST2/TSS2,
And slot 3/2 blue/VR Damage Control Engineers for EPTX cooldowns, and two Zemoks for attack pattern cooldowns, if TT1, BFAW2, APO3, or no Zemoks for TT1, APB1, BFAW3.
Or, buy a Phantom, max its starship mastery for Reciprocity, make a few alterations to your Oddy to make it get missed more to proc Reciprocity, and go:
TT1, BFAW2, APO1,
TS1*, APB1,
EPTS1, RSP/A2D/DEM1, EPTW3, A2SIF3
HE1, ST2/TSS2,
Ens. Sci skill of choice. I would pick PH1.
Note: TS1 is only here to proc Inspirational Leader Trait. Don't have that? Ignore this Ens slot, or go TT1 just in case Reciprocity doesn't bing it on global. ETA - if you do go TS or THY, Don't put a Torp on a beam boat, it is a net damage loss to do that.
And, if anyone questions the validity of spending 3k Zen on a Phantom just for a trait, it really is that good. Assuming you can get your defence high enough.
As always, all advice subject to the OP being able to fly straight.
As i have said be fore to help some one you must first tell them the truth and the truth is the oddy cannot cut DPS, i have had guys from the 50K group running the numbers on an oddy build and at bets its a solid 15 - 20K so they say F_HaC_U 18 - 24k and F_AC_u 18 - 25k.
This information is not from me but from several members from the 50K damage team.
for the attention of cbrjwrr teh F_HaC_R will always be a good ship & dose not need to run an A2B to put out good damage.
No, you were, and are, talking unsubstantiated TRIBBLE. Same for your fellow incompetent - FACR only good for 25k? Even my useless piloting skills could do 25k on Mk XII equipment, someone who can actually fly straight could break 40k on pre-DR stuff.
People smashed 40k DPS on Oddys, and Avengers for that matter, pre-DR. Post-DR Tac and Sci Oddys have been taken to 70k+ DPS. (and, apparently, Ezriryan has recent sourced a Tac Oddy, so who knows how far he will get it)
FACR? FAHCR? They used to be good but are not good now. You could build one to do 60k, but for the same investment you could do 70k plus on an Oddy.
Hell, some people are pugging 50k DPS Oddy-Us.
The only way a FACR or FAHCR can be made comparable to an Oddy is if all three are A2Bed, and you shouldn't A2B nowadays as it is suboptimal, and anyway, an Oddy should never be A2Bed in the first place, it doesn't need or want it.
And those third of a posts are wrong, and deserve to be called out as such.
An Avenger could beat the Oddy - Mk XIV Epic Antiproton [CrtD]x4 5 DBB, 3 Omni trick, probably 90k DPS - but a FACR or FAHCR could not.
The link posted was posted by someone who taught me quite a bit of what I know, the actual thread was made by a player who can back up their Oddy as a 70k plus DPS Oddy, and if you bothered to even read the thread you would see the combat log data. (amongst a lot of other useful stuff OP, that thread is very much worth you looking at and understanding.)
You however, are bandying numbers around even a Mirror Star Cruiser Pre-DR, on Mk XII stuff has beaten. In fact, it was done by the very person who made the linked thread.
Said Mirror Star Cruiser link: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1155351
Fleet Galaxy is discussed further in.
On the other hand if the OP already has the Technicians why not use them, particularly since he doesn't list having an Amp core in his resources and so wouldn't miss the aux. Even just a single copy would put most stuff to global and not have to use all his universal slots on so many tac skills its practically an escort, build a more flexible ship instead of nothing but another cookie-cutter beam spammer. Plus since it'd be out of parts he already has, he could put it together now instead of having to waste time and money farming stuff. Something to be said for ease of use after all, and having a little variety instead of the irritating "optimize or GTFO" trend.
Also Nukara Traits.
Also A2D/A2SIF.
Also nearly all Sci Skills are affected by it.
Also HE1 being a heal and not just a debuff cleanse.
Also all the other stuff that makes A2B a severe downside that I CBA to list.
The only advantage a dual-A2B Oddy would have is ET1 and a Lt. Cm. Eng ability - neither is worth the cost. Single A2B means your lt. Cm. still needs to be an Eng or a Tac for uptimes, so you aren't actually better off.
RSP2, DEM2 are not worth an APO1 or BFAW3, and hull heals are more than adequately served by A2SIF3 and HE1 so ET1 is unnecessary (EPTX of course being sorted in both cases)
A non-A2B full Tac unis Oddy is just as flexible as your proposed A2B one is. Only it is more effective while doing it.
Also, the OP has aready done their farming - 3 Blue DCEs is enough to make it work, and they are 1-2 million EC each. It would need farming for Zemoks to go APO1 route, but dual APB isn't too far off and can be done far more easily.
For gear I recommend keeping you borg assimilated module and kinetic cutting beam and adding the romulan experimental beam array and the zero point console. Also get a plasma damage boosting console of your choice from the fleet embassy. Get 1 or 2 neutronium alloy consoles from your fleet dilithiun mine. Tac consoles should be the plasma boosting vulnerability locators from the fleet spire. Since you don't have the resources for a plasmonic leech, I recommend the MACO shield.
For weapons I am obviously recommending to add 6 plasma beam arrays, romulan plasma arrays not essential but quite good. If you spot a plasma beam array on the exchange that you like and can afford feel free to use it.
BOFFs for A2B:
Tac Lt: TT, APB
Eng CMDR: ET, A2B, EP2W, DEM/Aux2SIF
Sci Lt: HE, ST
Uni LTC (Eng): EP2S, A2B, RSP
Uni Ens (Tac): BFAW
DOFFs: your 3 technicians plus whatever you have to improve your BOFF abilities
Now IMO you will be better off without A2B, so food for thought:
Tac Lt: TT, A2B
Eng CMDR: ET, EP2S/W, EP2W, DEM/Aux2SIF
Sci Lt: HE, ST
Uni LTC (Tac): TT, APB, BFAW
Uni Ens (Tac): BFAW
EP2S2 vs EP2W2 and DEM vs Aux2SIF depend on what you feel you need more as you play.
First of all, I realize that there are other ships out there and I even have the T6 ones from the delta pack that I bought with all the free monthly zen that had build up. I flew some of them and I will probably go back to flying them later (that will be another thread later on!!) but first I wanted to finish my oddy setup and really give that a try and learn more about the mechanics of the game before I get into T6 and the new intel powers. I did unlock all the mastery traits on the T6s that I have though.
Lots of good advice here, especially the consoles and now I know what to get. I will look at the sets more and look at what I can do. If I have time and the marks I might just buy a few and see!
I also really appreciate the A2B rotation and I will look at that in more detail and experiment. You guys have given me a good start to look at though. If you guys have any other ideas for a good non A2B build that deals out the damage let me know. I just went A2b because that was all I really knew worked (or at least have have seen a lot of posts on in the past).
Thanks all.
Actually I was thinking something a little weirder
EPTS1/A2B1/EPTW3/DEM3
ET1/A2D1/RSP2
ST1/HE2
FAW1/APB1
TT1
3 Technicians, A2D doff, TT doff, RSP doff (or Marion if ya can afford it)
Still get 4 amps and full heals 2/3 of the time, and when A2B is active you trade a couple percent damage boost for ~30 or more overcap space (or whatever derives from your particular aux setting). Aux batteries if a heal is absolutely needed while aux is unavailable, and with the A2B+A2D combo, while they don't synch quite perfectly (you get some overlap weirdness about once a minute or so) its pretty close and gets good hull resistances and decent mobility. I run that on my Gal-X and it worked noticeably better than a dual A2B setup, so maybe its not super perfect but I fail to recognize what makes it severe fail?
A2B/A2D hybrids can work - my Vulcan main uses it for times when I fancy having Sci skills on my ACR - but on an Oddy it works better Lt. Cm. as a Tac.
What it comes down to is every part you can do has an opportunity cost - what you are trying to set up is you have enough survivability to not blow up, while doing enough damage to make other stuff blow up.
Now, because of how you can use Aux power, A2B presents a suite of flaws that mean if you can run 5 or 6 Tac abilities you actually lose damage via running A2B.
A2B/A2D inherently runs lower DPS than both dual-A2B and non-A2B, so if you want A2D (and it is nice to have the turn and resistance boost, especially when doffed) you are best off going 6 Tac boffs and putting A2D1 in your Cm. Eng.
Now, in PvP it works differently, as there is a lot more incoming damage and so you do need to actually think about more than just damage - well, in a Cruiser at least - and so A2B/A2D works better there as your operating conditions are not pure damage like PvE is.
Right tool for the right job as it were.
Also, as you bring up Marion, there is so much power around now and so much passive drain resistance, that he has really lost what made him so useful not long ago. He isn't worth the pricetag he was last time I checked the asking prices...
Yeah but how much of a 'suite of flaws' does it make? There's lots of talk about 'a2b noobs' in some threads I've seen, but I've never seen an apples to apples numbers comparison. In my own experiences, yeah I don't bother with a parser (I'm a laid-back pilot so the lulls would kill the 'per second' side of the measurement, and the fast flight style annoys me anyways), but when I used SB234 as a rough timer the difference between dual A2B, A2B + A2D, and DCEs + double-ups was margin-of-human-error of 3-4 seconds at most. That small a difference I could care less, and the hybrid gave me CD reduction on DEM, RSP, ET, and ST and made survival a lot easier when runs went bad and I needed to soak significant abuse for a minute or three. I'm not claiming it to be The Best way (its an RPG; there shouldn't be a Best anything), but that it does have valid uses depending on what ones own piloting style and goals are.
I'm glad to help. Jot down the info on a non-A2b tac oddy, especially if you got that T6 mastery trait from the Phaontom, reciprocity, so you can make the switch to that non A2B setup when you are ready to give it a try.
Split it up to make it easier for me...
There are a lot of reasons not to go A2B. A lot. See further down.
They are referring to it as a no-skill ability, not the fact it isn't as good. Usually also including "Scimitard" or similar.
That isn't what makes the difference - you are quite correct, all boff skills will drop to levels affected by margins of human error, it is the point of reducing Boff ability cooldowns to global. It is the way A2B does it vs non-A2B set ups which make A2B inferior.
For a start, straight away it reduces by a quarter* [AMP] and ruins the Nukara Space Traits, so your damage loses a couple of per cent straight away. And don't think your sacrificed Aux will help damage, as you can easily overcap weapons power such it never drops below 125, meaning your Aux is only boosting shields and Engines - and TBH, they don't matter once you get to a certain point - so, it directly becomes a net damage loss.
We've only just started here - I could go on. The point is, A2B does work, but it doesn't work as well as the alternatives to it, especially not in terms of damage. And damage is what means PvE gets completed quicker.
Plus, the fact is if you melt stuff faster, it has less time to hurt you, meaning you need even less survivability as you do more damage.
Now, last time I covered this, A2B Scims were 40k or so max, non-A2B peaked at 89k. I haven't re-checked since DR, but the gap is even less in A2B's favour.
Yep, it does have its uses. PvP and starter PvE builds mainly - but no min-maxed PvE DPS build has used A2B since Season 9.
* I say it quarter, it is actually worse as each [Amp] stacks on the other [Amp]. And stacks on other stuff too, see linked thread earlier, there is quite a discussion on it.
NOTE: Cut short due to real life stuff.
At the risk of sounding like a suck up, I can tell you that cbrjwrr knows what he's talking about. He helped me with my build and the results were undeniable. While I still tend to tell people to use Aux2Bat if they like it, I don't encourage it. It works, but you can do better. I would go into all the reasons, but cbrjwrr pretty much took care of most of it in the post above mine.
The nicest part about non Aux2Bat for me has been the increase in variety in what I can do. I found that in a lot of ships I was forced to use Universal BoFF Stations for Engineering just so I could have the 2 copies of Aux2Bat and still have other abilities that I needed. It's also allowed me to get more out of my science stations from Hazard Emitters (in Aux2Bat it's a cleanse only, non Aux2Bat it's also a hull heal,) Gravity Well, etc.
I threw something together as a sample build of what I would do with the ship. Before you click it, a quick disclaimer..
I don't claim to be the absolute best at this game. The sample provided is based on my personal taste and is a balanced DPS ship that can also take a beating. At first glance, it will look light on Tactical Stations, but I did this for a reason. Since you have the Reciprocity trait, doubling up Tactical Abilities will often times end in one (or more) of your BoFF skils going to waste. Because of that, I opted to use the Lt. Com Universal station for Science to give you access to Gravity Wells.
I filled in Traits and Skills as well, the build uses (requires) Reciprocity. Without it, I would use the Lt. Com Universal for doubling up Tactical Abilities. DoFF's are in the Notes section.
Non Aux2Bat Sample Build.
Again, it can be fine tuned to taste, this is just my personal taste and a good, well rounded build for the ship. Adjustments can be made for higher DPS if need be.
If you're still using the Keybind, order would be EP2W3,EP2S2,APB1,APAlpha,BFAW1. If you want, you can throw the Subspace Field Modulator after that and the Fleet Support ability as well so it will trigger if you take 50% hull damage.
[Edit] - The Aux2Sif might be redundant considering you have ET and Polarize Hull. Feel free to swap that for Directed Energy Modulation if you want a little more offensive punch.
Reciprocity changes the build options considerably. That was not mentioned in the opening of this thread.
Quarters??? I just did a quick check of my one of my ships in ESD orbit, adjusting traits and power settings, and didn't see anything nearly so dramatic.
Phaser DHC Mk12 dps, 125 weapon energy, no buffs active,(+percent increase over base)
0 Amp: 1323.6
1 Amp: 1347.3 (+1.79%)
2 Amp: 1372.7 (+3.71%)
3 Amp: 1399.9 (+5.76%)
4 Amp: 1429.2 (+7.98%)
4 Amp + Nukara Offense trait (Aux 82): 1493.8 (+12.86%)
So by running 3 amps (most any A2B ship could do, though this particular ship wasn't A2B) as opposed to the maxed out 4 amps, I'd be giving up ~7% of my offense to pick up assorted other stuff. It might be different than your choice, but I fail to see how that makes me no-skill.
Well, all I did is ask questions of the right people, pick up little bits here and there, figure out how the best guys were doing what they did and why they did it.
And then totally fail to use any of it myself for several reasons*, mostly related to CBA to grind, not able to fly straight, and most importantly my laptop being unable to even manage to display my own weapons fire.
No, it really is THAT bad - My Sci Vulcan T'Rebek's build, which is the one I have put the most effort into** should be 15k-20k plus old ISE even with a numpty aboard it, but graphics issues mean it barely does 8k old ISE. I haven't actually taken it into an ISA yet.
In CCE it once did 1k DPS, despite always being within 1.5km of the Entity, purely down to it only rendering one shot of one beam per second due to graphics lag...
Very frustrating.
* Keep it around for others to use though.
** Effort is a very loose term when we are talking an A2B/A2D hybrid build which started B'Tran back in Season 8 and I still haven't bothered to actually get my first Ten of Ten.
See the bit you cut, I hadn't finished that one yet.
In any case, A2B is usually described as skillless spacebar spam even though it isn't if you want the most out of it, and your Amp isn't working right, should be closer to double what yours is.