Once again...this game is NOT PAY TO WIN. People seriously, everytime you accuse cryptic of making the game pay to win, all your doing is showing of your own lack of knoweldge of game design...a rather BASIC one and that all your thought of game design is now just null and void. If you do not know the difference between P2W and P2C then you don't know enough about game design to offer anything of import on how the game should be designed.
And no, not all the proits from a game goes back into a game. Don't be stupid. There is overhead costs for one thing. Cryptic is over here on the west coast...and our rent ain't cheap. They are also part of a bigger corp. The bigger corp will transfer money from one game to another to best increase their overall profits. This is perfectly normal and not something cryptic can control. And there is the fact that the share holder do get to keep the profits if they so choose instead of investing it back into the company. Once again, if you don't know these rather basic things and think that all the money you spend should go right back into the game...well sorry, but your just WAY too naive to have anything useful to input. And before you make comments about they don't put enough back...unless you know some details of their finacials that we the general public do not because you cryptics CFO...yeah you really don't know squat.
Wow... that was unnecessarily rude and ignorant. Mine you, i did get a little ranty, but that really doesn't need such a hostile response, whether you're a die hard yes man or not.
Firstly, the thing you're quoting had little to do with game design, but the business model if anything, so why you're being so unpleasant to some one about something they didn't even talk about, is beyond me. It does say a few things about yourself though, so you may want to be careful about that in future posts. While I'm not a game designer, I do know a few things, so we could always discuss the game design if you want, but please don't be so rude and angry over things you've made up just to make yourself feel like you're right. Maybe you shouldn't tell people they don't know squat when that's how you make your responses.
Not cool, Brah...
As i noted in my last post, which the Cryptic defenders are glossing over, is the fact that the there are options only acquired through the cash shop, things like T-6 ships, Ship upgrade tokens, or just outright buying the dilithium needed to instantly upgrade your entire ship. While you can grind your way to that over the following weeks or months, paying gets it to you instantly. If you don't buy that stuff, and go against some one who bought their way to max everything, they're going to have an advantage. That's paying to win. Yes, STO makes it so the better you captain can beat a terrible captain who paid their way to the top, but at the same time you don't need to be Charlie Sheen to see that still being able to pay your way to the top is still winning. Paying real money for an advantage over those who don't pay is still winning. Not everyone flys 50k DPS ships, not everyone is so hardcore that they know how to tweak the numbers to their best. For the average player, gear is a factor. Being of average skill, the person with the better gear will get more points getting them better rewards in queued events. Being of similar captaining skill, the person in the T-6 ship with all UR XIV will have an advantage over the guy in white XII stuff on T-5 ship. Taking the captain out of the equation, say, by setting the two ships on autofire and letting them be, the paid ship will always win.
That's not even taking in to account, things like Time and Effort to actually do the grinding as opposed to just instantly having the same results for real money. So the more money you pay, the less time you have to spend, the less effort you need to grind, and the better you are...
That's pay to win.
Yes, being a great Captain has a huge influence, and yes, you can spend months grinding your way to the top, but being able to spend the real money to circumvent that sounds a lot like winning to me.
This is kind of how I feel too. People were mostly upset when this went live because Cryptic jacked the prices higher after it went live, buying themselves the plausible deniability "that no one complained about the costs during testing." I doubt they would pull that card... no, i don't really doubt they wouldn't do that, i just hope they really wouldn't, but they totally can. They know people weren't happy about the price raise for upgrading. They know that people are unhappy with a lot of the things they're doing business wise. They just don't care. As a company, they. just. don't. care.
They hide behind the metrics, that they won't even share. They're riding the whales and using the cash flow to justify their actions.
Also not cool, Brah...
There are better ways to get people to log in and play. More so with an IP as loved as Star Trek. Cryptic just doesn't do it. It's easier to milk the IP than to build a strong game, and that's all they've been doing. There are trek fans at Cryptic, there are a lot of great people working there who genuinely care about the fans and want nothing but to make a great Star Trek experience for them. It's just a shame that they're unable to do so for company reasons, be it PWE's decisions or Cryptics, but their hands are tied and the game suffers because of it.
the upgrade system is a great idea being bogged down by greed and poor decisions. I should be encouraged to upgrade because it's fun and easy, not discouraged because it's way to expensive and time locked (unless i pay).
Did you feel similarly cheated when you first brought your ship to Mark XII, pre Delta Rising? Did you do that over 2-3 months or did you need longer for that?
Before DR I have bought a few dozen ships most with positive results...A few I felt I was cheated out of my money like the Galaxy class
However I bought that ship before I really understood the game
but feeling cheated with the upgrade system yes I feel cheated and restriced to one weapons and equipment set
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The system IS working as intended! For 99.9% of the games population they don't need anything beyond mk12 VR. I have upgraded a most things to 13 or 14 and that is already overkill for most of the games pop. And making a change to a profitable system for a few pvp players?? Lol what game have you been playing? Seriously the devs have given up on pvp 6 seasons ago! I gave up on it for good with the latest silliness.
Yeah but the grind is no longer possible, only as a theoretical construct in where you grind your character for 3 years - the game could even go under long before that.
And so it does fit the critera of "money only", only possible to get using money, pay2win
indeed the upgrade system is not broken, if you start with mk12 rare minimum & are happy to upgrade to mk14 with the occasional rarity boost you will find the cost of upgrading not cheep but certainly not exorbitant.
if you want to play the epic upgrade lottery that is your problem, I do very well in elite stf`s and other qued pve`s with mostly mk12 rare and below gear, once I have upgraded some of my best gear to mk14 I will be even better.
I have no interest in pvp so if the cost of playing pvp is upgrading to epic I don't really care and I think the vast majority of other players wont care either, if pvp had a decent matchmaker as it should it would not matter what level of gear you have as you would me matched against oponents with similar specs.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Over specifying a legitimate issue is just as bad as using it as a blanket term. Using real money for a clear advantage over not paying, is still considered pay to win. Minor Xp boosts are one thing, but a lot of the counter arguments seem to consist more of "Nuh-uh" than any evidence that it's not pay to win. Cryptic is specifically designing the game to make paying the preferred way to advance. That's a problem. They're not making a game to be fun or to make a great IP experience. They've pretty much said time and again, that it's all about the money. They want to make as much of it as they can, but they're putting in less than quality work to get it. If they actually took the time to put out a quality product, people would give them money just to support the game. If they had the ultimate Star Trek experience, instead of "Genocidal Grind Online" People would gladly give them money, often without needing something more in return.
That's the power of a well loved IP. Let's look at the last two films for example. Depending on where you stand, it was either a fun film that didn't stick to the IP followed by a meh sequel, or both were just terrible because of how they handled the IP. But they still got a sequel. Even the bad sequel is getting a sequel. If so many people are complaining, why is it getting another sequel?
Money.
It made money. People will spend money on it just because it's Star Trek. The people making the Movies don't really care about the IP or the fans, but the money is there, so they're going to use that to make a quick buck. They're not doing it to make a great film. They're not doing it to add to the IP (which is why putting it in and alternate universe was a smart move), they did it for money. That's all cryptic is doing. They're not in it to make a great game, and all their other games are evidence of that. They're not in it to make a great Trek game, other wise we would be doing a lot less murdering and currency hoarding. They just want to use it to make as much money as they can, regardless of what the majority of people say. Or the majority of saying people, if you go by what Cryptic says.
The fact is, they're just in it to milk the IP. The game is being designed to get you to spend money. If you have fun, that's purely an after effect or secondary issue. Money comes first. So why wouldn't it be pay to win again? Just because I don't have to pay?Just because i can't buy an instant enemy kill or some ridiculous thing as such? People are still paying to have advantages (as in more than one) over those who don't pay. So much so, that it takes weeks of work, months of grinding to even get to that same point. They even time lock their content to keep you from advancing too quickly... unless you pay... then it's all instant...
How is that not winning? Just because some one is willing to turn a blind eye to a bad business practice? Because the people who pay the money to get the best stuff say it's not P2W, knowing that Cryptic is only listening to the money?
It's pay to win, deal with it.
And if you want to argue that, there are plenty of other threads to do so in.
Staying on topic... again...
There are better ways to get people to log in and play than making them feel like they need to pay the excessive fees to upgrade. It would be cheaper in every regard to just buy the higher level items than it is to go through the upgrade system, so why would they limit people as such? Isn't that why we have the rep system? Did we really need to add a grind on top of the grind we already had for better gear? I really think they could have put the upgrade system to better use, or at least come up with a better gimmick to try and get people to log in more often. They don't need to keep adding so many systems to grind through just to make the game feel like it's fresh. The more processed a food gets, the less fresh it tastes, and I think the game is definitely suffering from that. From the sound of it, most people are already getting just the bitter taste.
On a side note, does anyone know why we can't upgrade kits and ground powers? I keep looking for something to indicate that we can, but I've not seen anything yet, nor a reason why. Do you think they'll ever let us upgrade traits to the superior versions?
I hadn't worked the upgrade past Mk XII yet. Since I only did a few items. (Mostly ground weapons.) To allow me some ground weapons I wanted. And I refused to pay the insane prices that greedy players set them at.
I built some low levels which came out (purple) quality. Then upgraded them to level of good use. For now I'm happy with what I have. But have plans to level other stuff later. But so far my gear is holding up.
Not everyone is using the Upgrade the same. To me it turned out good so far on helping me attain some ground gear I wanted. Am I'm fully happy with the system, not really. I think it could use some improvements. Hopefully in the future they will make some changes.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I have no interest in pvp so if the cost of playing pvp is upgrading to epic I don't really care and I think the vast majority of other players wont care either.
I think this bit here speaks volumes for the upgrade system. Most people feel a small compulsion to get the best gear just to have it. That sense of completion. But when a lot of them are dissuaded from doing so, you know you need to rethink something in the system.
I think this bit here speaks volumes for the upgrade system. Most people feel a small compulsion to get the best gear just to have it. That sense of completion. But when a lot of them are dissuaded from doing so, you know you need to rethink something in the system.
people are taking gear that probably should not be upgraded using that system and complaining of the results.
eg: white gear and making it epic just to say they have epic gear.
The problem is that cryptic made an open system basically allowing anyone to make anything epic which is pardon the pun kinda epic in a way. Not all gear is equal and people are leaving this part out i see a lot of people making gear epic that should probably not be upgraded because its an open system. It will settle down when people start realizing that sure you can in fact upgrade any piece of TRIBBLE and make it epic, but that doesnt mean it will be good and it certainly will be expensive.
They built the stat system and the gear system to continue on what it has been all along not all very rares or ultra rares are comparable so likewise the upgrade system fluctuates. I have also toyed with the idea of upgrading white gear just to see what would happen, but would it be reasonable for me to then complain about the cost of upgrading it? lol it was junk to start with and you know what they say about "a polished TRIBBLE". Still if you want gear labelled as epic and dont care about the end result then go for it.
I'm actually not all that upset with the design of the upgrade system. I just think it's too expensive in general.
I like it too i think its kinda neat its open ended and they are working through gear making it possible to upgrade just about anything lol. I wish I could do this to a starship it would be fun and sorta remind me of something like eve in a way, but then people would complain about 'the grind'.
I think you are focussing on the 'epic' element too much.. when I first tried to upgrade gear.. my honest first thoughts were how ridiculously expensive and consuming of diliithium the process was.. The only way I can put it is - to me it should not take 10-20 tech upgrades to up one level or 1 run at a quality upgrade (rare --> UR, mk 12 to mk 14, upgrading lobi-store items, omni-directional beams, wide arc turrets, reputation gear.. etc). For an upgrade amount of 200,000 tech points I just feel that there should be a large capacity tech upgrade available.
I think that 12,200 tech upgrade points is far too low and in my opinion is a flaw in their system.
Hence the reason, why they have tech multipliers for you to try and obtain.
It is a money driven system and, that is all it is!
It makes me think about the post Geko made about what going from Mk XII to Mk XIV would result in for weapons, where he outlined it providing a +60% combined boost to damage Strength. With his talking previously about the doubling of it matching the increased cost, one could see where with Mk I-XII providing +10%, that Mk XIII would provide +20% and Mk XIV would provide +40%...to give us that +60%. However, er, uh, well, um, they didn't give us +60% going from Mk XII to Mk XIV. They gave us +110%...+40% with Mk XIII and +70% with Mk XIV.
This resulted in Epic looking like even more of a silly upgrade for the cost involved by comparison, eh?
Now, if they'd actually given us the +20% and +40%...adding the additional +20% from Mk XIII into UR and adding the additional +30% from Mk XIV into Epic...that might have added in some value to going Epic, eh?
I mean, seriously - outside of the folks doing the absolute min/max stuff out there, I think folks with Epic weapons deserve a costume unlock of a t-shirt for their toons that reads: "I have more cents than sense."
Work in them having probably run into fail mods on going UR and doing it over and over to get the right mod at UR before going Epic...yeah, they definitely deserve that costume unlock - and - they should be able to wear it anywhere.
What theortical construct?!? I have personally upgraded multiple sets of equipment to mk XIV. It takes me not that long and not too much EC/dil to do so. Two weeka or so and I have a set of mk XIVs.
If your talking about doing all epic...well yeah. But that super long term goal or spend tons of money is why it's there. It's so you will have an option for upward progression after three years of grinding out all your other items and ships and whatever. It's for the dragon chasers...and as long as we aren't required to dragon chase, I am okay with that.
I won't play a Pay To Win game, end of story. If it isn't fair for everyone, it isnt fair for anyone.
So...the don't do it. Why do you people have such a hard on to get everything NOW. Getting epic items should be dome when you basically have NOTHING ELSE TO DO. Otherwise, be a smart person and use your resources on what nets you better enjoyment of the game. It's not like you NEED bloody epic item anyways.
This isn't about "now", it's about the outrageous costs involved. 44 weeks would be less of a concern if the player doesn't have to grind like mad only to empty themselves of the effort on the CHANCE something good comes of it. The time is punishing considering the massive costs to upgrading.
I don't mind working for something nor do many, many others. Getting destroyed economically on *chance* makes crafting frustrating.
The worst part about it is, according to statements made by Cryptic people at various times, they seem to be completely unaware of how ridiculously expensive AND time-consuming their crafting system is. Again, time wouldn't matter so much if we didn't go broke making the attempt. I mean, I'm pulling resources from 11 geared alts and crafting is so expensive and random, I don't even waste my time on it anymore. Let's not even bring up the near-impossible to pug STFs a player needs to run to GET the materials.
TL;DR
Crafting is a punishing system for all but the biggest spenders. The masses just go broke and frustrated by grinding Argala for EC.
So...the don't do it. Why do you people have such a hard on to get everything NOW. Getting epic items should be dome when you basically have NOTHING ELSE TO DO. Otherwise, be a smart person and use your resources on what nets you better enjoyment of the game. It's not like you NEED bloody epic item anyways.
You are missing the point,the requirements in resources and time are so stupendous,that upgrading the gear on even one ship,one toon isn't feasible without spending (a lot) of cash.
And then there is the other thing....you say you don't need the epic gear,well...yeah....if you know what you are doing and have some skill playing the game you don't need them.But not all players are created equally....more than a few players need that extra bit of power the epic gear provides.
The PWE/Cryptic sweatshop...not where the game is made,but where the game is played!
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
Ladies and gentlemen I give you the stereotypical PvP player.
It's not your rarity of gears that matter, but how you fly and how your ship is set up.
the top player in the game, if I recall correctly, in terms of dps, flys a tetryon build.
To be honest, the only thing that separates gold from vr is two mods. But the thing that seperates mk xiv from mk xii is a whole lot of dps. And then we go on about the ships. t6 is so op it got banned from an unofficial tournament. All of this gear is designed to be fool proof. That way they generate sales.
Why won't you grind out all of the necessary gear pyrald? I upgraded two ships. Not too much, but still quite the grind. as for the gear mk... forgetaboutit. I'd first have to grind month after month to get the upgrade kits. Then spend all of the dilith gathered and a hefty sum of ec. My standard shall remain mk xii vr.
Why wouldn't you just pop in pyrald, yoda says it only takes a good build and skill. Right... First, if there is a peak to this learning curve, that is one heckuva learning curve. So I am stuck with getting the gear first, what a shame. Looks like pyrald won't be participating in pvp.
IT'S NOT PAY TO WIN. DEAL WITH THAT. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that just because something isn't pay to win, it isn't a BAD thing. Get over it. Neverwinter's P2C is horribly broken. You can't fix that however unless you realize that the system is a P2C and not a P2W. The same applies here. You all are under the mistaken impression that I don't wanna pay so I have to wait for the advantage is a BAD thing in a F2P game. Well, hate to break this to you, but it is actually not the case. You actually can't run a profitable F2P if the people who pay and the ones who do not all get the same thing at the same rate. If you think you can, your just WAY to naive and have no idea about how a buisness needs to be run or even the basic psyche of humans. And since other then the meager PvP, this game is a co-op game, the "winning" is even more meaningless. That said, I am not saying that the new upgrade system isn't without issues. Mainly the fact that all your fleet and special weapons and consoles and what not are BTC and thus making it utterly alt unfriendly is a rather big issue. Hell the whole DR being so alt unfriendly is a pretty big issue for the health of the game.
Oh and hate to burst your bubble, but ALL corps are here to make money. If you think the way cryptic is doing it is so aweful, then stop playing, tell all your friends to stop playing, but please, telling them to stop making money...yeah that is all sorts of stupid. Might as well tell the rain to not fall. Or play the game and don't spend any money. Tell everyone else to not spend money (good luck on that...ST fans are like crack addicts...I mean seriously, you all put my magic friends to shame on how much you all spend).
You seem to live in some sort of wonderland, where corps do the right thing instead of try to make money and somehow the customers support that choice and give them money anyways. Well, hate to tell you this, but that isn't how this world works.
Mostly mirror mogai for fun and a fleet mogai for if I am being a bit more serious...both are cannon boats (well mostly...my mirror on is quite horrible with cannon and a mine and a torp and a beam...but it is fun). I don't do horribly high DPS (although my fleet mogai is good enough for BoK). I could afford to build myself a 60k boat...but i actually quite like my mogai and have fun with them so I feel the need to do that somewhat diminished. I am intrigues by the temp sci DPS build tho. Oh and once I get my third VR tech, might start on that AP beam A2B scimmy.
VR and UR...a couple of golds...but they came that way. I will eventually start upgrades into gold. Started a few cycles on consoles already...usually when the tech upgrades reach low prices in the cycle.
Comments
Wow... that was unnecessarily rude and ignorant. Mine you, i did get a little ranty, but that really doesn't need such a hostile response, whether you're a die hard yes man or not.
Firstly, the thing you're quoting had little to do with game design, but the business model if anything, so why you're being so unpleasant to some one about something they didn't even talk about, is beyond me. It does say a few things about yourself though, so you may want to be careful about that in future posts. While I'm not a game designer, I do know a few things, so we could always discuss the game design if you want, but please don't be so rude and angry over things you've made up just to make yourself feel like you're right. Maybe you shouldn't tell people they don't know squat when that's how you make your responses.
Not cool, Brah...
As i noted in my last post, which the Cryptic defenders are glossing over, is the fact that the there are options only acquired through the cash shop, things like T-6 ships, Ship upgrade tokens, or just outright buying the dilithium needed to instantly upgrade your entire ship. While you can grind your way to that over the following weeks or months, paying gets it to you instantly. If you don't buy that stuff, and go against some one who bought their way to max everything, they're going to have an advantage. That's paying to win. Yes, STO makes it so the better you captain can beat a terrible captain who paid their way to the top, but at the same time you don't need to be Charlie Sheen to see that still being able to pay your way to the top is still winning. Paying real money for an advantage over those who don't pay is still winning. Not everyone flys 50k DPS ships, not everyone is so hardcore that they know how to tweak the numbers to their best. For the average player, gear is a factor. Being of average skill, the person with the better gear will get more points getting them better rewards in queued events. Being of similar captaining skill, the person in the T-6 ship with all UR XIV will have an advantage over the guy in white XII stuff on T-5 ship. Taking the captain out of the equation, say, by setting the two ships on autofire and letting them be, the paid ship will always win.
That's not even taking in to account, things like Time and Effort to actually do the grinding as opposed to just instantly having the same results for real money. So the more money you pay, the less time you have to spend, the less effort you need to grind, and the better you are...
That's pay to win.
Yes, being a great Captain has a huge influence, and yes, you can spend months grinding your way to the top, but being able to spend the real money to circumvent that sounds a lot like winning to me.
Also, just to keep on the topic of the thread...
This is kind of how I feel too. People were mostly upset when this went live because Cryptic jacked the prices higher after it went live, buying themselves the plausible deniability "that no one complained about the costs during testing." I doubt they would pull that card... no, i don't really doubt they wouldn't do that, i just hope they really wouldn't, but they totally can. They know people weren't happy about the price raise for upgrading. They know that people are unhappy with a lot of the things they're doing business wise. They just don't care. As a company, they. just. don't. care.
They hide behind the metrics, that they won't even share. They're riding the whales and using the cash flow to justify their actions.
Also not cool, Brah...
There are better ways to get people to log in and play. More so with an IP as loved as Star Trek. Cryptic just doesn't do it. It's easier to milk the IP than to build a strong game, and that's all they've been doing. There are trek fans at Cryptic, there are a lot of great people working there who genuinely care about the fans and want nothing but to make a great Star Trek experience for them. It's just a shame that they're unable to do so for company reasons, be it PWE's decisions or Cryptics, but their hands are tied and the game suffers because of it.
the upgrade system is a great idea being bogged down by greed and poor decisions. I should be encouraged to upgrade because it's fun and easy, not discouraged because it's way to expensive and time locked (unless i pay).
Before DR I have bought a few dozen ships most with positive results...A few I felt I was cheated out of my money like the Galaxy class
However I bought that ship before I really understood the game
but feeling cheated with the upgrade system yes I feel cheated and restriced to one weapons and equipment set
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
However since the upgrading system now effectively only is for whales you can in fact argue that STO has become pay2win
And so it does fit the critera of "money only", only possible to get using money, pay2win
if you want to play the epic upgrade lottery that is your problem, I do very well in elite stf`s and other qued pve`s with mostly mk12 rare and below gear, once I have upgraded some of my best gear to mk14 I will be even better.
I have no interest in pvp so if the cost of playing pvp is upgrading to epic I don't really care and I think the vast majority of other players wont care either, if pvp had a decent matchmaker as it should it would not matter what level of gear you have as you would me matched against oponents with similar specs.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Over specifying a legitimate issue is just as bad as using it as a blanket term. Using real money for a clear advantage over not paying, is still considered pay to win. Minor Xp boosts are one thing, but a lot of the counter arguments seem to consist more of "Nuh-uh" than any evidence that it's not pay to win. Cryptic is specifically designing the game to make paying the preferred way to advance. That's a problem. They're not making a game to be fun or to make a great IP experience. They've pretty much said time and again, that it's all about the money. They want to make as much of it as they can, but they're putting in less than quality work to get it. If they actually took the time to put out a quality product, people would give them money just to support the game. If they had the ultimate Star Trek experience, instead of "Genocidal Grind Online" People would gladly give them money, often without needing something more in return.
That's the power of a well loved IP. Let's look at the last two films for example. Depending on where you stand, it was either a fun film that didn't stick to the IP followed by a meh sequel, or both were just terrible because of how they handled the IP. But they still got a sequel. Even the bad sequel is getting a sequel. If so many people are complaining, why is it getting another sequel?
Money.
It made money. People will spend money on it just because it's Star Trek. The people making the Movies don't really care about the IP or the fans, but the money is there, so they're going to use that to make a quick buck. They're not doing it to make a great film. They're not doing it to add to the IP (which is why putting it in and alternate universe was a smart move), they did it for money. That's all cryptic is doing. They're not in it to make a great game, and all their other games are evidence of that. They're not in it to make a great Trek game, other wise we would be doing a lot less murdering and currency hoarding. They just want to use it to make as much money as they can, regardless of what the majority of people say. Or the majority of saying people, if you go by what Cryptic says.
The fact is, they're just in it to milk the IP. The game is being designed to get you to spend money. If you have fun, that's purely an after effect or secondary issue. Money comes first. So why wouldn't it be pay to win again? Just because I don't have to pay?Just because i can't buy an instant enemy kill or some ridiculous thing as such? People are still paying to have advantages (as in more than one) over those who don't pay. So much so, that it takes weeks of work, months of grinding to even get to that same point. They even time lock their content to keep you from advancing too quickly... unless you pay... then it's all instant...
How is that not winning? Just because some one is willing to turn a blind eye to a bad business practice? Because the people who pay the money to get the best stuff say it's not P2W, knowing that Cryptic is only listening to the money?
It's pay to win, deal with it.
And if you want to argue that, there are plenty of other threads to do so in.
Staying on topic... again...
There are better ways to get people to log in and play than making them feel like they need to pay the excessive fees to upgrade. It would be cheaper in every regard to just buy the higher level items than it is to go through the upgrade system, so why would they limit people as such? Isn't that why we have the rep system? Did we really need to add a grind on top of the grind we already had for better gear? I really think they could have put the upgrade system to better use, or at least come up with a better gimmick to try and get people to log in more often. They don't need to keep adding so many systems to grind through just to make the game feel like it's fresh. The more processed a food gets, the less fresh it tastes, and I think the game is definitely suffering from that. From the sound of it, most people are already getting just the bitter taste.
On a side note, does anyone know why we can't upgrade kits and ground powers? I keep looking for something to indicate that we can, but I've not seen anything yet, nor a reason why. Do you think they'll ever let us upgrade traits to the superior versions?
I built some low levels which came out (purple) quality. Then upgraded them to level of good use. For now I'm happy with what I have. But have plans to level other stuff later. But so far my gear is holding up.
Not everyone is using the Upgrade the same. To me it turned out good so far on helping me attain some ground gear I wanted. Am I'm fully happy with the system, not really. I think it could use some improvements. Hopefully in the future they will make some changes.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I think this bit here speaks volumes for the upgrade system. Most people feel a small compulsion to get the best gear just to have it. That sense of completion. But when a lot of them are dissuaded from doing so, you know you need to rethink something in the system.
people are taking gear that probably should not be upgraded using that system and complaining of the results.
eg: white gear and making it epic just to say they have epic gear.
The problem is that cryptic made an open system basically allowing anyone to make anything epic which is pardon the pun kinda epic in a way. Not all gear is equal and people are leaving this part out i see a lot of people making gear epic that should probably not be upgraded because its an open system. It will settle down when people start realizing that sure you can in fact upgrade any piece of TRIBBLE and make it epic, but that doesnt mean it will be good and it certainly will be expensive.
They built the stat system and the gear system to continue on what it has been all along not all very rares or ultra rares are comparable so likewise the upgrade system fluctuates. I have also toyed with the idea of upgrading white gear just to see what would happen, but would it be reasonable for me to then complain about the cost of upgrading it? lol it was junk to start with and you know what they say about "a polished TRIBBLE". Still if you want gear labelled as epic and dont care about the end result then go for it.
I like it too i think its kinda neat its open ended and they are working through gear making it possible to upgrade just about anything lol. I wish I could do this to a starship it would be fun and sorta remind me of something like eve in a way, but then people would complain about 'the grind'.
Hence the reason, why they have tech multipliers for you to try and obtain.
It is a money driven system and, that is all it is!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
This resulted in Epic looking like even more of a silly upgrade for the cost involved by comparison, eh?
Now, if they'd actually given us the +20% and +40%...adding the additional +20% from Mk XIII into UR and adding the additional +30% from Mk XIV into Epic...that might have added in some value to going Epic, eh?
I mean, seriously - outside of the folks doing the absolute min/max stuff out there, I think folks with Epic weapons deserve a costume unlock of a t-shirt for their toons that reads: "I have more cents than sense."
Work in them having probably run into fail mods on going UR and doing it over and over to get the right mod at UR before going Epic...yeah, they definitely deserve that costume unlock - and - they should be able to wear it anywhere.
My character Tsin'xing
I won't play a Pay To Win game, end of story. If it isn't fair for everyone, it isnt fair for anyone.
This isn't about "now", it's about the outrageous costs involved. 44 weeks would be less of a concern if the player doesn't have to grind like mad only to empty themselves of the effort on the CHANCE something good comes of it. The time is punishing considering the massive costs to upgrading.
I don't mind working for something nor do many, many others. Getting destroyed economically on *chance* makes crafting frustrating.
The worst part about it is, according to statements made by Cryptic people at various times, they seem to be completely unaware of how ridiculously expensive AND time-consuming their crafting system is. Again, time wouldn't matter so much if we didn't go broke making the attempt. I mean, I'm pulling resources from 11 geared alts and crafting is so expensive and random, I don't even waste my time on it anymore. Let's not even bring up the near-impossible to pug STFs a player needs to run to GET the materials.
TL;DR
Crafting is a punishing system for all but the biggest spenders. The masses just go broke and frustrated by grinding Argala for EC.
You are missing the point,the requirements in resources and time are so stupendous,that upgrading the gear on even one ship,one toon isn't feasible without spending (a lot) of cash.
And then there is the other thing....you say you don't need the epic gear,well...yeah....if you know what you are doing and have some skill playing the game you don't need them.But not all players are created equally....more than a few players need that extra bit of power the epic gear provides.
Take back your home,end the grind!
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To be honest, the only thing that separates gold from vr is two mods. But the thing that seperates mk xiv from mk xii is a whole lot of dps. And then we go on about the ships. t6 is so op it got banned from an unofficial tournament. All of this gear is designed to be fool proof. That way they generate sales.
Why won't you grind out all of the necessary gear pyrald? I upgraded two ships. Not too much, but still quite the grind. as for the gear mk... forgetaboutit. I'd first have to grind month after month to get the upgrade kits. Then spend all of the dilith gathered and a hefty sum of ec. My standard shall remain mk xii vr.
Why wouldn't you just pop in pyrald, yoda says it only takes a good build and skill. Right... First, if there is a peak to this learning curve, that is one heckuva learning curve. So I am stuck with getting the gear first, what a shame. Looks like pyrald won't be participating in pvp.
I wonder, what do you run?
What is the standard of gear you run?
What is your standard mk number?