Why do people hate Wes? Quark? Malcolm? Seems every trek show had one hate. I for one like Wes and I really thought Quark grew on the show.
Wesley in season 1 was intolerable, but at least he was actually pretty good in "The First Duty" and "Journey's End" (although he was a jerk in the latter, he was SUPPOSED to be, which was what saved him from going out on a scrappy note).
Quark...honestly, he just was a well-written comedian, well-acted and actually pretty powerful in certain episodes ("The House of Quark" was VERY nice, and had me in stitches and in tears throughout). People don't like him because they want to hate DS9 and they need someone to pin it on.
Malcolm...he was just...he tended to grate on the nerves. Wasn't as bad as Archer, though...my god, "A Night In Sickbay"...
He kept talking and talking and talking when he had nothing of value to say. Short of screaming children and brown-note kinda sounds, is there anything more grating than a loud mouth?
Wesley in season 1 was intolerable, but at least he was actually pretty good in "The First Duty" and "Journey's End" (although he was a jerk in the latter, he was SUPPOSED to be, which was what saved him from going out on a scrappy note).
Quark...honestly, he just was a well-written comedian, well-acted and actually pretty powerful in certain episodes ("The House of Quark" was VERY nice, and had me in stitches and in tears throughout). People don't like him because they want to hate DS9 and they need someone to pin it on.
Malcolm...he was just...he tended to grate on the nerves. Wasn't as bad as Archer, though...my god, "A Night In Sickbay"...
"The House of Quark" was indeed a very good episode! Quark really was one of my favorite characters. ("Yes, you can say it... like a Ferengi." Quark was really at his best, that way).
It's the writing. There was a lot of potential to develop his character yet maintain it as comedic relief. They never did that.
Had they gone along the lines of BSG, in which the ship slowly took damage and the characters were developed over a long arc, like SGU as well... there would had been a lot more promise... instead there was always that... reset button
Yeah the concept of storylines contained within the episode didn't work well for Voyager. Neelix suffered primarily from poor scripts, because Ethan actually does really well with the character when allowed.
At least he's pretty jovial, there are some incredibly bad characters in other Trek series, Wes Crusher for one, half the cast of TNG and it's PC TRIBBLE. DS9 was disliked because it was on a station and not a starship, yet had the same storylines as if it were in space. In the end it had the best Captain who was a lot more like Kirk than Picard! Most of the characters were pretty well fleshed out, plus Dax 1 and 2, both of whom were great!
However the character tropes for Star Trek and the acting style used was always a bit hammy. If it had a bit more gravitas and more realistic personalities for the cast instead of overblown caricatures it would be a lot more palatable for far more people.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
-he's just plain annoying. His voice, his earnestness, everything about him.
-I actually cook and have worked at catering jobs and have cooked for large groups. It is impossible for 1 person to cook 3 meals/day for 140 people (there were 4 of us on the smallest team I was ever on, and we cooked for 100. It was a full shift to do 1 meal). It is even less possible for that person to have time to go on away missions and talk with the captain and do a silly morning show. So it is downright insulting when he talks about being a cook as if it's nothing, as if anyone could just put out dishes for over a hundred people in a couple of minutes so he should be ashamed that he doesn't pull his weight on the ship. The entire thing just showed that the writers always ate at restaurants or had wives/husbands/parents who cooked for them so they had no clue how much work food preparation is.
-He was surprisingly judgmental and intolerant.
-He as supposed to be Guinan II, the wise non-starfleet person on the ship, but his character was so immature that it was never believable.
-Make-up problems
-He was supposed to be an odd couple with Tuvok, but Tuvok was kind of annoying already so it's easy to dislike them as a pair (Tuvok wasn't as bad as Neelix, but he didn't have the subtlety or charm that Spock did and just came off as a bitter old vulcan)
-In 7 seasons we never learned anything about Talaxians. It was mostly just about him, ok there was a war at some point and, oh yeah, the forest for an afterlife, but, really, compare what was written about talaxians in Voyager to what we learned about Bajorans or Trill on DS9 or Betazoids and Klingons on TNG or Vulcans on TOS.
In his defense:
-He wasn't a terrible actor. The character was just poorly written
-He got fewer episodes as the show progressed
-He wasn't Harry Kim
-I actually cook and have worked at catering jobs and have cooked for large groups. It is impossible for 1 person to cook 3 meals/day for 140 people (there were 4 of us on the smallest team I was ever on, and we cooked for 100. It was a full shift to do 1 meal). It is even less possible for that person to have time to go on away missions and talk with the captain and do a silly morning show. So it is downright insulting when he talks about being a cook as if it's nothing, as if anyone could just put out dishes for over a hundred people in a couple of minutes so he should be ashamed that he doesn't pull his weight on the ship. The entire thing just showed that the writers always ate at restaurants or had wives/husbands/parents who cooked for them so they had no clue how much work food preparation is.
On the matter of cooking. I was disappointed, in DR, that the first thing we do when we meet Neelix is food-related again. Yes, he allegedly grew as a person, now an Embassador of sorts, but cast in his cooking role again nonetheless.
*does the Hulk ending theme slow walk of shame* u.u
It's not the worst I've ever seen. The 80s had a lot of weird movies... some were weird in a good way others.... not so much. I think tha tif I had to pick one for the WTF award I'd go with Slipstream. Apparently part of why it was so bad is that they decided during filming to skip certain parts of the script entirely in order to get a lower rating.... which left gaps in the plot.
personally i like Neelix; he was better after kes' departure. the character that i don't like, is Tuvok; not only in the show but also in STO. i hate his boring and monotonous voice, + his stupid advices (in sto)
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I dont go for 6 year old girls thank you very much
Lolwut?! He said: "Y'all are just jelly cause he got to bang KES." (emphasis mine); not Naomi! There's quite a bit wrong with Jennifer Lien, though, I'll give ya that.
Why do I dislike Neelix? Hate is a strong emotion that I wouldn't waste on a fictional character or someone I don't know.
Simple answer is because he was a poorly written character. It doesn't matter how good the actor is if the writing is bad there is little he can do to make it look good. That is it no more or less.
It's the same reason the Kazon fell flat as the "Klingons of the Delta Quadrant", they were poorly written. That is why you couldn't take them seriously as the bad guys. Which is the same reason the Ferengi failed as the bad guys of TNG.
Lolwut?! He said: "Y'all are just jelly cause he got to bang KES." (emphasis mine); not Naomi! There's quite a bit wrong with Jennifer Lien, though, I'll give ya that.
Neelix is no better or worse than anyone else in Voyager, the hate is pathetically overblown.
Simple fact is that, like absolutely every one and thing in Voyager, when it sucked it plumbed new depths of suck, as opposed to the other Star Trek shows which stuck with a regular degree of sucking when they sucked.
I have almost no problem with Neelix. I hate B'elanna. The episode where she goes nuts about her baby looking a bit Klingon? She basically has an utter mental breakdown and mindrapes the Doctor, which all turns out totally fine in the end because it's totally ok to reach into the Doctor's brain and alter it, and who wouldn't want a chief engineer who had a psychotic break? Paris got demoted for the crime of "not being an evil a-hole". Going mad and assaulting crewmen is apparently fine.
I do not hate Neelix. I just feel the same way about him I do about Seven. It really wasn't necessary to spend time trying to figure out how to insert them into every single storyline. No matter how ridiculous and far fetched the reasons had to be. Most of the time, Neelix's participation felt...forced upon us. "Look, we spent all this money on makeup and costuming. Find a way to use him. Now!"
Ethan was and remains a very fine actor who is quite capable of getting the job done with style and panache. But if you hand a cordon blue chef the makings for a baloney sandwich, all he can do is make a baloney sandwich.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Which roughly means that she being three is the equivalent of a thirty year old human. Kes was a fully matured member of her species and suggesting people that liked her (which in the end means they like the looks of th actress portraying her) are prone to pedophilia is just a bit too much, don't you think?
Anyway, Neelix shared all of Vaoyager's problems, like other people said already: Bad, inconsistent writing. The character itself had a lot of potential but in the end became really annoying because every episode of the show, aside from the two-parters, was explicitly written to reset everything. Braga stated that in an interview, he thought people were not to be overburdened with overlapping story archs, they should tune in a random episode and be on the same level as Star Trek experts. Which is why in every single episode all the characters we have have to establish their defining characteristics the first moment they are on-screen. Drinking game: Take one whenever you hear someone say "I am [species], I do [something in a specific way]." The Humans weren't better off, as basically nobody on the show was granted development of any kind except for the doctor. And Kate Mulgrew was handed a completely different character guide of Janeway in every single episode. The character was never consistent.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Which roughly means that she being three is the equivalent of a thirty year old human. Kes was a fully matured member of her species and suggesting people that liked her (which in the end means they like the looks of th actress portraying her) are prone to pedophilia is just a bit too much, don't you think?
Anyway, Neelix shared all of Vaoyager's problems, like other people said already: Bad, inconsistent writing. The character itself had a lot of potential but in the end became really annoying because every episode of the show, aside from the two-parters, was explicitly written to reset everything. Braga stated that in an interview, he thought people were not to be overburdened with overlapping story archs, they should tune in a random episode and be on the same level as Star Trek experts. Which is why in every single episode all the characters we have have to establish their defining characteristics the first moment they are on-screen. Drinking game: Take one whenever you hear someone say "I am [species], I do [something in a specific way]." The Humans weren't better off, as basically nobody on the show was granted development of any kind except for the doctor. And Kate Mulgrew was handed a completely different character guide of Janeway in every single episode. The character was never consistent.
Bingo!
The Doctor had great character development. Paris and Belenna had a bit themselves, and Seven too (to a lesser degree which was pretty inconsistent). However the others? No character development really until the last season.
Comments
Wesley in season 1 was intolerable, but at least he was actually pretty good in "The First Duty" and "Journey's End" (although he was a jerk in the latter, he was SUPPOSED to be, which was what saved him from going out on a scrappy note).
Quark...honestly, he just was a well-written comedian, well-acted and actually pretty powerful in certain episodes ("The House of Quark" was VERY nice, and had me in stitches and in tears throughout). People don't like him because they want to hate DS9 and they need someone to pin it on.
Malcolm...he was just...he tended to grate on the nerves. Wasn't as bad as Archer, though...my god, "A Night In Sickbay"...
"The House of Quark" was indeed a very good episode! Quark really was one of my favorite characters. ("Yes, you can say it... like a Ferengi." Quark was really at his best, that way).
Wesley was just an annoying dweep.
Enh, it's not horrible. being funny makes it better than it would be otherwise.
My character Tsin'xing
Had they gone along the lines of BSG, in which the ship slowly took damage and the characters were developed over a long arc, like SGU as well... there would had been a lot more promise... instead there was always that... reset button
ugh
At least he's pretty jovial, there are some incredibly bad characters in other Trek series, Wes Crusher for one, half the cast of TNG and it's PC TRIBBLE. DS9 was disliked because it was on a station and not a starship, yet had the same storylines as if it were in space. In the end it had the best Captain who was a lot more like Kirk than Picard! Most of the characters were pretty well fleshed out, plus Dax 1 and 2, both of whom were great!
However the character tropes for Star Trek and the acting style used was always a bit hammy. If it had a bit more gravitas and more realistic personalities for the cast instead of overblown caricatures it would be a lot more palatable for far more people.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
-he's just plain annoying. His voice, his earnestness, everything about him.
-I actually cook and have worked at catering jobs and have cooked for large groups. It is impossible for 1 person to cook 3 meals/day for 140 people (there were 4 of us on the smallest team I was ever on, and we cooked for 100. It was a full shift to do 1 meal). It is even less possible for that person to have time to go on away missions and talk with the captain and do a silly morning show. So it is downright insulting when he talks about being a cook as if it's nothing, as if anyone could just put out dishes for over a hundred people in a couple of minutes so he should be ashamed that he doesn't pull his weight on the ship. The entire thing just showed that the writers always ate at restaurants or had wives/husbands/parents who cooked for them so they had no clue how much work food preparation is.
-He was surprisingly judgmental and intolerant.
-He as supposed to be Guinan II, the wise non-starfleet person on the ship, but his character was so immature that it was never believable.
-Make-up problems
-He was supposed to be an odd couple with Tuvok, but Tuvok was kind of annoying already so it's easy to dislike them as a pair (Tuvok wasn't as bad as Neelix, but he didn't have the subtlety or charm that Spock did and just came off as a bitter old vulcan)
-In 7 seasons we never learned anything about Talaxians. It was mostly just about him, ok there was a war at some point and, oh yeah, the forest for an afterlife, but, really, compare what was written about talaxians in Voyager to what we learned about Bajorans or Trill on DS9 or Betazoids and Klingons on TNG or Vulcans on TOS.
In his defense:
-He wasn't a terrible actor. The character was just poorly written
-He got fewer episodes as the show progressed
-He wasn't Harry Kim
I dont go for 6 year old girls thank you very much
On the matter of cooking. I was disappointed, in DR, that the first thing we do when we meet Neelix is food-related again. Yes, he allegedly grew as a person, now an Embassador of sorts, but cast in his cooking role again nonetheless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-me2inj1nNw
Like this one here?
Lol.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
My character Tsin'xing
Because SFDebris says so.
/thread
:P
Oh awesome. You like his opinionated guides as well?
Lolwut?! He said: "Y'all are just jelly cause he got to bang KES." (emphasis mine); not Naomi! There's quite a bit wrong with Jennifer Lien, though, I'll give ya that.
Simple answer is because he was a poorly written character. It doesn't matter how good the actor is if the writing is bad there is little he can do to make it look good. That is it no more or less.
It's the same reason the Kazon fell flat as the "Klingons of the Delta Quadrant", they were poorly written. That is why you couldn't take them seriously as the bad guys. Which is the same reason the Ferengi failed as the bad guys of TNG.
kes is under the age of 10
Simple fact is that, like absolutely every one and thing in Voyager, when it sucked it plumbed new depths of suck, as opposed to the other Star Trek shows which stuck with a regular degree of sucking when they sucked.
I have almost no problem with Neelix. I hate B'elanna. The episode where she goes nuts about her baby looking a bit Klingon? She basically has an utter mental breakdown and mindrapes the Doctor, which all turns out totally fine in the end because it's totally ok to reach into the Doctor's brain and alter it, and who wouldn't want a chief engineer who had a psychotic break? Paris got demoted for the crime of "not being an evil a-hole". Going mad and assaulting crewmen is apparently fine.
Not in Earth-years, is she?!
Ethan was and remains a very fine actor who is quite capable of getting the job done with style and panache. But if you hand a cordon blue chef the makings for a baloney sandwich, all he can do is make a baloney sandwich.
Her species only live about 9 earth years
Which roughly means that she being three is the equivalent of a thirty year old human. Kes was a fully matured member of her species and suggesting people that liked her (which in the end means they like the looks of th actress portraying her) are prone to pedophilia is just a bit too much, don't you think?
Anyway, Neelix shared all of Vaoyager's problems, like other people said already: Bad, inconsistent writing. The character itself had a lot of potential but in the end became really annoying because every episode of the show, aside from the two-parters, was explicitly written to reset everything. Braga stated that in an interview, he thought people were not to be overburdened with overlapping story archs, they should tune in a random episode and be on the same level as Star Trek experts. Which is why in every single episode all the characters we have have to establish their defining characteristics the first moment they are on-screen. Drinking game: Take one whenever you hear someone say "I am [species], I do [something in a specific way]." The Humans weren't better off, as basically nobody on the show was granted development of any kind except for the doctor. And Kate Mulgrew was handed a completely different character guide of Janeway in every single episode. The character was never consistent.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Bingo!
The Doctor had great character development. Paris and Belenna had a bit themselves, and Seven too (to a lesser degree which was pretty inconsistent). However the others? No character development really until the last season.