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Are Federation carriers competitive?
herrrmansen
Member Posts: 15 Arc User
Completely new to the game (About to hit lv20 on my first Fed character) but I've fallen in love with the concept of carriers and sending out pets.
But I've read a few old threads and articles that seem to indicate that the Federation carriers aren't really competitive compared to the KDF (Who have most of them by the looks of it?). The Caitian Carrier is ten levels "later" than the equivalent KDF carrier with almost the same stats - And there's no frigate.
So... What are my options if I want to stay Federation? And how competitive would I be compared to a KDF player once I hit the lategame? (I don't really plan on doing any kind of "raiding", just casual daily missions and such)
But I've read a few old threads and articles that seem to indicate that the Federation carriers aren't really competitive compared to the KDF (Who have most of them by the looks of it?). The Caitian Carrier is ten levels "later" than the equivalent KDF carrier with almost the same stats - And there's no frigate.
So... What are my options if I want to stay Federation? And how competitive would I be compared to a KDF player once I hit the lategame? (I don't really plan on doing any kind of "raiding", just casual daily missions and such)
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http://sto.gamepedia.com/Jem%27Hadar_Dreadnought_Carrier
I have not played a true federation carrier in a long time, but at one point I was using the Heavy Escort Carrier and I don't remember having any real complaints about it.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Heavy_Escort_Carrier
Edit: I don't think you can even get a carrier till you reach Rear Admiral (level 40) and that is the Obelisk Carrier. I don't know what your situation is as far as spending zen, lobi, or any other currency. But I would recommend grinding to Vice Admiral (level 50), saving your currency resources such as energy credits, dilithium, and zen as much as you can and then pick out a good ship. Don't waste too much on the ships below level 50 because you won't use them in the end game.
I've been here since beta
Other than that, there's Lockbox and Lobi carriers, most of which fit their niches quite well. I'm a fan of the Narcine Dreadnought Carrier personally, and is technically a Federation ship according to canon (Xindi joined the Federation some time after Enterprise), though you can't buy it in the C-Store.
Fed Carriers.
Catian is a sci ship.. its not meant to be a dps ship. If you run heavy sci it works but its slow, very slow.
Heavy Escort Carrier, its only a 1 hanger carrier, but its got a load of dps, its a escort first and for most.
Galaxy dred. Not really a carrier but it does have a single hanger. Its a ok ship, can get good fire power and tanks pretty well. best when you have saucer separation console that requires another ship to get.
Non-Fed carrier that feds can use. Most of them get a free upgraded to Fleet T-5u for free.
Advanced Obelisk Carrier. This is a eng/sci themed carrier, 3/3 with only 2 tac consoles. Not the greatest dps machine out there, comes with swarmer's there ok dps but not great scorpions stil out perform them. The ship is support ship then a dps ship, very close to a recluse in stats but its fighters are not as effective as the recluse. This ship also doesn't get a free upgrade to fleet T-5u as far as I know.
jem'Dread.
With a 4/3 lay out and tac slanted it can put out the dps, lots of hull make it a great beam boat you can fly in the middle of a battle being able to push out dps and live through a large amount of damage. It can get frigate pets but unless you have a JHAS you can use them. That a 500 mil ec+ invest ment just for frigate pets.
Recluse. Sci carrier, its pets though have APB making them one of the best support carriers in the game for uping a groups dps. Has no frigates.
Narcine. Agile, 4/3 lay out and very good frigates. This ship is one of the if not the best dps oriented carriers in the game. If you want dps I feel its the best carrier a fed player could get. Can be expensive on the exchange.
Remember though its not just about the carrier it self but the fighters and frigates you use.
the romulan rep. Scorpions are the highest dps fighters that you can get as a fed. They get killed fast but if you looking for offense of fire power the ultra rare scorpions are very powerful. Nothing else like having 12 scorpions firing heavy plasma torps at a target in there opening attack.
The federation yellow stones are one of there best shuttles, not as tanky as a frigate but not as fragile as a fighter. They are not dps machines but there gas and tractor beams are great for locking other ships down.
If you get a Recluse or a Narcine you will want to use there fighters. Recluse's fighters for the debuff on the target. The Narcine frigates just are very power full with beam arry, DBB, mines, torps and a special aoe pulse that does damage and they are pretty tanky to be able to use all that weaponry.
Then there is the new one that comes out for the winter event. Not sure what its stats are yet but its should be good as all winter event ships have been pretty good ships. So I would wait till we see the stats on that ship. If you have to have one today I would say the Narcine would be the best bet if you can afford one.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9008423-q%27s-winter-wonderland-carrier
Solid science capability, and large base hull and lower-sci-ship shield mod as pros. Limited Engineering BOff slots (one fixed hybrid Intel/Engineering Lt., one Universal Lt.) and only 3/3 weapons being the negatives. It'll outshoot a Vo'Quv, but probably not outtank the freebie or Mirror one, and definately can't out-tank a well built Fleet Vo'Quv T5-U. It'll out tank a Fleet Kar'fi, but the Fleet Kar'fi has one more fore weapon hardpoint fore will out shoot it if you're not using Override Subsystem Safeties (not sure which comes out ahead with OSS, might depend on weapon loadout). The Sarr Theln has the same console layout as the Fleet Kar'fi T5-U.
The Reactive Repair Nanites trait, which heals any pet within 5km of whoever you're healing with a hull heal, sounds like a great trait for any carrier, so it'd be good to grab that even you don't think you'll use it beyond unlocking that.
This is the only reason I'll be getting this ship. Just so I can get this trait for my Ar'Kif Tactical Carrier Warbird.
its only a 5km range.. that pretty lame though.
Would be better if it has a 10km range.
The breen carrier is a odd set up a 3/3 with a lt commander tac and 4 tac consoles.. just seems so odd to have 4 tac consoles on a 3/3 ship.
You can cast heals on your own pets, and since most will be within 5km of that one, you'll heal all of them. I'm thinking about using it more when pets are in recall but yet docked, by casting a heal on myself, though that's more for the frigates that I normally field.
4 Tac on 3/3 is a bit odd, but you can still field a decent amount of firepower with 3/3 backed by 4 Tac (like on a Vesta or DSD in sci mode), and keep in mind that the crit boost Spire consoles affect your captain and should be buffing the crits of any Sci abilities you're using.
Ya but like you even stated.. most are going to be using the direct heals on thems selfs or team mates... I mean I can hear it now..
eng crusier tanking "umm why didn't anyone heal me"
Carrier pilot "oh I used it on my pets"
I think 10k range would be better over all. just on a quality of life stand point.
Going on the tangent that we're sticking to factions ships only, KDF is the superior choice. But it's not like it's swimming in tons of Carrier choices since it only has the Vo'Quv and Kar'Fi, though the Feds have 1 (Atrox) and the Roms none.
Again, Atrox is the only Fed Carrier in the game. It has a terrible reputation by players in the game. Most of that is undeserved, IMHO. The reason its reputation has suffered is because of idiots going into an obviously Science heavy ship then complaining it can't do DHC builds or do several copies of BFAW with an Attack Pattern Beta or 2, maybe APO instead. They're complaining that they can't fight and fly a Science Vessel like they would an Escort or Excelsior. That's not what the Atrox is, it's a Science heavy ship. It is a Science Vessel that happens to have 2 full hangars on it. Treat it as such and you'll do fine. I would outfit the Atrox as a Particle Generator-based Science Build. It has tons of Science BOFF seating, the Science Console Slots to support such a build capably. Running High Aux Power on it is a necessity anyways to keep hangar recharge rates low. Besides, running a Science heavy build like a PGen based one negates the lack of Tactical BOFF seating as well as low TAC Console count. In a PGen based build, you don't need those fancy Crit Consoles, those fancy Spire Consoles. Most of them do nothing for PGen based attacks.
Grav Wells to bunch up enemies.
You still have space to throw on a Torp Sprd 2 for the Dyson Grav Torp and profit from Grav Well (which would be amazing on a high PGen build).
DOFF'ed TBR to bring the targets to you and keep slamming them with shield bypassing attacks.
Space for Photonic Shockwave as a "finisher" once Grav Well and TBR are done.
These could take up the high ranking LtCdr and Cmdr Science slots.
And you still have tons of space at Ens and Lt (four total) for things like Polarize Hull, Hazard Emitters, Transfer Shield Strength, etc. And with you running High Aux, their performance would be amazing.
You have enough ENG space to make the Atrox resilient, because if you do CC and several area attacks on those bunched up NPCs, you're practically guaranteed to draw the aggro. That could be a good way to sneak in Feedback Pulse once you have all that aggro.
On a Scryer, I used to do this tactic:
- Grav Well 1 NPCs
- Torp Sprd 2 with Dyson Grav Torp: Profit from the rifts
- Ensure defense like EPTS and PH are running. Fly into the middle of all that mess and use DOFF'ed TBR3
- By now I should have all the NPC aggro on me. Pop FBP1
- Pop heals as necessary.
I was safely able to do this with the Scyer, which only has base 29.7k hull. I felt safe. With High Aux and abilities that run off that performing at peak capability, it was no problem to have everything shoot at me, explode in close proximity around me. With a the Fleet Atrox and base 44k hull, it should be easier.
One of the last thing to consider though is due to the handling of the Atrox, you have to be forward thinking of the flow of battle and moving your ship into position in anticipation of it. You're not an Escort zooming about freely and quickly. You have to be efficient with your movements.
Last thing... Hangar Units. Feds by default have no faction Frigates. They have access to Faction Fighters or Shuttles. The Shuttles are an in-between quality between easily destroyed fighters but larger in numbers, quick to replace fighters. Frigates in the KDF are tough, few in numbers, long to replace. Shuttles are in the middle of that. There are some Non-Fed special hangar units you can get without buying a fancy ship:
- Swarmers from the Fleet Spire
- Elite Scorpions from Rom Rep
- Elite Tholian Fighters (can't remember name) from Nukara Rep
The Hangar Units you slot for your Carrier should supplement the build and playstyle. In the Particle Generator style I mentioned earlier, with Grav Well and all that going, I would get either Yellowstone Shuttles and launch them in the middle of that hoping they do Eject Warp Plasma. Or I would get Elite Scorpion Fighters and hope the HYT1 Plasma Torps they fire get into the Grav Well mess.
Anyways, you fit the playstyle to what the ship can do. You can be very creative with it, but it all depends on you.
Between the turnrate and that it's a minimally modified Vo'Quv which KDF can get free with a new skin, it had a very deserved reputation when released which just continued on even when things were made less of an issue. I've seen 10K+ DPS builds with it recently, not bad for a 3/3. Though, now it has to compete with pocket-carriers like the Vesta line which can bring quite a bit of hurt a lot faster and still have the flexibility of a single hangar.
Carriers are not part of the original IP, and CBS will not allow them as a Federation plot device. There are other sci-fi franchises too closely associated with them. To pacify our requests, there can be KDF and other races with them, just not the Federation.
Which is why they keeping releasing with --or modifying existing ships to have-- one hangar, then?
Also, I don't recall the question you seem to be answering in this post...
This is not true at all.. fighters were referred to in DS9. So fighter wings are referred to and used by the federations. Also almost all Federation starships act as carriers for shuttle craft. All a fighter really is a combat dedicated shuttle for one.
CBS stand point is all speculation and guessing. There is no official press report from them on it.
I can't point to it, but theres a stickied post somewhere touching base on this and many other 'why can't we have____' posts. Especially for things like the T5 constitution.
If you don't believe me - ok.
As for fighter wings = carriers. That's wishful thinking. If that were true - Whidbey island naval base outside of Seattle is a carrier, not an ISLAND. Please provide one reference on-screen to a federation carrier. Just one. Until then you're just another fanboy, wishing he can play BSG.
Good luck!
With it's universal Commander slot the Recluse can fit any role. As far as frigates go I think the advanced and elite Weavers qualify as frigates.
Dude that has to be the most stupid argument... carriers are mobile.. a island is a fixed locations. A federation starship already acts as a carriers for shuttles.. and we know that federation use fighters.
Guess what. This is 30+ years on from the last on-screen appearance of anybody (JJtrek excepted). Tech and tactical doctrines can change and advance a lot in that amount of time. But by all means, keep using the "FED CARRIERS AREN'T CANON WAAAAHH!" argument. It's hilarious.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The Feds don't have, and will never have a full true carrier. It's an IP issue - CBS doesn't want brand confusion. To get around this in game, partner races lend their design to be used by the federation. The Atrox is the first such ship for federation-aligned players. Lockbox ships are the other alternative, with even more restrictions when it came to frigate pets.
So with the exception of 2 'full' but alien carriers available to the Fed players, the federation itself doesn't have anything more than a single-hanger designs. We can argue again whether or not that's a carrier. We don't call frigates or destroyers that launch helicopters or drones 'carriers'. I think that distinction applies here.
The Heavy Escort Carrier is the grey area - and it's my favourite ship design from T5. The carrier designation seems to be an aberration.
The release of the breen T6 has offered a new full carrier that can have frigate pets. And it's awesome, bordering on OP for the frigate pets.
It's a true carrier.
Citation needed.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Wish I could. It's been mentioned in podcasts for which there are no transcripts. Lets assume it's an assumption on my part, and the interview with stahl was a complete fabrication.
So I throw it back to you.
Why are there no full federation carriers in ANY licensed Star Trek IP's; and why hasn't Cryptic jumped all over this sweet morsel of ZEN goodness when there is so clearly ?
Or better yet. Memory Alpha - the grand empress of all things canon has only one reference to a screen seen federation carrier - that of a dorsal hanger from the future.
It's not like them to pass up easy money.
I'll need a citation as well.
Enough of the Bull....
the Feds "DO" have a full carriers. It's the Catian carrier in the Zen Store.
Only a true fed player can buy it, not a Fed aligned Rom. It carrier TWO hanger bays.
So enough. At least with the Breen carrier the Roms can finally have one without having to pay through the nose at the exchange.
I'm going to assume you meant to say "...clearly demand for it." You could pose the same question about any number of fan requests. Maybe they just want stylistically factional* two-hangar carriers to stay a Klingon exclusive.
* No, the Atrox does not count. Fed ships are light gray flying spoons, not giant blue TRIBBLE.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Okay, fine. Starfleet ships are gray flying spoons. Quit splitting hairs. The Caitian, Andorian, and Vulcan ships belong to the planetary equivalent of US states' National Guard, not the national military.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Get a Xindi carrier
Once you go Xindi you never go back
Feds dont have a real carrier.......just wannabe carriers
Caitian is a alien ship not a Fed ship
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Not to pick on you in particular, but I have never understood why the Atrox doesn't count as a Fed ship, yet the Kar'fi counts as a KDF ship? At least the cat people are federation members, the Kar'fi are more like the Lockbox ships, a prizes of war.
EHOUGH (and YES that was a Shout!)
The "Federation of Planets", aka "Starfleet", is composed of all those races INCLUDING Andorian, Catian, etc. Look at your race selection when you make a Federation toon. Therefore all these ships ,INCLUING THE CARRIER, are Federation. The Catian carrier IS a true carrier.
The ONLY "National Military" Ship, per Starwords nomenclature, is the NX starter ship with the grapling hook console.
Stop playing semantics.
The Federation doesn't work like the United Nations where each member state contributes troops from its native military service to an jointly operated force. Starfleet is the military of the entire Federation, wholly controlled by the central government. Individual member states may or may not maintain local military forces (the Vulcans, Andorians, and Caitians have a small star navy, while the Bajorans just have a surface army), but they are separate services from Starfleet. What the "I want a Fed carrier crowd" is asking for is a carrier that looks like an actual Starfleet ship instead of a flying TRIBBLE.
ETA: For clarity's sake, I'm personally not in favor of Fed carriers, but that's just 'cause I don't like carrier gameplay in this game in general so I wouldn't use one even if they added it.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/