Of course, Eve is a game with no grind at all... The big ships are all cheap and easy to earn for an individual, fleets have it easy to achieve everything, maxing out skills is done after a few weeks of play, and there are no time gates anywhere. It's all much better than STO, of course.
Yes in fact it is. lol
Flying fun ships in Eve is pretty cheap honestly. When people seem to talk about grind time in Eve they like to throw out the big massive crazy capital ships. To be hoenst there not fun to play and are more for show. (half kidding) they have a very specific use that isn't how 99% of the people play the game.
Eves larger ships fight eves other larger ships. For most people its the mid range destroyers cruisers and battle ships that are where the fun is. You are in a destroyer with in a couple days a cruiser a few more and battleships with in a week if thats what you want. There also cheap... you can run PvE missions for an evening and buy 3 or 4 destroyer/cruiser class ships. If you loose one cause you risked it having some fun... its not a major loss to be honest.
No game has zero grind... the fact that I am finding the grind in Eve to be LESS then the grind in STO should be pretty telling I would think.
I've about 15 toons all of em were level 50, all of em were maxed in all reputations, all of em were made for pvp. 15 seems excessively many but isn't really, started off with an alien of each class (on each side) added some caitian of each a bit later (for the dodge and jumping), initially made aliens of each for space pvp, added romulans of each (for the crit) later.
Before delta rising the game was kinda alt friendly, never had an issue to maintain my huge roster since i did spend enough time in the game. With DR i was looking at upgrading gear on all of em, doing 10 levels on each, leveling another reputation up on each.. all of that woulda been manageable but specialization. with the 150 levels to grind i could have maybe lived (withouth the xp speed nerfs) but not with 15x45=645 additional levels for specialization.. even if i woulda do 2 levels a day that would take a year of boring mindless grind. Now if specialization would add really minor and unimportant bonuses it would have been no problem, could just have ignored em, but that is not the case here.
Honestly this game changed from casual/alt friendly to completely casual/alt hostile, the amount of grind coupled with the nerfs to grinding speed is just insane now. And at the end of the day the question remains.. whats the grind for? The only really challenging endgame this game used to have was pvp but its dead now, killed by the absurd grind together with the devs not giving enough attention to it for years.
Now that part i agree with. Just logging in to sto those days to socialize a bit, playing more minecraft then sto now. The grind kills this game. I still hope that if the game loses enough people the developers see how much the games going down the wrong path. XP should be boosted by a factor of 3 at least and they should make specialization points account-bound. Grinding 60 spec levels *once* is enough work, shouldn't punish people for having alts. Theres still enough other things to do in the game theres no need to have it *that* grindy.
Are you planning to level up ALL 15 with specializations and ship mastery as well? Just curious since it seems an incredible amount of grind to do.
those builds are spamming int abilities, not sci.";)"
All the dmg comes from TBR and GW... and a smattering of EWP. With sci boosted torps accounting for another third of the dmg.
The only intel getting spammed really is Ionic... and really even if you drop that its not really don't much less. Really you can do the exact same thing in a Wells. Time ship DPS isn't really that much less then the Scryer. Really its about the same.
Flying fun ships in Eve is pretty cheap honestly. When people seem to talk about grind time in Eve they like to throw out the big massive crazy capital ships. To be hoenst there not fun to play and are more for show. (half kidding) they have a very specific use that isn't how 99% of the people play the game.
Eves larger ships fight eves other larger ships. For most people its the mid range destroyers cruisers and battle ships that are where the fun is. You are in a destroyer with in a couple days a cruiser a few more and battleships with in a week if thats what you want. There also cheap... you can run PvE missions for an evening and buy 3 or 4 destroyer/cruiser class ships. If you loose one cause you risked it having some fun... its not a major loss to be honest.
No game has zero grind... the fact that I am finding the grind in Eve to be LESS then the grind in STO should be pretty telling I would think.
It's all subjective, but people are talking about how much it takes to get all the specialization points - at what point does a EVE player can expect to have maxed out all his skills?
EVE players seem to accept they will likely never have everything. Why is that? Maybe EVE sells the idea better than STO.
I am certainly more in the camp of "I like to have everything at some point".
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It's all subjective, but people are talking about how much it takes to get all the specialization points - at what point does a EVE player can expect to have maxed out all his skills?
I have no idea what EVE's skill system is like, but I know what "Planar Attunement" in Rift looks like (this is Trion's version of a post-level cap experience gain). I never felt the pressure to rush my planar attunement development (granted, I'm only a very casual Rift player) and I think it is mainly due to the fact that PA gives minor advantages. +1 here, +1 there. Nothing like STO's game changing specialisations.
Are you planning to level up ALL 15 with specializations and ship mastery as well? Just curious since it seems an incredible amount of grind to do.
No no, I've leveled 3 toons up to 60 and a couple somewhere in the middle, did some specialization points on those 3 too but unless this game heavily reduces the grind (especially the specialization part) im pretty much done here. Took most of the active people of my fleet with me to another game for now.. one were we actually get pvp with zero grind and low waiting times between pvp'ing
It's all subjective, but people are talking about how much it takes to get all the specialization points - at what point does a EVE player can expect to have maxed out all his skills?
EVE players seem to accept they will likely never have everything. Why is that? Maybe EVE sells the idea better than STO.
I am certainly more in the camp of "I like to have everything at some point".
Never that's when.
What Cryptic tried to add with spec wasn't a bad idea it was just a terrible implementation.
Other developers like for example Trion Worlds did something like it in Rift.
The difference is in Rift getting a bonus point when you level past the cap... gives you a very minor reward. (as in +1 to a stat... stats that have 100s of points in them).
So in Rift what happens is the difference between a player that just hit cap and one that has 60 levels past cap ends up not being that major. After spreading around the +1s even a ton of points into the system its not a major advantage.
In STO Cryptic has failed hard by making the Spec points almost required. For PVP no doubt there required. A toon with full spec is going to slaughter a fresh 60. They will have massive more Defense Acc and a ton of Actual active skills and even extra trait options.
In EVE the way things work is you train skills sure... the first few levels train very fast. The stuff that takes forever to train is the level 5s which add a small bonus. Point is you can speed train everything required to pilot the mid range ships to leve 4 in a week or two. This will unlock the advanced training stuffs that add 2-5% per level and you can speed train all of those in another week. At that point with less then a month in (they train while your offline as well not like you have to grind 1000 NPCS) you will be 95% as effective in combat as someone who has played eve for 10 years. People with 10 years of skill training in general have them spread out over things like Market skills / Mining / Cargo running ect.
The way eve works if you pick what you want to do and dedicate training to it for a few weeks you will be mostly on par with anyone else doing that activity.
Don't get me wrong I don't see anything terribly wrong with the idea of the STO spec system. Its the implementation. If your going to have a system impart that much power it needs to be something you can earn quickly. If a developer wants to add a long grind then to be honest it has to be less powerful or the gap between new and old players just becomes way to great to sustain the game long term. Cryptic seriously needs to learn that, cause they make the exact same mistake almost every time they add a new system. IMO there beyond hope. As much as people like to complain about a game like EVE and as unfriendly as it can be to new players (mainly cause it is just unlike anything else they have played) it is in fact pretty new player friendly.
No no, I've leveled 3 toons up to 60 and a couple somewhere in the middle, did some specialization points on those 3 too but unless this game heavily reduces the grind (especially the specialization part) im pretty much done here. Took most of the active people of my fleet with me to another game for now.. one were we actually get pvp with zero grind and low waiting times between pvp'ing
Yeah..I tried the same with my ALTs but gave up on number 2 :P. This grinding takes a toll on people. I think I've seen you on PvPs many times pre-DR. Post DR the queues are ridiculous. Good luck to you and also hoping Cryptic will STOP messing with the extreme grinding of XP for the benefit of ALL playerbase.
If you're going to have a system impart that much power it needs to be something you can earn quickly. If a developer wants to add a long grind then to be honest it has to be less powerful or the gap between new and old players just becomes way too great to sustain the game long term. Cryptic seriously needs to learn that, because they make the exact same mistake almost every time they add a new system.
This may be the most on-point diagnosis of what's wrong with the game today.
Original Join Date: January 2010. Ragequit Date: January 7th 2012. Return Date: October 23rd 2014.
Comments
Yes in fact it is. lol
Flying fun ships in Eve is pretty cheap honestly. When people seem to talk about grind time in Eve they like to throw out the big massive crazy capital ships. To be hoenst there not fun to play and are more for show. (half kidding) they have a very specific use that isn't how 99% of the people play the game.
Eves larger ships fight eves other larger ships. For most people its the mid range destroyers cruisers and battle ships that are where the fun is. You are in a destroyer with in a couple days a cruiser a few more and battleships with in a week if thats what you want. There also cheap... you can run PvE missions for an evening and buy 3 or 4 destroyer/cruiser class ships. If you loose one cause you risked it having some fun... its not a major loss to be honest.
No game has zero grind... the fact that I am finding the grind in Eve to be LESS then the grind in STO should be pretty telling I would think.
Are you planning to level up ALL 15 with specializations and ship mastery as well? Just curious since it seems an incredible amount of grind to do.
All the dmg comes from TBR and GW... and a smattering of EWP. With sci boosted torps accounting for another third of the dmg.
The only intel getting spammed really is Ionic... and really even if you drop that its not really don't much less. Really you can do the exact same thing in a Wells. Time ship DPS isn't really that much less then the Scryer. Really its about the same.
It's all subjective, but people are talking about how much it takes to get all the specialization points - at what point does a EVE player can expect to have maxed out all his skills?
EVE players seem to accept they will likely never have everything. Why is that? Maybe EVE sells the idea better than STO.
I am certainly more in the camp of "I like to have everything at some point".
No no, I've leveled 3 toons up to 60 and a couple somewhere in the middle, did some specialization points on those 3 too but unless this game heavily reduces the grind (especially the specialization part) im pretty much done here. Took most of the active people of my fleet with me to another game for now.. one were we actually get pvp with zero grind and low waiting times between pvp'ing
Never that's when.
What Cryptic tried to add with spec wasn't a bad idea it was just a terrible implementation.
Other developers like for example Trion Worlds did something like it in Rift.
The difference is in Rift getting a bonus point when you level past the cap... gives you a very minor reward. (as in +1 to a stat... stats that have 100s of points in them).
So in Rift what happens is the difference between a player that just hit cap and one that has 60 levels past cap ends up not being that major. After spreading around the +1s even a ton of points into the system its not a major advantage.
In STO Cryptic has failed hard by making the Spec points almost required. For PVP no doubt there required. A toon with full spec is going to slaughter a fresh 60. They will have massive more Defense Acc and a ton of Actual active skills and even extra trait options.
In EVE the way things work is you train skills sure... the first few levels train very fast. The stuff that takes forever to train is the level 5s which add a small bonus. Point is you can speed train everything required to pilot the mid range ships to leve 4 in a week or two. This will unlock the advanced training stuffs that add 2-5% per level and you can speed train all of those in another week. At that point with less then a month in (they train while your offline as well not like you have to grind 1000 NPCS) you will be 95% as effective in combat as someone who has played eve for 10 years. People with 10 years of skill training in general have them spread out over things like Market skills / Mining / Cargo running ect.
The way eve works if you pick what you want to do and dedicate training to it for a few weeks you will be mostly on par with anyone else doing that activity.
Don't get me wrong I don't see anything terribly wrong with the idea of the STO spec system. Its the implementation. If your going to have a system impart that much power it needs to be something you can earn quickly. If a developer wants to add a long grind then to be honest it has to be less powerful or the gap between new and old players just becomes way to great to sustain the game long term. Cryptic seriously needs to learn that, cause they make the exact same mistake almost every time they add a new system. IMO there beyond hope. As much as people like to complain about a game like EVE and as unfriendly as it can be to new players (mainly cause it is just unlike anything else they have played) it is in fact pretty new player friendly.
EDIT great minds Mancom
Yeah..I tried the same with my ALTs but gave up on number 2 :P. This grinding takes a toll on people. I think I've seen you on PvPs many times pre-DR. Post DR the queues are ridiculous. Good luck to you and also hoping Cryptic will STOP messing with the extreme grinding of XP for the benefit of ALL playerbase.
This may be the most on-point diagnosis of what's wrong with the game today.
Almost called it.