another entitlement claim, if i had a penny jar on these forums for each time someone makes an entitlement claim i would be a millionaire by now. :P
Probably more like $10. If they bother you so much, why are you reading them or responding? So you can troll people with legitimate concerns like the OP & those who agree with their opinion. Give it a rest. We get your position already, mainly because it's in every single similar post.
From my point of view, DR missions and overall content was satisfactory, problem is any mission in the game gives way too little rewards.
Grind ec isn't a problem with new RnD, dil is also easy now that queues award some good dil plus a few marks, but look at the xp gain cryptic. 1200 xp for completing a pve queve mission means you'll have to beat it more than 100 times to fill the xp bar, just for a single level. Doffing also takes long but it has been ok for me, they aren't the "core" way to develop in the game.
Every resource must have a fun way to be aquired and in large amounts. not saying it must not require grinding, just that 100+ missions for a level is way past the line. Consider giving xp rewards based on the difficulty level for the PvEs, just like dil and mark rewards, or perhaps on the average time needed for that mission, so that longer missions ("The Breach" mission, for example) become once again attractive.
Same could go for the kills xp, if you had the xp reward from a kill being proportional to the time it would take to kill that specific enemy (shield hp, hull hp and damage resists), it would feel more natural levelling via random slaughter.
Having an efficient and fun way to farm xp would help, so i don't feel stuck on levels progression while playing anymore whenever I try to quickly grind a level nor bored after the 7th run on same map. Right now, found argala patrol to be the best xp/time grind, managed to pull out arround 750 xp per minute there but it needs to be repeated 23 times for a single level. after a few runs get tired of it and run 1 viscous cycle in elite (2x, as it has a 50% chance to auto fail due to bugs) to find out it gives a tiny bit of xp points compared to the 160k bar.
I understand you want levelling to take some time and effort to be achieved, but do it via repeating the same map over and over is not the way to do so. People can give up on some fun to get xp faster but if even the fastest by far is too slow, its not worth.
I have ten characters of which I consider three to be 'mains.'
I used to log through them all every day... spend an hour or two clickfesting DOFF assignments and craft progression... maintaining the reputation climb where relevant and trying to do at least one 'daily bonus' mark mission on each character and perhaps even some episodic content, if I felt like it and had the time. Fairy-steps, right?
Then I'd turn to my mains - one Fed and two KDF - and run STFs either with PUGs or fleetmates... you know... actually do something that wasn't a grind or adminny clickathon... have fun and put my feet up... which is what I tend to use entertainment products for.
Every game aspect was progressing... though some agonisingly slowly (crafting... this is simply insane). I admit that my tolerance levels were dropping pre-DR as it was becoming work/task led rather than fun but hey... most of my characters are being polished for 'end-game' and I know the MMO drill, so. I still had fun.
Then... out came Delta Rising. I dil'd the pack and started my three mains on the episodes and Delta rep climb. I found myself having less and less time to spread around, so concentrated on my oldest Fed character to get her through mastery on four ships to fill out the trait slots. Since DR release, I have had to concentrate almost exclusively on this character. Despite this, specialisation is incomplete.
I ran all capable characters through the Mirror event each day but apart from the brief spurt this provided, progression slowed and slowed. I was putting in the same amount of time per day (which is more than average) but getting almost nowhere and since the event ended, I've not had the time to do the enjoyable, fun things as my in-game time is spent mindlessly clickfesting.
I upgraded gear on my three mains at great dil/EC expense... then had to concentrate on one as the contents of my wallet shrivelled... making the acquisition of more dil/EC marked and constant.
The game was clearly descending into 'not-fun.'
And then came the 'redistribution nerf.' Progression bars now moved pixel by pixel, even on the one character I had the time, energy and will to keep ploughing forward. I click 'complete' on a DOFF assignment and even with screen magnification, can hardly perceive any progression bars moving at all.
By the time the club gear was gifted... quite frankly, I couldn't give a single cahone, let alone two. Yet another Intrepid? That too.
I found myself salivating over vids for Black Desert... even contemplating a free couple of weeks on Final Fantasy XIV... logging back into The Secret World and funking on down with Ricky Pagan (best MMO NPC ever)... and then booting up Tera to bounce around on the new Reaper class (which felt energetic and engaging as my new Elin cartwheeled about).
I really do feel as though I am being pushed away from STO. I don't want to go... as I've said before, I have fleetmates here and where else are you congratulated by Leonard... but there's only so much pip-squeezing I can take before I relent and go elsewhere.
Somewhere along the line, STO developers have lost their link to their baby... which has become a pure time sink focused upon an incentivised points-distribution system and no longer a game played for fun. Frankly... it's insulting to call DR an expansion and the repeat patrol stuff 'content.'
It is THE most repetitive MMO I have ever played and Delta Rising the thinnest 'expansion' I have ever experienced.
My Fed main finished Delta rep today. Damp squib. I am really struggling to muster the will to complete specialisation on this character, let alone any of the others.
Sure, I can ignore all of this and just log to play STF's over and over... but that would ruin what little fun the game offers to me.
This isn't a problem with me... or with 'burnout.'
Turn the game around, please. Stop concentrating on and tweaking ever-downwards the time-sink, puny-point-by-point progression to nowhere.
Reward your players for the time and money they spend on the game and give them more fun in the Star Trek universe. You don't have to look too far for inspiration... some of the episodes and storylines already in the game are popular for a reason... just don't make us repeat it ad nauseum until it becomes stale and cobwebby.
Entertain us... and we'll stay. Surely not too much to ask for from a game.
Very well put. It sums up my attitude.
I finally subscribed in September after playing for over a year. I was in the habit of playing way too much and buying a new ship every few months. I'd also amassed many Alts and enjoyed leveling an new guy every so often.
The recent changes to the game (particularly the PVE queues and augmented bad guys) have been way to drastic, and really squeezed most of the fun out of the game.
I canceled my subscription today, and as with many others, I'll just dabble with the game in the hopes that the dead queues will be adjusted to something worthwhile, and the grinding will be scaled back to something a bit less demoralizing.
I've only glanced at this thread so I won't say I fully agree 100% with every word but the general premise of the death of alt characters is something I definitely agree with and am affected by.
8 active characters (fed tac/eng/sci, kdf tac/eng/sci, fedrom tac and kdfrom tac).
My 2 eng and sci's have already fallen by the wayside with accolades etc and even optimal setups etc; they could do nws preDR and competent at everything preDR as a whole but I use them when I specifically need eng/sci or my tacs are all on cd. Typically now all I do is reputation, doffing and events but that's about it.
My 4 tacs are my big players. They have all accolades attainable so far except 5 lv20 schools and, everything maxed out or fully done and yet still play the game.
With DR I'm increasingly wondering if this is feasible now. The pathfinder pack is a sci package and yes the trait is transferable and the bridges are lovely but after a few trips to see it and admire it's not something I use to play. A fed sci ship isn't much use to me who has only 1 primary fed character that's a tac. Yes nothing is stopping me doing it but I tend to go tac>escort/destroyer typically.
Being pushed more towards 1 character of 1 faction means less reason to buy anything for the kdf or romulans and even fed eng/sci ish stuff is a struggle to justify. In fact you could take it further and say why buy anything period when account based multiple alts made the purchase worthwhile? I might as well grind out for free in game for 1 character and use what stuff I've got already.
The R&D system I'm pushing different schools on different toons but this is the only perk as far as I can tell. The story missions are so patrol based and what story there is, is good but it's lost in the grind which we need to perform. Specialisation is laborious and I can accept Cryptic doesn't want us to burn this out in weeks but set something too long term and players will look and think "every day for 1 year? TRIBBLE that I need something that gives me an incentive/reward in the short term".
With regards to pvp that's dead and gave up on that long before DR so end of point.
PVE is going the same way for different reasons now. Most queues are dead only some are good for playing now. This drive to craft epic mk14 stuff in some cases isn't need and for missions that do are dead so why grind out for stuff that I need for queues that are dead?
You hit the nail on the button op. I feel the same way. I had 3 "mains" before dilithium rising that I kept very well geared. Best traits, gear, etc... but now they have been reduced to farmer status. I don't have the will or desire to grind all three through the lack luster content that is dr. Nor do I have the will to go through the upgrade system with them. It's really sad because I used to love this game, but it's turned into a grindfest and the fun isn't there anymore. I'm still here playing a bit hoping things will get better, but I dunno how long that will last.
We've been around the block and we all know that STO isn't alone in the MMO market... though sometimes it seems as though Cryptic apply patches/content/upgrades as if it WERE the only MMO around and seem to believe that players have no alternative but to swig whatever swill they're peddling.
We also know, I'm sure, that there are commonalities across the genre... no MMO lasts forever and no MMO has an endless parade of wowsome content. Some repetition and grind is to be expected.
Im afraid the OP is correct, the mass exodus of players has begun. Even Cryptic at this point has to be aware that the number of players playing the game has declined. In fact the number of players that find it enjoyable to have multiple characters are not playing some of them. Which makes a lot of the game's luster fade. In perspective, asside from patrols to grind on, there is no useful things in the Delta Quadrant.
I would just like to say that I disagree 150,000 percent with the OP. I also have 10 characters, am a monthly subscriber rather than a lifer, and have been playing for years now. Through all of the changes that have happened since I started playing there has been nothing that has made even the slightest change in how I play the game or my enjoyment of it. In fact the only thing that has affected my enjoyment is the endless complaining by a very small minority of players, and once I add them to my ignore list they can no longer affect my enjoyment.
Great stuff. Pleased as punch on your behalf.
And I'd be proud to be on your ignore list.
At the moment, because I can, I play @6 hours per day... and there's no way progression-aspects of the game haven't slowed since DR... and repetitive-aspects of the game haven't increased... so whatever it is that you're doing, you must have it all nailed solid. Super. Aces, you.
I do not believe I mentioned anything about progression anywhere in my post, I said the way I play has not changed, which it has not. I pretty much ignore progression, it'll happen when it happens, and otherwise I don't much care about it. I do gain a level pretty much every day on any characters I play for the day, just doing my normal round of rep stuff, various missions I feel like playing again and my Doff assignments. I max my daily dilithium with almost no effort at all, without even touching pve queues unless I want to, and I upgrade whatever I feel like.
I love this game, have since the first day I started playing, if I didn't still love it I would already be gone. I have tried other MMOs in the past, EVE blows, DDO was a waste of time and everything cost money, WOW is just... well I can't use that language here, but none of the ones I tried ever kept me there for more than a few weeks.
To each their own and all that but seriously I love this game and I wish some people would stop trying to make everyone else hate it.
I dont believe anybody here wants the game to fail. We just all are angry the game we enjoyed is failing. It loses us, and it loses a lot of others. So the game will shrink, as the player base fades, the budged for new content fades. Sorry I personally loved the game. Now I can not compete since they are re selling me ships I own and I can not afford to compete, and I do not wish to. The game isnt what I loved.
another entitlement claim, if i had a penny jar on these forums for each time someone makes an entitlement claim i would be a millionaire by now. :P
doesnt matter what my opinion is on your point, it wont change anything until the devs decide to completely backtrack on their own community stonewalling... since that hasnt happened in the coming up 3 years since the devs last acknowledged the community, there it is.
the problem with your position is that people spending money ARE ENTITLED. I'm not sure if you are an agent provocateur, or just want to TRIBBLE in everyone's Wheaties.
Space the final frontier. These are the voyages of [your name here] on a five year mission to gain one level after the delta rising xp nerf.
the problem with your position is that people spending money ARE ENTITLED. I'm not sure if you are an agent provocateur, or just want to TRIBBLE in everyone's Wheaties.
Specialisation is laborious and I can accept Cryptic doesn't want us to burn this out in weeks but set something too long term and players will look and think "every day for 1 year? TRIBBLE that I need something that gives me an incentive/reward in the short term".
This reminded me of a quote I read in a Dev blog I read a few months back, possibly around the time of the last season release, where one of the content designers explained that they wanted players to feel like they've achieved something every time they logged in. I hope they stick to that and adjust the XP gain as currently, I feel anything but.
I do not believe I mentioned anything about progression anywhere in my post, I said the way I play has not changed, which it has not. I pretty much ignore progression, it'll happen when it happens, and otherwise I don't much care about it. I do gain a level pretty much every day on any characters I play for the day, just doing my normal round of rep stuff, various missions I feel like playing again and my Doff assignments. I max my daily dilithium with almost no effort at all, without even touching pve queues unless I want to, and I upgrade whatever I feel like.
I love this game, have since the first day I started playing, if I didn't still love it I would already be gone. I have tried other MMOs in the past, EVE blows, DDO was a waste of time and everything cost money, WOW is just... well I can't use that language here, but none of the ones I tried ever kept me there for more than a few weeks.
To each their own and all that but seriously I love this game and I wish some people would stop trying to make everyone else hate it.
Progression and repetition was a major part of my OP... that you disagreed 150,000% with.
I'm glad for you. Really. And yes, to each their own.
Don't assume that just because I'm fed up with certain (recent) aspects of the game, that I'd rather that remained the case... or that there aren't aspects of the game I like... 'cos that ain't so, Joe.
Most of those that are expressing similar sentiments are unhappyish where once they WERE happyish... and either there has been an exodus since DR or there are secret STF queues somewhere.
Make everyone else hate it? That's just not true. But... what are you suggesting here? That we only post wootwootwaheyspiffingratherfabhappyhappy posts?
I don't get it. Having multiple characters per player is something that players themselves want and so should the company because that generally means more $$$. After DR, it pretty much discourages in almost every aspect. Someone(Devs, PWE, Shareholders, who knows) lost touch or never really knew to begin with what many players did here in STO.
Okay, so progress was too fast to level and fully upgrade one character. However, for the player themselves, it wasn't necessarily fast because they have many more characters that also need to level up and fully upgrade. Furthermore, with many items and ships being character bound, that meant more purchasing that had to be made. It also prevent the player from being bored as quickly, usually keeps them logged in longer...the list goes on.
Now for Azrael605, he/she is fine with the grind and having many character not being top of the line or having full upgrades. This forum reinforces the fact that he/she is probably(no facts so could be wrong) the minority. When it comes to real life but also true with video games, we like having a sense of accomplishment. Yes, the journey itself is the main drive we have to continue playing, but the accomplishment is what makes us feel very good about ourselves. Hence prior to DR, there were some that had 10+ characters. They liked the accomplishment of making their character great, maxing everything out, and they enjoyed the journey enough, to do it all over again and make another.
Again, this is great for everyone, to take that away is a hard pill to swallow with many players here and who can blame them? People have a hard time adapting to change, but in STO case, its identity has changed all together of what it once was, focusing on accommodating to a completely different set of demographics.
I could go on, but, I'm tired.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
I feel exactly the same way. i have 7 toons, but i still play with only 1. before Dr this game was funny, but now it's just a full time job, if you want to upgrade your ships and theirs different builds.
i have done the delta quadrant episode for 1 toon, and it was so boring that i can't decide myself to do it again for my alts. this is the worse expansion, that i have seen in a game.
every things added with DR have killed the fun in this game; R&D system, upgrade system, new levels, + bugs which are never fixed.
they add new stuff, but even covered by a shiny thing, a heap of TRIBBLE stays a heap of TRIBBLE.
It's not a question of 'pressure' to progress... or of being 'worried' about having unmaxed whatevers... simply that such things DO matter as they are integral to the design philosophy of STO (and other MMOs), and (I would argue) most players.
Certain content (for example) is 'gated' by progression requirements: a crude and obvious example in STO being the level-gating of Delta Quadrant episodes where the episodes themselves do not supply sufficient XP to pass the deliberately-designed gates without repeating content. It's why some players are expressing dismay about putting their alts through DR content which is (in my opinion) a fundamental MISunderstanding on behalf of Cryptic about the sensitivities, expectations and play-style of many (altoholic) STO players.
To me, this is all like having to read, and reread, and reread yet again chapter 4 of a book before being allowed to see chapter 5. Only multiplied by 150,000
It's nuts... and doesn't even vaguely resemble a well-designed MMO levelling-curve.
Certain popular old STFs were adjusted to take into account new skills/upgrades introduced in DR... which again pushes players to repeat content to acquire enough marks/points to tackle the adjusted old STF content, especially on elite settings.
I would argue that the new STFs are gated in a similar way and are aimed at players that have upgraded some/all of their space gear to MKXIV, a process which requires EC/Dil while the opportunities for EC/Dil acquisition have themselves not been adjusted to cater to the demands introduced by DR and the latest crafting iteration.
Is this good game design?
In short... the content of DR is insufficient to achieve any of the progression aspects introduced with the release itself... without an UNFUN quantity of repetition and a greater investment in time. This has been made worse by the recent 'readjustments' which have resulted in the necessity to repeat content even more, especially for players with a stable of alts as the DOFF rewards are now a pittance... which in itself FORCES players to repeat content over and over on each alt to an (in my opinion) unsustainable degree.
I didn't introduce the insane crafting clickgrind or have any say as to how many months of daily clicking it would take to reach level 20 or years to max all crafting schools... I didn't introduce the new level cap... or the number of specialisation points needed to unlock new abilities. I didn't decide on the dilithium requirements of crafted gear or the new upgrade system. I didn't introduce new targets to aim for and then completely fail to provide enough opportunity to achieve those targets without unbelievable quantities of repetition/grind... Cryptic did.
It's not my fault. I'm just passing opinion. MY opinion. Is all.
Sure, I could step back and try not to notice... concentrate purely on the good things... but as I said, being forced to read and re-read and re-read chapter 4 is not my idea of a good book.
I'm glad you see all of this differently... but I stand by the original post.
Im a new player to STO. I wanted to give this game a try. Now Im neutral into my feelings so I see good and bad on STO development.
I share OPs opinion on how STO is going, however I dont have his years of experience in this game yet. I have seen and read critics and fanboyz arguments that have helped me understand STO direction.
The bad
What I see from my short 2 weeks of playing is an endless grind with little reward or too much reward with restrictions on other situation. Only real break is if you use real dollars. Then you can have the good stuff much sooner. I dont have a problem with earning my own goodies through hard work, but not as a slave. I have a job in RL I dont need a second one for entertainment purposes. I play a game for entertainment so why must I slave to enjoy a game? Or you get reward on certain items because other restrictions you have over stock of ore and cant process it to crystals. STO is unbalanced and again designed to frustrate players to ether wait or pay $$$ to get around the loop hole.
What I also see is a lack of bug fixes. Some bugs are game breaking. Ive posted and send information on these glitches and I see a lack of transparency on their part to the fans. This is bad. In the end without a stable client I cant really enjoy the game fully because in the back of my mind sto crashes ticking time bomb waiting to happen again. There are more but very minor and no MMO is perfect I understand this.
The good
I see there is a lot of cool feature in this game that has me intrigued for STO future. I love the ships and custom looks you can do to them and build your own style of ship that fit your own persona. Character design isnt that bad. If you can afford it or have unlocked the features you have cool choices. Atmosphere is amazing.. Story was cool for the fed science officer.. dunno if other class types have different storylines or if Klingons are way cooler than feds? I really enjoy space and land adventures each has their merits. Nice short and sweet missions fun todo some of them. In all I can see STO being something great. Compared to so many other MMOs Ive played STO has the potential for being the greatest. There are qualities in STO I really enjoy I wish to see balance and more fairness in how cryptic treats us. If they do STO could beat all the rest.
BUT it comes down to Cryptic listening to us. I wanted to pay for that 200$ life time deal, it is a damn great deal for any mmo to have. Except with my two serious issues with STO. I wont give them a cent. Im not stupid enough to fall for that trap and Im not a sucker. Sorry cryptic find someone else to mooch off of, if you want my $$$ they have to fix this game and show me respect and dont be so damn greedy.
Thats my assessment of this short term experience with STO. I would like a more long term enjoyable STO experience but thats up to cryptic.
Im a new player to STO. I wanted to give this game a try. Now Im neutral into my feelings so I see good and bad on STO development.....
I'm glad you're getting involved with the forums far quicker than me
STO is not a TRIBBLE game... but then (despite this thread) I have enjoyed every MMO I have ever played, to varying degrees. I'm not a huge WoW fan (for example) but fondly remember the laughs I had in that game with epic raid fails. WoW taught me not to be an MMO min/maxer
The lifetime offer is steep... but a good one, I think. Or rather it was once. Since the release of Delta Rising though, my advice would be to stick to one or two characters... which would negate many of the benefits of a lifetime account.
There are some excellent episodes for each faction and also some decent foundry missions so I know you'll enjoy the game until... well... until you don't!
Me: 40+ year fan of Star Trek, been playing since Beta. Been railing hard against Cryptic's handling of this game since Beta. There. That's out of the way.
But this time I'm going to reign myself in (I've been ill).
I think that the repetitive nature of STO is its single greatest downfall - even above the nothing-but-grind that the game has become.
Even with all of the unquashed bugs and the game-breaking problems each patch introduces, the underlying philosophy of gameplay is at the core of STO's ills.
At the beginning, many of us complained about the lack of content and the repetitive, mind-numbing content that did exist.
The Genesis system of the cluster missions was an example of this. While Genesis was supposed to be dynamic and generate new and different missions each time we found a planet to "explore," all it really did was drop us into a cookie-cutter mill of the same types of missions:
Enter space and destroy 5 groups of ships
Enter space and scan 5 anomalies.
Beam to a planet and scan 5 things.
Beam to a planet and scan 5 things while fighting 5 groups.
Enter space and buy 10 commodities from the replicator to give to a planet.
That's all there was. Frequently, the exact same dialogue would pop up on the screen and the only difference would be the look of the alien telling you what your objectives were.
While I was playing the Delta Rising missions, it dawned on me that despite the different characters from Voyager telling us different things, many of the missions basically followed a Genesis-like progression.
Warp into the system
Talk to someone
Engage in initial combat to protect a ship or individual
Defeat X amount of enemies
Move on
The difference was that they had a few extra bells and whistles, but the pattern was still the same - and this time it's static because it's not created by Genesis. And I'm not even talking about the patrol missions.
WARNING: SPOILER FOLLOWS:
The grand finale of DR is pretty much the same, only it's stretched out a bit. Warp into a system, defeat X number of bad guy fleets. Warp out, go to the next system, do it all again.
There's no variety or excitement in any of it - at all. And it all feels like we've fallen into the clusters that Cryptic removed.
For years, even me with my railing and harsh, nasty criticism, we haven't given up hope on STO, but it sure feels like Cryptic did. It seems that the best they're capable of is rehashing what we've already done and adding a few tiny things here and there that in the end don't alleviate the boredom or repetition.
And then they slice the rewards down. I mean, honestly. The blue pistol as a reward for the last episode (not including the "bonus mission")? That's not a reward, it's a joke on the players, and so far I don't hear anyone laughing.
This game needs an entirely new direction. It needs better story that is better suited to the Star Trek universe. The "Prime" timeline, since that's the timeline in which STO exists.
And there's plenty of ways to do it.
Over the years I have repeatedly suggested that Cryptic hire real Trek writers to pen stories for adaptation and implementation in STO. Fan-produced, non-profit web series get not only Trek alum cast but writers as well. Surely, PWE can afford one or two.
Original Series writers D.C. Fontana and David Gerrold have written for "Star Trek: Phase II." Jack Trevino, who wrote the DS9 episode "Little Green Men" penned the fan-made "Star Trek: Of Gods and Men," which starred so many Trek actors it's not even funny.
Get some old blood into STO. Let the people who made Star Trek great have a crack at making STO's episodes great.
Hire some of the Foundry authors. Some of those missions are fantastic - and they're written by people who apparently know Trek a lot better than STO's writers do.
Then create some fantastic content around those stories. That's how you turn this game around.
Give us something new. Not just rehashed nonsense that feels years old the moment it's new.
I've post my feeling on DR in other threads. But this is a nice collection of like minded comments.
In short, Specialization? Don't care. Delta Quandrant? Don't care. They don't exists for me. I'm going back to playing the game like I was before. Do Daillies on characters I want to play for that day. Earn Dil, DOFF and EC for the fleet base. And to Sto'Vo'Kor with the rest.
And if Cryptic want's a more precise reason of my displeasure with the game...The exponential increase in the leveling requirment from 50-60. Simple as that.
You bring some good points up stelakkh, I've not played this game long enough to see those repetitions. Yes there are same goals in the missions. but still new to me. The loot drops are a joke from time to time.. blue stuff or items way below your level range. I found that kinda funny.
I didn't start the foundry because I didn't know much about it.. So you say foundry is better... I'll have to give it a try. I like STO lore and being an old fasa table top player I like role playing startrek and being as authentic as I can be...
I find however STO cryptic is not lore friendly on the FED side. I didn't try the other empires yet.
Interesting stelakkh thanks,
nuqi thanks for your comment. Not a wow fan myself... closest game to that I've played is Starwars The old republic. Most fun online game I've played is eve online and most brutal.
Don't tell anyone but I hid under a quilt while watching 'Arena' way back when originally aired in the UK. Have loved Trek ever since. Kssss... ssssssssk.
I played the game at release for four months by which time I had three maxed characters. I'd had a blast but hit the 'now what' wall at a time when there was nothing else to do... so I left with a thank you and adieu. I find it really difficult to stay, rinse and repeat ad nauseum... especially when there are so many other gameworlds to experience. I fear I'm being pushed away more forcefully this time. Hey ho.
I'm all for the idea of bringing in writers - and perhaps even designers - from the various iterations of Trek. Crank out some classic plot content.
I didn't start the foundry because I didn't know much about it.. So you say foundry is better... I'll have to give it a try. I like STO lore and being an old fasa table top player I like role playing startrek and being as authentic as I can be...
Addressing this specifically, the Foundry missions are authored by players, for players. Some of them are funny ("Sword of the Kuvagh M'agh" is hysterical, if you read the dialogue). Some of them are kind of not so good, but the majority are pretty good, and most better than the hackneyed stuff Cryptic throws at us.
Give them a try.
What I don't like about the Foundry is that I view it as Cryptic being incredibly lazy and really taking serious advantage of the players. Foundry authors provide content for Cryptic's game - and they don't get paid by Cryptic.
So Cryptic gets content added to the game that's better than their own - and they get it for free.
That, I don't like. Especially given the state of the game since day one.
I've always been a Trek nut... but I enjoy MMOs. The former does not outweigh the latter, at least not for me. That said I do remember coming over all fistpumpy when I became aware that a 'triple-a' Trek MMO was being designed.
Long journey since then.
This exactly. If I want Star Trek, I need here.
I agree with the OP also. I log in, refine dilithium, cycle doffs, do a bug hunt for just enough marks to turn in for rep, then leave. I need 250 marks yet to finish my gel pack having acquired the torpedo thanks to the Mirror event and between rep needs and low mark rewards for the content I can actually complete, I need to do bug hunt about 10 times yet with a long cooldown between for the 25 mark reward. I choose to do it 1 time a day for a week and a half instead of sit in my ship doing patrols for 5 marks and not seeing my xp bar move more than microns. This doesn't even count my other 3 that are 54 to 58 and slogging more slowly at the pace of a wounded snail in reverse.
Comments
Probably more like $10. If they bother you so much, why are you reading them or responding? So you can troll people with legitimate concerns like the OP & those who agree with their opinion. Give it a rest. We get your position already, mainly because it's in every single similar post.
:rolleyes:
Grind ec isn't a problem with new RnD, dil is also easy now that queues award some good dil plus a few marks, but look at the xp gain cryptic. 1200 xp for completing a pve queve mission means you'll have to beat it more than 100 times to fill the xp bar, just for a single level. Doffing also takes long but it has been ok for me, they aren't the "core" way to develop in the game.
Every resource must have a fun way to be aquired and in large amounts. not saying it must not require grinding, just that 100+ missions for a level is way past the line. Consider giving xp rewards based on the difficulty level for the PvEs, just like dil and mark rewards, or perhaps on the average time needed for that mission, so that longer missions ("The Breach" mission, for example) become once again attractive.
Same could go for the kills xp, if you had the xp reward from a kill being proportional to the time it would take to kill that specific enemy (shield hp, hull hp and damage resists), it would feel more natural levelling via random slaughter.
Having an efficient and fun way to farm xp would help, so i don't feel stuck on levels progression while playing anymore whenever I try to quickly grind a level nor bored after the 7th run on same map. Right now, found argala patrol to be the best xp/time grind, managed to pull out arround 750 xp per minute there but it needs to be repeated 23 times for a single level. after a few runs get tired of it and run 1 viscous cycle in elite (2x, as it has a 50% chance to auto fail due to bugs) to find out it gives a tiny bit of xp points compared to the 160k bar.
I understand you want levelling to take some time and effort to be achieved, but do it via repeating the same map over and over is not the way to do so. People can give up on some fun to get xp faster but if even the fastest by far is too slow, its not worth.
Sounds like a good idea. If devs don't see anything other than their income, that should call their attention.
Flying a 15k dps dual cannons hazari destroyer. Let the discussion begin!
Very well put. It sums up my attitude.
I finally subscribed in September after playing for over a year. I was in the habit of playing way too much and buying a new ship every few months. I'd also amassed many Alts and enjoyed leveling an new guy every so often.
The recent changes to the game (particularly the PVE queues and augmented bad guys) have been way to drastic, and really squeezed most of the fun out of the game.
I canceled my subscription today, and as with many others, I'll just dabble with the game in the hopes that the dead queues will be adjusted to something worthwhile, and the grinding will be scaled back to something a bit less demoralizing.
8 active characters (fed tac/eng/sci, kdf tac/eng/sci, fedrom tac and kdfrom tac).
My 2 eng and sci's have already fallen by the wayside with accolades etc and even optimal setups etc; they could do nws preDR and competent at everything preDR as a whole but I use them when I specifically need eng/sci or my tacs are all on cd. Typically now all I do is reputation, doffing and events but that's about it.
My 4 tacs are my big players. They have all accolades attainable so far except 5 lv20 schools and, everything maxed out or fully done and yet still play the game.
With DR I'm increasingly wondering if this is feasible now. The pathfinder pack is a sci package and yes the trait is transferable and the bridges are lovely but after a few trips to see it and admire it's not something I use to play. A fed sci ship isn't much use to me who has only 1 primary fed character that's a tac. Yes nothing is stopping me doing it but I tend to go tac>escort/destroyer typically.
Being pushed more towards 1 character of 1 faction means less reason to buy anything for the kdf or romulans and even fed eng/sci ish stuff is a struggle to justify. In fact you could take it further and say why buy anything period when account based multiple alts made the purchase worthwhile? I might as well grind out for free in game for 1 character and use what stuff I've got already.
The R&D system I'm pushing different schools on different toons but this is the only perk as far as I can tell. The story missions are so patrol based and what story there is, is good but it's lost in the grind which we need to perform. Specialisation is laborious and I can accept Cryptic doesn't want us to burn this out in weeks but set something too long term and players will look and think "every day for 1 year? TRIBBLE that I need something that gives me an incentive/reward in the short term".
With regards to pvp that's dead and gave up on that long before DR so end of point.
PVE is going the same way for different reasons now. Most queues are dead only some are good for playing now. This drive to craft epic mk14 stuff in some cases isn't need and for missions that do are dead so why grind out for stuff that I need for queues that are dead?
It's not looking good really.
This is what the dev's are thinking... :rolleyes:
These are apparently not unintended consequences; it's working as it was designed!
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Great stuff. Pleased as punch on your behalf.
And I'd be proud to be on your ignore list.
At the moment, because I can, I play @6 hours per day... and there's no way progression-aspects of the game haven't slowed since DR... and repetitive-aspects of the game haven't increased... so whatever it is that you're doing, you must have it all nailed solid. Super. Aces, you.
I dont believe anybody here wants the game to fail. We just all are angry the game we enjoyed is failing. It loses us, and it loses a lot of others. So the game will shrink, as the player base fades, the budged for new content fades. Sorry I personally loved the game. Now I can not compete since they are re selling me ships I own and I can not afford to compete, and I do not wish to. The game isnt what I loved.
the problem with your position is that people spending money ARE ENTITLED. I'm not sure if you are an agent provocateur, or just want to TRIBBLE in everyone's Wheaties.
this, so much this
This reminded me of a quote I read in a Dev blog I read a few months back, possibly around the time of the last season release, where one of the content designers explained that they wanted players to feel like they've achieved something every time they logged in. I hope they stick to that and adjust the XP gain as currently, I feel anything but.
Progression and repetition was a major part of my OP... that you disagreed 150,000% with.
I'm glad for you. Really. And yes, to each their own.
Don't assume that just because I'm fed up with certain (recent) aspects of the game, that I'd rather that remained the case... or that there aren't aspects of the game I like... 'cos that ain't so, Joe.
Most of those that are expressing similar sentiments are unhappyish where once they WERE happyish... and either there has been an exodus since DR or there are secret STF queues somewhere.
Make everyone else hate it? That's just not true. But... what are you suggesting here? That we only post wootwootwaheyspiffingratherfabhappyhappy posts?
Okay, so progress was too fast to level and fully upgrade one character. However, for the player themselves, it wasn't necessarily fast because they have many more characters that also need to level up and fully upgrade. Furthermore, with many items and ships being character bound, that meant more purchasing that had to be made. It also prevent the player from being bored as quickly, usually keeps them logged in longer...the list goes on.
Now for Azrael605, he/she is fine with the grind and having many character not being top of the line or having full upgrades. This forum reinforces the fact that he/she is probably(no facts so could be wrong) the minority. When it comes to real life but also true with video games, we like having a sense of accomplishment. Yes, the journey itself is the main drive we have to continue playing, but the accomplishment is what makes us feel very good about ourselves. Hence prior to DR, there were some that had 10+ characters. They liked the accomplishment of making their character great, maxing everything out, and they enjoyed the journey enough, to do it all over again and make another.
Again, this is great for everyone, to take that away is a hard pill to swallow with many players here and who can blame them? People have a hard time adapting to change, but in STO case, its identity has changed all together of what it once was, focusing on accommodating to a completely different set of demographics.
I could go on, but, I'm tired.
i have done the delta quadrant episode for 1 toon, and it was so boring that i can't decide myself to do it again for my alts. this is the worse expansion, that i have seen in a game.
every things added with DR have killed the fun in this game; R&D system, upgrade system, new levels, + bugs which are never fixed.
they add new stuff, but even covered by a shiny thing, a heap of TRIBBLE stays a heap of TRIBBLE.
since DR, this game is a big disillusionment.
I guess I look at MMOs differently.
It's not a question of 'pressure' to progress... or of being 'worried' about having unmaxed whatevers... simply that such things DO matter as they are integral to the design philosophy of STO (and other MMOs), and (I would argue) most players.
Certain content (for example) is 'gated' by progression requirements: a crude and obvious example in STO being the level-gating of Delta Quadrant episodes where the episodes themselves do not supply sufficient XP to pass the deliberately-designed gates without repeating content. It's why some players are expressing dismay about putting their alts through DR content which is (in my opinion) a fundamental MISunderstanding on behalf of Cryptic about the sensitivities, expectations and play-style of many (altoholic) STO players.
To me, this is all like having to read, and reread, and reread yet again chapter 4 of a book before being allowed to see chapter 5. Only multiplied by 150,000
It's nuts... and doesn't even vaguely resemble a well-designed MMO levelling-curve.
Certain popular old STFs were adjusted to take into account new skills/upgrades introduced in DR... which again pushes players to repeat content to acquire enough marks/points to tackle the adjusted old STF content, especially on elite settings.
I would argue that the new STFs are gated in a similar way and are aimed at players that have upgraded some/all of their space gear to MKXIV, a process which requires EC/Dil while the opportunities for EC/Dil acquisition have themselves not been adjusted to cater to the demands introduced by DR and the latest crafting iteration.
Is this good game design?
In short... the content of DR is insufficient to achieve any of the progression aspects introduced with the release itself... without an UNFUN quantity of repetition and a greater investment in time. This has been made worse by the recent 'readjustments' which have resulted in the necessity to repeat content even more, especially for players with a stable of alts as the DOFF rewards are now a pittance... which in itself FORCES players to repeat content over and over on each alt to an (in my opinion) unsustainable degree.
I didn't introduce the insane crafting clickgrind or have any say as to how many months of daily clicking it would take to reach level 20 or years to max all crafting schools... I didn't introduce the new level cap... or the number of specialisation points needed to unlock new abilities. I didn't decide on the dilithium requirements of crafted gear or the new upgrade system. I didn't introduce new targets to aim for and then completely fail to provide enough opportunity to achieve those targets without unbelievable quantities of repetition/grind... Cryptic did.
It's not my fault. I'm just passing opinion. MY opinion. Is all.
Sure, I could step back and try not to notice... concentrate purely on the good things... but as I said, being forced to read and re-read and re-read chapter 4 is not my idea of a good book.
I'm glad you see all of this differently... but I stand by the original post.
I share OPs opinion on how STO is going, however I dont have his years of experience in this game yet. I have seen and read critics and fanboyz arguments that have helped me understand STO direction.
The bad
What I see from my short 2 weeks of playing is an endless grind with little reward or too much reward with restrictions on other situation. Only real break is if you use real dollars. Then you can have the good stuff much sooner. I dont have a problem with earning my own goodies through hard work, but not as a slave. I have a job in RL I dont need a second one for entertainment purposes. I play a game for entertainment so why must I slave to enjoy a game? Or you get reward on certain items because other restrictions you have over stock of ore and cant process it to crystals. STO is unbalanced and again designed to frustrate players to ether wait or pay $$$ to get around the loop hole.
What I also see is a lack of bug fixes. Some bugs are game breaking. Ive posted and send information on these glitches and I see a lack of transparency on their part to the fans. This is bad. In the end without a stable client I cant really enjoy the game fully because in the back of my mind sto crashes ticking time bomb waiting to happen again. There are more but very minor and no MMO is perfect I understand this.
The good
I see there is a lot of cool feature in this game that has me intrigued for STO future. I love the ships and custom looks you can do to them and build your own style of ship that fit your own persona. Character design isnt that bad. If you can afford it or have unlocked the features you have cool choices. Atmosphere is amazing.. Story was cool for the fed science officer.. dunno if other class types have different storylines or if Klingons are way cooler than feds? I really enjoy space and land adventures each has their merits. Nice short and sweet missions fun todo some of them. In all I can see STO being something great. Compared to so many other MMOs Ive played STO has the potential for being the greatest. There are qualities in STO I really enjoy I wish to see balance and more fairness in how cryptic treats us. If they do STO could beat all the rest.
BUT it comes down to Cryptic listening to us. I wanted to pay for that 200$ life time deal, it is a damn great deal for any mmo to have. Except with my two serious issues with STO. I wont give them a cent. Im not stupid enough to fall for that trap and Im not a sucker. Sorry cryptic find someone else to mooch off of, if you want my $$$ they have to fix this game and show me respect and dont be so damn greedy.
Thats my assessment of this short term experience with STO. I would like a more long term enjoyable STO experience but thats up to cryptic.
I'm glad you're getting involved with the forums far quicker than me
STO is not a TRIBBLE game... but then (despite this thread) I have enjoyed every MMO I have ever played, to varying degrees. I'm not a huge WoW fan (for example) but fondly remember the laughs I had in that game with epic raid fails. WoW taught me not to be an MMO min/maxer
The lifetime offer is steep... but a good one, I think. Or rather it was once. Since the release of Delta Rising though, my advice would be to stick to one or two characters... which would negate many of the benefits of a lifetime account.
There are some excellent episodes for each faction and also some decent foundry missions so I know you'll enjoy the game until... well... until you don't!
Best of luck
Me: 40+ year fan of Star Trek, been playing since Beta. Been railing hard against Cryptic's handling of this game since Beta. There. That's out of the way.
But this time I'm going to reign myself in (I've been ill).
I think that the repetitive nature of STO is its single greatest downfall - even above the nothing-but-grind that the game has become.
Even with all of the unquashed bugs and the game-breaking problems each patch introduces, the underlying philosophy of gameplay is at the core of STO's ills.
At the beginning, many of us complained about the lack of content and the repetitive, mind-numbing content that did exist.
The Genesis system of the cluster missions was an example of this. While Genesis was supposed to be dynamic and generate new and different missions each time we found a planet to "explore," all it really did was drop us into a cookie-cutter mill of the same types of missions:
That's all there was. Frequently, the exact same dialogue would pop up on the screen and the only difference would be the look of the alien telling you what your objectives were.
While I was playing the Delta Rising missions, it dawned on me that despite the different characters from Voyager telling us different things, many of the missions basically followed a Genesis-like progression.
The difference was that they had a few extra bells and whistles, but the pattern was still the same - and this time it's static because it's not created by Genesis. And I'm not even talking about the patrol missions.
The grand finale of DR is pretty much the same, only it's stretched out a bit. Warp into a system, defeat X number of bad guy fleets. Warp out, go to the next system, do it all again.
There's no variety or excitement in any of it - at all. And it all feels like we've fallen into the clusters that Cryptic removed.
For years, even me with my railing and harsh, nasty criticism, we haven't given up hope on STO, but it sure feels like Cryptic did. It seems that the best they're capable of is rehashing what we've already done and adding a few tiny things here and there that in the end don't alleviate the boredom or repetition.
And then they slice the rewards down. I mean, honestly. The blue pistol as a reward for the last episode (not including the "bonus mission")? That's not a reward, it's a joke on the players, and so far I don't hear anyone laughing.
This game needs an entirely new direction. It needs better story that is better suited to the Star Trek universe. The "Prime" timeline, since that's the timeline in which STO exists.
And there's plenty of ways to do it.
Over the years I have repeatedly suggested that Cryptic hire real Trek writers to pen stories for adaptation and implementation in STO. Fan-produced, non-profit web series get not only Trek alum cast but writers as well. Surely, PWE can afford one or two.
Original Series writers D.C. Fontana and David Gerrold have written for "Star Trek: Phase II." Jack Trevino, who wrote the DS9 episode "Little Green Men" penned the fan-made "Star Trek: Of Gods and Men," which starred so many Trek actors it's not even funny.
Get some old blood into STO. Let the people who made Star Trek great have a crack at making STO's episodes great.
Hire some of the Foundry authors. Some of those missions are fantastic - and they're written by people who apparently know Trek a lot better than STO's writers do.
Then create some fantastic content around those stories. That's how you turn this game around.
Give us something new. Not just rehashed nonsense that feels years old the moment it's new.
In short, Specialization? Don't care. Delta Quandrant? Don't care. They don't exists for me. I'm going back to playing the game like I was before. Do Daillies on characters I want to play for that day. Earn Dil, DOFF and EC for the fleet base. And to Sto'Vo'Kor with the rest.
And if Cryptic want's a more precise reason of my displeasure with the game...The exponential increase in the leveling requirment from 50-60. Simple as that.
I didn't start the foundry because I didn't know much about it.. So you say foundry is better... I'll have to give it a try. I like STO lore and being an old fasa table top player I like role playing startrek and being as authentic as I can be...
I find however STO cryptic is not lore friendly on the FED side. I didn't try the other empires yet.
Interesting stelakkh thanks,
nuqi thanks for your comment. Not a wow fan myself... closest game to that I've played is Starwars The old republic. Most fun online game I've played is eve online and most brutal.
Thanks for the good read
Don't tell anyone but I hid under a quilt while watching 'Arena' way back when originally aired in the UK. Have loved Trek ever since. Kssss... ssssssssk.
I played the game at release for four months by which time I had three maxed characters. I'd had a blast but hit the 'now what' wall at a time when there was nothing else to do... so I left with a thank you and adieu. I find it really difficult to stay, rinse and repeat ad nauseum... especially when there are so many other gameworlds to experience. I fear I'm being pushed away more forcefully this time. Hey ho.
I'm all for the idea of bringing in writers - and perhaps even designers - from the various iterations of Trek. Crank out some classic plot content.
Nice one.
Addressing this specifically, the Foundry missions are authored by players, for players. Some of them are funny ("Sword of the Kuvagh M'agh" is hysterical, if you read the dialogue). Some of them are kind of not so good, but the majority are pretty good, and most better than the hackneyed stuff Cryptic throws at us.
Give them a try.
What I don't like about the Foundry is that I view it as Cryptic being incredibly lazy and really taking serious advantage of the players. Foundry authors provide content for Cryptic's game - and they don't get paid by Cryptic.
So Cryptic gets content added to the game that's better than their own - and they get it for free.
That, I don't like. Especially given the state of the game since day one.
I only have 8 chars but I find myself in your post for sure.
For me DR is the greatest disapointment ever seen in STO.
Could have been so cool, all of it. But not the way it was implemented by Cryptic.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
People at Cryptic: we have a mutual goal. You and the players want people playing.
1.) fix the dilithium rewards. You nerfed them to the point where you made STO feel like work.
2.) Fix the level progression/skill points. See result on #1. Same outcome.
This exactly. If I want Star Trek, I need here.
I agree with the OP also. I log in, refine dilithium, cycle doffs, do a bug hunt for just enough marks to turn in for rep, then leave. I need 250 marks yet to finish my gel pack having acquired the torpedo thanks to the Mirror event and between rep needs and low mark rewards for the content I can actually complete, I need to do bug hunt about 10 times yet with a long cooldown between for the 25 mark reward. I choose to do it 1 time a day for a week and a half instead of sit in my ship doing patrols for 5 marks and not seeing my xp bar move more than microns. This doesn't even count my other 3 that are 54 to 58 and slogging more slowly at the pace of a wounded snail in reverse.