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Advice for new Sci captain (space)
dykeras
Member Posts: 326 Arc User
I main a Tac captain and although it is great fun, a few weeks back I decided to start a Sci captain but having great difficulty... 
I originally had difficulty on te ground (but thanks to the help of people here) I am well on the way to soring that out :-)
The problem now is space :rolleyes: I think my main problem is that I am still n the 'Tactical' mindset and trying to treat my Sci ship as a Tac ship and not having much success :P . So, could anyone pont me in the direction of a decent guide showing how to utilise exotic damage, skill point allocation and main skills to use.
I have been flying a tactical escort (as I said, in the tactical mindset) but I am really thinking of buying the new Pathfinder Sci ship... but not want to buy it if I don't have a clue how to fly it...
I originally had difficulty on te ground (but thanks to the help of people here) I am well on the way to soring that out :-)
The problem now is space :rolleyes: I think my main problem is that I am still n the 'Tactical' mindset and trying to treat my Sci ship as a Tac ship and not having much success :P . So, could anyone pont me in the direction of a decent guide showing how to utilise exotic damage, skill point allocation and main skills to use.
I have been flying a tactical escort (as I said, in the tactical mindset) but I am really thinking of buying the new Pathfinder Sci ship... but not want to buy it if I don't have a clue how to fly it...
Post edited by dykeras on
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Here are ideas on how to reach high particle generators: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1297581
Doffs are quite important to improve science abilties. I listed some in the above link.
Congratulations on graduating to the weird and whacky world of science captains!
I have quite a few science ships now and here's a few tips.
1. Don't expect to see HUGE numbers, allot of sci's affectiveness is hold/placate/heal. That's not to say you can't see big numbers but they take a while to get.
2. Pick an ability you want to focus on! Too many times i see people trying to mix and match their sci abilities so they become a jack of all trades and master of none. My suggestions at the moment would be a gravity well boat or a power drain boat. (I'll post links to my builds for these ships at the end).
For leveling power drain is kinda difficult to achieve due to the necessity for high flow caps and special "toy" consoles that i use for the build. I would suggest a well build (this is only going to work from level 20 on since gravity well 1 is a lt cmdr skill) Get a good quantum torpedo and torp spread 2. make sure you have the tac console that matches your energy weapon type and even tho sci ships can be maneuverable it can still be difficult to bring your torpedoes to bear. I suggest using rcs consoles in your engi slots. Fill your sci slots with whatever console will affect your sci abilities best. (flow caps - energy drain; particle generators - grav well)
Also do not discount the importance of space doffs! 3 deflector officers, a gravimetric scientist and one of those new xindi doffs make life very easy on a well boat.
On a side note and this would work for any captain really, I've grown to love beam weapons with the [Over] Trait on them, my well boat as well as a guardian cruiser i'm working on all of my beam arrays have that proc, I can't give you a real statistic on how often i see it go off but It's often enough that i should think it makes a difference. It takes some patience to craft the weapons you want with correct traits and then upgrading them can be a pain but in the end scenario i like to think it's worth while.
I hope these idea work for you. Below are a couple links to some of my sci ships for you to peruse.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=gravtorpupdated_0
thats my well/torp boat
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=powerdrainvesta_0
Here's a power drain on a vesta.
random edit for a thought that just occurred to me, use your Subsystem targeting abilities! that is all
1.) Get the Science R&D trait "Particle Manipulator"
2.) Get your Particle Generator stat to 400 (this is most easily achieved with 4x fleet part gen consoles, 1x exotic particle field exciter with [PrtG], and a Conductive RCS Accelerator with [PrtG])
3.) Double up on Tractor Beam Repulsors and get the Graga Mal duty officer
4.) Equip torpedoes out the butt
5.) Enjoy hilarious DPS
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=19220791&postcount=45
And you can fly a sci captain as a hybrid of the two ideas which is something I have personally become very happy with. My ships for my sci captain (and its my main, if I have such a thing) are not sci ships but carefully selected lockbox/lobi ships. This concept may fall behind with t6 and going forward but even now my adapted cruiser with 4 sci consoles and 8 guns can do anything I want done in PVE, and then some. So can my recluse. Time will tell on whether those eventually become totally obsolete.
Or you can fly a sci ship and kill with skills.
The go-to builds seem to be particle gen heavy with GW and tractor repulsors. A 10+ million officer (there are at least two unique ones) turns repulsors from push to pull ... Many folks use that now. A lot of sci builds also use mostly projectile weapons to round this out.
I really like my hybrid approach. With my guns doing solid dps --- its not the scimitar, but a romulan with 3 tac consoles and 8 AP beams (crafted with free overloads..!) packs a punch and my ship has commands so weapon power cost is reduced allowing less worry about keeping it at 125. That damage alone is as good or better than many of the low tac console cruisers out there: (mostly due to being a romulan, but hey, it works) and on top of it I have my TBR damage and GW damage. The downside of it is you have an expensive ship, a specific race, and a questionable future going forward with ship choices. And I am at -1 sci console, which does reduce my TBR etc damage a bit.
This is a nice manual for science vessel. However I disagree with what you say about energy weapons. They are pointless in regard to damage, yes, but not in regard to usefulness. I like the polaron proc in addition to subsystem targeting. Of course it is a proc and does not occur when you need it, but less energy from time to time helps to keep targets in the gravity well or to drop shields. For the proc the weapon damage does not matter, so blue MK XI dominion polaron or so are nice science weapons. Or plasma for plasma burn, or tetryon for...the blue color, or retrofit phasers for their nice sound etc
Also regarding, consoles. I know the embassy consoles have get the highest numbers in particle generators etc (37.5 at epic), but how are the dyson consoles in comparison? Skill is lower (25 at epic?), but they have a 10% to cause a proton proc, which is further boosted by particle generators (and aux maybe). If I calculate it right, 5 dyson consoles give a 41% chance to cause a proton proc. I m not good at this type of math though and don't know if this damage is per second or only once. (There is also a small shield heal as well)
About the Sci RnD ... I read it will take around 104 -ish days to get to Lev 15 ? I guess it gives me plenty of time to save for the Scryer
It just depends. In a pure sci ship (ignore my hybrid build) you can do some nifty things. High flow caps and tet glider with 3 turrets and 3 torps can give you significant shield stripping -- the shield damage is the same no matter if your weapon power is 15 or whatever. Shield stripping is less that it once was, but every bit helps.
You can also use a variety of proc builds.
You can also actually run *nearly* a 125 / low /low /125 power build and actually do an OK energy weapon build. You may be 1 weapon less than an escort but TBR is worth more than 1 weapon.
also if you're going for the scryer, look at the inteligence powers a bit, surgical strikes is massively deadly for some reason.
in my infinite wisdom the only t6 ships i've bought have been the dauntless and guardian so i don't get to play with int powers much
Yes, if you read the rest of my post and not only the first two sentences, you will see that I know about this
To the OP: Before you buy the scryer, look at it. Many people do not like how it looks (I do actually). It is however an amazing science vessel.
Regarding the particle manipulator and gravity well. One thing you can try to see , if you like it (until you have the trait): use cheap MK XI consoles, from exchange or so, with graviton generators to max out the "size" of the gravity well. Pulling targets from a larger area is quite nice, if you do not have all the good (and expensive) gear, doffs and traits yet for the damage. One important thing about science vessel is that you can focus on control/debuff/drain instead of damage. Later, when you have everything to max out particle generators and exotic damage (see my link) you can do both. And believe me, it is much more fun that just shooting
Yeah I asked the same question on another thread before The thing is, does the proc deal damage per tick, or is it a one-time hit. If it's a one-time hit, the damage it deals might not be too substantial compared to simply gearing up for max particle generators does it?
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
1. Get out of the mindset that the captain classes are all about 1 specific thing, regardless of what you fly. They're not. They bring specific benefits, strengths to a ship they fly. Which leads to the next point.
2. The kind of ship you fly determines the characteristics of your playstyle. For example: Regardless of what kind of captain is used, a Fed Defiant, KDF Raptor, Rom Dhelan are TAC heavy ships. And the 3 Captain classes bring very different, general benefits to them. Another example on using an Escort:
- A TAC Captain brings lots of capability to apply higher damage.
- An ENG Captain brings super-abundant subsystem power, excellent power management, excellent survivability. More power means the overall performance of your ship is better.
- A SCI Captain has an PBAOE aura to reduce energy weapon damage. He also has an ability to land a heavy debuff with a small AOE (Sensor Scan), which means anyone targeting the targets affected by Sensor Scan benefit heavily, including the Sci Captain himself. SNB is a magnificent ability to look at a target, see a beautiful array of buffs it's flying with... and remove them all.
The true determining factor of gameplay is what kind of ship you're flying and how your captain can enhance that ship's capability. You may be surprised how powerful a TAC Captain is in a Science Vessel. You may be very surprised how well a SCI Captain performs on a TAC-heavy ship (matter of fact, in PVP, that's a very nasty combo). If you intend on diving into Science heavy builds, you really need to dig into the various Science BOFF abilities are, how they act in the game, and more importantly, what skillboxes are needed to be boosted to make them effective.
Science play is far more nuanced than regular TAC oriented play. There's tons more of different skillboxes that the Science skills pick 1 or 2 out of, sometimes even 3. It's not like Hurr-Durr TAC where all you need is "Moar Energy Weapons and/or Moar Projectile Weapons" and "Moar Critz." Science does not act like that with it's abilities because a Disable ability like Viral Matrix is pathetically weak on a build designed for Drain (high Flow Capacitors).
A good primer is over at STOwiki. It's gotten far more out of date recently but it's still a decent primer.
do you know whats the dps for a well/torp build? it looks nice and i think i will try it for fun (without huge investments), but i was thinking as a main build cuz im tiered of FAW beam boats and i always had an affinity for torps. last time i tried a torp boat with JHDC i got around 7k and thats not an acceptable number for me. i want at least 15k.
You want torps with shield penetration, and traits that support that. Personally I run the torps from the Dyson and Delta rep systems, though the ones from the Undine rep work well too, just without the AoE.
Generally there are two different things to look at. One, we tend to drop shields through drains or we ignore them (or both from time to time). If we're ignoring them, torps that ignore shields work well, then add in anything that helps with your control (the dyson rep torps make a mini-grav well) and it's magic. The other option is to drop the shields totally (science ships come with shield targetting and sensor scan) in which your torps work beautifully.
The problem with the JHDC is really you have no way to mitigate shields, so you under-perform in that area. Science Vessels tend to do the opposite, since all our particle damage ignore shields. It's only on science vessels that use a heavy energy weapon build that shields matter, hence why we use torps that ignore shields most of the time on science ships.
Okay my personal opinion here... I hated the Scryer. Loved the trait, loved the lay out, but I didn't like Vulnerability mechanic over sensor scan. I'd use it just to get the trait personally though, and if you like the ship, use the ship otherwise move on.
Personally right now I'm using the new Pathfinder ship (yes I laid the money down for it even after I complained... I'm an idiot) and it's very useful for stacking TBR. I run Grav Well, Tyken's Rift and two TBRs with a torp spread I. I use the Undine space set, though I was using the Dyson space set and am concidering going back to it. Secondary Deflector is from the Dyson ship's.
Forward weapons are the experimental weapon from the Dyson set, and the two torps mentioned above (for the AoE and the shield ignoring aspects).
Aft weapons is the the Kinetic cutting beam, a 360 Polaron, and the phaser from the new Delta set.
Isn't the stock Secondary Deflector of the Pathfinder better though since it gives damage to drain skills? I'm asking because I'm flying a Pathfinder now too.
I've got GW 1 and 3 and TBR 1 and 2 as primary damage and the Gravimetric Torpedo from the Dyson Rep, a Borg Transphasic Torpedo up front and a Protonic Polaron Array up front. On the rear, I have a Rapid-fire Transphasic Torpedo (great with Torp High-Yield or Spread while towing NPCs with TBR) and two Protonic Polaron Turrets.
Console-wise, I'm running a Plasmonic Leech to boost subsystem power, Subspace Integration Circuit and Spatial Charge Launcher for added AOE spike damage the Ablative Armor from my old Intrepid for defense and for the set bonus that comes along with the Aeroshuttle (which helps augment my lack of weapon DPS). The rest are Particle Generator consoles (which I hope to replace with Embassy Consoles) and a Shield Refrequencer (Particle Generator).
Still undecided on which rep sets to pick up to complete my setup. Currently thinking of retaining my Solanae Deflector due to the boosts it gives to Particle Generators and Structural Integrity. I'm also thinking of retaining my Obelisk Warp Core for the Shield and Aux Power bonuses. I haven't decided on Shields and Engines.
Overall it's a fun ship to fly. I may not melt down opponents as quickly as other players yet since all of my stuff are MKXII rares or very rares but hopefully I can make this a powerful build. At least for now I know I can hold out on my own against multiple opponents on the normal queues I have played so far.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
You can run a better shield and get the 2pc, or run the better deflector for the gains you want and just upgrade the rather anemic Breen shield to a higher mk level. Either way, it's something to consider.
Oh, and don't forget the CC Deflector has a nice skill boost into projectile weapons. Regardless of your type, something to consider for a damage boost.
2) Don't under-estimate the 3-piece set power in the Delta Space Weapon set. That cannon is on a 1 minute cool down, deals kinetic damage, and by-passes shields, and the torps are a sight to behold against GW'd frigates.
Now that said, there is a ton of good gear in the R&D and Rep systems and gear you can simply find in missions, that they can become slightly interchangable, especially in a torp build. Don't forget the torp trait from R&D and the torp you can make at level 15 in the torp R&D is pretty good too, but it'll take a while to get to it if you haven't started.
The important thing here is if your running a part gen build, a 400 in part gens (eventually). After you hit 400, you have a lot of lee-way. Course you can go less then 400 part gens and concentrate more on other things, and in a drain build part gens aren't nearly as important.
Ships, gear, weapon systems... a lot of that is dependant upon your play style and if you run with a fleet, what your fleet wants you to do in queue missions. It's kind of worthless to be trying for max DPS, when you're fleet wants you to be more CC and you didn't spec for CC (something by the way you can do along with a drain or part gen build).
Personally in skills I always pick skills that play to my strengths first. If it effects drains, shields, holds, and part gens directly or indirectly I pick those. Then I'll carry a stable of BOffs that are interchangable to a degree dependant upon the roll my queue team needs me to be.
Being a good (and I'm not even all that good) science ship driver is not cheap in dil, EC, or time. It takes a long, long time... longer then most other ships... and a lot of resources. But once you get there.... you're amazing.
The problem is, and why so many people say Science sucks.... is that they don't want to put the time and effort into the ship, or they just don't know how.
Very true, unless you're attached to your existing warp core (say... for example, a core with 135 aux, or one that has AMP...).
It is not you, the Deteriorating Deflector cannot be upgraded (IMO yet). Interesting build, thank you for sharing.
If there would be a Sci vessel with 4/4, 4/3, 3/4, 2/4, or 4/2 I would seriously consider reintegrating energy weapons (like the Dyson and Delta items) in the 4th slot back into my builds. I would really like to reduce the 1 min cd of the Iso Cannon.
@OP I'm having a ball playing with my new Pathfinder and running with nearly all Sci skills, except for a GWII in the Lt. Commander spot as a support CC power for my for my build, that build off the Deteriorating Deflector (no Viral Matrix power though). I'm running 3 purple Deflector Doffs that have a chance to reduce cd's on Deflector powers.
I fully repecced into Flow Caps and while I'm disappointed that I'm not busting shields more (but then only two consoles are flow caps) I'm intrigued by the penetrating damage. I have noticed that CPB seems to only effect my target unlike say a GW. When I get bored with the Deteriorating Deflector I'll pick the Dyson Deflector again. A disable, hold, and other Deflectors would be interesting also.
Who knows what the new warp core will do. I do not really expect something science-friendly, but we can at least have some hope
Regarding drain: I agree, shield drain is kinda ...[insert suitable word here], but subsystem drain with polaron weapons, plasmonic leech, energy siphon and aceton assimilators is quite nice. Targets don't move anymore, have no more shields and can't shoot.
Totally agree. Shield drain by itself isn't really worth it. System Drain most certainly is. Don't forget Tyken's Rift in the list above as well, which also has a decent power drain, and along with the assimilators is one of the few AoE power drains we get.
But shield drain and only shield drain doesn't work all that well in this game. Shields come back too quick unless you shut the entire ship down, and even when you do power drain it doesn't last all that long.
If you go around just using Tachyon Beam by itself, it's worthless. If you go around using Aceton Assimilator by itself, it does pitiful drain effects. If you use Energy Siphon by itself, it's performance as a drain is worthless.
But when you slam a target with Aceton Assimilator, Energy Siphon, DOFF'ed Tractor Beam (shield drain), then hit it with Tykien's Rift... that's a different story. Most esp if you're KDF and use Energy Siphon Drones alongside all that.
Think of it as how people prep a high powered attack run. Several of their favored TAC abilities are ready and they hit it all to really spike their damage. Same thing with Science Drain attacks.
Just as you'd prepare a high powered attack run with EPTW, Attack Pattern(s), favorite cannon/beam abilities, then go.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Yep pretty much. The Dyson one only comes from the Dyson ship you got as a mission reward during one of the Featured Episodes. When the next replay weekend comes around grab it.
The rest are the mk X whites that come as standard gear on any ship that has a secondarly deflector slot. As far as white mk X gear they're not bad, but they're not upgradable at all.
Otherwise there are no secondary deflectors out that at all for purchase, which kind of sucks all around. I know there's a post laying around here somewhere from the devs that they're aware of the issue but I figure we'll get better secondary deflectors when we get all tier 5 ships with secondary deflectors... which will be about the same time as the apocalypse happens.
Yes yes, Tykens rift 3 is my commander ability, just forgot to write it