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Concerns over Current State of Game

stuartlarkinstuartlarkin Member Posts: 13 Arc User
I've been playing for the last 2 years, I've enjoyed it so much I got the life time subscription and have deeply enjoyed being able to continue the Star Trek experience through this game.

But since Delta Rising, this game has caused me nothing but endless frustration, aggravation and disappointment. I'm not alone in this and it needs to be addressed as at this point the game is all but unplayable and is certainly not fun.

I'm posting this mainly to vent, I have no real expectation the Dev's will read it or even be interested in my point of view if they do, but still I'd like to put down what I feel is wrong and see if anyone agrees

the big one PVE, at the moment, PVE is all but unachievable unless you show up with a team of high level players and know the mission inside and out, the play figures have dropped through the floor, the focus on much of the feed back has been on space, but a lot of the ground PVE's have suffered aswell and that is generally overlooked. (Mine Trap was huge fun, but looking for a random team of 20 forget it now.)

lets look at the main complaint Space Hit points. I run a number of ships and in any Borg Red Alert I can take out all of the separate encounter points solo including if required the unimatirx. However I go into a Borg Advanced PVE such as conduit, I can barely damage a sphere. This is not balance, this is locking off the top level game from new players and forcing existing players into an endless cycle of grind just to become competitive.

I already know what many will say... "learn how to play, learn how to build your ship!" I know how to do both my point is new players, the guys who keep this game alive don't and they won't take the time to learn when there is no way to progress. Although Rep Gear is still accessible via battlezones which grant Cybernetic Implants or Isomorphic Injectors, the Borg Reputation Equipment is currently locked off from new players completely, the only place to acquire Borg Neural Processors is in Advanced Borg PVE missions and unless you already have the best equipment and a team of guys you know to help, you have no hope of completing those missions. This NEED's to be addressed as Borg Rep gear is the go to for most starting players or was until now.

I appreciate the Devs have put a lot of time into the new PVE system, but its time to admit, its not working, the play figures have dropped to about 1/4 of where they used to be and are not recovering after "2 passes" as they put it of altering the hit points. Its simply to frustrating and too much effort. Challenge for end game content is one thing, frustrating compulsory objectives and auto failures with a 10 mark 'you lose' prize are quite another.
No one wants to admit they are wrong, but if this game is going to survive that's whats needed and the old PVE system reinstated until the new one can be ironed out, properly play tested and introduced. If I may suggest and normal level aimed at players to upto level 45, an intermediate level achievable routinely at level 45-59 and a Elite for level 60 for some real challenge. And when I say challenge I do not me playable with lvl XIV epic gear and a fleet of freinds with the same. Another solution would be to make nueral processors and the like available at all levels of play so people can effectively play at the level they are capable and not be penalized for not having progressed far enough in the game. Either way I would suggest whatever level, optional Objectives are reinstated and failure causes a loss to the base reward for the mission, rather than success a bonus. Auto fails help no one just cause frustration and rage and anger amongst players, this is meant to be a social game after all.

Why should the Dev's care I hear you ask, well this is hitting them in their pocket, when I was a free to play member I spent a LOT of money on new ships, bits of equipment, outfits to look cool, so I could have more fun randomly STF'ing but now I avoid space PVE completely and only do a very few ground. Its not fun and those free to player's who are dropping £20 on a new ship every now and then aren't going to be if they can't win in the first place.

(Oh and on a personal note, borg Ground STF's were hard enough before the changes loose all the extra elite Tac drones the are not needed even with a team who knows the missions you were looking at a 50/50 completion rate on those missions and usually without optional's... Much lower on Hive so please just set them back the way they were, they were plenty challenging and fun, now I've played once and never want to again.)

Moving on from the PVE complaints I'd like to highlight the new Delta Contents rewards. PVE, Patrols and Battle/adventure zones they are amazingly small, 5 marks per area captured on kobali Prime, 10 for a patrol Mission this is small, especially regarding the effort involved in both and comparing it to the rewards earned in the Dyson Ground zone and Undine Space, with no daily missions and only a bonus of 2 marks for causing an area to Escalate bringing the total to 14 for a fully completed escalation on Kobali Prime it is tiny reward. I've ground most of my Delta Marks from the Mirror event, this lack of reward really needs to be addressed as apart from Bug Hunt once I finished the Delta Content on my main toon, I've had no urge to go near it again.

Finally The Dilithum Cap needs to be re-examined, I well understand the need for it, but it was based by the Dev's admission on the average a player could make daily 2 years ago. 8K a day plus fleet and Gold Member projects bringing it up to 9K per day (average) if you have access to both. but 2 factors are now unbalancing it significantly 1) You can routinely make a lot more than 8K a day once you hit level 50 and 2) there are far more things that demand Dilitum than there use to be. The only main needs for it before Delta was the Rep Gear, Fleet Gear/ships and the Dil store. Now the Updated R&D system and the Upgrade system have put 2 new huge demands on the average players Dil requirements and with a limit of 8K a day there is only so much you can do no matter how much you have hoarded (around 100K between 2 toons in my case) I would propose a modest increase to the base Dil cap of 2000 a day bringing the base total to 10,000 a day, its a nice round number and should help off set a lot of the strain caused by the new system, but in turn not hurt the Dev's profits for people looking to buy Dil in bulk, 2K a day is not enough they still won't want to pay Zen for 100K a time.

These are my thoughts, I kind of hope some positive action is taken beacuse at this point given the way the PVE numbers have dropped off and the general anger being expressed every time something posted on the STO Facebook page as well as the fact new player progression is now significantly limited, this game probably won't be here in 6 months and I'll be back to playing Skyrim
Post edited by stuartlarkin on
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Comments

  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    This was actually a pretty well-thought out post. While I do see some flaws in your arguments, on the whole what you present are actually pretty valid criticisms. I agree with most of what you say.

    If this is you venting, you're able to do so in a coherent and respectful fashion. More posters in the STO forums could learn from your example.

    And yes, the right eyes at Cryptic should read from this and make meaningful actions in response to your feedback and other feedback like it.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • dius1981dius1981 Member Posts: 500
    edited November 2014
    I agree, pretty good / honest read from someone who is new to the forums.

    The fact that someone new is takin the time to write out this well thought out argument. Should speak volumes to any Dev who takes the time ro read it.

    The DR release need attention. And worthwhile changes.

    D,
    OMEGA ARMADA & House of Beautiful Orions
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
    >>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
    >>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
  • moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    This was actually a pretty well-thought out post. While I do see some flaws in your arguements, on the whole what you present are actually pretty valid criticisms.

    If this is you venting, you're able to do so in a coherent and respectful fashion.

    Indeed. The title is very misleading. I expected profanity, misuse of grammar and lots of crazy conspiracy theories about Cryptic.

    I have never been so proud to be proven wrong by another forumite.

    :)

    This is feedback. I encourage the devs to give it a look over.
    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"

    -Leonard Nimoy, RIP
  • tinycabbagestinycabbages Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Yup agree with it all, plus kobali prime is just BS, there's like 20 enermies everywhere you turn. It's just f'ing impossible, the enermy respawn needs to be toned down.
  • huntingdon1701huntingdon1701 Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I agree with all of this. Much that developers could learn from. So many people are fed up of the game and leaving - not posting farewell threads but just going.
  • kaiserwillykaiserwilly Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Although I do agree with a lot of the content by the OP I disagree with the conclusions.

    1: I have been playing STO since the earliest of days and I for one am delighted. Delighted because the game is hard again. I remember when the first wave of revamped borg missions appeared as the first STFs. It was great. I had something to do, and it was hard. For the first time in ages once again the game is hard.

    Thing is, it is going to get easier over time. I don't know about everyone else, but for the first time in years I log in and wonder which piece of equipment I am going to upgrade after a session of play. It is amazing to have new objectives.

    I couldn't disagree more with complaints of this kind. What is the point of advanced and elite missions if everyone can complete them within a few weeks of the update?

    2: End game borg gear. Well, you can get the upgrade items in the box you get for handing in marks. You dont need a large number of them to buy the equipment. No it isn't automatic, but it is not impossible. A few weeks from now these players who need two year old equipment will be able to join PuGs of super-equipped players that blast through it just as before. Alternatively they can still be 'carried' by fleet members who can.

    Finally on this point. You really can't do ISE? It is a lot harder than before but I still havent seen it failed yet and I have a lot of toons with old style mk 12 gear. Are you really finding groups totally failing it regularly?
  • tinead51tinead51 Member Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    This game has been "broken" for a long time. DR has just drawn the focus even tighter on it's shortcomings.

    People must still be spending enough cash in-game to keep PWE happy. Shame really, i'm sure if they noticed a sizeable drop in income they'd be more obliged to look into why?
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited November 2014



    (Oh and on a personal note, borg Ground STF's were hard enough before the changes loose all the extra elite Tac drones the are not needed even with a team who knows the missions you were looking at a 50/50 completion rate on those missions and usually without optional's... Much lower on Hive so please just set them back the way they were, they were plenty challenging and fun, now I've played once and never want to again.)

    Since I don't play space missions very often anymore, I just wanted to quote this piece.

    I agree. There was no need to change the borg ground stf's, those were fine. Sure, there were some players who did those like the majority of the playes did the old Infected space elite (that is, with great ease). For most people though, the old elite borg missions were fine, a bit of a challenge, but not too much of a challenge. Once you'd done the mission a few times on normal and got some better gear they were certainly doable.

    Now I'm having trouble completing those missions even with my best geared toon that already has several extra specialisation points and fully upgraded MACO gear. Add to that the fail optional = fail entire mission feature plus very strict timers and they're just not fun playing anymore. Compensating for a newer/ less well geared team mate is no longer possible for me and most of my fleet mates who are also more than capable players.

    So yeah, fully agree. Ground advanced STF's should be the same as the old Elite ground STF's. For those who still think those were too easy they could create a new elite difficulty.
    Edit: Or at least reconsider the timers. Although we have access to several extra abilities and upgraded gear, the enemies HP and shields on ground are still much more buffed than before and thus you simply need more time than before.
  • nickodaemusnickodaemus Member Posts: 711 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    +1

    Saved me the trouble of composing my own.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Leave the bloody refinement cap alone. The last time they talked about Dilithium (LoR) the average player didn't even reach half the refinement cap. All increasing the cap would do is benefit the hardcore players grinding dilithium, and make it harder for casual players to keep up.

    Especially since all the dilithium prices are based off the cap. You want lower prices, not a higher cap.
  • ralphgraphiteralphgraphite Member Posts: 628 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    2: End game borg gear. Well, you can get the upgrade items in the box you get for handing in marks. You dont need a large number of them to buy the equipment. No it isn't automatic, but it is not impossible.

    OP has a lot of valid points, and I agree that you have some as well. That said - I disagree with this point specifically.

    I've levelled up 1 character through the Omega rep completely, and 2 others well on their way. I didn't run the "old" Elite queues until I had completely levelled up to T5. A good chunk of the levelling was done after the loot boxes were added to the rep daily and hourly.

    I had - no lie - zero BNPs dropped out of those rep boxes on my main. This is from running all the way to T5, using a good number of hourlies in addition to the dailies. Of the 40-some BNPs my main has, at least 40 were from the pre-DR "Elite" queues, and only a few after. On my two alts that are currently levelling up, I have gotten a total of 3. To get 9 BNPs to complete one set of gear, and on a single toon, at this rate, would take years. Let alone if you tried to shoot for a space set and a ground set, or worse yet, several sets.

    To be fair, I seem to have gotten a better drop rate on Ancient Power Cells from the rep boxes.

    I agree that the new end game content is harder, and in some ways, that can be a good thing. If they would add BNPs and VR mats to the "Normal" queues I'd be a happy camper. If that's not on the table, I'd say I'm unfortunately onside with the OP. I'm not even a "new" player anymore, but I play with new people all the time, and we can't complete Advanced if we pug (there are only 2-3 of us). Just "teaming" up doesn't work, outside of going to channels, and to be fair, we don't WANT to be carried through a mission. Pugs don't allow teamwork - they only seem to go the DPS route.

    With teamwork, even the new advanced can be completed easily without the optional. But that requires finding 4 likeminded players that don't mind killing 15-20 minutes to do it the hard way. If you don't know enough people, you're in trouble.
  • jtneatjtneat Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Ummm.... yups i agree.
    Those stfs of 20 players queuing are dead. Never used to be on the fed, at the very least you would be able to get 1 match out of it before you had to do something in the real world.
    Rommy 20player has always been dead, never been able to play that, not once ever!

    Agree on dil limits but not to your 10k level, which is what made me cancel my membership. There shouldn't be any limits on dil for paying customers or LTS.

    (There is no argument or whining here, just feedback.)
  • roejspinodjiroejspinodji Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Yeah, many good thoughts in the original posts, I do agree to some.

    However space STF - sorry buddy, the "advanced" hitpoints are just ok, as they are. Why? Well, currently they can be compared with the old elite. Lets take Infected space for example.
    In the past we used to run thru a ISE in less than 2 min. Good premade team of some fleet members. All know what they are doing.
    Currently we go thru new ISA in approx. same tame.

    In the past, when I pugged into a ISE, sometimes I got to play with some randoms, which had no idea how this missions works and more or less I had to do the dmg myself. I had plenty of games, where I did more dmg, than the other 4 ppl together. That sucked. I always asked, "hey guys, why dont you start with IS standard before queueing into elite". In 90 % of the cases I got the answer "stfu you stupid noob". Very funny... You are doing 35-40K dps and those guys, who dont know hot to play the mission call you a noob. I am sick of that.

    Now... if your team sucks... you fail the optinal. Pretty fast. And of course failing the optional means failing the mission itself. Lovely.
    All those stupid craptalker now see themselves f*cking up the mission and the stupid bigmouth talking stops. God, I love the new ISA (could be made even slightly harder).

    The new ISA, stops or prevents dopeheads to play advanced mode and pushes them back to normal difficulty. Perfect. Ok, I admit, still some of them still dont learn it and still queue themselves into advanced, but not as many as before.

    Naturally, the perfect solution would be, that you unlock "advanced" difficulty after completing Infected Space Normal difficulty around 20 times, that would be even better. But... hey... cannot have everything.

    I like it, as it is right now and hope we will get a Infected Space Elite soon.
  • stuartlarkinstuartlarkin Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Although I do agree with a lot of the content by the OP I disagree with the conclusions.

    1: I have been playing STO since the earliest of days and I for one am delighted. Delighted because the game is hard again. I remember when the first wave of revamped borg missions appeared as the first STFs. It was great. I had something to do, and it was hard. For the first time in ages once again the game is hard.

    Thing is, it is going to get easier over time. I don't know about everyone else, but for the first time in years I log in and wonder which piece of equipment I am going to upgrade after a session of play. It is amazing to have new objectives.

    I couldn't disagree more with complaints of this kind. What is the point of advanced and elite missions if everyone can complete them within a few weeks of the update?

    2: End game borg gear. Well, you can get the upgrade items in the box you get for handing in marks. You dont need a large number of them to buy the equipment. No it isn't automatic, but it is not impossible. A few weeks from now these players who need two year old equipment will be able to join PuGs of super-equipped players that blast through it just as before. Alternatively they can still be 'carried' by fleet members who can.

    Finally on this point. You really can't do ISE? It is a lot harder than before but I still havent seen it failed yet and I have a lot of toons with old style mk 12 gear. Are you really finding groups totally failing it regularly?



    I will take your points and I'd like to respond to them if I may and your personal experience may be different to mine, I can only base conclusions on what I have experienced so far.


    1. You are correct it has become hard again, but it is clearly to much of a step up for most players as the PVE figures have dropped right off, Conduit Elite under the old system would have at any time of day between 40/75 people playing at any one time, Conduit Advanced right now, 25 the only PVE which has been having traffic figures reminiscent of the old system is Mirror Event Normal 70/150 people playing, compare that to Mirror advanced which will only usually have 5/15 people playing at any one time

    It has become beyond the reach of many players who are either new or play for fun and don't hunt the very best of everything (my partner who played regularly has pretty much given up.) The possibility of auto fails are putting off a lot of the rest, who could tackle the challenge the new system presents. I personally have a low frustration tolerance and I don't want to be spending time annoyed at some random player simply because they didn't know all the questions in Undine Infiltration for example and the often very negative reaction people get when they cause an auto fail I'm sure is putting more off.

    At the same time as a new player or a more casual one, I wouldn't want to feel I am not achieving anything, as you say in a few weeks super equipped players may just carry all these guys through missions... but do you want to feel like you have been carried? every time you lock weapons your target explodes before you can fire a shot as a super equipped player breezes through? I don't, I'm proposing Advanced is reduced simple to an intermediate level something where new players can get the confidence and experience to get the equipment they need or have the extras to experiment without being harassed for loosing a auto fail objective while Elite can be the preserve of the super equipped destroying all before them. My fleet used to run training missions to get the new guys the experience so they could run on their own, if they are just carrying them, how does that benefit anyone?

    Upgrading gear does give something to aim for and I do like seeing what new shiney object I can make, but the PVE to use them in has become a chore, something I have to do for new materials and Dil where I only target ones I know I have a reasonable chance of and I hope against hope no one in the team fails the compulsory objectives and wastes 20 minutes of my time and that to me just feels like the wrong motivation. I used to play Conduit or on the odd occasion you could find 20 people Mine Trap because they were fun not because it was something I felt I had to do to progress


    2. You are correct you can get upgrade items in the reward box for turning in marks, but that is hardly a practical method since it is firstly based on random chance and secondly as you point out the large amount you have to buy. Now you will have to forgive me using the Delta Reputation as an example its the freshest in my mind and I don't have time to level a whole new toon to see if the maths is the same with the Omega rep system, but I have reached Tier IV and am half way to V. I have earned a grand total of 4 ancient Power Cells via random reward box and I count myself extremely luck to of got that many. Seeing that individual items cost between 3-5 Cells that really isn't going to equip a toon. Compromise moves like awarding Neural Processors for the Hard missions on Defra would equal this out with the other reputation systems, but then it would also take more people away from PVE which would rather defeat the point

    My Personal Experience of ISE Advanced, has been less than positive. Only completing successfully when in a team including two guys from my fleet pulling 20K DPS each, who are able to kill the generators almost as soon as the Nanite Probes spawn. The few occasions I have joined completely public games have been a such a disaster as to put me off even trying again. As I said at the start this has been my experience yours may of been different
  • stuartlarkinstuartlarkin Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Indeed. The title is very misleading. I expected profanity, misuse of grammar and lots of crazy conspiracy theories about Cryptic.

    I have never been so proud to be proven wrong by another forumite.

    :)

    This is feedback. I encourage the devs to give it a look over.

    I'll re-think my choice of title for the next time :)
  • stuartlarkinstuartlarkin Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    jtneat wrote: »

    Agree on dil limits but not to your 10k level, which is what made me cancel my membership. There shouldn't be any limits on dil for paying customers or LTS.

    (There is no argument or whining here, just feedback.)

    Kinda agree with what your saying here, but the 10k figure was based on being a realist at heart. As they do exchange Zen for Dil and not limit would have a huge impact on that and the way the in game economy works with that in mind, my 10K would preserve the status quo of that while giving everyone a bit extra to play with for upgrades etc

    (Also no argument, just explaining my rational to your well made point.) :)
  • crusader2007crusader2007 Member Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I've been playing for the last 2 years, I've enjoyed it so much I got the life time subscription and have deeply enjoyed being able to continue the Star Trek experience through this game.

    But since Delta Rising, this game has caused me nothing but endless frustration, aggravation and disappointment. I'm not alone in this and it needs to be addressed as at this point the game is all but unplayable and is certainly not fun.

    I'm posting this mainly to vent, I have no real expectation the Dev's will read it or even be interested in my point of view if they do, but still I'd like to put down what I feel is wrong and see if anyone agrees

    the big one PVE, at the moment, PVE is all but unachievable unless you show up with a team of high level players and know the mission inside and out, the play figures have dropped through the floor, the focus on much of the feed back has been on space, but a lot of the ground PVE's have suffered aswell and that is generally overlooked. (Mine Trap was huge fun, but looking for a random team of 20 forget it now.)

    lets look at the main complaint Space Hit points. I run a number of ships and in any Borg Red Alert I can take out all of the separate encounter points solo including if required the unimatirx. However I go into a Borg Advanced PVE such as conduit, I can barely damage a sphere. This is not balance, this is locking off the top level game from new players and forcing existing players into an endless cycle of grind just to become competitive.

    I already know what many will say... "learn how to play, learn how to build your ship!" I know how to do both my point is new players, the guys who keep this game alive don't and they won't take the time to learn when there is no way to progress. Although Rep Gear is still accessible via battlezones which grant Cybernetic Implants or Isomorphic Injectors, the Borg Reputation Equipment is currently locked off from new players completely, the only place to acquire Borg Neural Processors is in Advanced Borg PVE missions and unless you already have the best equipment and a team of guys you know to help, you have no hope of completing those missions. This NEED's to be addressed as Borg Rep gear is the go to for most starting players or was until now.

    I appreciate the Devs have put a lot of time into the new PVE system, but its time to admit, its not working, the play figures have dropped to about 1/4 of where they used to be and are not recovering after "2 passes" as they put it of altering the hit points. Its simply to frustrating and too much effort. Challenge for end game content is one thing, frustrating compulsory objectives and auto failures with a 10 mark 'you lose' prize are quite another.
    No one wants to admit they are wrong, but if this game is going to survive that's whats needed and the old PVE system reinstated until the new one can be ironed out, properly play tested and introduced. If I may suggest and normal level aimed at players to upto level 45, an intermediate level achievable routinely at level 45-59 and a Elite for level 60 for some real challenge. And when I say challenge I do not me playable with lvl XIV epic gear and a fleet of freinds with the same. Another solution would be to make nueral processors and the like available at all levels of play so people can effectively play at the level they are capable and not be penalized for not having progressed far enough in the game. Either way I would suggest whatever level, optional Objectives are reinstated and failure causes a loss to the base reward for the mission, rather than success a bonus. Auto fails help no one just cause frustration and rage and anger amongst players, this is meant to be a social game after all.

    Why should the Dev's care I hear you ask, well this is hitting them in their pocket, when I was a free to play member I spent a LOT of money on new ships, bits of equipment, outfits to look cool, so I could have more fun randomly STF'ing but now I avoid space PVE completely and only do a very few ground. Its not fun and those free to player's who are dropping £20 on a new ship every now and then aren't going to be if they can't win in the first place.

    (Oh and on a personal note, borg Ground STF's were hard enough before the changes loose all the extra elite Tac drones the are not needed even with a team who knows the missions you were looking at a 50/50 completion rate on those missions and usually without optional's... Much lower on Hive so please just set them back the way they were, they were plenty challenging and fun, now I've played once and never want to again.)

    Moving on from the PVE complaints I'd like to highlight the new Delta Contents rewards. PVE, Patrols and Battle/adventure zones they are amazingly small, 5 marks per area captured on kobali Prime, 10 for a patrol Mission this is small, especially regarding the effort involved in both and comparing it to the rewards earned in the Dyson Ground zone and Undine Space, with no daily missions and only a bonus of 2 marks for causing an area to Escalate bringing the total to 14 for a fully completed escalation on Kobali Prime it is tiny reward. I've ground most of my Delta Marks from the Mirror event, this lack of reward really needs to be addressed as apart from Bug Hunt once I finished the Delta Content on my main toon, I've had no urge to go near it again.

    Finally The Dilithum Cap needs to be re-examined, I well understand the need for it, but it was based by the Dev's admission on the average a player could make daily 2 years ago. 8K a day plus fleet and Gold Member projects bringing it up to 9K per day (average) if you have access to both. but 2 factors are now unbalancing it significantly 1) You can routinely make a lot more than 8K a day once you hit level 50 and 2) there are far more things that demand Dilitum than there use to be. The only main needs for it before Delta was the Rep Gear, Fleet Gear/ships and the Dil store. Now the Updated R&D system and the Upgrade system have put 2 new huge demands on the average players Dil requirements and with a limit of 8K a day there is only so much you can do no matter how much you have hoarded (around 100K between 2 toons in my case) I would propose a modest increase to the base Dil cap of 2000 a day bringing the base total to 10,000 a day, its a nice round number and should help off set a lot of the strain caused by the new system, but in turn not hurt the Dev's profits for people looking to buy Dil in bulk, 2K a day is not enough they still won't want to pay Zen for 100K a time.

    These are my thoughts, I kind of hope some positive action is taken beacuse at this point given the way the PVE numbers have dropped off and the general anger being expressed every time something posted on the STO Facebook page as well as the fact new player progression is now significantly limited, this game probably won't be here in 6 months and I'll be back to playing Skyrim

    You are a liitle TARDY...most quit on 10/23 with the biggest NERFING patch ever on the history of STO. Good luck!
    DUwNP.gif

  • adabisiadabisi Member Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I don't have the time or the patience to counter each aspect of this persons argument as it would create a wall of content most would not read ....


    I will be brief and to the point


    First of all your point of view is narrow. I have been here since beta. I went lifer before the game launched. Your 2 years is only a glimpse into the life of this game IMO>

    We used to have things like terradome, Invasion DS9 where you waited for NPC's to flip coins, whole STF"s that could take hours.


    When the STf's were launched we dived straight in anjd it took us 3 weeks of daily play to muscle our first win......we then hoped for a piece of UBER gear that could randomly drop. I remember doing CURE Elite for probably 3 months after launch before I got my first good drop.....NOW all you do is grind the easy stuff for the end gear. there are other options we , as earlier players, did not have. free sets of space gear for the taking (Breen) that can be easily upgraded to mk 14 that do very well against BORG. I should know I have them at 14.

    Your complaint that you cannot hurt a sphere in advanced is truly a tragedy indeed. in a science vessel I can down a sphere on my own. Not fast but easily. I would recommend you discuss this in forums to help your builds.....


    Borg Red alerts are not end content.....I seem to remember that lowbies can be in red alerts too....they have to balance that for equality although end level players will always be more powerful...You truly feel that because you down a CUBE on red alert that you should own the playing field in Advanced stf?

    AGAIN there is optional gear that is often overlooked that can beat borg gear...breen space gear can easily be made mk 14 without ever doing an STF on advanced......ALSO Fleet gear....many fleets can get you gear that allows you to circumvent the need for borg gear. Again your absolutism is flawed...there are many ways around gearing up.


    The old PVE stf system was weak and outdated...as the power of the players increased with cap increases and better gear the oldest STF's were too easy.....it was mandatory that they raise the skill needed to master them.....sadly for folks like you it seems like a big increase when in reality it is not.....the new stfs require nothing more then the older ones...maybe a few more minutes of PEW PEW. HINT lots of dps or, with lack thereof, GW and Tractors.



    Lets move on to Delta quadrant rewards.....Doing a mission that require 5 minutes of pew pew that rewards you with marks that you can turn in daily is not enough for you? I can muster , easily, 100 marks in an hour or 1.5 hours.....you need 30 for the daily and 20 for the hourly......IT IS PLENTY to keep in line with doing your dailies and not bogging you down in one area of the game. With the extra 50 marks left over I can turn them in for dilitihum....win/win for me


    The Dilithium cap is the oldest and weakest of the complaints....you have 2 toons you should EASILY be reaping in 16k...3 toons my word the number keeps growing and growing. For those who do not have a lot of time to invest 2 toons maxing out daily is a sweet number for dilitihum....and you get to see who the other half lives (a diff class). If ya run a KDF member lots of contraband also helps.


    Younger players, while having valid concerns, do not see the whole picture. This game has evolved into a complex game. When it first launched it was much tougher then it is now. It NOW panders to the lowest denominator and the causal player to the point that many lifers, like myself, are left flabbergasted. It is too easy and too boring. With Delta they have reinvigorated the game to a small extent and made stf's a challenge again.


    I, for one, am very glad they have done what they have done this newest expansion.
    Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    "Finally The Dilithum Cap needs to be re-examined, I well understand the need for it, but it was based by the Dev's admission on the average a player could make daily 2 years ago. 8K a day plus fleet and Gold Member projects bringing it up to 9K per day (average) if you have access to both. but 2 factors are now unbalancing it significantly 1) You can routinely make a lot more than 8K a day once you hit level 50 and 2) there are far more things that demand Dilitum than there use to be. The only main needs for it before Delta was the Rep Gear, Fleet Gear/ships and the Dil store. Now the Updated R&D system and the Upgrade system have put 2 new huge demands on the average players Dil requirements and with a limit of 8K a day there is only so much you can do no matter how much you have hoarded (around 100K between 2 toons in my case) I would propose a modest increase to the base Dil cap of 2000 a day bringing the base total to 10,000 a day, its a nice round number and should help off set a lot of the strain caused by the new system, but in turn not hurt the Dev's profits for people looking to buy Dil in bulk, 2K a day is not enough they still won't want to pay Zen for 100K a time. "

    Dil cap is fine as is... unless they make dil and zen character bound... ie you farm dil on toon a and put it on the exchange... any zen earned is restricted to toon a... or you decide to cancel sale and try and pull the dil off the exchange on toon b... no can do.

    dil cap for free accounts is 24k a day, assuming your running 3 toons farming dil. 32k a day if you sub'd for a month and have 4 toons on an account.

    Note I do not farm dil... i am lucky to get 3k a day on a character on regular play... course with DR I have not played and am burning thru my stock of contraband handing those in and doing the colonists for 500 dil every 2 days.
  • doublechadoublecha Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Good post, stuartlarkin
    Qapla'
  • therealmttherealmt Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Although I do agree with a lot of the content by the OP I disagree with the conclusions.

    1: I have been playing STO since the earliest of days and I for one am delighted. Delighted because the game is hard again. I remember when the first wave of revamped borg missions appeared as the first STFs. It was great. I had something to do, and it was hard. For the first time in ages once again the game is hard.

    Thing is, it is going to get easier over time. I don't know about everyone else, but for the first time in years I log in and wonder which piece of equipment I am going to upgrade after a session of play. It is amazing to have new objectives.

    I couldn't disagree more with complaints of this kind. What is the point of advanced and elite missions if everyone can complete them within a few weeks of the update?

    2: End game borg gear. Well, you can get the upgrade items in the box you get for handing in marks. You dont need a large number of them to buy the equipment. No it isn't automatic, but it is not impossible. A few weeks from now these players who need two year old equipment will be able to join PuGs of super-equipped players that blast through it just as before. Alternatively they can still be 'carried' by fleet members who can.

    Finally on this point. You really can't do ISE? It is a lot harder than before but I still havent seen it failed yet and I have a lot of toons with old style mk 12 gear. Are you really finding groups totally failing it regularly?


    lol how misled can you possibly be.

    Harder...

    Since the existence of this game Cryptic has done nothing but TRIBBLE around with Hitpoints, damage numbers, resistance , and all that TRIBBLE, from one extreme to the other.

    Thats usually NOT the way to change the 'difficulty' on a game unless it was designed by a bunch of amateurs.

    Perhaps they should consider actually implementing an intelligent AI, at least that way this whole game wouldnt be as unbalanced as it is right now, both PVE and PVP alike, by constantly having to adjust items and weapons and devices where both the player and NPC have access to. Because yes, most stats are directly linked to both AI and Player, worst decision ever.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    therealmt wrote: »
    lol how misled can you possibly be.

    Harder...

    Since the existence of this game Cryptic has done nothing but TRIBBLE around with Hitpoints, damage numbers, resistance , and all that TRIBBLE, from one extreme to the other.

    Thats usually NOT the way to change the 'difficulty' on a game unless it was designed by a bunch of amateurs.

    Perhaps they should consider actually implementing an intelligent AI, at least that way this whole game wouldnt be as unbalanced as it is right now, both PVE and PVP alike, by constantly having to adjust items and weapons and devices where both the player and NPC have access to. Because yes, most stats are directly linked to both AI and Player, worst decision ever.

    I feel sorry for any Cryptic dev that happened upon this, because if I was one I would rage on your parade. So much fail and/or troll here not even funny.

    In regards to the OP comment "But since Delta Rising, this game has caused me nothing but endless frustration, aggravation and disappointment. I'm not alone in this and it needs to be addressed as at this point the game is all but unplayable and is certainly not fun."

    This is, once again, a complaint so overboard you have lost all credibility with me.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited November 2014
    Too the OP

    This is Caption Jellico of the USS Cairo

    Were here to back you up

    Take the lead Caption
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • the1tiggletthe1tigglet Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I absolutely agree with you on all fronts especially on the borg items needed for gear. That should not have happened. I can go and do the bug thing right now and get the items I need for the newest without having to worry about being cutoff and I'm a lifer. I can only imagine what it's like for new players. All of these extra items in these STFs need to be taken out entirely because these rep systems are not 100% equal. I can get simple marks to get all Rom gear, it's absolutely the most ridiculous thing to cut off players from gear at any time in any mmo.

    This is another example of how some of us feel that the management team of this game has no clue what they are doing at this point.

    I would also like to point out that at no time has catering to the 1% the so called "hardcore" crowd ever been beneficial to any mmo out today in fact, we've seen serious drops every time there's been an event in which the devs cater to the hardcore crowd there's been a serious drop in profits. Carbine, Arenanet, Bioware, Trion, Turbine have all recently learned that trying to cater to these players who make these demands to make everything harder eventually leads to losing players en masse and then losing money big time because of the loss of casuals because believe it or not, casuals generally spend more money on items in the shops where the hard-core crowd would basically want to do it the hard way and have the time to do it the hard way or rush through the game as fast as possible.

    It's basic math, you start messing with the people who feed you and you're going to see lower profits. Take a page from the Ferengi book of wisdom and don't harm the casual playerbase. If these people want to go play another scifi based game out there that's hard core let that 1% whine and leave because it's better to lose that 1% than it is to lose the 99% who are more likely to spend money.
  • tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited November 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    This was actually a pretty well-thought out post. While I do see some flaws in your arguments, on the whole what you present are actually pretty valid criticisms. I agree with most of what you say.

    If this is you venting, you're able to do so in a coherent and respectful fashion. More posters in the STO forums could learn from your example.

    And yes, the right eyes at Cryptic should read from this and make meaningful actions in response to your feedback and other feedback like it.

    I agree, I wish people used more respectful and coherent arguments more often. I try my best to though I usually fall foul of either sharing a thread with people with no patience to read what people say or they are so full of themselves they won't listen to anything sensible regardless. Not to mention the endless number of folks who think they can test but can't...

    I generally agree with everything the OP is saying, so great post.
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Maybe there is hope for the forums yet
    GwaoHAD.png
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I agree with many of the comments in the thread, from the OP and beyond.

    I have to say, the argument over “harder” is valid. The game *is* harder due to the increase in enemy hit points, etc. but this is an unimaginative and, dare I say it, lazy way to add increased difficulty into the game. Alternatively, it is also the easiest, so we’re really caught in a catch-22 there.

    Advanced Difficulty STFS…. They need to have the failed optionals removed. Or, at the least, most of them. It’s fine for elite and, if they want to make Advanced harder than normal, great, but don’t have an auto-fail. Or if you do, fix pugging, as ludicrous as that sounds. Essentially, STFs are broken now as far as pugging is concerned. If you don’t have a trusted team or fleet, don’t even try to get through an STF as there will be someone there to ruin it for you out of spite. How does one fix this? Great question… the first step would to have Cryptic start taking the issue seriously for starters, but that’s an entirely different subject for another thread.

    Regardless of any new content that has been pushed out, the game has become stagnant, as is the fate of all F2Ps. It has a loyal fan base due to the Star Trek franchise and tries to have some semblance of freshness but fails. I don’t hate the game. I enjoy playing the game. I don’t love the game nor does it excite me. Personally I think it was the kiss of death when it moved to F2P over sub, but that’s just me.

    In short, nothing that is blaringly wrong with the game now will be fixed under Cryptic’s wing. I have doubts anyone who take sit on as F2P will be able to make the changes necessary to breathe life back into it, to be honest. In the end the players will still play, the payers will still pay and the griefers will still grief. Such is life.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will forever be missed and never forgotten.
  • voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Obviously not a perfect post... rarely among the forums does such exist... but this is a damn good one. Some men just want to watch the forums burn, some men just want to see good posts smothered. But to the OP, I say this.

    You have my approval.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • olliereportolliereport Member Posts: 721
    edited November 2014
    I'm up to 500k unrefined dil, normal play, just from not having alts

    a modest daily refine bump would be warranted, say to 10k?

    but, raising that one thing (daily refine cap) would cut into their bottom line more than anything. given that they just discounted lifetime memberships again, I wouldn't get your hopes up
  • kaiserwillykaiserwilly Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    therealmt wrote: »
    lol how misled can you possibly be.

    Harder...

    Since the existence of this game Cryptic has done nothing but TRIBBLE around with Hitpoints, damage numbers, resistance , and all that TRIBBLE, from one extreme to the other.

    Thats usually NOT the way to change the 'difficulty' on a game unless it was designed by a bunch of amateurs.

    Perhaps they should consider actually implementing an intelligent AI, at least that way this whole game wouldnt be as unbalanced as it is right now, both PVE and PVP alike, by constantly having to adjust items and weapons and devices where both the player and NPC have access to. Because yes, most stats are directly linked to both AI and Player, worst decision ever.

    Well I guess we will just have to disagree. Maybe the real difference between us is that I don't feel the need to insult someone when I happen to hold a different view.

    I happen to believe the HP increase has made a marked change in the way the end-game is played. Having one hign performing Tac on a team blasting out a cone of death is no longer enough to complete an STF. The fact that this can be achieved simply by adding firepower and Hp to the enemies all the better.

    Better AI? Well yes, of course, the holy grail of computer games. I would ask though, as we seem to be mostly talking about space combat here. What would a better AI do in ISE? In the featuresless wilderness of space there are very limited AI options; most of which are variations of - close to optimum range and use your abilities in an optimum sequence. That seems to be what players do. Can we criticise an AI for behaving in the same way?
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