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Zen bought through steam, has lead to me losing my steam account

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  • drdeath61drdeath61 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    thegcbacon wrote: »
    Who is they? If you mean PW then I understand why you're hiding behind a new account.

    Not "hiding" anywhere, as a steam user this is the first thing that pissed me off enough to post anything here. This guy isn't the only one being flagged using steam and sorry I only read 4 paged of replies before I posted, now shove it up your TRIBBLE!
  • thegcbaconthegcbacon Member Posts: 434 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    drdeath61 wrote: »
    Not "hiding" anywhere, as a steam user this is the first thing that pissed me off enough to post anything here. This guy isn't the only one being flagged using steam and sorry I only read 4 paged of replies before I posted, now shove it up your TRIBBLE!

    So Steam locking accounts made you mad enough to post on a different companies forums? Maybe you should be on the Steam forums, but w/your anger issues they probably will ignore you anyways.
  • blitzsthblitzsth Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    thegcbacon wrote: »
    1) There is no proof there was no fraud nor is there proof there was fraud. We do not have the information to decide this.

    You are kind of right, it is only my word that I say I am innocent and yes I could leave some information out. If I could put all the detail in here ie, the receipt information and the information to contact the creditcard company I would, but that information is as you know sensitive and anyone could use it. So I can't produce everything to show you guys my innocence
    thegcbacon wrote: »
    2) read post #46. His STO Account wasn't even banned @the time he posted this thread. PWE had already investigated their side of this issue. Steam seems to be not interested in investigating it further.

    Well I never said my STO was banned when I posted this thread, I said it was banned over the weekend. Also PWE hadn't investigated anything when I first posted this thread, they only investigated further after they probably saw how much traction this thread was gaining and possibly how much of a PR nightmare this was turning out for them.

    This was the reason I took to the forums. I didn't want to wait another week for another generic reply all the while I was still in the dark of who was the true cause of my Steam account being banned or locked.

    I have accepted PWE response in this thread and I now have to wait for Steam to get off their butt and deal with my issue in a proper professional way!
  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    And TRIBBLE like this is why I never used the Steam wallet feature. Less hassle to use Paypal (even though I despise them for reasons other than business) and the PWE/Arc website to buy Zen.
  • heckgoblinheckgoblin Member Posts: 685
    edited November 2014
    thegcbacon wrote: »
    So Steam locking accounts made you mad enough to post on a different companies forums? Maybe you should be on the Steam forums, but w/your anger issues they probably will ignore you anyways.

    Shut up you *******.
    I AM WAR.
  • thegcbaconthegcbacon Member Posts: 434 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    heckgoblin wrote: »
    Shut up you *******.

    You 2 related?
  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Aaaannnnnddd....another (rare) informative, and interesting, thread bites the dust. :rolleyes:
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I think Steam is the one withholding information. Did they ever specifically say on mm/dd/yy at xx:xx am/pm a transaction was made that they deemed fraudulent? Or are they being tight lipped and refusing to look at your evidence?
    Based on what he's posted.... I suspect the latter. It sounds like the guys at Steam aren't actually investigating. His steam account has some flag on it that tells them something, and they don't know/care enough to verify whether it should be there.
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  • uryenserellonturyenserellont Member Posts: 858 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Last game I bought on Steam was Age Of Empires II HD on sale, and even then I wasn't thrilled about the transaction. It worked out fine but as a rule I try to buy from them as little as possible.

    It does seem suspicious that this is happening at the same time PWE is implementing anti-fraud measures. Not saying the two are related but it's a strange coincidence if they're not.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Last game I bought on Steam was Age Of Empires II HD on sale, and even then I wasn't thrilled about the transaction. It worked out fine but as a rule I try to buy from them as little as possible.

    It does seem suspicious that this is happening at the same time PWE is implementing anti-fraud measures. Not saying the two are related but it's a strange coincidence if they're not.
    I wonder about the chicken and egg thing here... which came first? I'm wondering if this TRIBBLE with Steam is what prompted PWE to do something.
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  • hfmuddhfmudd Member Posts: 881 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Steam customer service is a joke. Actually, no, it's a punchline. The joke is that Valve is, famously, a (mostly) "flat" company - people work on what they want to. "Surprisingly", no one wants to do customer support!
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  • tekehdtekehd Member Posts: 2,032 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Based on what he's posted.... I suspect the latter. It sounds like the guys at Steam aren't actually investigating. His steam account has some flag on it that tells them something, and they don't know/care enough to verify whether it should be there.

    Yep, which is SOP for Steam, it's happened before and no doubt it will happen again.
  • tekehdtekehd Member Posts: 2,032 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    hfmudd wrote: »
    Steam customer service is a joke. Actually, no, it's a punchline. The joke is that Valve is, famously, a (mostly) "flat" company - people work on what they want to. "Surprisingly", no one wants to do customer support!

    Steam Customer support = Out of Office email auto-replies. It's very cheap to manage... you don't even need to hire CS supervisors.
  • savnokasavnoka Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Based on what he's posted.... I suspect the latter. It sounds like the guys at Steam aren't actually investigating. His steam account has some flag on it that tells them something, and they don't know/care enough to verify whether it should be there.


    From what little I know from a friend working at Valve, they've been very heavily burned by pre-paid credit cards, and prefer people to use the 'Steam Wallet' cards.

    It's very likely some clown is looking at the ticket, seeing a pre-paid card, and just kicking off the rote response.

    I would demand arbitration. You have that right. Send an email to their legal department....if you are absolutely sure you haven't done anything wrong.
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  • usasocrangerusasocranger Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I used to work Technical and General Customer Support for Microsoft's Xbox 360 program and would have been pulled off the phone, kicked in the face, bashed onto the pavement, and immediately terminated (of life or job is up for debate) if I responded to customer problems in the manner the OP is being treated. I have a similar Steam library and, honestly, I would be crushed if I was suddenly banhammered because I tried to buy something.

    I really feel for you OP and hope this gets resolved in your favor. The only advice I can give you as someone from the other side of the screen is to continue hammering away at them. Keep making tickets; keep sending messages; blow up their discussion forums; hell make a Reddit topic.
  • blitzsthblitzsth Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I used to work Technical and General Customer Support for Microsoft's Xbox 360 program and would have been pulled off the phone, kicked in the face, bashed onto the pavement, and immediately terminated (of life or job is up for debate) if I responded to customer problems in the manner the OP is being treated. I have a similar Steam library and, honestly, I would be crushed if I was suddenly banhammered because I tried to buy something.

    I really feel for you OP and hope this gets resolved in your favor. The only advice I can give you as someone from the other side of the screen is to continue hammering away at them. Keep making tickets; keep sending messages; blow up their discussion forums; hell make a Reddit topic.

    Well I would keep making new tickets, but I saw on the Steam discussion forms. That some guy was banned from sending in too many new tickets. So I will keep to the original ticket and hope that it will be passed to someone that will deal with it. I will start a reddit thread on it, thanks for the advice and I have thought about sending this issue to Totalbiscuit and hope he picks it up.

    Also I did find a Steam/Valve phone number online LoL good luck to anyone that will get a response past that, it has the scientist voice from halflife on it,. Soooo you can imagine how serious Valve thinks about that service.
  • lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited November 2014
    Let me first say that I am sad to see that this happened to you.

    But, Steam bans have nothing to do with PWE bans. PWE has no influence on when Steam decides to ban a Steam account. We don't ask them to do so and our bans or policies in no way transfer information like that to Steam.

    So, it seems that Steam saw something in the account history that caused them to respond like that. I think the only recourse is to continue contacting Steam to get them to lift the ban.

    There is a new probation period: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1286371, but it has nothing to do with a ban.

    With that, try to work out what happened with Steam. If for some reason they say you were flagged by PWE, then attempt to get PWE to pardon you via Steam. If it is 100% not PWE related, I hope you get things settled with Steam. If it is PWE who flagged you, and they would not pardon you, and you didn't truly do anything wrong, lord help us.
    What do I think what happened? Credit/debit card payment bounced.
  • uryenserellonturyenserellont Member Posts: 858 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    blitzsth wrote: »
    Well I would keep making new tickets, but I saw on the Steam discussion forms. That some guy was banned from sending in too many new tickets. So I will keep to the original ticket and hope that it will be passed to someone that will deal with it. I will start a reddit thread on it, thanks for the advice and I have thought about sending this issue to Totalbiscuit and hope he picks it up.

    Also I did find a Steam/Valve phone number online LoL good luck to anyone that will get a response past that, it has the scientist voice from halflife on it,. Soooo you can imagine how serious Valve thinks about that service.

    No do not sit back and hope your ticket gets escalated. You have to be proactive or nothing will get done. Make noise, in a respectful way.

    Do you have any rights with your prepaid card company? I'm not sure how they work but it would help if you were able to contact that company about this. It's not good for their business either if transactions made with their cards are being flagged as fraudulent.
  • forcemajeureforcemajeure Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    blitzsth wrote: »
    I have sent all the receipt data to Steam, where I bought the cards ie store address contact name and phone number. I never thought of asking for the ticket to be handled by a more senior member but I shall, thanks for the advice.

    I will send the same to PWE and wait for the brush off generic response :)

    In general, credit card companies will go to bat for members who are being abused by merchants.

    While the above is good advice, I would also strongly suggest making a nuisance of yourself at American Express and working up the chain there... they can put a lot more pressure on a merchant than you can.
  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    No do not sit back and hope your ticket gets escalated. You have to be proactive or nothing will get done. Make noise, in a respectful way.

    Do you have any rights with your prepaid card company? I'm not sure how they work but it would help if you were able to contact that company about this. It's not good for their business either if transactions made with their cards are being flagged as fraudulent.

    I agree, keep up the pressure. And hope that Steam and PWE don't play the blame game with each other.
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  • jockey1979jockey1979 Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Well, as some people are to darn lazy to even have a quick look for any gold posts here, I'll do you all the service of quoting what was posted by PWE on this topic, as I'm sick of ignorant posts because no one can be bothered to do a bit of reading :mad:
    Let me first say that I am sad to see that this happened to you.

    But, Steam bans have nothing to do with PWE bans. PWE has no influence on when Steam decides to ban a Steam account. We don't ask them to do so and our bans or policies in no way transfer information like that to Steam.

    So, it seems that Steam saw something in the account history that caused them to respond like that. I think the only recourse is to continue contacting Steam to get them to lift the ban.

    There is a new probation period: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1286371, but it has nothing to do with a ban.
    ^^ From Page 4
    I just took some time and researched this as well as talked to our customer service and billing departments.

    We did not pass information of this kind over to Steam in this case. In fact, it was the other way around. Steam appears to have seen some sort of trigger that indicated potential fraudulent activity and banned your account. They then passed that information to our system that caused a temporary ban of your PWE account. Our CS team reviewed that ban and your PWE ban was actually manually removed by us on 11/3...so good news on that front.

    What this means though is that Steam support is, in fact, your only recourse. Unfortunately, we do not have any influence or contact with anyone that can remove Steam account bans. So, you're going to need to work with Steam support.

    Hopefully they can take a deeper look and fix the issue for you. I wish you luck for a quick resolution!
    ^^ From page 5

    And yes, the OP did see and respond to this.

    Now, you're up to speed on "the blame game" :P
  • blitzsthblitzsth Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Well I put up a post on Steam's forum and let me just say, you guys have been great here, because over there I just got pretty much told by the community that Steam is correct and I am a fraud, even though I said I have proof of purchase and proof from the creditcard company. Nope they choose to believe in the "Almighty steam" which can do no wrong, apparently.
  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    blitzsth wrote: »
    Well I put up a post on Steam's forum and let me just say, you guys have been great here, because over there I just got pretty much told by the community that Steam is correct and I am a fraud, even though I said I have proof of purchase and proof from the creditcard company. Nope they choose to believe in the "Almighty steam" which can do no wrong, apparently.

    We're great?

    What an odd set of events led us to be "great"? ;)
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  • xaramanxaraman Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Hi Smirk and Adamanteus,

    Kudos to you guys for checking up on this. But, to be devils advocate here could I ask some questions?

    1) Cryptic and Steam obviously have some sort of data feed(s) running between the 2 systems to prevent things like fraud, anti-bans etc?

    2) Did you tell Steam that you were implementing a new authentication system that could place certain new flags on your data feed or even have you checked that the new system is or is not sending flags over your datafeed in relation to things like the "bound to account" probation period?

    3) If your new system is placing flags on the datafeed, could it possible that it was this that made Steam contact you about the account?

    It just seems unusual that this would happen to this guy right after he got this "bound to account" probation warning. It may be a complete co-incidence. But it would be in your best interests to make sure this isn't going to happen in the future.

    Cheers!
  • chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    This is why I use paypal on steam, I don't even bother with a linked card, I pull traight out of my bank acount, no hassle that way. Cards can get finicky and that's why I don't use mine except at an ATM.
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  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    In general, credit card companies will go to bat for members who are being abused by merchants.

    While the above is good advice, I would also strongly suggest making a nuisance of yourself at American Express and working up the chain there... they can put a lot more pressure on a merchant than you can.
    Unfortunately how far will that extend for a prepaid card user? That isn't the same thing as a full active credit account and I highly doubt that AE is going to go too far.
    I find it hard to believe that Steam has no form of telephone support, but in any case you need to escalate this to a different level, whether it's in legal or appeals or whatever they are referring to it, since the lot you've been dealing with are a dead end. They should have some process for escalating an issue and you'll have to research how to go about that.
    But above all remember, keep your cool, don't get upset or use any form of language that they can use as an excuse to shut down further discussion.
    If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
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  • xraiderv1xraiderv1 Member Posts: 479 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I use PWE prepaid giftcards and can verify those do build a purchase history.
    Murphy's laws:
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  • rsoblivionrsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    blitzsth wrote: »
    Well I put up a post on Steam's forum and let me just say, you guys have been great here, because over there I just got pretty much told by the community that Steam is correct and I am a fraud, even though I said I have proof of purchase and proof from the creditcard company. Nope they choose to believe in the "Almighty steam" which can do no wrong, apparently.

    Unfortunately with the amount of people on Steam the ratio of deluded white knights exponentially increases. You see a few around here, but usually when they get hit a bit by logic they bog off or rant for a while before bogging off.

    With steam though it's a tricky business dealing with them. Because they've alleged fraud, it's actually up to them to provide evidence of such fraud, from a legal standpoint that is. This is because as always the onus is on the claimant not the defendant to provide evidence to backup their claim.

    Due to the value of the service you have been denied access to (whether physical or digital), you are well within your rights to start legal action against them for recourse on the matter. I wouldn't recommend legal action though as it usually has the problem of delays and inattention by lawyers who will skim both parties raw.

    The better method would be to reach out to the gaming press like Kotaku, Totalbiscuit, PC Gamer, IGN, Rock Paper Shotgun, etc...
    They can voice an opinion, and force an answer where a lawsuit would just cause a lot of cost for everyone involved. If you can use the statements from PWE/Cryptic in your communications then that would give you even more traction for your defense from Steam's accusation. Also make no mistake it's an accusation.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,404 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    blitzsth wrote: »
    Well I put up a post on Steam's forum and let me just say, you guys have been great here, because over there I just got pretty much told by the community that Steam is correct and I am a fraud, even though I said I have proof of purchase and proof from the creditcard company. Nope they choose to believe in the "Almighty steam" which can do no wrong, apparently.

    Well, keep in mind, STEAM/Valve is usually respected/liked; Cryptic/PWE, not so much. :P

    My guess is, that... wait for it... there probably *was* some fraud involved. Maybe some Russian maffia has TRIBBLE this-or-that prepaid online card seller, and has already used your card (in the eyes of Valve making *you* the fraudulent party, after using it too).

    My advice? Above all, stay calm. Show them your proof of purchase, making you the legal owner of the card.

    Sadly, these ToS-es are always written so they reserve the right to do whatever they want, for whatever reason (you Americans have given your companies way too much power). So it may really have to come to legal action (they can't brush off a Judge like that, of course). Try and get to speak to a human first, though. I'm sure a lot could be cleared up, if only you spoke to someone in person.

    If not, you could always consult a lawyer first, just to gauge your chances. That's probably what I would do, should direct communication fail.
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  • blitzsthblitzsth Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    rsoblivion wrote: »
    Unfortunately with the amount of people on Steam the ratio of deluded white knights exponentially increases. You see a few around here, but usually when they get hit a bit by logic they bog off or rant for a while before bogging off.

    With steam though it's a tricky business dealing with them. Because they've alleged fraud, it's actually up to them to provide evidence of such fraud, from a legal standpoint that is. This is because as always the onus is on the claimant not the defendant to provide evidence to backup their claim.

    Due to the value of the service you have been denied access to (whether physical or digital), you are well within your rights to start legal action against them for recourse on the matter. I wouldn't recommend legal action though as it usually has the problem of delays and inattention by lawyers who will skim both parties raw.

    The better method would be to reach out to the gaming press like Kotaku, Totalbiscuit, PC Gamer, IGN, Rock Paper Shotgun, etc...
    They can voice an opinion, and force an answer where a lawsuit would just cause a lot of cost for everyone involved. If you can use the statements from PWE/Cryptic in your communications then that would give you even more traction for your defense from Steam's accusation. Also make no mistake it's an accusation.

    Well according to some people in the Steam community I have been given nothing but bad advice from other websites that have given fuel to my Anti-Steam rants. I also just checked the thread, for you guys to look at and see if anything that I wrote was Anti-steam, but it has been locked. You guys can still read it, but unfortunately you ca't reply

    Here is the link.

    http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/620696522125568055/

    You can be honest with me on your opinions on my comments over there.

    Also I want to hope that someone gets back to me at Steam before I contact Kotaku, Totalbiscuit, PC Gamer, IGN, Rock Paper Shotgun. It seems to me getting them involved will be all guns blazing and that's if any of them decide to run with it and believe it or not, I want to give Steam their due and fix it before it gets to that stage.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Well, keep in mind, STEAM/Valve is usually respected/liked; Cryptic/PWE, not so much. :P

    My guess is, that... wait for it... there probably *was* some fraud involved. Maybe some Russian maffia has TRIBBLE this-or-that prepaid online card seller, and has already used your card (in the eyes of Valve making *you* the fraudulent party, after using it too).

    My advice? Above all, stay calm. Show them your proof of purchase, making you the legal owner of the card.

    Sadly, these ToS-es are always written so they reserve the right to do whatever they want, for whatever reason (you Americans have given your companies way too much power). So it may really have to come to legal action (they can't brush off a Judge like that, of course). Try and get to speak to a human first, though. I'm sure a lot could be cleared up, if only you spoke to someone in person.

    If not, you could always consult a lawyer first, just to gauge your chances. That's probably what I would do, should direct communication fail.

    One of the first thing I asked the American express people was if anyone else had tried to make a purchase with the card and they said no, Steam was the only one. Steam took the money and then refunded the money back onto the cards, the cards have still got their full amount on them, atm.

    Oh and BTW I'm from the UK, so fighting an American company from the UK on a legal stand point will take a monster amount of resources and cost. It would be cheaper to buy every game on my Steam account 100x over, beside even if it went to court. If it got to the point where steam was going to lose they could just wiggle their way out before a verdict could be cast and that way I would not be able to have them over legal costs. More likely they would bury me in legal paper work and I wouldn't be able to afford to fight the case.
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