Tanking in STO is in no way shape or form similar to fantasy based MMO's. I had def warriors in wow that need healers to accomplish goals, in STO my cruiser is both.
To be an agro-magnet survivalist you need to max threat skill, run at least 1 +threat romulan console, and most importantly hit everything around you HARD. It don't need to be 30k hard, but you won't hold agro doing 3k dps.
I don't think the holy trinity of old MMo's exist in this game. My cruiser can CC with GW1, aoe spam with faw3, and burst hull healing in excess of 25k with 2 clicks. I have seen bugs tank like pro's and cruisers pop like balloons. Practice dictates how well you play.
It can be fun, but I would not cry foul if a well flown BoP is mopping floors and dodging death because that is their form of fun.
This becomes a pure DPS and Kyte race, heal your self or die ground game.
Isn't one of the themes in most to all the ST shows and movies has almost always shown different characters with different specialize skills being effectively used to benefit the group? So why is this game so much of a DPS race?
First, this game's fairly weak as far as the trinity goes, especially in space. To a certain extent, everyone can heal/defend themselves, so a dedicated healer isn't necessary.
Second, the best defense is a good offence. Your opponents can't hit you if they're busy exploding. If the devs don't work really hard at maintaining balance, it becomes a DPS race. The other MMo I'm into is DC Universe Online. The standard raid group 2 years ago was 2 tanks, 2 healers, 2 controllers, and 2 DPS. Now, it's 5 DPS, 2 controllers (there's synergy in having 2) and 1 healer. And the healer and controllers are in hybrid gear to boost their DPS.
Also, while STO's a DPS game, you can still have different roles. While the escort pew-pew is most common, there are other ways to contribute. (The last wave of Starbase Alert's fun with a couple of sci ships dropping grav wells and tykens rifts giving you clusters of warp cores to pop, with no shields. Then you have the Cruiser AtoB disco balls of doom flying around.
One of the things I like about STO is there isn't one single best build. There are lots of viable builds that do different things.
Tanks exist unless you are one of those very special players who rolls with friends who max out DPS.
You can certainly play this game by turning your ship into a 50K DPS killbeast and murdering everything. That isn't an option for all of us. In teamplay, specialist builds that take the heat off DPSers can be helpful.
One of my alts is a fleet Ambassador tanker. STFs seem to go well with her because she can hold aggro on half the map, so the squishy DPS Scimitards are never going pop or wasting time on cooldown.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
I am only concerned about ground threat management. I know space threat management and the ability to tank works decently in space. I even have a Catian Engy in a Tholian Recluse with threat Reduction consoles that still draws aggro. NPCs simple like cats and cat people.
I am pretty sure they are leaning towards a Trinity system anyways, no matter how many people say they don't want it. They keep increasing the content related to threat control systems. The release of the Talaxian race as playable has a healer theme to them.
Loyalty
+5% Incoming Heals to Self and Team
+5% Skillpoints and Expertise to Self and Team
Betazoid have threat Reduction and Increase Team Regeneration.
Trills and Joined Trills have Hyper Metabolism
Bajorans have bonus to Healiong Shields and Hitpoints, 10% bonus to healing abilities and a bonus to regen.
Orians have -9.1% threat gen
They seem to have always had the idea of "ALLOWING" a Trinity or Quantity system to work. After all, they did release Threat modifying consoles in LoNR. And the space threat control works well enough where you can pull it off reasonably well. You already have it where 3 Tanks draw aggro in Borg Disconnected, while someone else or 2 fly around rescuing the cooperative ships that are being drawn to the reassimlation tower.
But now with that said, everyone who kicked and screamed "NO TRINITY SYSTEM" has a major problem right there in the very existence of the Borg Disconnected Queue. If you don't have 3 tanks managing threat while someone or 2 others fly around rescuing co-operative ships, you will lose in Advanced and Elite.
I dont understand thoes who lead this project are they stupid or maby they looking for new job cos nerfing this game meke -imposible for normal players lead directly to finish project called STO
You removed all fun from this game -now people looking for other game without permanent lag and bugs (Defera)and without permanent changes rules every few months just game with makes fun so thanks for playing Startrek Online Mr .project leader- wake up before others like me abandon STO
But now with that said, everyone who kicked and screamed "NO TRINITY SYSTEM" has a major problem right there in the very existence of the Borg Disconnected Queue. If you don't have 3 tanks managing threat while someone or 2 others fly around rescuing co-operative ships, you will lose in Advanced and Elite.
That can also be done by a single carrier, the pets draw aggro, the carrier rescues. It can also be done by a DPS+X- 2player team, one to draw aggro and eventually kill the borg, one to simply free the borg. Actually the carrier is destined for middle, as you then only need one there and two two-player-teams for the sides.
So no need for a hyperspecialized tank here. It works just as fine with other 'tactics'/specialisations. They can be used there, but you dont get much more out of them. Dont try to hard to look for trinity were it isnt "fixed" in place (e.g. needed).
That can also be done by a single carrier, the pets draw aggro, the carrier rescues. It can also be done by a DPS+X- 2player team, one to draw aggro and eventually kill the borg, one to simply free the borg. Actually the carrier is destined for middle, as you then only need one there and two two-player-teams for the sides.
So no need for a hyperspecialized tank here. It works just as fine with other 'tactics'/specialisations. They can be used there, but you dont get much more out of them. Dont try to hard to look for trinity were it isnt "fixed" in place (e.g. needed).
... ... ...
I see...
Your reply isn't about talking about the aggro management system at all, nor is it about the actual fight in an STF.
Anyone who has played these STFs, especially in advance mode and elite, knows what type of gear and strategy has to be used.
It is common place for MMOs to allow their Devs and Forum Mods free accounts to the game they are hired to maintain and develop. I can count on the fact that the forum moderators know how to fight in STFs.
So I know they will see through your blatant lie and so will any community member who has actually played in STFs post-DR. There wouldn't be any other purpose to telling such an obvious lie except for the sole purpose to aggravate.
Do not reply again or I will report you for being off topic and trolling. This is your only warning.
nope.
its a reason for players to stop looking for antiquated trinity rpg mechanics that should never have been copied from single player rpg to mmo in the first place.
Being creative and finding different ways to fight in those missions is how most people come to their methods of play. So when most people are coming to just a pure DPS button smashing skill spam on every CD just to dish out a style of every one for them selves style play, where you really are not doing much thinking at all, just shooting and hoping your group is powerful enough to win, kind of takes away elements of fun and skillful game play.
And to tell people to "stop looking for antiquated mechanics" kind sounds like you are telling people how too play.
I have played this game for years. So what if I wish the mechanics allowed for different styles. I am not the only person who wishes this was more then a pure DPS race.
Referencing the trinity system cause of knowing it works is just a starting point that is known to work. And I have not seen the devs of STO innovate anything better. So far it just seems like a DPS race with a lot of skill perks to choose from, on the ground.
Your reply isn't about talking about the aggro management system at all, nor is it about the actual fight in an STF.
Anyone who has played these STFs, especially in advance mode and elite, knows what type of gear and strategy has to be used.
It is common place for MMOs to allow their Devs and Forum Mods free accounts to the game they are hired to maintain and develop. I can count on the fact that the forum moderators know how to fight in STFs.
So I know they will see through your blatant lie and so will any community member who has actually played in STFs post-DR. There wouldn't be any other purpose to telling such an obvious lie except for the sole purpose to aggravate.
Do not reply again or I will report you for being off topic and trolling. This is your only warning.
Well, it was your example, which was incorrect. Sure, you can let a tank there to draw aggro. But the same applies to a dps-ship (which also uses the threatmanagement implemented), or a carrier, which uses pets to draw aggro while not engaging in a fight themselves. Both tactics were used with great success by the dps channels. Maybe you are just not as good a player as you think you are.
As for ground, the rules for tanking are simple, albeit the threat mangement system is not as good implemented there as in space:
1. tank is a sci. it can also be played by a engineer, but that would be even more wasted damage-potential then a sci fully skilled for tanking.
2. be the first one at the enemies.
3. use high damage (spike) attacks before everyone else (see 2.) like exothermic induction field. Also use AoE-Weapons.
4. tank
There are however 3 problems for tanking:
1. Enemy AoE Attacks cannot be tanked (you live through them, but it hits everyone in the team, e.g. circumventing the tank)
2. There are no 360° AoE longrange attacks for oneself. So enemies on your sides (and not in range for sonic pulse) and back cannot be attacked. The only hope to get their attention is either being fast with switching targets or heal aggro. It really exists.
3. You dont want a good or at least decent team. Because then everything dies to fast, so you dont need a tank or healer. Only exception might be HSE, but especially here self-sufficient dps and debuffer are worth far more than full-healers (every debuffer/dps-sci can take 1-2 heals with them, while only 1-2 sci are useful here, rest engineers and tacticians. 1S,2E,2T gets the best results.) Tanking here is impossible, as AoE rules the enemies attack (so robust dpsers are worth more, as AoE simply circumvents the tank).
Being creative and finding different ways to fight in those missions is how most people come to their methods of play. So when most people are coming to just a pure DPS button smashing skill spam on every CD just to dish out a style of every one for them selves style play, where you really are not doing much thinking at all, just shooting and hoping your group is powerful enough to win, kind of takes away elements of fun and skillful game play.
And to tell people to "stop looking for antiquated mechanics" kind sounds like you are telling people how too play.
I have played this game for years. So what if I wish the mechanics allowed for different styles. I am not the only person who wishes this was more then a pure DPS race.
Referencing the trinity system cause of knowing it works is just a starting point that is known to work.
You might find what you are looking for in the Star Trek Battle channel . But you want everyone to bow their will to your likes. The game offers the freedom for all, ppl who want trinity, who want canon, who want RP and of course who want DPS. The build groups and play together. I would advice you to simply join one of them and play how you like instead of trying to bring the archaic system of trinity in this game, which already offers it, but doesnt require it.
But you want everyone to bow their will to your likes. The game offers the freedom for all, ppl who want trinity, who want canon, who want RP and of course who want DPS. The build groups and play together. I would advice you to simply join one of them and play how you like instead of trying to bring the archaic system of trinity in this game, which already offers it, but doesnt require it.
P.S.: And yes, I like to aggrevate religious ppl.
Except it doesn't offer 'freedom for all', because it doesn't cater to what the poster likes which is freedom to play as a team. I am not saying it has to, I am point out that you are incorrect.
Being a DPS focused escort is an advantage over a science officer, let alone an engineer. So do we need DPS nerfed, no as that causes what you saw on the forums. People who are not tactical DPS and number savy were crippled.
We need the other two sets of abilities buffed, on a general easy to use level. That or everyone needs access to the bonuses of every class, if they are forced to play a certain way to remain competitive.
It looks to me like the OP knows exactly what he or she is talking about and is merely suggesting that other play styles have more of a chance to be effective.
At what point in time was the demand made to make it exclusively a trinity system?
I don't see a point in which that was done. All I see is the OP passionately advocating for mechanics that will allow other styles to be able work. There is no mention of requiring the use of a trinity only system.
Except it doesn't offer 'freedom for all', because it doesn't cater to what the poster likes which is freedom to play as a team. I am not saying it has to, I am point out that you are incorrect.
Being a DPS focused escort is an advantage over a science officer, let alone an engineer. So do we need DPS nerfed, no as that causes what you saw on the forums. People who are not tactical DPS and number savy were crippled.
We need the other two sets of abilities buffed, on a general easy to use level. That or everyone needs access to the bonuses of every class, if they are forced to play a certain way to remain competitive.
It's that simple.
While buffing all is ok, you can already play as a team. Like I stated join together with likeminded ppl, make a channel/group and form premade-teams and you can do what you like. This game offers you the possibility, you just have to use it.
I have been on like minded teams and premades myself and they agree, all we are doing is just attack and pushing buttons. We may be able to do what we want, but in the end all we do is just run in, keep laying out fire like crazy with almost no real need for skill or thinking about anything and we win.
Occasionally, we might need to have a kill order like in space cured, where we go left to right, killing the cubes 1 at a time, and having someone with enough powerful DPS to take out the ads from the station that we have not gotten to yet.
The need for 3 tanks in disconnected is right for the harder versions. Only the normal mode one can you reasonably get away with the 1 carrier or 2 man DPS idea. I know cause I am friends with people who can belt out 50k DPS and 1 shot people in PvP. We have premade runs on STFs. We know you can't pull that carrier/2 man DPS on the harder STFs.
Here, have a video that can directly show the trouble with ground aggro/threat management, and how difficult doing anything outside of DPS skill spamming and self healing can be.
Regardless of the newbish first time run of the person who recorded it, even an experienced player who is well geared would have trouble doing anything other then DPS and self heal. Most of the key points for the mission and how to handle it are pretty much laid out in the mission record. The issue of firing at the fliers first is like only 1 thing that you could want to find out about. And the last part, is how it seems to break down in Bug Hunt quite often, where people say, "TRIBBLE it, just kill the spawn mother."
Comments
To be an agro-magnet survivalist you need to max threat skill, run at least 1 +threat romulan console, and most importantly hit everything around you HARD. It don't need to be 30k hard, but you won't hold agro doing 3k dps.
I don't think the holy trinity of old MMo's exist in this game. My cruiser can CC with GW1, aoe spam with faw3, and burst hull healing in excess of 25k with 2 clicks. I have seen bugs tank like pro's and cruisers pop like balloons. Practice dictates how well you play.
It can be fun, but I would not cry foul if a well flown BoP is mopping floors and dodging death because that is their form of fun.
Brody
First, this game's fairly weak as far as the trinity goes, especially in space. To a certain extent, everyone can heal/defend themselves, so a dedicated healer isn't necessary.
Second, the best defense is a good offence. Your opponents can't hit you if they're busy exploding. If the devs don't work really hard at maintaining balance, it becomes a DPS race. The other MMo I'm into is DC Universe Online. The standard raid group 2 years ago was 2 tanks, 2 healers, 2 controllers, and 2 DPS. Now, it's 5 DPS, 2 controllers (there's synergy in having 2) and 1 healer. And the healer and controllers are in hybrid gear to boost their DPS.
Also, while STO's a DPS game, you can still have different roles. While the escort pew-pew is most common, there are other ways to contribute. (The last wave of Starbase Alert's fun with a couple of sci ships dropping grav wells and tykens rifts giving you clusters of warp cores to pop, with no shields. Then you have the Cruiser AtoB disco balls of doom flying around.
One of the things I like about STO is there isn't one single best build. There are lots of viable builds that do different things.
You can certainly play this game by turning your ship into a 50K DPS killbeast and murdering everything. That isn't an option for all of us. In teamplay, specialist builds that take the heat off DPSers can be helpful.
One of my alts is a fleet Ambassador tanker. STFs seem to go well with her because she can hold aggro on half the map, so the squishy DPS Scimitards are never going pop or wasting time on cooldown.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
I am pretty sure they are leaning towards a Trinity system anyways, no matter how many people say they don't want it. They keep increasing the content related to threat control systems. The release of the Talaxian race as playable has a healer theme to them.
Loyalty
+5% Incoming Heals to Self and Team
+5% Skillpoints and Expertise to Self and Team
Betazoid have threat Reduction and Increase Team Regeneration.
Trills and Joined Trills have Hyper Metabolism
Bajorans have bonus to Healiong Shields and Hitpoints, 10% bonus to healing abilities and a bonus to regen.
Orians have -9.1% threat gen
They seem to have always had the idea of "ALLOWING" a Trinity or Quantity system to work. After all, they did release Threat modifying consoles in LoNR. And the space threat control works well enough where you can pull it off reasonably well. You already have it where 3 Tanks draw aggro in Borg Disconnected, while someone else or 2 fly around rescuing the cooperative ships that are being drawn to the reassimlation tower.
But now with that said, everyone who kicked and screamed "NO TRINITY SYSTEM" has a major problem right there in the very existence of the Borg Disconnected Queue. If you don't have 3 tanks managing threat while someone or 2 others fly around rescuing co-operative ships, you will lose in Advanced and Elite.
You removed all fun from this game -now people looking for other game without permanent lag and bugs (Defera)and without permanent changes rules every few months just game with makes fun so thanks for playing Startrek Online Mr .project leader- wake up before others like me abandon STO
And yet enemies will usually target you and not your klingon (with +threat) bridge officer.
Sadly, another reason why they seriously need to rework ground aggro management.
That can also be done by a single carrier, the pets draw aggro, the carrier rescues. It can also be done by a DPS+X- 2player team, one to draw aggro and eventually kill the borg, one to simply free the borg. Actually the carrier is destined for middle, as you then only need one there and two two-player-teams for the sides.
So no need for a hyperspecialized tank here. It works just as fine with other 'tactics'/specialisations. They can be used there, but you dont get much more out of them. Dont try to hard to look for trinity were it isnt "fixed" in place (e.g. needed).
... ... ...
I see...
Your reply isn't about talking about the aggro management system at all, nor is it about the actual fight in an STF.
Anyone who has played these STFs, especially in advance mode and elite, knows what type of gear and strategy has to be used.
It is common place for MMOs to allow their Devs and Forum Mods free accounts to the game they are hired to maintain and develop. I can count on the fact that the forum moderators know how to fight in STFs.
So I know they will see through your blatant lie and so will any community member who has actually played in STFs post-DR. There wouldn't be any other purpose to telling such an obvious lie except for the sole purpose to aggravate.
Do not reply again or I will report you for being off topic and trolling. This is your only warning.
Being creative and finding different ways to fight in those missions is how most people come to their methods of play. So when most people are coming to just a pure DPS button smashing skill spam on every CD just to dish out a style of every one for them selves style play, where you really are not doing much thinking at all, just shooting and hoping your group is powerful enough to win, kind of takes away elements of fun and skillful game play.
And to tell people to "stop looking for antiquated mechanics" kind sounds like you are telling people how too play.
I have played this game for years. So what if I wish the mechanics allowed for different styles. I am not the only person who wishes this was more then a pure DPS race.
Referencing the trinity system cause of knowing it works is just a starting point that is known to work. And I have not seen the devs of STO innovate anything better. So far it just seems like a DPS race with a lot of skill perks to choose from, on the ground.
Well, it was your example, which was incorrect. Sure, you can let a tank there to draw aggro. But the same applies to a dps-ship (which also uses the threatmanagement implemented), or a carrier, which uses pets to draw aggro while not engaging in a fight themselves. Both tactics were used with great success by the dps channels. Maybe you are just not as good a player as you think you are.
As for ground, the rules for tanking are simple, albeit the threat mangement system is not as good implemented there as in space:
1. tank is a sci. it can also be played by a engineer, but that would be even more wasted damage-potential then a sci fully skilled for tanking.
2. be the first one at the enemies.
3. use high damage (spike) attacks before everyone else (see 2.) like exothermic induction field. Also use AoE-Weapons.
4. tank
There are however 3 problems for tanking:
1. Enemy AoE Attacks cannot be tanked (you live through them, but it hits everyone in the team, e.g. circumventing the tank)
2. There are no 360° AoE longrange attacks for oneself. So enemies on your sides (and not in range for sonic pulse) and back cannot be attacked. The only hope to get their attention is either being fast with switching targets or heal aggro. It really exists.
3. You dont want a good or at least decent team. Because then everything dies to fast, so you dont need a tank or healer. Only exception might be HSE, but especially here self-sufficient dps and debuffer are worth far more than full-healers (every debuffer/dps-sci can take 1-2 heals with them, while only 1-2 sci are useful here, rest engineers and tacticians. 1S,2E,2T gets the best results.) Tanking here is impossible, as AoE rules the enemies attack (so robust dpsers are worth more, as AoE simply circumvents the tank).
You might find what you are looking for in the Star Trek Battle channel
. But you want everyone to bow their will to your likes. The game offers the freedom for all, ppl who want trinity, who want canon, who want RP and of course who want DPS. The build groups and play together. I would advice you to simply join one of them and play how you like instead of trying to bring the archaic system of trinity in this game, which already offers it, but doesnt require it.
P.S.: And yes, I like to aggrevate religious ppl.
Except it doesn't offer 'freedom for all', because it doesn't cater to what the poster likes which is freedom to play as a team. I am not saying it has to, I am point out that you are incorrect.
Being a DPS focused escort is an advantage over a science officer, let alone an engineer. So do we need DPS nerfed, no as that causes what you saw on the forums. People who are not tactical DPS and number savy were crippled.
We need the other two sets of abilities buffed, on a general easy to use level. That or everyone needs access to the bonuses of every class, if they are forced to play a certain way to remain competitive.
It's that simple.
At what point in time was the demand made to make it exclusively a trinity system?
I don't see a point in which that was done. All I see is the OP passionately advocating for mechanics that will allow other styles to be able work. There is no mention of requiring the use of a trinity only system.
While buffing all is ok, you can already play as a team. Like I stated join together with likeminded ppl, make a channel/group and form premade-teams and you can do what you like. This game offers you the possibility, you just have to use it.
Occasionally, we might need to have a kill order like in space cured, where we go left to right, killing the cubes 1 at a time, and having someone with enough powerful DPS to take out the ads from the station that we have not gotten to yet.
The need for 3 tanks in disconnected is right for the harder versions. Only the normal mode one can you reasonably get away with the 1 carrier or 2 man DPS idea. I know cause I am friends with people who can belt out 50k DPS and 1 shot people in PvP. We have premade runs on STFs. We know you can't pull that carrier/2 man DPS on the harder STFs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IybkgELef7Y
Regardless of the newbish first time run of the person who recorded it, even an experienced player who is well geared would have trouble doing anything other then DPS and self heal. Most of the key points for the mission and how to handle it are pretty much laid out in the mission record. The issue of firing at the fliers first is like only 1 thing that you could want to find out about. And the last part, is how it seems to break down in Bug Hunt quite often, where people say, "TRIBBLE it, just kill the spawn mother."