Mission: Alliances and the Holographic Bulwark

tiriusavaro · October 2014

Just a quick question for those that have done this mission. I had a lot of difficulty overcoming the holographic Voth Bulwark in this, much more than the ordinary DR enemies. Has anyone else experienced this? It took me around half an hour on Advanced...

Some stats: flying a Fleet Star Cruiser with a full tetryon build, mostly fleet Mk12 fleet-level items; the build is hardly amazing, but it functions well enough. Despite the tetryons, I still failed to bring down the Bulwark's shields (not even to half strength!) during the entire fight, and in the end I think it died just from bleedthrough damage.

I'll try and run the numbers next time, but I'd like to know if I'm alone in this.

markhawkman · October 2014

that's pretty normal for Bulwarks actually... they have some stupidly hard to drop shields. One option is to use one of the Suliban doffs that makes enemy shields squishy when you use Beam Overload. It won't help drop a facing, but it'll make the bleedthrough kill faster.

toiva · October 2014

I was also surprised by this Bulwark. I tend to play Missions on normal (because even advanced gives me great trouble on ground) where typically any space foe is but a fly to be squashed, however against this hologram, I had to 'pay attention' to the fight.

I wonder if there's a 'fail' option where the player doesn't manage to take the Bulwark down, as there is in the other species encounters in this episode.

Unknown · October 2014

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toiva · October 2014

skollulfr wrote: »

tiriusavaro wrote: »

Star Cruiser

i see your problem. you took a fail boat into dr.
why would you take a 2 tac consoled 2 tac power anything into dr?
let alone a cruiser? thats pretty masochistic of you. like you want the hard content to be impossibly time consuming.

so, you take a fail ship, then add self imposed difficulty of a weak damage type.

you did this to yourself, on purpose.

if a ship has less than 2 tac consoles, its a failure
if a ship has less than 2 tac abilities, its a failure
if a ship has less than 8 turn, its a failure
if a ship has less then 30 inertia, its a failure

this is a combat game, stop being elitist about the reality of a combat games requirements.

Hmm, are you upset? Perhaps because of the Tau Dewa patrol lockout?

His Fleet star cruiser may not be optimal for damage dealing (far from it), but despite the high hulls and resists, Delta Rising missions are still doable with it. With a little skill, even easily on elite.

tiriusavaro · October 2014

toiva wrote: »

His Fleet star cruiser may not be optimal for damage dealing (far from it), but despite the high hulls and resists, Delta Rising missions are still doable with it. With a little skill, even easily on elite.

Thanks for this. I don't wish to derail the thread into a "which ship is best" discussion, but I am aware that my ship isn't that good (as specified in the first post), which is why I only use it for solo content. I'm used to fights taking longer on this ship, but not this long.

This was just the first time I ran into any real trouble, and having now progressed to level 57, the Bulwark still feels "off" compared to the rest of the content.

toiva · October 2014

tiriusavaro wrote: »

This was just the first time I ran into any real trouble, and having now progressed to level 57, the Bulwark still feels "off" compared to the rest of the content.

I entirely agree. It was close to the elite level of difficulty, in fact. Wonder what the Bulwark is like on actual elite setting, though. If the same, then it's a bug. If harder still, it was meant by the devs as a challenge specific to the mission: "Show how much the Alpha quadrant is really capable of".

Unknown · October 2014

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dodxmolitor · October 2014

toiva wrote: »

I entirely agree. It was close to the elite level of difficulty, in fact. Wonder what the Bulwark is like on actual elite setting, though. If the same, then it's a bug. If harder still, it was meant by the devs as a challenge specific to the mission: "Show how much the Alpha quadrant is really capable of".

Impossible.... Difficult, very time consuming... Frustrating... i tried for an hour taking down its shields on elite. i get to about 22% and die... When i come back, its at 100% again...

Unknown · October 2014

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markhawkman · October 2014

Watch out for that annoying reflecting shield facing skill the Voth like to use. that's the thing most likely to kill you. When they have it up you need to change your angle of attack since otherwise you'll damage yourself more than the Voth.

toiva · October 2014

skollulfr wrote: »

didnt go near the tau patrols. since heiwe ruins or whatever its called gets me rom marks more easily, and i have plenty of doffs for exp.

my latest gimmick boat into dr is a CSV risian liner, which is parsing dr missions at a meagre 3.8 to 4.3 k dps because im being silly.

its not a matter of skill, its simple maths.
if a fleet starlooser is putting out 3k dps, assuming non a2b, and someone else goes in with an FAC doing 9k dps, more with a2b, who is going to have an easier time burning mobs hp away

your elitist redherring doesnt change that.

spend 200k creds for the mirror assault cruiser, get the 3rd tac slot, keep the looks.

what you have hit, is a straight played dps wall. the npc's are rocking out panzer 8's and you are still bringing a 6 pounder gun to the playground.

the enemy armour and hp antiquate your current platform through sheer weight of maths.

You're saying a mirror assault cruiser will perform much better because of 1 tac ensign? The Fleet one has better shields, hull and 2 more shield consoles.
Seriously you can do pretty much the same damage in the star cruiser as you can in the assault, and both will be way higher than 3k DPS.

dodxmolitor wrote: »

Impossible.... Difficult, very time consuming... Frustrating... i tried for an hour taking down its shields on elite. i get to about 22% and die... When i come back, its at 100% again...

leadme2kirk wrote: »

I tried at least 5 times using different tactics on a KDF Orion Engineer. Lowest I can get is 30% hp and it's constant instakills. After the third respawn it goes back to 100%.

I might try again.

Sounds like fun then.

futurepastnow · October 2014

Hmm, I was only playing on normal (rather relax and take in the story), but I didn't have any trouble with it. In fact it went down to 25% hull towards the end, which I assume was scripted into the mission. Bulwarks aren't that tough, just don't shoot at their immune facing.

coolheadal · October 2014

I had just completed this mission a few minutes ago under my FED SCI Admiral on Risan Luxury Cruiser. What a joy to learn this was up for hit. Voth goes down easy with the right weapons banks and loaded torpedoes of choice back at the dyson sphere with voth and this one was no different.

Next up ROM and KDF Tac versions. Should be interesting.

Unknown · October 2014

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adverbero · October 2014

I had to back out of this mission on Elite, this holographic ship being the only enemy so far which has caused me to abandon the mission and change difficulty

Defeating it on advanced for me consisted of wearing it down bit by bit, escaping using rock and roll and various other immunities and insta-heal magic

And until I was able to get fleet support in the form of my own Holographic Battleship it just would not Die

toiva · October 2014

skollulfr wrote: »

shield consoles dont kill targets.
a dribble of extra shield and hull doesnt kill targets.
an extra tac console and ability do kill targets.
mixing bo/abB or apD and still having a TT is a decent force multiplier even if not high level.

the damage output even without boffs is in favour of the mirror ship, thanks to that extra tac console. something that will only be greater if specced to squeeze the maximum potential dps from them. any good combination of boff abilities will only do better due to having more force to multiply.

that makes you demonstrably wrong regardless of your equivocation.
quite simply, you are arguing against maths. and the best you have been able to do is 3+3 is "pretty much the same" as 2+2.

You just won't let go, will you?

A) those sci consoles could be embassy ones.

shield consoles help you survive -> surviving makes you deal more damage.

- Assuming someone's having a hard time with combat, it's better for him to be able keeping pressure on the enemy than respawn and in some cases let the enemy heal back to 100%.
- Assuming someone's experienced enough to not have trouble with space combat, he'll do just fine in ANY Tier 5 or higher ship.

Of course the assault cruiser has a slight damage dealing advantage over the star cruiser (even the Fleet one). However ditching a Fleet star cruiser that has many defensive advantages over the dil and mirror cruisers is mostly stupid, and not only in light of its capability to be upgraded to Fleet Tier 5-U.

Unknown · October 2014

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tiriusavaro · October 2014

^^^
Guys, as the OP, I intended this thread to talk about a specific mission goal, not opinions on what constitutes a good ship build. Plz?

On the whole it seems the majority opinion on the Bulwark is "more difficult but not overly so". Thx to everyone for responding.

mavfin · October 2014

Yeah, just ignore that guy. He's just another min-maxer that thinks that his way of playing is THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY anyone should be allowed to play the game. As I said, just ignore people like that. Don't let them annoy you and mess up your playing experience. People like him love to suck all the fun out of it for people who like to play the game any other way than the mathematical 'best' way.

Sure, DPS is the easy, no-challenge road in this game, but, it's not the only road.

markhawkman · October 2014

mavfin wrote: »

Yeah, just ignore that guy. He's just another min-maxer that thinks that his way of playing is THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY anyone should be allowed to play the game. As I said, just ignore people like that. Don't let them annoy you and mess up your playing experience. People like him love to suck all the fun out of it for people who like to play the game any other way than the mathematical 'best' way.

Sure, DPS is the easy, no-challenge road in this game, but, it's not the only road.

Truthfully, I think that's why the devs coded that reflection gimmick. If you time an alpha poorly, the only one to get hurt is yourself.

But builds that don't rely on alphas don't care as much.

woodwhity · October 2014

markhawkman wrote: »

Truthfully, I think that's why the devs coded that reflection gimmick. If you time an alpha poorly, the only one to get hurt is yourself.

But builds that don't rely on alphas don't care as much.

They coded it, because its an easy way to drag the fight for longer, e.g. to keep player occupied.

toiva · October 2014

skollulfr wrote: »

this has had no trouble surviving on elite.
a throw together lol boat.
surviving dr is not an issue, killing the npc's in a not boring amount of time is. not to mention, if the target is killed in half the time, the amount of damage it can do to you is halved.

this character has a much easier time of it in delta, directly because its ship is better at killing and moving. its pretty much the same as teh first characters assault carrier.

those piddly defensive advantages done make a shared of difference to the overall viability of a failboat. and yes, failboat is any ship in a compat game with such gimped combat ability that almost any other ship could do its job better.

Ok, my last comment in this thread (its questions have been answered anyway).

Your 'throw together lol boat' is probably made of much more expensive stuff than all my builds and combines plenty more other advantages.

You apparently have absolutely no clue what the typical ship of a casual player looks like.

misterchrisl · October 2014

Urgh, I've been having problems with this mission - I've basically just rage-quit to come and have a rant on the forums...! Tbh, I'm finding a lot of DR immensely frustrating. I love the game (despite all the bugs and so on) but the Vaudwaar are ridiculously over-powered and then stupid missions like this one get thrown into the mix. I just can't beat the Holographic Voth Bulwark at all. Tried using Photonic Fleet, Fleet Support, etc. etc. but the Bulwark just batters me down to nothing and then when I come back it's back to 100% hull and full shields. I love the storyline but this is just something else... Grr...

oridjerraa · October 2014

To the OP. I ran alliance tonight with my t5u ambassador. It's very well geared, but its NOT how many tac consoles that made that fight easy. I have never used a star cruiser, but I believe it has a lt and ensign sci slots. TBR(with doff and a tractor beam) can allow you to park yourself next to one shield facing and unleash fury. If the immunity shield pops up use Evasive to get to a different angle.

Build your star cruiser as a point blank battleship. Open one shield facing and hammer on hull, arc torpedo is a big plus to this set up. Be aggressive and be able to take hits. get close, stay close.

Brody Tos Veteran

gulberat · October 2014

So far this is the only enemy in the DQ that has given me a serious headache in space, though I will also admit I am very, very inexperienced with fighting Voth in space. This one caused numerous respawns and a lot of cursing, on my T5-U Vesta until I finally pulled it off.

In contrast while I do occasionally have a respawn with the Vaadwaur, it's nowhere near on the level I had with that Bulwark. And yes, I was playing on Normal, but it felt more like an (old) Elite STF, minus having to burn a component on respawn. I will be interested to see what happens when I go through with a different kind of ship...I do have one more toon I plan to take to Level 60.

coolheadal · October 2014

Attack from the rear of that ship and focus your all your fire there. Since that ship seems stronger in dead-on attacks. I've made some major changes on my 3 toons. KDF on Monday had to go up against this ship. With the new mods features he was take it out faster than I did with the old mod changes under my FED Sci.

They DR mission are tougher than normal, but give you a good idea what's weak on your ship in battle.

giotariz · October 2014

I tore through that Holo-Wark in about ten seconds on my escort, 20 secs on my t5 avenger and 1 min on my part-Gen Sci magic ship. If you're failing then you're the one with the problem, not the mission.

jarfaru · October 2014

This wa my toughest mission too. I even took hull damage in this one. Got low as 40% at one point. Long fight but my phaser lance finished it off. Fun and challenging mission.

kurumimorishita · October 2014

Hmmm.. nope.. absolutely no problem for my Jem'Hadar Dreadnought and its Elite JHAS pets - they eat warks for breakfast ;P

darkjeff · October 2014

My level 60 with a handful of Spec points also had no trouble in a JHDC with JHAS hangers.

My level 56 (yeah, I rushed to get Ensign Spud before they "fix" him) had one heck of a time in her Faeht. Seems like it took forever.

Mission: Alliances and the Holographic Bulwark

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