Yeah, I'm just going to let it go. It's a horrible idea that quite a few of us are against. Nothing else constructive can be added to this thread. It's only a few post away before someone uses Godwin's Law to attempt to win the argument. :P
I've read the OP and most of the opinions. As a fleet leader of a fleet of 300 or so that has been here since day 2 I can understand your frustration; however, I disagree completely with having to pass a test to create a fleet and I disagree even more with disbanding an established fleet that doesn't pass your test in a specific time frame. My fleet and I have invested a lot of time and a fair amount of real world money into our fleet holdings. I'm not loosing them because I have to take some test. That's not fair or right. Sorry it's not a fair request and should never happen.
As a leader in an existing fleet, I'm too busy being a leader, engaging with fleet members, assisting on missions, helping new members or lower level players, and keeping everyone involved to spend time trying to take some test arbitrarily thrown at me years after forming the fleet. Let me lead my fleet, not waste my time trying to live up to your expectations.
from someone not in a fleet, one of the biggest turn offs when I get the random invite is the name of the fleet.
Seriously, Knights of the federation? GMAFB. if I want to be a "knight" I'll go to the star wars MMO.
and as far as the OP's "ideas" of "qualifying" for fleet command.. I'll throw a middle finger. If I was serious about making a fleet just to not be bothered. I'd make the ME fleet, and after it's formed release the other four.
Let me ask you a question... If you just come into the game and get a request to join a fleet, only to find out that the "Top Dog" is a lvl 11 that has only played 1 week, would you be pleased to know that the game let's fleets be created that easily?.
I posted this in your other thread, but have since seen this is the main thread - I am pasting it here:
As leader of a T5 fleet with over 400 players, I think this is a terrible idea.
It is elitist, seeking to impose a single person's narrow set of standards (which reading between the lines seem to be largely based upon a feeling that their role is somehow 'devalued' by the fact other fleets/leaders do not meet their arbitrary standards) upon upon the majority.
Frankly, I don't agree with your premise that there is a problem in the first place - and even if I did, the solution you propose is excessively complex and convoluted. Certain measure, such as your proposal that existing fleets that do not meet your standards should be disbanded, are borderline offensive.
Why not focus on running your fleet the way that you (and I would hope your members) want it to be run, without trying to force others to conform to your views?
Its a game - its supposed to be fun. Live and let live
I find this funny... I seen a couple comments where opinions express remarks that actually have some proof that the full original post was completely read. I respect those opinions fully, because they are actually thought-out opinions.
That said, most comments thus far to this proposal are nothing more than half read, lazy remarks(mostly flaming) because they (the replier) took a small portion of something they read out of context of the big picture.
I REPEAT for whatever time:
This proposal IS a guideline to point out the need to be a change in Fleet Creation.
There was never a mention of changing rank level to create a fleet.
The "Qualify" of current fleets has NOTHING to do with how strong they are; the purpose with it was a way for the system to point out what current fleets are a "true fleet" and not some "BS" fleet made and then, may be dead, as far the system can tell.
And after all is said and done, I guess we just need more "new" content that adds additional grinds, or attempts to sell more C-store items to open our wallets to PW. It's not like additional content can be added for just the challenge AND just maybe, maybe might improve the overall gameplay or the game itself. Depending on the Dev programming, even if its requires 5-10 runs to beat it... Is that really worse than having more grind content added?
I for 1 would rather have just a new challenge without a catch grind or it having a promotion for something new to sell me, that may or may not be better than what I already am using. :cool:
I am not about discouraging anyone from running their own fleet, but ...
The rest of this is about creating obstacles to discourage people from running their own fleet.
The first of these issues is that new players come into this game, dont really have any true knowledge of how the game runs or plays, but get the Big-Head personality, believing they know how the game runs, after only playing the game a limited time. On top of this, they go into the endgame content, mouthing off at the experienced Veteran players and serious fleet members, disrupting the missions with this ego complex.
I do not know of a single game where this is not a problem, and only one where the community is simply tight enough to run anyone off who isn't mature enough to play the game.
A second issue that has recently came to my attention regarding our fleet ..... is copycat names of established fleets.
I would agree that this is in poor taste, but I would not assume that people copy cat a fleet name deliberately. I would never assume that I am the only one who can come up with an idea, especially a fleet name which is always going to gravitate toward certain popular themes. That being said, the more established fleet should be able to request another fleet change their name should Cryptic agree they are "Bem Sonens." (This is a legal term which allows for names to be treated as the same if they can be pronounced the same regardless of spelling.)
purging and preventing the ability of Fly by Night fleets
First of all, I would suspect that the fly by night fleets are as likely, if not more likely, to be manned by those willing to pump several hundred dollars into dilithium to make their fleet. Second, I have a small fleet, and frequently get driven out of STO by the updates. They destroyed my crafting characters and gave them an accolade to replace their ability to make anything that was craftable in game. With Delta Rising they have destroyed my ability to get more than a pitance of dilithium unless I buy it with Zen - they have all but completely shut down my fleets ability to develop and made the grind so excessive I could just about care less if they went bankrupt.
Step 1: Design a mission or series of missions that will prove the worth ...
This pressumes that only one mindset should be permitted to make fleets and socialize in the manner of a fleet. It is like asking who should decide what the requirements to be a parent are, or as Azetbur stated: "Inalien..." if you could only hear yourselves. "Human rights." Why, the very name is racist.
Further, making these missions only available to Advanced play is to also presume that the lower classes have no right to self government, self expression, or self determination since the Advanced and Elite levels of play are only for those who buy the ability to win.
In regards of current fleets already established, when the system is introduced, current fleet admirals ONLY, will receive a notification that they have a time period to pick up the mission, and then an additional set time period for the fleet admiral to complete the mission successfully with other fleet members.
I am disabled. I have a limited budget. I have over the years spent more money on STO than I probably should. I have purchased T5 and many other ships - whose value is quickly worthless due to their level limitations. I have a lifetime account and have had since near the launch of the game. I also am older. I have military service, experience in organizational analysis, public relations, and education in ethics, religion, and political science. I have worked at the blue collar bottom and been a city alderman. I know what my qualifications for leadership are, and no computerized bureaucratic hodge-podge can accurately assess the range of what it takes to be a successful leader. A high income doesn't make for a decent person, effort to be a decent person does - there is no test graded in points that can qualify that. However, based on your rules I would be forced onto 'purchase to win gear' in order to be qualify in Advanced missions to have my small fleet.
I am not in support of the majority of your proposal - only that fleet names where the an existing fleet could be mistaken for a fleet with less longevity should be able to protest the other fleet. My small fleet's name is STUN - which is an acronym for SICARII TENEBRIAE VINDICA NUMINI (Daggers of the Land of Shadow avenge the Sacred). Like you we have strict requirements in behavior, a code of conduct developed from basic ethics, ESRB standards, as well as elements required by Cryptic, Funcom, Microsoft, Sony, etc. on a legal level. I would not want my fleet confused with others. I am however, not willing to submit my guild or myself to an arbitrary process in a game to determine that our multi-gaming guild is not worthy of existence in STO because of some philosophical constructs limited by programming.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
The rest of this is about creating obstacles to discourage people from running their own fleet.
I do not know of a single game where this is not a problem, and only one where the community is simply tight enough to run anyone off who isn't mature enough to play the game.
I would agree that this is in poor taste, but I would not assume that people copy cat a fleet name deliberately. I would never assume that I am the only one who can come up with an idea, especially a fleet name which is always going to gravitate toward certain popular themes. That being said, the more established fleet should be able to request another fleet change their name should Cryptic agree they are "Bem Sonens." (This is a legal term which allows for names to be treated as the same if they can be pronounced the same regardless of spelling.)
First of all, I would suspect that the fly by night fleets are as likely, if not more likely, to be manned by those willing to pump several hundred dollars into dilithium to make their fleet. Second, I have a small fleet, and frequently get driven out of STO by the updates. They destroyed my crafting characters and gave them an accolade to replace their ability to make anything that was craftable in game. With Delta Rising they have destroyed my ability to get more than a pitance of dilithium unless I buy it with Zen - they have all but completely shut down my fleets ability to develop and made the grind so excessive I could just about care less if they went bankrupt.
This pressumes that only one mindset should be permitted to make fleets and socialize in the manner of a fleet. It is like asking who should decide what the requirements to be a parent are, or as Azetbur stated: "Inalien..." if you could only hear yourselves. "Human rights." Why, the very name is racist.
Further, making these missions only available to Advanced play is to also presume that the lower classes have no right to self government, self expression, or self determination since the Advanced and Elite levels of play are only for those who buy the ability to win.
I am disabled. I have a limited budget. I have over the years spent more money on STO than I probably should. I have purchased T5 and many other ships - whose value is quickly worthless due to their level limitations. I have a lifetime account and have had since near the launch of the game. I also am older. I have military service, experience in organizational analysis, public relations, and education in ethics, religion, and political science. I have worked at the blue collar bottom and been a city alderman. I know what my qualifications for leadership are, and no computerized bureaucratic hodge-podge can accurately assess the range of what it takes to be a successful leader. A high income doesn't make for a decent person, effort to be a decent person does - there is no test graded in points that can qualify that. However, based on your rules I would be forced onto 'purchase to win gear' in order to be qualify in Advanced missions to have my small fleet.
I am not in support of the majority of your proposal - only that fleet names where the an existing fleet could be mistaken for a fleet with less longevity should be able to protest the other fleet. My small fleet's name is STUN - which is an acronym for SICARII TENEBRIAE VINDICA NUMINI (Daggers of the Land of Shadow avenge the Sacred). Like you we have strict requirements in behavior, a code of conduct developed from basic ethics, ESRB standards, as well as elements required by Cryptic, Funcom, Microsoft, Sony, etc. on a legal level. I would not want my fleet confused with others. I am however, not willing to submit my guild or myself to an arbitrary process in a game to determine that our multi-gaming guild is not worthy of existence in STO because of some philosophical constructs limited by programming.
Hello wudwaen,
I respect your opinion on my proposal... it is apparent that you read it thoroughly. Yes, I may have used some poor choice of wording in a some places, and that may have came off in a manner I wasn't wanting.
I however believe I pointed out the issues with the current system accurately, and while the majority of the posts I see here don't agree with my proposal, I also notice that those posts 1) whining because it'll make a change that they have to prove they are an real fleet, 2) may cause issues with their "mule" (term we used in Diablo) fleets, 3) it wasn't my idea so I'm going to shoot it down 4) It takes away some "God-given" right they have developed in their minds to get around the way the game was program that they don't like 5) or just people too lazy to take the time of reading and add strange "BS" that wasn't even in the the proposal at all.
Most importantly to all this:
Everyone claims they don't like my proposal, but I have not seen a single proposal made by anyone else... I guess too much hard work to try on their own, but sure is easy for them to try to shoot someone else down for trying..
Everyone claims they don't like my proposal, but I have not seen a single proposal made by anyone else... I guess too much hard work to try on their own, but sure is easy for them to try to shoot someone else down for trying..
I propose we leave it how it is rather than try solving problems that do not exist.
Everyone claims they don't like my proposal, but I have not seen a single proposal made by anyone else... I guess too much hard work to try on their own, but sure is easy for them to try to shoot someone else down for trying..
Perhaps that is because the current system, warts and all, is entirely, completely, and wholly preferable in every possible manner to your ill-considered proposal. Is that plain enough for you? Let me be even more frank. Your proposal is without merit. Entirely.
So far in this thread, I've seen one reply that might have slightly agreed with you on one point, and one who didn't agree with you at all but at least defended you from another poster who stated he was going to "tell on you". That's ... not a lot of support. Perhaps that, more than anything else, should tell you something.
But then, perhaps you're simply Nabreeki writing under a nomme de plume, in which case I'd have to admit that you do a wonderful job of stirring up the hornet's nest.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
We spent years trying to get fleets to the state we have them now, took a while to get new security stuff to try to prevent people stealing a fleet, why do wee need to completely change something, that does not need to be changed. If fleets are started, then fail, hoiw the hell cares, that's how it should be, survival of the fittest.
So daveyny,
To answer your points, my wallet has open TOO many times for a game sub-par to most MMOs out on the market, for both myself & my son. Only reason I have stayed with the game in the state its in now, is that its the ONLY decent Star Trek title out there.
Secondly, no ego here... I don't do 20-30k DPS, don't try to... Our fleet isn't elitists, but we are decent players. I want to enjoy the game w/o headaches... headaches from ppl that have to exploit something in a game in order for them to have fun, not play the game the was it was meant to be played.
So now you made ya point, ya don't like the idea... so PLEASE, give other players a chance to express their views w/o ya attempting to make the thread point mute.
Though you, all by yourself, did just make this threads point "mute".
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Though you, all by yourself, did just make this threads point "mute".
Yeah Davey boy... whatever, you are most definitely not worth the time it takes for me to type this, which isn't that long.
I remind everyone of what I stated earlier... Too lazy to offer ya own proposal, claim to believe there's nothing wrong with current system (otherwise that would mean ya would have to do something that ya was too lazy to do to begin with, or can't do anyways)...
Which after the antics of Cryptic today, I doubt I have to even worry about this thread. I doubt the player base will do anything constructive about the uproar they claim to have over the Tau Dewe shutdown today... Why? Cryptic doesn't have to worry since its playerbase is too damn lazy and all talk, but no action, that both PW and Cryptic can feel secure in getting their paychecks from ya all...
So far in this thread, I've seen one reply that might have slightly agreed with you on one point, and one who didn't agree with you at all but at least defended you from another poster who stated he was going to "tell on you". That's ... not a lot of support. Perhaps that, more than anything else, should tell you something.
I should point out that I was only going to report him for calling people trolls, not because I wanted him to drop the topic. And he hasn't used the T-word since then, so I consider that a win.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Fleet system is fine. Only thing the proposal would accomplish is that a subset of players the OP deems "unworthy" will be unable to run around with a fleet name and customized patch.
Players like me for instance, who runs a two man fleet with a friend, (proud owners of a Tier 3 starbase) who don't bother anyone, don't spam invites and simply want to play our game under our tiny fleet umbrella that lends itself to RP once in a while.
I respect your opinion on my proposal... it is apparent that you read it thoroughly. Yes, I may have used some poor choice of wording in a some places, and that may have came off in a manner I wasn't wanting.
I however believe I pointed out the issues with the current system accurately, and while the majority of the posts I see here don't agree with my proposal, I also notice that those posts 1) whining because it'll make a change that they have to prove they are an real fleet, 2) may cause issues with their "mule" (term we used in Diablo) fleets, 3) it wasn't my idea so I'm going to shoot it down 4) It takes away some "God-given" right they have developed in their minds to get around the way the game was program that they don't like 5) or just people too lazy to take the time of reading and add strange "BS" that wasn't even in the the proposal at all.
Most importantly to all this:
Everyone claims they don't like my proposal, but I have not seen a single proposal made by anyone else... I guess too much hard work to try on their own, but sure is easy for them to try to shoot someone else down for trying..
It's a bad idea and as for being to much " hard work" get off the high horse for a supposed " great leader" your making your entire fleet look bad getting into petty squabbles on a forum. I know if I was unfleeted I wouldn't go near your fleet just based on your actions in this thread and would actively avoid you in game. You voiced your idea and has been throughly rejected by your peers in this thread it's time to move on or look at your idea and see why it may not be good if you can't do that and admit you might be wrong then you are no leader.
Sorry, I tried not to reply to this thread but I suppose I will provide an alternative viewpoint.
I disagree with the OP's reasoning but I also disagree with nearly every reply.
The current fleet system is thoroughly broken because it is currently impossible to create a T5 fleet. Anyone who disagrees is just deluding themselves or has vast amounts of money to throw at the game.
A) No one wants to join anything but a T5 fleet.
No one wants to join a fleet that's empty because everyone leaves to find a T5 fleet.
There are a few exceptions but those are pretty hard and fast rules that the game currently runs under.
This makes the current fleets out there either unassailable or unable to advance. Accept it, deal with it, or fix it.
"I saw someone with the same Fleet name as mine. I want the entire system overhauled so that only my fleet can be called this!"
I don't wish to sound mean here but if you don't want people "copying" your fleet name, which chances are they don't know even exists, then you should really have made something more original sounding in the first place.
So here we are again... People still shooting down others trying to make things better, but can't offer anything to go with their bashing. But like I stated in my last post from last night, this whole converse is basically over, because from my eyes anyway, Cryptic FINALLY showed their true colors yesterday. I myself was unaware of the Tau Dewe leveling ability (which was programmed by Cryptic from the get go) and wasn't an exploit, no matter what BS was tried to be dished out over it.
You ask me, Cryptic just told EVERYONE with their actions, "You pay us to create the game, we'll create it the way we want to... but we're going to tell you how you can play it, and if we (Cryptic) don't like the way you play it, we'll put an end to it." A company with that mindset aren't listening to any of us: Vet players trying to make a difference, the "Flamers", the "Trollers", "Newcomers", "PAYING CUSTOMERS!"... NONE OF US!
So basically like I said last: It's clear my proposals (no matter if the fanbase likes it or hates it), or anyone else's suggestions for that matter, are falling on deaf ears and will continue to do so as long as CCP/PW continue to draw in REAL CASH!
I have stated a couple times now on the forums over last couple months, that as long as PW has their claws in Cryptic, I'll have a Fort Knox lock-down on my wallet, and its been like that for about 3-6 months now. Until yesterday, I had believed that PW was to blame for the greediness and lack of listening to the playerbase. Cryptic prove to me yesterday that PW isn't the only one at fault here. That all ended yesterday and I, again, didn't have a clue of the Tau Dewe Leveling. I have supported (Agrument-wise and Cash-wise) Cryptic since the beginning of this game. NO more!
I will continue to play this half-TRIBBLE programmed, bug-infested game until it shuts down since I was looking for a replacement for Starfleet Command when Atari destroyed that community, but not a single penny will leave my family's wallet in support again. And WHEN it does shut down, I'll be looking for another Star Trek title worthy (though STO lost being worthy a LONG time ago) of playing again, unless it takes another 8 to 10+ yrs., which most likely means I will end up in my grave before it happens.
Most importantly to all this:
Everyone claims they don't like my proposal, but I have not seen a single proposal made by anyone else... I guess too much hard work to try on their own, but sure is easy for them to try to shoot someone else down for trying..
The problem is, you are, in effect, trying to solve the problem of the sky being blue. in short, you are trying to solve a problem that does not exist except in your own mind. (Especially the "qualifications" to create/lead a fleet)
So here we are again... People still shooting down others trying to make things better, but can't offer anything to go with their bashing.
There are so many symbols in the fleet emblem maker that cannot be done. Getting the right colors is near impossible because once an emblem is chosen, its exact colors and combination of elements is locked. (It is a shame they are not visible enough on the ships to be effective - and some ships can't even display them.) A similar system could just as easily be put in place concerning fleet names, but would hurt those who have had to expand into multiple units because of the size of their fleets.
You ask me, Cryptic just told EVERYONE with their actions, "You pay us to create the game, we'll create it the way we want to... but we're going to tell you how you can play it, and if we (Cryptic) don't like the way you play it, we'll put an end to it." A company with that mindset aren't listening to any of us: Vet players trying to make a difference, the "Flamers", the "Trollers", "Newcomers", "PAYING CUSTOMERS!"... NONE OF US!
This was on display years ago when they quit having a customer relations department that could be contacted. The best most dynamic gaming companies to deal with are those who have functional and responsive customer service in game. Twice now I have purchased packages from Cryptic for another game, to have it not delivered, and no one in customer service to deal with or respond to the issue for a week. However, a credit card dispute and report to the Better Business Bureau was responded to within 1 minute by banning all my accounts in the PWE system. As someone degreed specifically in Human Relations, I have been aware for sometime that there is no interest in good or even passable customer relations.
More amusingly, for a corporate structure lead out of Beijing, is the complete capitalistic approach of only treating people as marks to thug out of their money. It appears soft-side socialism bears a strong resemblence to dark side capitalism - you know the kind where they generate an addiction and then milk the addict until their dead.
The current fleet system is thoroughly broken because it is currently impossible to create a T5 fleet. Anyone who disagrees is just deluding themselves or has vast amounts of money to throw at the game.
A) No one wants to join anything but a T5 fleet.
No one wants to join a fleet that's empty because everyone leaves to find a T5 fleet.
There are a few exceptions but those are pretty hard and fast rules that the game currently runs under.
This makes the current fleets out there either unassailable or unable to advance. Accept it, deal with it, or fix it.
Agreed, and Delta Rising made this condition worse by destroying the few methods casual players had for building casual fleets. The problem is that the system, in rewarding constant effort, is not designed to entertain but to become a kind of work. One is expected to purchase DOff slots, maximize DOff returns two to three times a day, farm boosts daily, farm things like the (slightly broken) Defera Run all day long, and purchase Zen for additional Dilithium in order to craft, purchase equipment, and develop a fleet. The goal appears to be to monopolize not only the players time, but also their money. There was a time when this game was not pay to win, that has vanished.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
I agree that the fleet system does need a bit of love from the devs, however I don't think that there is really an issue with how someone runs a fleet.
There are a bunch of different ways, from RP players to having a rigid, militaristic style which most casual players wouldn't be okay with, and then you have large fleets that have been around for a while, that have a more elaborate style, mine for example has 5 Fleet Admiral level players (dubbed Donkey Kong) 7 rank 6's (Pacman) and then the rest vary on numbers, though the lower it goes the less responsibility, rank 1: being recruits, 2: standard members, 3: longer term members who do not want any "Administrative" responsibilities 4: Longer term players who are actively involved with the fleet by taking a leadership role by their own choice and 5: been in the fleet for quite some time and do assist in administrative work with the fleet.
That's what we found has worked very well. Other fleets of like size have completely different structures, and it works for them quite well. I'm not saying everyone should run a fleet like the fleet that I'm a member of. Quite the contrary actually: I'd say that everyone who runs a fleet should run a fleet how they find works well for their fleet.
one of the big things I agree with from the OP's rant is the naming conventions in the fleet system. There can be issues with the Knights of the Federation and Knight's of the Federation. The latter groups behavior can cause many problems with the prior. I think that Cryptic should add a system in to prevent "copycat" fleet names.
TheGrateLordeCheesus Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM Doesn't Owe AnyoneEC Kirks Prot
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Seriously, Knights of the federation? GMAFB. if I want to be a "knight" I'll go to the star wars MMO.
and as far as the OP's "ideas" of "qualifying" for fleet command.. I'll throw a middle finger. If I was serious about making a fleet just to not be bothered. I'd make the ME fleet, and after it's formed release the other four.
Don't tell me how to play the game. it's nunya.
Yes. Actually I am pleased.
As leader of a T5 fleet with over 400 players, I think this is a terrible idea.
It is elitist, seeking to impose a single person's narrow set of standards (which reading between the lines seem to be largely based upon a feeling that their role is somehow 'devalued' by the fact other fleets/leaders do not meet their arbitrary standards) upon upon the majority.
Frankly, I don't agree with your premise that there is a problem in the first place - and even if I did, the solution you propose is excessively complex and convoluted. Certain measure, such as your proposal that existing fleets that do not meet your standards should be disbanded, are borderline offensive.
Why not focus on running your fleet the way that you (and I would hope your members) want it to be run, without trying to force others to conform to your views?
Its a game - its supposed to be fun. Live and let live
That said, most comments thus far to this proposal are nothing more than half read, lazy remarks(mostly flaming) because they (the replier) took a small portion of something they read out of context of the big picture.
I REPEAT for whatever time:
This proposal IS a guideline to point out the need to be a change in Fleet Creation.
There was never a mention of changing rank level to create a fleet.
The "Qualify" of current fleets has NOTHING to do with how strong they are; the purpose with it was a way for the system to point out what current fleets are a "true fleet" and not some "BS" fleet made and then, may be dead, as far the system can tell.
And after all is said and done, I guess we just need more "new" content that adds additional grinds, or attempts to sell more C-store items to open our wallets to PW. It's not like additional content can be added for just the challenge AND just maybe, maybe might improve the overall gameplay or the game itself. Depending on the Dev programming, even if its requires 5-10 runs to beat it... Is that really worse than having more grind content added?
I for 1 would rather have just a new challenge without a catch grind or it having a promotion for something new to sell me, that may or may not be better than what I already am using. :cool:
Again, food for thought...
Knights Of The Federation
I do not know of a single game where this is not a problem, and only one where the community is simply tight enough to run anyone off who isn't mature enough to play the game.
I would agree that this is in poor taste, but I would not assume that people copy cat a fleet name deliberately. I would never assume that I am the only one who can come up with an idea, especially a fleet name which is always going to gravitate toward certain popular themes. That being said, the more established fleet should be able to request another fleet change their name should Cryptic agree they are "Bem Sonens." (This is a legal term which allows for names to be treated as the same if they can be pronounced the same regardless of spelling.)
First of all, I would suspect that the fly by night fleets are as likely, if not more likely, to be manned by those willing to pump several hundred dollars into dilithium to make their fleet. Second, I have a small fleet, and frequently get driven out of STO by the updates. They destroyed my crafting characters and gave them an accolade to replace their ability to make anything that was craftable in game. With Delta Rising they have destroyed my ability to get more than a pitance of dilithium unless I buy it with Zen - they have all but completely shut down my fleets ability to develop and made the grind so excessive I could just about care less if they went bankrupt.
This pressumes that only one mindset should be permitted to make fleets and socialize in the manner of a fleet. It is like asking who should decide what the requirements to be a parent are, or as Azetbur stated: "Inalien..." if you could only hear yourselves. "Human rights." Why, the very name is racist.
Further, making these missions only available to Advanced play is to also presume that the lower classes have no right to self government, self expression, or self determination since the Advanced and Elite levels of play are only for those who buy the ability to win.
I am disabled. I have a limited budget. I have over the years spent more money on STO than I probably should. I have purchased T5 and many other ships - whose value is quickly worthless due to their level limitations. I have a lifetime account and have had since near the launch of the game. I also am older. I have military service, experience in organizational analysis, public relations, and education in ethics, religion, and political science. I have worked at the blue collar bottom and been a city alderman. I know what my qualifications for leadership are, and no computerized bureaucratic hodge-podge can accurately assess the range of what it takes to be a successful leader. A high income doesn't make for a decent person, effort to be a decent person does - there is no test graded in points that can qualify that. However, based on your rules I would be forced onto 'purchase to win gear' in order to be qualify in Advanced missions to have my small fleet.
I am not in support of the majority of your proposal - only that fleet names where the an existing fleet could be mistaken for a fleet with less longevity should be able to protest the other fleet. My small fleet's name is STUN - which is an acronym for SICARII TENEBRIAE VINDICA NUMINI (Daggers of the Land of Shadow avenge the Sacred). Like you we have strict requirements in behavior, a code of conduct developed from basic ethics, ESRB standards, as well as elements required by Cryptic, Funcom, Microsoft, Sony, etc. on a legal level. I would not want my fleet confused with others. I am however, not willing to submit my guild or myself to an arbitrary process in a game to determine that our multi-gaming guild is not worthy of existence in STO because of some philosophical constructs limited by programming.
Hello wudwaen,
I respect your opinion on my proposal... it is apparent that you read it thoroughly. Yes, I may have used some poor choice of wording in a some places, and that may have came off in a manner I wasn't wanting.
I however believe I pointed out the issues with the current system accurately, and while the majority of the posts I see here don't agree with my proposal, I also notice that those posts 1) whining because it'll make a change that they have to prove they are an real fleet, 2) may cause issues with their "mule" (term we used in Diablo) fleets, 3) it wasn't my idea so I'm going to shoot it down 4) It takes away some "God-given" right they have developed in their minds to get around the way the game was program that they don't like 5) or just people too lazy to take the time of reading and add strange "BS" that wasn't even in the the proposal at all.
Most importantly to all this:
Everyone claims they don't like my proposal, but I have not seen a single proposal made by anyone else... I guess too much hard work to try on their own, but sure is easy for them to try to shoot someone else down for trying..
Knights Of The Federation
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So far in this thread, I've seen one reply that might have slightly agreed with you on one point, and one who didn't agree with you at all but at least defended you from another poster who stated he was going to "tell on you". That's ... not a lot of support. Perhaps that, more than anything else, should tell you something.
But then, perhaps you're simply Nabreeki writing under a nomme de plume, in which case I'd have to admit that you do a wonderful job of stirring up the hornet's nest.
--Red Annorax
We spent years trying to get fleets to the state we have them now, took a while to get new security stuff to try to prevent people stealing a fleet, why do wee need to completely change something, that does not need to be changed. If fleets are started, then fail, hoiw the hell cares, that's how it should be, survival of the fittest.
The word you're searching for is "moot".
Though you, all by yourself, did just make this threads point "mute".
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Yeah Davey boy... whatever, you are most definitely not worth the time it takes for me to type this, which isn't that long.
I remind everyone of what I stated earlier... Too lazy to offer ya own proposal, claim to believe there's nothing wrong with current system (otherwise that would mean ya would have to do something that ya was too lazy to do to begin with, or can't do anyways)...
Which after the antics of Cryptic today, I doubt I have to even worry about this thread. I doubt the player base will do anything constructive about the uproar they claim to have over the Tau Dewe shutdown today... Why? Cryptic doesn't have to worry since its playerbase is too damn lazy and all talk, but no action, that both PW and Cryptic can feel secure in getting their paychecks from ya all...
Knights Of The Federation
I should point out that I was only going to report him for calling people trolls, not because I wanted him to drop the topic. And he hasn't used the T-word since then, so I consider that a win.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Players like me for instance, who runs a two man fleet with a friend, (proud owners of a Tier 3 starbase) who don't bother anyone, don't spam invites and simply want to play our game under our tiny fleet umbrella that lends itself to RP once in a while.
It's a bad idea and as for being to much " hard work" get off the high horse for a supposed " great leader" your making your entire fleet look bad getting into petty squabbles on a forum. I know if I was unfleeted I wouldn't go near your fleet just based on your actions in this thread and would actively avoid you in game. You voiced your idea and has been throughly rejected by your peers in this thread it's time to move on or look at your idea and see why it may not be good if you can't do that and admit you might be wrong then you are no leader.
I disagree with the OP's reasoning but I also disagree with nearly every reply.
The current fleet system is thoroughly broken because it is currently impossible to create a T5 fleet. Anyone who disagrees is just deluding themselves or has vast amounts of money to throw at the game.
A) No one wants to join anything but a T5 fleet.
There are a few exceptions but those are pretty hard and fast rules that the game currently runs under.
This makes the current fleets out there either unassailable or unable to advance. Accept it, deal with it, or fix it.
"I saw someone with the same Fleet name as mine. I want the entire system overhauled so that only my fleet can be called this!"
I don't wish to sound mean here but if you don't want people "copying" your fleet name, which chances are they don't know even exists, then you should really have made something more original sounding in the first place.
You ask me, Cryptic just told EVERYONE with their actions, "You pay us to create the game, we'll create it the way we want to... but we're going to tell you how you can play it, and if we (Cryptic) don't like the way you play it, we'll put an end to it." A company with that mindset aren't listening to any of us: Vet players trying to make a difference, the "Flamers", the "Trollers", "Newcomers", "PAYING CUSTOMERS!"... NONE OF US!
So basically like I said last: It's clear my proposals (no matter if the fanbase likes it or hates it), or anyone else's suggestions for that matter, are falling on deaf ears and will continue to do so as long as CCP/PW continue to draw in REAL CASH!
I have stated a couple times now on the forums over last couple months, that as long as PW has their claws in Cryptic, I'll have a Fort Knox lock-down on my wallet, and its been like that for about 3-6 months now. Until yesterday, I had believed that PW was to blame for the greediness and lack of listening to the playerbase. Cryptic prove to me yesterday that PW isn't the only one at fault here. That all ended yesterday and I, again, didn't have a clue of the Tau Dewe Leveling. I have supported (Agrument-wise and Cash-wise) Cryptic since the beginning of this game. NO more!
I will continue to play this half-TRIBBLE programmed, bug-infested game until it shuts down since I was looking for a replacement for Starfleet Command when Atari destroyed that community, but not a single penny will leave my family's wallet in support again. And WHEN it does shut down, I'll be looking for another Star Trek title worthy (though STO lost being worthy a LONG time ago) of playing again, unless it takes another 8 to 10+ yrs., which most likely means I will end up in my grave before it happens.
Knights Of The Federation
The problem is, you are, in effect, trying to solve the problem of the sky being blue. in short, you are trying to solve a problem that does not exist except in your own mind. (Especially the "qualifications" to create/lead a fleet)
This was on display years ago when they quit having a customer relations department that could be contacted. The best most dynamic gaming companies to deal with are those who have functional and responsive customer service in game. Twice now I have purchased packages from Cryptic for another game, to have it not delivered, and no one in customer service to deal with or respond to the issue for a week. However, a credit card dispute and report to the Better Business Bureau was responded to within 1 minute by banning all my accounts in the PWE system. As someone degreed specifically in Human Relations, I have been aware for sometime that there is no interest in good or even passable customer relations.
More amusingly, for a corporate structure lead out of Beijing, is the complete capitalistic approach of only treating people as marks to thug out of their money. It appears soft-side socialism bears a strong resemblence to dark side capitalism - you know the kind where they generate an addiction and then milk the addict until their dead.
Agreed, and Delta Rising made this condition worse by destroying the few methods casual players had for building casual fleets. The problem is that the system, in rewarding constant effort, is not designed to entertain but to become a kind of work. One is expected to purchase DOff slots, maximize DOff returns two to three times a day, farm boosts daily, farm things like the (slightly broken) Defera Run all day long, and purchase Zen for additional Dilithium in order to craft, purchase equipment, and develop a fleet. The goal appears to be to monopolize not only the players time, but also their money. There was a time when this game was not pay to win, that has vanished.
There are a bunch of different ways, from RP players to having a rigid, militaristic style which most casual players wouldn't be okay with, and then you have large fleets that have been around for a while, that have a more elaborate style, mine for example has 5 Fleet Admiral level players (dubbed Donkey Kong) 7 rank 6's (Pacman) and then the rest vary on numbers, though the lower it goes the less responsibility, rank 1: being recruits, 2: standard members, 3: longer term members who do not want any "Administrative" responsibilities 4: Longer term players who are actively involved with the fleet by taking a leadership role by their own choice and 5: been in the fleet for quite some time and do assist in administrative work with the fleet.
That's what we found has worked very well. Other fleets of like size have completely different structures, and it works for them quite well. I'm not saying everyone should run a fleet like the fleet that I'm a member of. Quite the contrary actually: I'd say that everyone who runs a fleet should run a fleet how they find works well for their fleet.
one of the big things I agree with from the OP's rant is the naming conventions in the fleet system. There can be issues with the Knights of the Federation and Knight's of the Federation. The latter groups behavior can cause many problems with the prior. I think that Cryptic should add a system in to prevent "copycat" fleet names.
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