Like you i planned ahead, i took one of my characters and ran every mission and sector patrol ready to hand in on release day and this gave me 2 - 3 levels head start.
granted by the time i got to 58 that did tail of and i had to grind some more
ROFL. You did all that and still it wasn't enough? I guess they wanted to copy Perfect World (the MMO) where quests would give you maybe 25% of the level and you had to farm 1000's of mobs for the rest.
I just spent a half hour on one Patrol Hirogen escort with a 650,000 hull with a T5 ship with all Mk 13 fleet weapons, consoles, and reputation space set. Also, a half hout doing Fluid Dynamics. Roughly blown into pieces 30 times in the step trying to figure out new or different tactics.
The only way I think someone is able to get a leg up is to fork over a lot of $$$$ to Cryptic for Epic gambling fest research and development gear and upgrades utilizing the C-Store and Lobi box TRIBBLE. So, I do not know how that can be called long duration levelling up.
I think this new system reinforces the Pay-To-Win model with a new monetization and grindfest.
When I think of challenge, I think of Kirk vs Khan in Wrath of Khan not throw a bigger gun with invisible torpedoon a ship made with a 10 feet width hull distance instead of a typic 1 feet width hull distance.
New R&D gear sucks save 1 or 2 consoles and other than traits it just gives you the ooh shiny stuff. I run mk12 VR rep gear aside from my Mk14 UR solonae deflector on my R'Mor and do just fine. Shields are an issue but my part gen build steadily eats away hulls so 650k hull is like 2 mins of part gen hull eating.
Yes, there is a known problem at the moment with HP being too high, but outside of that, people want to continue to face-roll through the content...
People still faceroll through the content. The only difference is the amount of time it takes to do it. The vast increase in that time is what people are complaining about.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
im saying its a jolly good product, from what i have seen of it so far.
My mate upgraded a ship this morning and had a fair amount of expensive gear vanish, there isn't enough content or enough skill points for the content to level properly even running it on Elite, not to mention how expensive the upgrade system is (and buggy), just to name a few things.
I see those as legitimate complaints, and frankly painting everyone with a brush by saying they're 'whining' is rather pathetic, because whether you agree those are legitimate complaints or not, you are essentially trying to slap them down for having an opinion counter to your own.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
The point I was making is still valid... Delta Rising is clearly not about instant-gratification, the increased difficulty of STF's (whether bugged or not) and the normalisation of dilithium rewards, along with this perceived lack of content to level, are all indicative of a move towards a longer leveling and gearing process...
You now, for a game design, that really doesn't sound like a lot of fun when you put it that way. Sounds more like a second job.
People still faceroll through the content. The only difference is the amount of time it takes to do it. The vast increase in that time is what people are complaining about.
At lot of the complaints I've heard revolves around that it was said that they're was enough content in DR to level a toon. Now I don't know if that was meant as an indication of being able from level from 50 - 60 or what. All I know is that I've run through all the new content in addition I've had to run an additional two patrol missions on elite, I've also been doffing every four hours and I'm still tens of thousands of XP short of hitting 60.
As for the STF's, people myself included have been asking for more CHALLENGING content for a while. Cryptic's response to this is to do the same has they did before, which was to add on a load more HP's to NPC's. They've made it harder yes, but more challenging? No. A run through Khitomer ground advanced yesterday revealed that all they've done is replaced all the Heavy tactical drones with Elites, meaning that one encounters no less than 17 of them now. I've yet to see what Elite versions of the queues will hold. All Cryptic has done is simply artificially padded out the time for which it takes to kill certain things, which essentially they've turned into yet another DPS race. Add in the new timed objectives and it amplifies this fact. As some people have already stated the increase in HP's will eventually be counteracted by power creep (So much for a certain Dev's comment that it will no longer be an issue) At most all they've done is set it back a few months a year at the most.
The Dev's stated that the revamp to the original rep system was to help lessen the gap between a fresh lvl 50 and a experienced one. Well from what I'm seeing they've just put that divide back in but moved it to a different area and level in the game.
Some of the issues people are complaining about have been raised since the content was available on tribble, yet they've shoved it through to Holodeck regardless. Its this constant release it then fix attitude along with the release it now and nerf it in few weeks, that has gotten most peoples backs up. Another MMO developer/Publisher (not mentioning which one) recently made the decision to push back the release date of their new expansion, because they've taken on board the comments and feedback from the testers and as such took the initiative to resolve these issues before going live. Their forums aren't raising hell about it, they've actively supporting the decision.
I often wonder more so with DR, whether any of the Dev team actually play or even understand how their own game really works.
No, its their job to figure out how to sell more stuff. Pleasing people is a rather engratiating goal, don't yah think (because being pleased is often about so much more than how well a particular product functions. See again the fact that we're talking about humans. )
they have to please their customers or they won't have any and no one to sell their stuff to, if people aren't happy with the game why would they bother to buy anything from it?
it's called feedback not whining...what as several people have pointed out that you're doing is whining. see the difference? one provides a valuable and required service to the developers, the other provides nothing except one person whining about others.
without feedback developers would never know what they're doing right or what they may be doing wrong, if players are happy or not and WHY. defending cryptic or attempting to by calling people who provide feedback whiners or wanting them to shut up does more damage to cryptic (if you actually succeeded) then any amount of negative feedback on the forums. so your defense of cryptic does more harm and zero good
think about that.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
Yes, yes, people who want instant gratification are bad, uh huh.
The problem is that there are two completely different timegates going on here. The first is the immediate timegate of how long enemies take to kill and missions take to complete. The second is the longer timegate of reputation progression and gaining refined dil to buy stuff.
Now, it's true that exceptionally good players could speedrun "elite" missions before, and understandably Cryptic wasn't happy about that. So they made the easiest change they could to slow things down. The problem is, the great players who were speeding through stuff before are still doing so- relatively speaking. While it takes them longer, the effect on them is limited, because ultimately the difference between a 90-second ISE and a 6-minute ISE is really pretty minor when the mission has an hour CD either way. And there's effectively no chance of failure.
But now the players who took 5 minutes before have a decent chance of failure and, when they succeed, just barely squeak by the 15-minute time limit. The players who took 10 minutes before with a modest chance of failure now have virtually no chance of success. They get their 10 "sorry you tried" marks and an hour CD before they can fail again. Basically all they can get now is the daily bonus and no more BNPs (or their equivalents).
This has introduced an effective timegate on advancement far in excess of the 20h rep timers and gated the resources for actual rep gear even more. And I fail to see how that was necessary.
The "instant gratification" I want is the satisfaction of making ships explode. I'm getting a lot less of that now. Or rather, it's taking so much longer now that it's not satisfying.
Mods, seriously you should make "compaining about complainers" threads part of the F.C.T.
They should simply close the forums and redirect to the FCT thread since basically anything and everything will be handled in that matter sooner or later XD
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Not everyone that complains is doing it out of spite. I think to classify all complainers as bad is wrong.
Just from my personal observation posters tend to fall into three groups.
Group 1 are people who hate the game and the company and are here to start fires. They don't even play the game anymore. No matter what Cryptic announces these people will find the bad in it. "Cryptic just announced a T6 Connie" " way to pander to the TOS fans, Cryptic"
Group 2 are players who criticize because they want the game to be better. They want to hold Cryptic to the quality that is Star Trek. They post bug reports in the proper sub forum. They don't attack the company or devs but point out where the game could be better.
Group 3 are the players who don't complain and enjoy the hell out of this game on all fronts. This one is very rare to see...not because the game is screwed up but because they're too busy having fun in game to be on the boards. You see these pop up when the game goes down...like it did last Thursday.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
So far, I'm leveling along perfectly well without a problem... Mind you, I'm actually doing multiple things and not just churning through the episodes...
This nicely sums up how disconnected OP is or any other developer apologist.
People are not using queues or story missions to level which in itself is a message about the current new content.
You are out of the loop of what's going on entirely even after it's been posted on the forum and word has spread in-game for some reason, we get this here message from you from the bermuda triangle "hey guys, I thought I'd go to the forums and put in some more work on getting forum mod because my fleet is ignoring me... again"
There is an atlantic ocean of complaints over the expansion and there is more or less consensus minus you 3-4 developer apologists - I almost said as per usual.
For example, why are all the new story missions that lore people were looking forward to all singleplayer?
Because it's easier to code? Yep.
The amount of actors they got involved that was nice but sadly completely overshadowed by 800 issues they decided to create.
/edit
ps. meaning a lot of these problems were completely unnecessary versus random bugs.
Random error in code sure but mostly all of DR problems were developer decisions
So, while venting in a thread such as this one is, about people complaining, is emotionally satisfying to some, I have to ask - Does it accomplish anything positive?
I do not think so. Given the opportunity, people will complain about not having anything to complain about. Posting threads about people complaining is just more complaining. It also draws far too much attention from the wrong crowd at the wrong time over the wrong subject.
I get irritated at some of the things people post here too. I'm not as successful as I'd like to be sometimes at thinking before I post as well. Most times, I'll type up a wall full of scathing sarcasm, biting humor and righteous indignation. Then, I'll go make a cup of coffee and stand out on my back porch for about five minutes or so. Puts everything back into the proper perspective for me. I come back inside, laugh at my own foibles while realizing STO is only a game and press <DEL> instead of <SEND>.
OP, there are far more important people on the planet to throw a hissy fit over. It isn't easy, but it is doable. You accord the complainers far too much importance and reward their behavior by starting a thread such as this one. Are you really sure you wanna do that??
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
So, while venting in a thread such as this one is, about people complaining, is emotionally satisfying to some, I have to ask - Does it accomplish anything positive?
I do not think so. Given the opportunity, people will complain about not having anything to complain about. Posting threads about people complaining is just more complaining. It also draws far too much attention from the wrong crowd at the wrong time over the wrong subject.
I get irritated at some of the things people post here too. I'm not as successful as I'd like to be sometimes at thinking before I post as well. Most times, I'll type up a wall full of scathing sarcasm, biting humor and righteous indignation. Then, I'll go make a cup of coffee and stand out on my back porch for about five minutes or so. Puts everything back into the proper perspective for me. I come back inside, laugh at my own foibles while realizing STO is only a game and press <DEL> instead of <SEND>.
OP, there are far more important people on the planet to throw a hissy fit over. It isn't easy, but it is doable. You accord the complainers far too much importance and reward their behavior by starting a thread such as this one. Are you really sure you wanna do that??
This. Honestly, you wanna avoid these people? Just set your web browser to block the forums. It does wonders for your blood pressure.
Oh I read - back when it was current if not mistaken, and it generally consists of opinions of what people would prefer to see in-game and how they would program opponents... It would qualify as constructive and conducive to improvement of STO however...
It is still a single thread (in the Tribble forums), it does not reflect so much of the negative commentary you see in general...
Now please, demonstrate how I am 'making stuff up'...
Please skim through General Discussion if you want examples...
The only point that really matters is this: Is starting a thread to complain about criticism, constructive or not, really contributing something productive?
The answer, if one is realistic, is a resounding no.
Thus, to be honest, what you are doing is every bit as troublesome as those so-called "crybabies" that demand resignations of developers, scream DOOM!, and act as asinine as possible. It's not productive, constructive, and tend to stir up more inflammatory posting on the boards.
The best policy is to simply ignore the things you don't like, and don't post.
This nicely sums up how disconnected OP is or any other developer apologist.
People are not using queues or story missions to level which in itself is a message about the current new content.
You are out of the loop of what's going on entirely even after it's been posted on the forum and word has spread in-game for some reason, we get this here message from you from the bermuda triangle "hey guys, I thought I'd go to the forums and put in some more work on getting forum mod because my fleet is ignoring me... again"
There is an atlantic ocean of complaints over the expansion and there is more or less consensus minus you 3-4 developer apologists - I almost said as per usual.
For example, why are all the new story missions that lore people were looking forward to all singleplayer?
Because it's easier to code? Yep.
The amount of actors they got involved that was nice but sadly completely overshadowed by 800 issues they decided to create.
/edit
ps. meaning a lot of these problems were completely unnecessary versus random bugs.
Random error in code sure but mostly all of DR problems were developer decisions
Well, one has to be careful about lumping all the complaints in together, no?
Is it too much to ask that folks be able to play through the story without having to go do some random grind to continue the story?
I remember I was doing /epicfacepalms like they were on sale at Wal-Mart until somebody reminded me about changing the setting to Elite instead of Normal. Then I was happily on my way playing through a story that I did not like, but I could at least appreciate was carefully crafted - all the nuances - everything coming together, that was well done imho...regardless of not caring the least about a Voyager based storyline. Different folks enjoy different things, yadda - yadda - yadda.
But then, just shy of 59 and the final mission...ran into a speedbump again.
The momentum of the story that had been carrying me along - serving as a decent distraction from everything else going on with the expansion...was gone.
Wham bam...I've been a complete douche...an TRIBBLE...today with some of my posts. It's no excuse for being an TRIBBLE, but wham bam - momentum gone, distraction gone, just left with all the TRIBBLE and it's just oozing out of almost everything that I'm posting since hitting that speedbump.
I haven't played that toon since...just been doing some DOFFing on other toons while trying to ignore the mess that is DR.
Comments
Perhaps be relevant to the OP, otherwise I am sure you will find a thread to accommodate you thoughts.
ROFL. You did all that and still it wasn't enough? I guess they wanted to copy Perfect World (the MMO) where quests would give you maybe 25% of the level and you had to farm 1000's of mobs for the rest.
Just trying to point out that many of these complaints are legit.
New R&D gear sucks save 1 or 2 consoles and other than traits it just gives you the ooh shiny stuff. I run mk12 VR rep gear aside from my Mk14 UR solonae deflector on my R'Mor and do just fine. Shields are an issue but my part gen build steadily eats away hulls so 650k hull is like 2 mins of part gen hull eating.
People still faceroll through the content. The only difference is the amount of time it takes to do it. The vast increase in that time is what people are complaining about.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
My mate upgraded a ship this morning and had a fair amount of expensive gear vanish, there isn't enough content or enough skill points for the content to level properly even running it on Elite, not to mention how expensive the upgrade system is (and buggy), just to name a few things.
I see those as legitimate complaints, and frankly painting everyone with a brush by saying they're 'whining' is rather pathetic, because whether you agree those are legitimate complaints or not, you are essentially trying to slap them down for having an opinion counter to your own.
You now, for a game design, that really doesn't sound like a lot of fun when you put it that way. Sounds more like a second job.
At lot of the complaints I've heard revolves around that it was said that they're was enough content in DR to level a toon. Now I don't know if that was meant as an indication of being able from level from 50 - 60 or what. All I know is that I've run through all the new content in addition I've had to run an additional two patrol missions on elite, I've also been doffing every four hours and I'm still tens of thousands of XP short of hitting 60.
As for the STF's, people myself included have been asking for more CHALLENGING content for a while. Cryptic's response to this is to do the same has they did before, which was to add on a load more HP's to NPC's. They've made it harder yes, but more challenging? No. A run through Khitomer ground advanced yesterday revealed that all they've done is replaced all the Heavy tactical drones with Elites, meaning that one encounters no less than 17 of them now. I've yet to see what Elite versions of the queues will hold. All Cryptic has done is simply artificially padded out the time for which it takes to kill certain things, which essentially they've turned into yet another DPS race. Add in the new timed objectives and it amplifies this fact. As some people have already stated the increase in HP's will eventually be counteracted by power creep (So much for a certain Dev's comment that it will no longer be an issue) At most all they've done is set it back a few months a year at the most.
The Dev's stated that the revamp to the original rep system was to help lessen the gap between a fresh lvl 50 and a experienced one. Well from what I'm seeing they've just put that divide back in but moved it to a different area and level in the game.
Some of the issues people are complaining about have been raised since the content was available on tribble, yet they've shoved it through to Holodeck regardless. Its this constant release it then fix attitude along with the release it now and nerf it in few weeks, that has gotten most peoples backs up. Another MMO developer/Publisher (not mentioning which one) recently made the decision to push back the release date of their new expansion, because they've taken on board the comments and feedback from the testers and as such took the initiative to resolve these issues before going live. Their forums aren't raising hell about it, they've actively supporting the decision.
I often wonder more so with DR, whether any of the Dev team actually play or even understand how their own game really works.
they have to please their customers or they won't have any and no one to sell their stuff to, if people aren't happy with the game why would they bother to buy anything from it?
@imruined
it's called feedback not whining...what as several people have pointed out that you're doing is whining. see the difference? one provides a valuable and required service to the developers, the other provides nothing except one person whining about others.
without feedback developers would never know what they're doing right or what they may be doing wrong, if players are happy or not and WHY. defending cryptic or attempting to by calling people who provide feedback whiners or wanting them to shut up does more damage to cryptic (if you actually succeeded) then any amount of negative feedback on the forums. so your defense of cryptic does more harm and zero good
think about that.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
The problem is that there are two completely different timegates going on here. The first is the immediate timegate of how long enemies take to kill and missions take to complete. The second is the longer timegate of reputation progression and gaining refined dil to buy stuff.
Now, it's true that exceptionally good players could speedrun "elite" missions before, and understandably Cryptic wasn't happy about that. So they made the easiest change they could to slow things down. The problem is, the great players who were speeding through stuff before are still doing so- relatively speaking. While it takes them longer, the effect on them is limited, because ultimately the difference between a 90-second ISE and a 6-minute ISE is really pretty minor when the mission has an hour CD either way. And there's effectively no chance of failure.
But now the players who took 5 minutes before have a decent chance of failure and, when they succeed, just barely squeak by the 15-minute time limit. The players who took 10 minutes before with a modest chance of failure now have virtually no chance of success. They get their 10 "sorry you tried" marks and an hour CD before they can fail again. Basically all they can get now is the daily bonus and no more BNPs (or their equivalents).
This has introduced an effective timegate on advancement far in excess of the 20h rep timers and gated the resources for actual rep gear even more. And I fail to see how that was necessary.
The "instant gratification" I want is the satisfaction of making ships explode. I'm getting a lot less of that now. Or rather, it's taking so much longer now that it's not satisfying.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
im with you i love when ppl complain about ppl complaining got to love them CDers
system Lord Baal is dead
They should simply close the forums and redirect to the FCT thread since basically anything and everything will be handled in that matter sooner or later XD
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Just from my personal observation posters tend to fall into three groups.
Group 1 are people who hate the game and the company and are here to start fires. They don't even play the game anymore. No matter what Cryptic announces these people will find the bad in it. "Cryptic just announced a T6 Connie" " way to pander to the TOS fans, Cryptic"
Group 2 are players who criticize because they want the game to be better. They want to hold Cryptic to the quality that is Star Trek. They post bug reports in the proper sub forum. They don't attack the company or devs but point out where the game could be better.
Group 3 are the players who don't complain and enjoy the hell out of this game on all fronts. This one is very rare to see...not because the game is screwed up but because they're too busy having fun in game to be on the boards. You see these pop up when the game goes down...like it did last Thursday.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The wannabe Cryptic/PWE employee.
They defend at all cost no matter what BS Cryptic/PWE pulls.
Lol.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
I would actually support this even though I detest the F.C.T.
This nicely sums up how disconnected OP is or any other developer apologist.
People are not using queues or story missions to level which in itself is a message about the current new content.
You are out of the loop of what's going on entirely even after it's been posted on the forum and word has spread in-game for some reason, we get this here message from you from the bermuda triangle "hey guys, I thought I'd go to the forums and put in some more work on getting forum mod because my fleet is ignoring me... again"
There is an atlantic ocean of complaints over the expansion and there is more or less consensus minus you 3-4 developer apologists - I almost said as per usual.
For example, why are all the new story missions that lore people were looking forward to all singleplayer?
Because it's easier to code? Yep.
The amount of actors they got involved that was nice but sadly completely overshadowed by 800 issues they decided to create.
/edit
ps. meaning a lot of these problems were completely unnecessary versus random bugs.
Random error in code sure but mostly all of DR problems were developer decisions
I do not think so. Given the opportunity, people will complain about not having anything to complain about. Posting threads about people complaining is just more complaining. It also draws far too much attention from the wrong crowd at the wrong time over the wrong subject.
I get irritated at some of the things people post here too. I'm not as successful as I'd like to be sometimes at thinking before I post as well. Most times, I'll type up a wall full of scathing sarcasm, biting humor and righteous indignation. Then, I'll go make a cup of coffee and stand out on my back porch for about five minutes or so. Puts everything back into the proper perspective for me. I come back inside, laugh at my own foibles while realizing STO is only a game and press <DEL> instead of <SEND>.
OP, there are far more important people on the planet to throw a hissy fit over. It isn't easy, but it is doable. You accord the complainers far too much importance and reward their behavior by starting a thread such as this one. Are you really sure you wanna do that??
This. Honestly, you wanna avoid these people? Just set your web browser to block the forums. It does wonders for your blood pressure.
The only point that really matters is this: Is starting a thread to complain about criticism, constructive or not, really contributing something productive?
The answer, if one is realistic, is a resounding no.
Thus, to be honest, what you are doing is every bit as troublesome as those so-called "crybabies" that demand resignations of developers, scream DOOM!, and act as asinine as possible. It's not productive, constructive, and tend to stir up more inflammatory posting on the boards.
The best policy is to simply ignore the things you don't like, and don't post.
________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
So, about the comment on the top... Can I roll my eyes yet?
Well, one has to be careful about lumping all the complaints in together, no?
Is it too much to ask that folks be able to play through the story without having to go do some random grind to continue the story?
I remember I was doing /epicfacepalms like they were on sale at Wal-Mart until somebody reminded me about changing the setting to Elite instead of Normal. Then I was happily on my way playing through a story that I did not like, but I could at least appreciate was carefully crafted - all the nuances - everything coming together, that was well done imho...regardless of not caring the least about a Voyager based storyline. Different folks enjoy different things, yadda - yadda - yadda.
But then, just shy of 59 and the final mission...ran into a speedbump again.
The momentum of the story that had been carrying me along - serving as a decent distraction from everything else going on with the expansion...was gone.
Wham bam...I've been a complete douche...an TRIBBLE...today with some of my posts. It's no excuse for being an TRIBBLE, but wham bam - momentum gone, distraction gone, just left with all the TRIBBLE and it's just oozing out of almost everything that I'm posting since hitting that speedbump.
I haven't played that toon since...just been doing some DOFFing on other toons while trying to ignore the mess that is DR.
edit: damn typo...#ragetyping