Because the Jenolan dyson sphere didn't have the stuff cryptic wanted for Season 8, but it was a good concept and cool to throw in anyway as an iconic launching off point for Delta Rising (that also gave some good shots for season 9 and 9.5 that didn't obligate cryptic to any definite look or content for stuff in DR).
Basically, because it worked out that way.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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Why does the United States need 10 aircraft carriers...
Because a Carrier can only be in one place at one time. And that's what these things basically are. They're Iconian Carrier Jumpships.
They jump into the target area and release the ships within them.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
if u follow the story the sphere's are everywhere in the galaxy and 2 have been found they are like bases/and portals for iconians (i think) to easily transport ships all over the galaxy to where they are needed while the smaller portals are used for troops and equipments
Wouldn't it have been much more simple to have just one sphere located where the Jenolan one is now?
(The Voth content area would be in one part of it and the Delta Command/Space Door would be in another part of the gigantic thing.)
that would make no sense that all the time we have been in the first sphere we hadn't realised it led to the delta quadrant, it made perfect sense story wise to have a gateway to the second sphere.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Now can we talk about the science behind dyson spheres? Are those things BS or what? :P
Technically, yes they are. The basic principle behind them would work (all you are doing is creating a massive solar panel around a star) but structurally it would fail on the grounds that the gravitational field would cancel itself out and the Sphere would start floating (in literal zero gravity) and crash into the star. As a result, you'd need something a bit less balanced to capture your energy. Admittedly, that might explain why the Jenolan Dyson Sphere has a massive hole in the side of it, to keep the gravitational field stable.
As for the topic at hand, one is in the "northern" part of the Delta Quadrant, the other in the "southern" part. It's definitely not clear from the in-game map but there are tens of thousands of light years between the two spheres, and it took Voyager three years to travel that distance on a regular warp engine.
In-game, this may function as a quick transport eventually when a further sector block is added to the "south" of the existing ones with the rest of the Voyager season 7 stuff, as the Solanae Sphere would be located there, so you can quickly "jump" between the two sector blocks without needing to make the trek back and forth.
The problem isn't just with Dyson Spheres in general, it's also with the specific type we saw in Star Trek. It's a Dyson Shell, a completely enclosed, seamless structure around a star, and even worse, it's extraordinarily thick.
The Solanae or Jenolan Dyson Sphere would require every shred of mass from half a dozen solar systems to make. If you had a perfect energy to matter replicator, which ST apparently doesn't because they still actually have goods economies for things like dilithium and every single other thing Voyager ever traded or scavenged for, then the energy output of a mere single star would be freaking chump change next to the technological might and energy output of a civilisation that could even think about building a Jenolan Sphere, let alone actually do it. TWICE.
Overcoming all the engineering problems of building a Jenolan Sphere would put you on a level of "building this thing is pointless". You, in the very least, can render entire solar systems down into usable material, have the materials science for the construct not to instantly shred itself under the stresses of rotation to have appropriate gravity (although it holding together while simply sitting there would still have Q lift an eyebrow at your achievement), and be able to safely radiate out all the waste heat generated from an entire star and civilisation.
Basically, having mentioned Q, anyone who could actually build one of these things would be so powerful that from our perspective there would be no difference between them and the Q. The difference would be academic. You are simply meaningless in both cases, you're so petty and small that your existence to them is like us trying to find the Higgs Boson with the Large Hadron Collider.
I don't think anyone in Cryptic really, truly understood what they did when it comes to these Dyson Spheres, and in just blithely tossing in another one. In this case, however, I can't blame them too much. Everything about a Dyson Sphere qualifies for the actual meaning of 'awesome', which is something that inspires both wonder and *fear*. It's the kind of ludicrous immensity that's so far beyond what people can grasp that they just stop thinking about it. And then....bam. Someone just flicks some ink and all of a sudden there's an exact copy of the most singularly awesome achievement that could ever be aspired to. A wonder that should, by all rights, make you break down and cry at its mere, godlike existence, to leave you in existential despair at how tiny and insignificant you now feel, but paradoxically like a God just for being a part of the galactic fauna that made this thing.
Lets make this absolutely, crystal clear: If the Iconians could build even a single one of these, there would be no conflict with anyone in the entire galaxy who isn't an abstract 'omnipotent' like the Q. A conflict suggests you can in any way oppose them.
The original episode with one of these Dyson Spheres never named the creators, and with good reason. Attributing them to the Iconians, who we are now actually fighting, is beyond ludicrousness. It cannot be understated how utterly stupid this is. They would not simply squash us, they would not even *notice* they had squashed us, for all that our objections to their activities would matter.
You people think that Dyson Spheres are out of control???
What if the Borg built a super-mega-ultra sized Borg Command Ship that was powered by THREE stars? :eek:
Lolz aside, it does kinda' make sense to have 2 Dyson Spheres. After all, if the entire galaxy is fighting you, you'll need to have several super-powerful carriers to help you out. A giant Dyson Sphere with unlimited power... makes sense.
Though, lets ask ourselves why only 2 Dyson Spheres? Couldn't there be several more? Who says that the 2 Dyson Spheres don't have several more Iconian Gates (one at the Jenolan Star's sun control station, anyone?) that lead to MORE Dyson Spheres?
Winning.
It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Multiple sphere makes sense from a military standpoint. I believe they built multiple spheres for the same reason major militaries have multiple bases. They are strategic for one reason or another. You can garrison, deploy, support, store, and create supplies. And they control entire system, as they have control of the star.
Lets make this absolutely, crystal clear: If the Iconians could build even a single one of these, there would be no conflict with anyone in the entire galaxy who isn't an abstract 'omnipotent' like the Q. A conflict suggests you can in any way oppose them.
That depends, there's a few different problems but we know the Iconians have that level of tech anyway.
For example:
1. How do you get the appropriate materials (solution is fairly simple, even the Federation have replicator technology, might mean a huge amount of waste, but certainly not impossible).
2. How do you program these replicators to build the sphere (the spheres could very well have a repeating basic design that even a modern super computer could probably cope with given enough memory).
3. How do you get the material to the replicators in the first place (very obvious here, Iconians have artificial wormhole technology in the form of their gateways so raw materials can be taken exceptionally easily).
4. It would take a very long time to build (and it certainly would, but the Iconians had millennia to build these spheres, and they could certainly be working on more than one at a time if they wanted to, especially if the process could be automated).
From this (as far as I can see in terms of technology) there is literally only one thing beyond Federation tech of 2410 and that's the artificial wormholes (and obviously the time frames required to build it which were not an issue to a race that ruled the whole galaxy).
It would be another thing entirely if the spheres just popped up overnight or something ridiculous like that, but if it took thousands of years using regular Federation level technology in addition to the gateways then I can't see why not.
That depends, there's a few different problems but we know the Iconians have that level of tech anyway.
For example:
1. How do you get the appropriate materials (solution is fairly simple, even the Federation have replicator technology, might mean a huge amount of waste, but certainly not impossible).
2. How do you program these replicators to build the sphere (the spheres could very well have a repeating basic design that even a modern super computer could probably cope with given enough memory).
3. How do you get the material to the replicators in the first place (very obvious here, Iconians have artificial wormhole technology in the form of their gateways so raw materials can be taken exceptionally easily).
4. It would take a very long time to build (and it certainly would, but the Iconians had millennia to build these spheres, and they could certainly be working on more than one at a time if they wanted to, especially if the process could be automated).
From this (as far as I can see in terms of technology) there is literally only one thing beyond Federation tech of 2410 and that's the artificial wormholes (and obviously the time frames required to build it which were not an issue to a race that ruled the whole galaxy).
It would be another thing entirely if the spheres just popped up overnight or something ridiculous like that, but if it took thousands of years using regular Federation level technology in addition to the gateways then I can't see why not.
Uh....no. Not at all. Not in the slightest.
Like I said, even putting such a shell together and having it just sit there is extraordinary. It requires a level of materials science and engineering that makes everything the Federation has ever done, actually everything we've seen in Star Trek that isn't the Dyson Sphere, all of it put together, look like a fly sneezing on a beach and calling it a sandcastle. This monster is a stellar object that makes our star look weedy. Putting it together is not a case of just sticking bits of mass together and blammo, one Dyson Sphere. Dyson himself commented on the episode 'Relics' as scientific "nonsense" despite being good TV.
This damnable thing has its own massive gravity well thanks to being comprised of a bunch of solar systems on its own, a gravity well exerting horrific pressures across the entire structure from all sorts of directions because it's hollow....on top of the star itself also wanting to pull it all straight inward. A star also trying not to be ripped in every direction around it.
Then you have to spin the thing so it has gravity (at least along the equator). Now, someone can correct me, but generating enough spin to have 1G on the inside surface requires any given point on the outside to be moving, here's where my memory gets a little fuzzy, either almost the speed of light, or actually straight up faster than light. I don't think we need to go into an explanation of what kind of stresses that will also impart on this godlike act of stellar engineering, and how ludicrously awesome you have to be to deal with it.
If anyone in Star Trek had the materials science to build this, they'd be entirely unconcerned about every weapon we have ever seen in Star Trek....well, barring Q weapons. Obliterating stars in another dimension as mere collateral damage is always an inconvenience for the inhabitants. Photon torpedoes with their 64 megaton warhead might as well be replaced by a raspberry. It would literally make no difference to the Sphere-building guys on the other end.
Plus, thermodynamics is a thing. A thing which hates you, because it wants to melt your entire damn sphere, and it always wins in the end. All that energy everyone thinks is free from the star in the middle is gonna have to go somewhere, and since thermodynamics hates you and your face, it's eventually going to heat up the inside of that shell like a gigantic cooker. Have fun radiating all that off. Now, if you've got such a crazy ability to regulate energy and stop this project turning into the universe's biggest BBQ event....hahaha! Oh my God you have no idea how completely meaningless a direct energy weapon is going to be. Like, what? Really? You're trying this? Hey, everyone to the portside windows, this is adorable.
And lastly....200,000 years to build this thing is way, way, way less than it should really take. It's another notch on the Iconian belt of **** you. And as if everything wasn't enough, they gave them the ability to teleport them around. An entire Dyson Sphere. Teleported. A Dyson Sphere. Like....whaaaaaaaat.
Hell, if they can move these things they can deal with the Feds, Klingons and Romulans by literally ramming every single system they own.
Hell, if they can move these things they can deal with the Feds, Klingons and Romulans by literally ramming every single system they own.
They could certainly build it, doesn't mean the thing would work afterwards.
The gravity problem is certainly another one, but another explanation exists and that is artificial gravity generators. Earth's had them since the 1990s in-universe apparently. The Iconians will have had them for much longer than that, so instantly most of your problems there go out the window in terms of generating or removing gravity without any spinning required.
The time frames are really the only question. I wouldn't like to think how long it takes to build a 281 quadrillion kilometres squared are sphere. If the Iconians never got to use it and the automated process had been left ticking over for 200,000 years then we are looking at rebuilding the surface of the Earth 8-9 times per day. If you can rule over the whole Milky Way (and possibly beyond) I'm sure you can gather enough equipment to manage that sort of construction rate.
Why they don't just ram it into Earth and Qu'Nos though is another matter of course. I would assume (and hope the writers of the game address this in some way) that the Iconians don't simply want to destroy the Alpha/Beta quadrant powers but are after something else entirely.
Of course, that's assuming it was the Iconians who built it and not something much older that the Iconians hijacked and converted to their own use.
Like I said, even putting such a shell together and having it just sit there is extraordinary. It requires a level of materials science and engineering that makes everything the Federation has ever done, actually everything we've seen in Star Trek that isn't the Dyson Sphere, all of it put together, look like a fly sneezing on a beach and calling it a sandcastle. This monster is a stellar object that makes our star look weedy. Putting it together is not a case of just sticking bits of mass together and blammo, one Dyson Sphere. Dyson himself commented on the episode 'Relics' as scientific "nonsense" despite being good TV.
This damnable thing has its own massive gravity well thanks to being comprised of a bunch of solar systems on its own, a gravity well exerting horrific pressures across the entire structure from all sorts of directions because it's hollow....on top of the star itself also wanting to pull it all straight inward. A star also trying not to be ripped in every direction around it.
Then you have to spin the thing so it has gravity (at least along the equator). Now, someone can correct me, but generating enough spin to have 1G on the inside surface requires any given point on the outside to be moving, here's where my memory gets a little fuzzy, either almost the speed of light, or actually straight up faster than light. I don't think we need to go into an explanation of what kind of stresses that will also impart on this godlike act of stellar engineering, and how ludicrously awesome you have to be to deal with it.
If anyone in Star Trek had the materials science to build this, they'd be entirely unconcerned about every weapon we have ever seen in Star Trek....well, barring Q weapons. Obliterating stars in another dimension as mere collateral damage is always an inconvenience for the inhabitants. Photon torpedoes with their 64 megaton warhead might as well be replaced by a raspberry. It would literally make no difference to the Sphere-building guys on the other end.
Plus, thermodynamics is a thing. A thing which hates you, because it wants to melt your entire damn sphere, and it always wins in the end. All that energy everyone thinks is free from the star in the middle is gonna have to go somewhere, and since thermodynamics hates you and your face, it's eventually going to heat up the inside of that shell like a gigantic cooker. Have fun radiating all that off. Now, if you've got such a crazy ability to regulate energy and stop this project turning into the universe's biggest BBQ event....hahaha! Oh my God you have no idea how completely meaningless a direct energy weapon is going to be. Like, what? Really? You're trying this? Hey, everyone to the portside windows, this is adorable.
And lastly....200,000 years to build this thing is way, way, way less than it should really take. It's another notch on the Iconian belt of **** you. And as if everything wasn't enough, they gave them the ability to teleport them around. An entire Dyson Sphere. Teleported. A Dyson Sphere. Like....whaaaaaaaat.
Hell, if they can move these things they can deal with the Feds, Klingons and Romulans by literally ramming every single system they own.
You can blame TNG for having a Dyson Sphere for the 2 Dyson Spheres STO has. It is the same premise for alien life. If we exist, then it is very likely for another alien race exists.
As far as the technological limitations for developing a Dyson Sphere goes, in order to build a Dyson Sphere, a civilization has to be very advanced so issues like spinning the sphere to create gravity is non-existent. The Federation has artificial gravity so any civilization that can build a Dyson Sphere has a technology similar to it to generate gravity. It is ridiculous to assume that alien races are governed by the same limitations we are.
There are numerous methods to create a Dyson Sphere. You could use the hard method where the entire Sphere is built over time and completely unusable until it is done or the simple method where sections of the Dyson Sphere are created and made self-sustainable. So each section would create its own food, atmosphere, and other needs and be completely isolated from the other sections. An added benefit is that the section is operational as soon as it is done instead of waiting eons for the rest of the sphere to be built. So if one section is destroyed, then the entire sphere is not destroyed in the process. The 24th Century Federation could actually start creating this type of Dyson Sphere if they wanted to.
Comments
two sets of open gateways is why. try to remember how we got to each in the first place.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Basically, because it worked out that way.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Because a Carrier can only be in one place at one time. And that's what these things basically are. They're Iconian Carrier Jumpships.
They jump into the target area and release the ships within them.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
that would make no sense that all the time we have been in the first sphere we hadn't realised it led to the delta quadrant, it made perfect sense story wise to have a gateway to the second sphere.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Technically, yes they are. The basic principle behind them would work (all you are doing is creating a massive solar panel around a star) but structurally it would fail on the grounds that the gravitational field would cancel itself out and the Sphere would start floating (in literal zero gravity) and crash into the star. As a result, you'd need something a bit less balanced to capture your energy. Admittedly, that might explain why the Jenolan Dyson Sphere has a massive hole in the side of it, to keep the gravitational field stable.
As for the topic at hand, one is in the "northern" part of the Delta Quadrant, the other in the "southern" part. It's definitely not clear from the in-game map but there are tens of thousands of light years between the two spheres, and it took Voyager three years to travel that distance on a regular warp engine.
In-game, this may function as a quick transport eventually when a further sector block is added to the "south" of the existing ones with the rest of the Voyager season 7 stuff, as the Solanae Sphere would be located there, so you can quickly "jump" between the two sector blocks without needing to make the trek back and forth.
The Solanae or Jenolan Dyson Sphere would require every shred of mass from half a dozen solar systems to make. If you had a perfect energy to matter replicator, which ST apparently doesn't because they still actually have goods economies for things like dilithium and every single other thing Voyager ever traded or scavenged for, then the energy output of a mere single star would be freaking chump change next to the technological might and energy output of a civilisation that could even think about building a Jenolan Sphere, let alone actually do it. TWICE.
Overcoming all the engineering problems of building a Jenolan Sphere would put you on a level of "building this thing is pointless". You, in the very least, can render entire solar systems down into usable material, have the materials science for the construct not to instantly shred itself under the stresses of rotation to have appropriate gravity (although it holding together while simply sitting there would still have Q lift an eyebrow at your achievement), and be able to safely radiate out all the waste heat generated from an entire star and civilisation.
Basically, having mentioned Q, anyone who could actually build one of these things would be so powerful that from our perspective there would be no difference between them and the Q. The difference would be academic. You are simply meaningless in both cases, you're so petty and small that your existence to them is like us trying to find the Higgs Boson with the Large Hadron Collider.
I don't think anyone in Cryptic really, truly understood what they did when it comes to these Dyson Spheres, and in just blithely tossing in another one. In this case, however, I can't blame them too much. Everything about a Dyson Sphere qualifies for the actual meaning of 'awesome', which is something that inspires both wonder and *fear*. It's the kind of ludicrous immensity that's so far beyond what people can grasp that they just stop thinking about it. And then....bam. Someone just flicks some ink and all of a sudden there's an exact copy of the most singularly awesome achievement that could ever be aspired to. A wonder that should, by all rights, make you break down and cry at its mere, godlike existence, to leave you in existential despair at how tiny and insignificant you now feel, but paradoxically like a God just for being a part of the galactic fauna that made this thing.
Lets make this absolutely, crystal clear: If the Iconians could build even a single one of these, there would be no conflict with anyone in the entire galaxy who isn't an abstract 'omnipotent' like the Q. A conflict suggests you can in any way oppose them.
The original episode with one of these Dyson Spheres never named the creators, and with good reason. Attributing them to the Iconians, who we are now actually fighting, is beyond ludicrousness. It cannot be understated how utterly stupid this is. They would not simply squash us, they would not even *notice* they had squashed us, for all that our objections to their activities would matter.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=590121
What if the Borg built a super-mega-ultra sized Borg Command Ship that was powered by THREE stars? :eek:
Lolz aside, it does kinda' make sense to have 2 Dyson Spheres. After all, if the entire galaxy is fighting you, you'll need to have several super-powerful carriers to help you out. A giant Dyson Sphere with unlimited power... makes sense.
Though, lets ask ourselves why only 2 Dyson Spheres? Couldn't there be several more? Who says that the 2 Dyson Spheres don't have several more Iconian Gates (one at the Jenolan Star's sun control station, anyone?) that lead to MORE Dyson Spheres?
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
*shrug* My two ECs, anyway.
That depends, there's a few different problems but we know the Iconians have that level of tech anyway.
For example:
1. How do you get the appropriate materials (solution is fairly simple, even the Federation have replicator technology, might mean a huge amount of waste, but certainly not impossible).
2. How do you program these replicators to build the sphere (the spheres could very well have a repeating basic design that even a modern super computer could probably cope with given enough memory).
3. How do you get the material to the replicators in the first place (very obvious here, Iconians have artificial wormhole technology in the form of their gateways so raw materials can be taken exceptionally easily).
4. It would take a very long time to build (and it certainly would, but the Iconians had millennia to build these spheres, and they could certainly be working on more than one at a time if they wanted to, especially if the process could be automated).
From this (as far as I can see in terms of technology) there is literally only one thing beyond Federation tech of 2410 and that's the artificial wormholes (and obviously the time frames required to build it which were not an issue to a race that ruled the whole galaxy).
It would be another thing entirely if the spheres just popped up overnight or something ridiculous like that, but if it took thousands of years using regular Federation level technology in addition to the gateways then I can't see why not.
Uh....no. Not at all. Not in the slightest.
Like I said, even putting such a shell together and having it just sit there is extraordinary. It requires a level of materials science and engineering that makes everything the Federation has ever done, actually everything we've seen in Star Trek that isn't the Dyson Sphere, all of it put together, look like a fly sneezing on a beach and calling it a sandcastle. This monster is a stellar object that makes our star look weedy. Putting it together is not a case of just sticking bits of mass together and blammo, one Dyson Sphere. Dyson himself commented on the episode 'Relics' as scientific "nonsense" despite being good TV.
This damnable thing has its own massive gravity well thanks to being comprised of a bunch of solar systems on its own, a gravity well exerting horrific pressures across the entire structure from all sorts of directions because it's hollow....on top of the star itself also wanting to pull it all straight inward. A star also trying not to be ripped in every direction around it.
Then you have to spin the thing so it has gravity (at least along the equator). Now, someone can correct me, but generating enough spin to have 1G on the inside surface requires any given point on the outside to be moving, here's where my memory gets a little fuzzy, either almost the speed of light, or actually straight up faster than light. I don't think we need to go into an explanation of what kind of stresses that will also impart on this godlike act of stellar engineering, and how ludicrously awesome you have to be to deal with it.
If anyone in Star Trek had the materials science to build this, they'd be entirely unconcerned about every weapon we have ever seen in Star Trek....well, barring Q weapons. Obliterating stars in another dimension as mere collateral damage is always an inconvenience for the inhabitants. Photon torpedoes with their 64 megaton warhead might as well be replaced by a raspberry. It would literally make no difference to the Sphere-building guys on the other end.
Plus, thermodynamics is a thing. A thing which hates you, because it wants to melt your entire damn sphere, and it always wins in the end. All that energy everyone thinks is free from the star in the middle is gonna have to go somewhere, and since thermodynamics hates you and your face, it's eventually going to heat up the inside of that shell like a gigantic cooker. Have fun radiating all that off. Now, if you've got such a crazy ability to regulate energy and stop this project turning into the universe's biggest BBQ event....hahaha! Oh my God you have no idea how completely meaningless a direct energy weapon is going to be. Like, what? Really? You're trying this? Hey, everyone to the portside windows, this is adorable.
And lastly....200,000 years to build this thing is way, way, way less than it should really take. It's another notch on the Iconian belt of **** you. And as if everything wasn't enough, they gave them the ability to teleport them around. An entire Dyson Sphere. Teleported. A Dyson Sphere. Like....whaaaaaaaat.
Hell, if they can move these things they can deal with the Feds, Klingons and Romulans by literally ramming every single system they own.
They could certainly build it, doesn't mean the thing would work afterwards.
The gravity problem is certainly another one, but another explanation exists and that is artificial gravity generators. Earth's had them since the 1990s in-universe apparently. The Iconians will have had them for much longer than that, so instantly most of your problems there go out the window in terms of generating or removing gravity without any spinning required.
The time frames are really the only question. I wouldn't like to think how long it takes to build a 281 quadrillion kilometres squared are sphere. If the Iconians never got to use it and the automated process had been left ticking over for 200,000 years then we are looking at rebuilding the surface of the Earth 8-9 times per day. If you can rule over the whole Milky Way (and possibly beyond) I'm sure you can gather enough equipment to manage that sort of construction rate.
Why they don't just ram it into Earth and Qu'Nos though is another matter of course. I would assume (and hope the writers of the game address this in some way) that the Iconians don't simply want to destroy the Alpha/Beta quadrant powers but are after something else entirely.
Of course, that's assuming it was the Iconians who built it and not something much older that the Iconians hijacked and converted to their own use.
You can blame TNG for having a Dyson Sphere for the 2 Dyson Spheres STO has. It is the same premise for alien life. If we exist, then it is very likely for another alien race exists.
As far as the technological limitations for developing a Dyson Sphere goes, in order to build a Dyson Sphere, a civilization has to be very advanced so issues like spinning the sphere to create gravity is non-existent. The Federation has artificial gravity so any civilization that can build a Dyson Sphere has a technology similar to it to generate gravity. It is ridiculous to assume that alien races are governed by the same limitations we are.
There are numerous methods to create a Dyson Sphere. You could use the hard method where the entire Sphere is built over time and completely unusable until it is done or the simple method where sections of the Dyson Sphere are created and made self-sustainable. So each section would create its own food, atmosphere, and other needs and be completely isolated from the other sections. An added benefit is that the section is operational as soon as it is done instead of waiting eons for the rest of the sphere to be built. So if one section is destroyed, then the entire sphere is not destroyed in the process. The 24th Century Federation could actually start creating this type of Dyson Sphere if they wanted to.