My rom-kdf/sci with her Mirror Guardian takes a bit of patience. Still tweeking a lot of things with her. Though, as long as I don't forget and start tanking... :eek: She does alright. Though she seems to be a one-shot magnet.
I was working that approach for a while, until I learned just how good a Scimitar is in sci-roles. Grav well, plasmonic leech console, and an emphasis on AOE attacks and you have a ship that uses science-functions to their most devistating potential thanks to an infusion of conventional firepower. In fact I like this build more than the even more conventional application of a Tac-FED-Rom to a Scimitar. You could go the route of maximum DPS but without those other functions (that other strategies provide) you just don't have something that's quite as usable.
That's the crux of playing for fun in this game. Realize "hey, there's the question of the biggest numbers, but then there's the additional question of making numbers into fun gameplay" and the resulting (and very natural to make) builds will offer a much richer and entertaining version of STO that often delves into other aspects than mere damage.
Note: a scim doesn't help the damage magnet problem. I don't think any strategy based on getting every single NPC in front of you into a tiny ball of mutually exploding goodness can get around that one.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
However due to DR and the fact that the game really is so DPS centric, they are giving up their Fleet Nebula.
The T5U version will still only have the 2 tac slots, and to be honest, the both of us feel like its just going to be left behind, upgraded or not.
Why would someone do that unless they wanted to try the new T6 BOff type?
The Nebula is great. You don't need Tac Slots on a really good Sci. You want Sci Slots full of Particle Generators because those are what gets your damage/shutdowns. The Fleet Neb has... four, doesn't it? And the same with Engineering? That is a durable, powerful ship. It's better than the T6 version.
Energy Siphon 1 sucks what, 15-21 power? Add a tyken 1 for another 10-14?
How drain resistant are the elite mobs?
Plus Charged Particle Burst, Tachyon Beam, Target Subsystem, Viral Matrix
Polaron Beams, Tricobalts (especially Mines) shutdown enemies with a rift, Chroniton torps, Temporal Warfare Set (High Yield TDD will apply chroniton debuffs to every enemy that it passed on the way to the target and will spawn a rift on impact that chronitons and sub-nukes),
There is a DOff that adds Energy Drain to Tractor Beam, one that does it to Aceton Beam, a Tyken's Rift Spawner (like the GW DOff), one that adds Subsystem Shutdown to Energy Siphon
Or did they get secret buffs making them a lot less weak to drains and resist decreases?
We got Buffs. The Science R&D Level 15 Trait gives you... I think that it is 25% Critical Hit Rate for Science Skills for every 100 Particle Generators that you have. People running Sci Ships (for sci powers) ought to have around 200 PG.
And then the normal Sci Captain Traits help out as well.
so, until someone presents a video where there are full sci's doing their magic and attack pattern beta/delta are used i consider the current screaming for nerfs hyperbole.-...
its easy to criticise it actually.
because its an assinine, vapid, rotten idea, and there are no excuses for it.
such as pointing out its only possible for the vile trinity to work in board games and lan rpgs where players all know each other and the entire game is a "premade" based on people playing these stupid classes.
in an mmo, it is utterly delusional to expect the sort of teamwork needed for the vile trinity to function.
in otherwords, its exclusionary bull**** that doesnt work in an mmo unless you molly-coddle it for being vile rotten and utterly outmoded for the environment
in otherwords, its exclusionary bull**** that doesnt work in an mmo unless you molly-coddle it for being vile rotten and utterly outmoded for the environment
50 dps types vs 50 tank types, which team wins?
dps of course.
its dying because its useless and out moded.
past 5v5 pvp the stupid exponential shared dps boosts(debuffs) are utterly game breaking for anything other than premade pve.
there is no role for these classes. molly coddling them is gimping the game design. they are antiquated.
i have gone over many reasons for this before.
Meanwhile, having only one role to choose from is somehow not "exclusionary bull****".
Right...
Designing content with 15k and 30k DPS requirements that require giving up even hybrid role builds isn't "exclusionary bull****"?
You can hurl a pejorative term around, that's great. Congratulations. Using scary words doesn't mean you've formed a sound argument, however.
Exclusionary?
Do you see tanks and healers running around demanding that the DPS role NOT EXIST AT ALL?
It's one thing to celebrate what you enjoy, but apparently some people aren't happy until things get taken away from others, as well.
Personally, I don't think we need a strict trinity or for the roles to specifically be DPS/Tank/Healer. However, I'd prefer that more than "several variations of the only role that actually exists" we have now.
Escorts load cannons and blow snot
Cruisers load up on technicians and A2B-BFAW
Science ships do exotic damage
So we have damage, damage, and damage.
Rather than everyone reiterating what they don't like with hyperbolic anecdotes trying to portray tanks and healers as pretentious windbags...again, while arguing to remove an entire playstyle from existence...no, that's not pretentious at all..
Anyways, rather than trying to make that which others prefer seem to be "of the devil" as it were, how about suggesting solutions. As in a solution besides "but you can fit your cruiser/sci to do a lot of DPS so I don't get why there's a problem."
Not sure what you're going on about. This game has DPS, Tank/Heal, and Control(and a various subset of other skills).
You can do all three of those things at once, but there will be a sacrifice somewhere(Aux2Bat generally sacrifices control and strong active heals). Conversely, a single specialized controller is a force multiplier that can turn a chaotic skirmish into a shooting gallery. (I fly several control builds, including multiple vacuum and drain builds. The difference in general player performance and time to kill is very noticable.)
If you think there is only one playstyle in this game, that's more of a player problem than a gameplay/mechanics one. I have 8 characters with very different playstyles - ranging from beamboats to torpboats to vapers to drain boats and so on. They're all quite effective/refined at this point, but they each require a different approach to how you play them and what you can do with them. The best part of it all, though, is that each one isn't locked behind the limitations of some 'class'.
hehe...vile trinity...you're starting to sound like a broken record skoll
anyyyyyyways...the thing with the trinity is that if done correctly (for standards on correct trinity please check with Skollulfr) if done correctly can allow the devs to add interesting fight mechanics. But things like power creep or weak fight mechanics can allow people to ignore trinity mechanics even if it is supposed to be a mandatory trinity. WoW MoP is a good example of this. Even on launch MoP dungeons were rediculously easy. And by the time heroic raiders were in like 540-550+ gear and they still had to run those same heroic dungeons to help cap valor points it got even more easier. Clothies like holy/disc priests running into a pack of 6-12 elite mobs and heal tanking them. Those guys still need their valor points but new players still want to run those same dungeons for fun. But the presense of power creep players trivializes the whole run. In past expacs WoW had been a little better about introducing dungeons that has a tiny bit of challenge but from what i hear Cata went a little too hard (i didnt play any of Cata) but MoP dialed back on the difficulty a little too much.
But even with non trinity systems like in GW2 i didnt see it working out so well. Everyone ended up becoming their own tank, their own healer and a dps. But that didnt work out so well for players that dont have the tanking or healing mentality. So whenever they got focused by the boss they would go splat. I actually saw this quite a bit, but mostly at low levels. There was this troll boss in the human area that would randomly aggro different people. On some aggro switches you would get a player that knew how to dodge, or self heal. But on other aggro switches you would get some players who didnt know wtf to do. Those are the kind of players who in a trinity system end up rolling dps, and usually never volunteer for hard assignments like add duty or anything special.
This late in the game i dont think it would be a good idea to go with a mandatory trinity. Not because i believe a trinity system is bad. But major changes like that in the middle of a games lifespan have a tendency to upset people. You cant accurately predict what effect a mandatory trinity will have on the game. How will it affect queue times for each class? will it be like other games where tanks have instant queues, healers have near instant queues and dps have to wait 10, 15 or 60 minutes for a group? will people end up having to do premades? How about the game AI? The game AI is pretty dumb, and i dont think it can support a lot of complex actions. An enemy NPC in space is basically a "ranged" class but it keeps moving, moving and moving until it is rubbing hulls with you. You do have some mobs that stay still or will scatter but it seems like a good portion of the mobs have the dumb ai that just comes at you. So far the devs attempts at trying to improve npc behavior in combat has not impressed me (ie Voth and Undine). But i am waiting until DR since i havent done it on tribble to see if they have made any improvements or what. If they cant make fights challenging by adding new/fun mechanics and things just end up being more health/more shields then at least then can try to make Eng/Tac/Sci ships and captain playstyle a bit more unique from one another. Sci is off to a good start from what i've seen, Tac has always been good, now just need to do something about Eng i think (if it even needs a buff to stay competitive).
Comments
I was working that approach for a while, until I learned just how good a Scimitar is in sci-roles. Grav well, plasmonic leech console, and an emphasis on AOE attacks and you have a ship that uses science-functions to their most devistating potential thanks to an infusion of conventional firepower. In fact I like this build more than the even more conventional application of a Tac-FED-Rom to a Scimitar. You could go the route of maximum DPS but without those other functions (that other strategies provide) you just don't have something that's quite as usable.
That's the crux of playing for fun in this game. Realize "hey, there's the question of the biggest numbers, but then there's the additional question of making numbers into fun gameplay" and the resulting (and very natural to make) builds will offer a much richer and entertaining version of STO that often delves into other aspects than mere damage.
Note: a scim doesn't help the damage magnet problem. I don't think any strategy based on getting every single NPC in front of you into a tiny ball of mutually exploding goodness can get around that one.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Why would someone do that unless they wanted to try the new T6 BOff type?
The Nebula is great. You don't need Tac Slots on a really good Sci. You want Sci Slots full of Particle Generators because those are what gets your damage/shutdowns. The Fleet Neb has... four, doesn't it? And the same with Engineering? That is a durable, powerful ship. It's better than the T6 version.
Plus Charged Particle Burst, Tachyon Beam, Target Subsystem, Viral Matrix
Polaron Beams, Tricobalts (especially Mines) shutdown enemies with a rift, Chroniton torps, Temporal Warfare Set (High Yield TDD will apply chroniton debuffs to every enemy that it passed on the way to the target and will spawn a rift on impact that chronitons and sub-nukes),
There is a DOff that adds Energy Drain to Tractor Beam, one that does it to Aceton Beam, a Tyken's Rift Spawner (like the GW DOff), one that adds Subsystem Shutdown to Energy Siphon
We got Buffs. The Science R&D Level 15 Trait gives you... I think that it is 25% Critical Hit Rate for Science Skills for every 100 Particle Generators that you have. People running Sci Ships (for sci powers) ought to have around 200 PG.
And then the normal Sci Captain Traits help out as well.
Meanwhile, having only one role to choose from is somehow not "exclusionary bull****".
Right...
Designing content with 15k and 30k DPS requirements that require giving up even hybrid role builds isn't "exclusionary bull****"?
You can hurl a pejorative term around, that's great. Congratulations. Using scary words doesn't mean you've formed a sound argument, however.
Exclusionary?
Do you see tanks and healers running around demanding that the DPS role NOT EXIST AT ALL?
It's one thing to celebrate what you enjoy, but apparently some people aren't happy until things get taken away from others, as well.
Personally, I don't think we need a strict trinity or for the roles to specifically be DPS/Tank/Healer. However, I'd prefer that more than "several variations of the only role that actually exists" we have now.
Escorts load cannons and blow snot
Cruisers load up on technicians and A2B-BFAW
Science ships do exotic damage
So we have damage, damage, and damage.
Rather than everyone reiterating what they don't like with hyperbolic anecdotes trying to portray tanks and healers as pretentious windbags...again, while arguing to remove an entire playstyle from existence...no, that's not pretentious at all..
Anyways, rather than trying to make that which others prefer seem to be "of the devil" as it were, how about suggesting solutions. As in a solution besides "but you can fit your cruiser/sci to do a lot of DPS so I don't get why there's a problem."
You can do all three of those things at once, but there will be a sacrifice somewhere(Aux2Bat generally sacrifices control and strong active heals). Conversely, a single specialized controller is a force multiplier that can turn a chaotic skirmish into a shooting gallery. (I fly several control builds, including multiple vacuum and drain builds. The difference in general player performance and time to kill is very noticable.)
If you think there is only one playstyle in this game, that's more of a player problem than a gameplay/mechanics one. I have 8 characters with very different playstyles - ranging from beamboats to torpboats to vapers to drain boats and so on. They're all quite effective/refined at this point, but they each require a different approach to how you play them and what you can do with them. The best part of it all, though, is that each one isn't locked behind the limitations of some 'class'.
anyyyyyyways...the thing with the trinity is that if done correctly (for standards on correct trinity please check with Skollulfr) if done correctly can allow the devs to add interesting fight mechanics. But things like power creep or weak fight mechanics can allow people to ignore trinity mechanics even if it is supposed to be a mandatory trinity. WoW MoP is a good example of this. Even on launch MoP dungeons were rediculously easy. And by the time heroic raiders were in like 540-550+ gear and they still had to run those same heroic dungeons to help cap valor points it got even more easier. Clothies like holy/disc priests running into a pack of 6-12 elite mobs and heal tanking them. Those guys still need their valor points but new players still want to run those same dungeons for fun. But the presense of power creep players trivializes the whole run. In past expacs WoW had been a little better about introducing dungeons that has a tiny bit of challenge but from what i hear Cata went a little too hard (i didnt play any of Cata) but MoP dialed back on the difficulty a little too much.
But even with non trinity systems like in GW2 i didnt see it working out so well. Everyone ended up becoming their own tank, their own healer and a dps. But that didnt work out so well for players that dont have the tanking or healing mentality. So whenever they got focused by the boss they would go splat. I actually saw this quite a bit, but mostly at low levels. There was this troll boss in the human area that would randomly aggro different people. On some aggro switches you would get a player that knew how to dodge, or self heal. But on other aggro switches you would get some players who didnt know wtf to do. Those are the kind of players who in a trinity system end up rolling dps, and usually never volunteer for hard assignments like add duty or anything special.
This late in the game i dont think it would be a good idea to go with a mandatory trinity. Not because i believe a trinity system is bad. But major changes like that in the middle of a games lifespan have a tendency to upset people. You cant accurately predict what effect a mandatory trinity will have on the game. How will it affect queue times for each class? will it be like other games where tanks have instant queues, healers have near instant queues and dps have to wait 10, 15 or 60 minutes for a group? will people end up having to do premades? How about the game AI? The game AI is pretty dumb, and i dont think it can support a lot of complex actions. An enemy NPC in space is basically a "ranged" class but it keeps moving, moving and moving until it is rubbing hulls with you. You do have some mobs that stay still or will scatter but it seems like a good portion of the mobs have the dumb ai that just comes at you. So far the devs attempts at trying to improve npc behavior in combat has not impressed me (ie Voth and Undine). But i am waiting until DR since i havent done it on tribble to see if they have made any improvements or what. If they cant make fights challenging by adding new/fun mechanics and things just end up being more health/more shields then at least then can try to make Eng/Tac/Sci ships and captain playstyle a bit more unique from one another. Sci is off to a good start from what i've seen, Tac has always been good, now just need to do something about Eng i think (if it even needs a buff to stay competitive).