I don't know about other posters attitude,i think every game should make profit , but what i don't get it is why the EC nerf when the only ones that will mostly lose are the casual players ( already poor) and not the pro farmers that want better stuff. That's is a attitude problem imo, but again maybe i am missing something ...
If I give cryptic the benefit of the doubt (which I am on the fence if they deserve) they were trying to act now to prevent massive inflation when the higher value mark 14 stuff starts getting vendored. If I don't give them the benefit of the doubt, then it appears to be an ineffective attempt to reduce the total amount of ec in the economy, in the mistaken belief that it will reduce the impact of botters and farmers.
Either way, I agree it seems, for now, to have hit the poorest more than the wealthiest.
Money has to leave the system for it to curb inflation. Money moving between players doesnt do anything. Less money added to the system doesnt do anything unless attrition rates are higher than income rates.
And yes, inflation was/is a big issue. Honestly, I think they went about it the wrong way. They should have the AH take a percentage of the selling price when you POST the item. That would have been a good way to leech excess EC AND make it so people don't post silly high amounts (either to use AH as storage or because they are being stupid).
All that will do is drive up prices by whatever the cost is, see business overheads.
No entitlement i just stated that fact.Unless we try to troll each other we can accept simple starting facts. How many entitlement claims u have ignored i don't care really. I am not deadly serious when i make my points also but i do like having a logical line of thinking. Confrontational attitude ? nope have better thing to do, u can call it direct approach :P.
No use for sarcasm .. yeah sure .. its like saying people don't need EC then saying u are making lots :rolleyes:. Presuming things from a discussion/post its normal, and to put it simple i respond to direct approaches in kind , but so are u i see, not deadly serious ofcorce .
Anyway from what i see this EC nerf was created problems for casual players mostly. Stable ones already know better EC farming methods ( like the ones that posted in this tread for example). Aslo things like gear drops for geint 1st/2nd are now more or less devaluated due to reputation/fleet gear or crafting. So now, easy/non complicated ways for casuals to gain pocket EC are mostly gone.
Imo this will force them to quit, pay money or suck more, with last option being more likely.
then you are turning to trolling based on the underlined, but thats your problem not mine.
i dont have entitlement issues with this game, i cant have entitlement issues because of the eula unless you forgot. i play it or i dont, and i play to waste time, nothing more. so you keep claiming for me on how many entitlements i apparently have, under conditions like that if you really like pushing for something that doesnt exist it could be considered harassment and thats something i can report. as i stated im deadly serious when making my points.
i never had problem getting around the ec farming, i thought i would but it didnt happen, before hand a few pieces of shipship sensors, engines and what not would of been enough for a few weeks before the nerf. but due to the amount of junk one can get in a few minutes after the nerf, throw it on the exchange someone will buy it and other stuff can just be thrown into the replicator. usually get enough, 300k ec usually lasts a few weeks.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
then you are turning to trolling based on the underlined, but thats your problem not mine.
i dont have entitlement issues with this game, i cant have entitlement issues because of the eula unless you forgot. i play it or i dont, and i play to waste time, nothing more. so you keep claiming for me on how many entitlements i apparently have, under conditions like that if you really like pushing for something that doesnt exist it could be considered harassment and thats something i can report. as i stated im deadly serious when making my points.
i never had problem getting around the ec farming, i thought i would but it didnt happen, before hand a few pieces of shipship sensors, engines and what not would of been enough for a few weeks before the nerf. but due to the amount of junk one can get in a few minutes after the nerf, throw it on the exchange someone will buy it and other stuff can just be thrown into the replicator. usually get enough, 300k ec usually lasts a few weeks.
I had a legitimate concern and i wanted some more argument-ed opinions. From were i stand, u spent more time basically trolling me for making this tread rather that disusing how the changes affect/or not the players.
My problem its with self-imposed rule masters. I don't like being told what i can and what i cant do, i can think for myself tyvm. If i break the rules then there are better people to point that out (admins, mods). I don't know were u see entitlement issues or that questionable logic made u think of that.
Whatever u play or not losing time or not i don't care nor i need to know. Its your time not mine, i do mind when someone sees fit to judge me or my free time (like for making this post). Harassment ? omg ... how on earth did u reached that conclusion ? i have better things to do but u can rest easy, i would not harass u even if we ware the last 2 people on this earth (or any other person). I don't suffer of attention issues. If u consider yourself by some dubious logic harassed u cant stop posting in my tread, then the imaginary problem will ; go away . On the other hand if u have any opinions about EC, game economy end stuff feel free to participate like u actually did only in the last post from my point of view.
Anyway, i see from some post that there are people that will play the game and have fun even with low lvl / less rare items. I can understand that. This game its quite fun to play. Now its also true that some find being efficient even better and so they want to get better gear. Some don't need it but some are ... even if they don't realize it. Wanting to do a STF series and PUG them can be quite a fun task until u fail HSE and CSE and taking 30+ minutes to win KASE ( if u are lucky and don't fail that too, those speedy probes . I sometimes pug too and i still see lots of people under-geared. I seen quite a few new players last period and while i usuly do STFs with some friends, DPS channels or pestf i heard lots of complains about fails and problems making EC from those guys, mostly that are casuals and do this for fun. Thats why i don't think this EC nerf was fair but never said anything about players being entitled to stuff.
Fixing EC devaluation as cause for EC nerf sounds pretty plausible also. I can understand that and if its true i agree something needed to be done about it. Whatever this will help fixing the prob or not remains to be seen.
The Admins here get really really buttmad if you dare to question their $125 Delta Pack greedfest. I've had two threads where they closed the threads to prevent even the possibility of discussion about it.
I'm not to surprised to be honest. Probably don't want anyone criticise about the price of the Delta Pack.
I usually don't get caught up in the greedfests. I'm pretty content on waiting for a little while.
The game is clearly free to play and, just in my personal opinion, a far better model of it that a lot of others. Especially the MMO of that other big sci-fi franchise.
I think $125 is fine for a pack that isn't necessary to play a free expansion. Just like the LoR update and it's optional extras.
I really would like to know what percent of STOers have played other MMOs.
The Admins here get really really buttmad if you dare to question their $125 Delta Pack greedfest. I've had two threads where they closed the threads to prevent even the possibility of discussion about it.
What's they to discuss, they are giving out a whole bunch of c-store items and some special kudos for less than even what the ships in the pack would cost. Really nothing to discuss about it. If you don't want to spend it, don't, most of the items in it will be available in the c-store individually.
Free to Play means people can play the entire game without ever spending money on it, and in the case of STO that is still true, you can still play through all of the content without having to buy zen or use the dil exchange, you also don't need any of the C-store, Lobi or Lockbox stuff that's on the exchange.
The catch is that to make life easier for the players (and to keep Cryptic and PWE in business) someone has to spend money on zen, then it very much becomes a Pay to Play game.
No it won't. Because 1) people may not buy it at the increased price. And 2) the OVERALL amount of EC will go down...so people won't buy it at the increased rate. Remember, you post that lock box ship for 250 mil and NOBODY buys it and we say charge a 1% posting fee, your out 2.5 mil. Remember, I said charge at POSTING...not SELLING.
1) If someone wants it enough, they will pay. People are quite happy to pay EC prices now, so what difference will it make.
2) No it wont, because the price has been increased to cover the tax cost, and default costs if the item fails to sell.
You will not decrease cost to buy for consumers by increasing seller costs.
sto in a way is like life, you can always look at someone and say cor wish i had that, at their latest mobile, rolex watch or red farari.
but at the end of the day does that make us any less a person, ok so your free to play and i am a lifer, at the end of the day whats the big deal.
so i got glitzy rewards do they make me a better player any more then the guy with the rolex watch is better at telling the time then i am with my plaine old seiko.
at the end of the day its just frosting on the cake, and dont make a hapeth worth of differance to how you play the game and how much fun you have doing it.
so is sto still free to play, yes its as free as you want it to be.
if you feel you want to buy something and you have the cash then go ahead and buy it, if you want something but dont have the cash earn the dil to buy it and all the time you can think how good it is to get it for dil when someone else ponied up the cash.
but dont be pressured into paying for anything, you wont feel good about it if you do.
will i still kick b*tt as much with my T5U as the guy with the T6 maybe, maybe not, but ill still have just as much fun doing it, who cares if he scores a few more points then i do, not me.
will you feel just as good at the end of the day when you turn off your computer and it all goes away, most definately.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
sto in a way is like life, you can always look at someone and say cor wish i had that, at their latest mobile, rolex watch or red farari.
I have a Rolex. Got it as a gift about ten years ago, from a boss with more money than sense. I keep it in a drawer. My $5 Casio keeps better time.
Similarly, I really doubt I'm going to run into any missions in DR where my prototype Oddy just won't cut it. Why drop big bucks, when my free ship handles it just fine?
For those who thinks this game isn't really F2P anymore because you can't get what you want in a feasible amount of time or effort by getting it free, need to understand things are going to be a lot harder as time goes on(in terms of getting end game gear).
Honestly, this game is very, very easy and you do NOT need high end game gear.
Basic gear and what ever stuff you can get by drops will do just fine.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
The game ceased being F2P long ago (circa Season 7 and LOR). If you want to play the basic content then yes that can be done with free ships and trash gear. But then what are you going to do 99% of the time? I mean it takes 1-2 week of casual play to level to 50. 51-60 will also be reasonably quick ... or risk alienating the casuals.
So now you are stuck grinding time gated reps / farming marks and dilithium and gear / and spending cash or obscene amounts of time grinding EC for P2W TRIBBLE for PvP.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
They need free players because without them you won't have enough players. All online games know this for fact. Prior to Free play you had to pay to get in to play. Now Free/Silver, Gold/Monthly, VIP/LT.. Gold/LT get more perks and stand out more. So far now as along as they have FREE open access to play the game with limits on add-on's you can see how things are changing to squeeze you to move out of Free into either GOLD or LT account. Everyone here going to have his or her opinion on this subject. But if you want things that's you can't get on Exchange or with D-Ore then ZEN is your choice, but if you go with ZEN you might as well get on GOLD, but then again LT - Life-Time gives you extra perks. Vets seem to get extra extra perks.
If somebody wants it enough, yes they will pay. But if you are selling the product at 250 mil and somebody else is selling at 100 mil, YOU won't be selling squat. Your under the mistaken impression that EVERYONE will just increase costs by the 1%. NO, no they won't. And if you keep increasing the cost everytime your product fails to sells in hopes that you catch a sucker, your chances of selling keeps going down and downs and you keep losing your posting fee. Your thinkiing like the sellers are a monopoly and can get whatever price they want. That;s not how this works.
And as a buisness, yes you increase costs sometimes due to increased taxes...but not ALWAYS...at least if you want to stay in buisness. There are price points where you just can't sell stuff anymore. You can't sell a plain old normal chocolate chip cookie that is the size of your palm for $15 bucks...even if your the only cookie baker in town.
And I am not talking about taxes ANYWAYS...I am talking about leeching money out of the system to cause a deflation. You do realize that when the government prints money, it causes inflation due to the devaluation of the money being printed...right? Take a wild guess what happens when you take money OUT of the system.
Look mate, your decision to sell a 100 mil product for 250 mil and proceeding to complain about your own tax isn't my issue. Stop saying I said stuff I didn't say.
My first toon hit 50 before I even completed the Cardassian arc. Another one did it while preparing to head into the Arena to eventually confront Hakeev (and escape at the last moment).
There's lots left to do when you hit 50, even if you don't have altitis (with which I am severely afflicted). One of these days, I ought to buckle down and complete the Undine arc, and maybe finish up on Mol'Rihan, and work on fighting the Voth in the Solonae sphere, and...
What part of I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A TAX DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND. YOU used the term tax. I am talking BASIC economic policies. Go back to econ 101 if you don't have a clue what I am talking about and get back to me...because, obviously, you don't know the basics of what I am talking about.
And the prices I picked were jusr random numbers. The fact still remains that you sell for 250 mil and somebody sells for 249 mil, YOU still won't get the sale. So you increase 1% and somebody else doesn't, the one who didn't get the sale.
Nope, you're still an angry sod trying to place words that were not said.
What part of I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A TAX DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND. YOU used the term tax. I am talking BASIC economic policies. Go back to econ 101 if you don't have a clue what I am talking about and get back to me...because, obviously, you don't know the basics of what I am talking about.
And the prices I picked were jusr random numbers. The fact still remains that you sell for 250 mil and somebody sells for 249 mil, YOU still won't get the sale. So you increase 1% and somebody else doesn't, the one who didn't get the sale.
Mate, every time you're shouting (caps), you're either mad or don't even know what you're talking about. Now if i'd look back at your previous posts...
Nope, you're still an angry sod trying to place words that were not said.
Mr. coldnapalm, I suggest you'd listen to motorbikers. They usually know their stuff.
Now... CBR, considering our previous posting contact i'd still wanted to ask you; do you vlog or watch motovlogs? They're kinda fun . Hayabusa's and stuff ftw.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
Mate, every time you're shouting (caps), you're either mad or don't even know what you're talking about. Now if i'd look back at your previous posts...
Mr. coldnapalm, I suggest you'd listen to motorbikers. They usually know their stuff.
Now... CBR, considering our previous posting contact i'd still wanted to ask you; do you vlog or watch motovlogs? They're kinda fun . Hayabusa's and stuff ftw.
Nope, used to do a bit of that riding round 1-2 mile stretches of road in a quite exuberant manner with a bunch of like minded nutters though.
Comments
Either way, I agree it seems, for now, to have hit the poorest more than the wealthiest.
All that will do is drive up prices by whatever the cost is, see business overheads.
then you are turning to trolling based on the underlined, but thats your problem not mine.
i dont have entitlement issues with this game, i cant have entitlement issues because of the eula unless you forgot. i play it or i dont, and i play to waste time, nothing more. so you keep claiming for me on how many entitlements i apparently have, under conditions like that if you really like pushing for something that doesnt exist it could be considered harassment and thats something i can report. as i stated im deadly serious when making my points.
i never had problem getting around the ec farming, i thought i would but it didnt happen, before hand a few pieces of shipship sensors, engines and what not would of been enough for a few weeks before the nerf. but due to the amount of junk one can get in a few minutes after the nerf, throw it on the exchange someone will buy it and other stuff can just be thrown into the replicator. usually get enough, 300k ec usually lasts a few weeks.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I had a legitimate concern and i wanted some more argument-ed opinions. From were i stand, u spent more time basically trolling me for making this tread rather that disusing how the changes affect/or not the players.
My problem its with self-imposed rule masters. I don't like being told what i can and what i cant do, i can think for myself tyvm. If i break the rules then there are better people to point that out (admins, mods). I don't know were u see entitlement issues or that questionable logic made u think of that.
Whatever u play or not losing time or not i don't care nor i need to know. Its your time not mine, i do mind when someone sees fit to judge me or my free time (like for making this post). Harassment ? omg ... how on earth did u reached that conclusion ? i have better things to do but u can rest easy, i would not harass u even if we ware the last 2 people on this earth (or any other person). I don't suffer of attention issues. If u consider yourself by some dubious logic harassed u cant stop posting in my tread, then the imaginary problem will ; go away
Anyway, i see from some post that there are people that will play the game and have fun even with low lvl / less rare items. I can understand that. This game its quite fun to play. Now its also true that some find being efficient even better and so they want to get better gear. Some don't need it but some are ... even if they don't realize it. Wanting to do a STF series and PUG them can be quite a fun task until u fail HSE and CSE and taking 30+ minutes to win KASE ( if u are lucky and don't fail that too, those speedy probes
Fixing EC devaluation as cause for EC nerf sounds pretty plausible also. I can understand that and if its true i agree something needed to be done about it. Whatever this will help fixing the prob or not remains to be seen.
I'm not to surprised to be honest. Probably don't want anyone criticise about the price of the Delta Pack.
I usually don't get caught up in the greedfests. I'm pretty content on waiting for a little while.
I think $125 is fine for a pack that isn't necessary to play a free expansion. Just like the LoR update and it's optional extras.
I really would like to know what percent of STOers have played other MMOs.
What's they to discuss, they are giving out a whole bunch of c-store items and some special kudos for less than even what the ships in the pack would cost. Really nothing to discuss about it. If you don't want to spend it, don't, most of the items in it will be available in the c-store individually.
Free to Play well.....no.
The catch is that to make life easier for the players (and to keep Cryptic and PWE in business) someone has to spend money on zen, then it very much becomes a Pay to Play game.
1) If someone wants it enough, they will pay. People are quite happy to pay EC prices now, so what difference will it make.
2) No it wont, because the price has been increased to cover the tax cost, and default costs if the item fails to sell.
You will not decrease cost to buy for consumers by increasing seller costs.
but at the end of the day does that make us any less a person, ok so your free to play and i am a lifer, at the end of the day whats the big deal.
so i got glitzy rewards do they make me a better player any more then the guy with the rolex watch is better at telling the time then i am with my plaine old seiko.
at the end of the day its just frosting on the cake, and dont make a hapeth worth of differance to how you play the game and how much fun you have doing it.
so is sto still free to play, yes its as free as you want it to be.
if you feel you want to buy something and you have the cash then go ahead and buy it, if you want something but dont have the cash earn the dil to buy it and all the time you can think how good it is to get it for dil when someone else ponied up the cash.
but dont be pressured into paying for anything, you wont feel good about it if you do.
will i still kick b*tt as much with my T5U as the guy with the T6 maybe, maybe not, but ill still have just as much fun doing it, who cares if he scores a few more points then i do, not me.
will you feel just as good at the end of the day when you turn off your computer and it all goes away, most definately.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Similarly, I really doubt I'm going to run into any missions in DR where my prototype Oddy just won't cut it. Why drop big bucks, when my free ship handles it just fine?
Honestly, this game is very, very easy and you do NOT need high end game gear.
Basic gear and what ever stuff you can get by drops will do just fine.
So now you are stuck grinding time gated reps / farming marks and dilithium and gear / and spending cash or obscene amounts of time grinding EC for P2W TRIBBLE for PvP.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Have fun!
Time will only tell!
Look mate, your decision to sell a 100 mil product for 250 mil and proceeding to complain about your own tax isn't my issue. Stop saying I said stuff I didn't say.
There's lots left to do when you hit 50, even if you don't have altitis (with which I am severely afflicted). One of these days, I ought to buckle down and complete the Undine arc, and maybe finish up on Mol'Rihan, and work on fighting the Voth in the Solonae sphere, and...
Nope, you're still an angry sod trying to place words that were not said.
Mr. coldnapalm, I suggest you'd listen to motorbikers. They usually know their stuff.
Now... CBR, considering our previous posting contact i'd still wanted to ask you; do you vlog or watch motovlogs? They're kinda fun
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
Nope, used to do a bit of that riding round 1-2 mile stretches of road in a quite exuberant manner with a bunch of like minded nutters though.