Someone posted this theory on reddit and now everyone is running with it like its fact. Even though the dev team has said nothing of this section 31 idea.
I am only going off what I see...the ships have a stealth quality to the and they are called intelligence ships.
Ummm, Starfleet Intelligence =/= Section 31 by a long shot. That doesn't make much sense. Starfleet Intelligence everyone knows exists... Section 31 is completely secret (or is supposed to be) and doesn't work "within the rules" as regular SFI does.
I Like them. there's only so many ways of using the classic "2 nacelles, saucer, and engineering hull" design until ships start looking like one another. I Like that they are doing more distinctive stuff.
I Like them. there's only so many ways of using the classic "2 nacelles, saucer, and engineering hull" design until ships start looking like one another. I Like that they are doing more distinctive stuff.
You'd be surprised of the amount of variation that is possible and still actually keep things looking like a federation starship.
you guys realize they are based on section 31 ships right?
Where have we seen Section 31 ships before?
I agree with the OP that the Fed ships don't hold Federation classics. I find it to be the corners that make it this way. The federation is rounded and flowing with its designs of ships. Sharp corners are not a practice used in Starfleet.
The Klingon ships are completely Klingon but IMO they need more than just a Raptor to venture into the Delta Quadrant. They need a new BoP and Carrier class to carry their forces and complete their efforts in the Delta Quadrant.
The Romulan ships seem ok as far as a feel towards Romulan ships go, I don't really care for the KDF BoP look given here for the Intelligence ship but that is just me, maybe?
However, lets do something crazy! How about giving the Roms and KDF 3 new Shuttles each and ONLY 1 for new Fed shuttle. KDF and Rom each need a match to the Yellowstone, Tal'Kyr and Delta Class shuttles. While Roms are able to use all of these shuttle types if they choose Fed they cannot if they go KDF. And While you can simply give a shuttle varient to the KDF that the Roms can use I think it would just be better for all Factions to have "State of the Art" shuttles to venture forth in the Delta Quadrant.
You'd be surprised of the amount of variation that is possible and still actually keep things looking like a federation starship.
This. Hell, they don't even have to use 2 nacelles. Or a secondary hull. They could mount the nacelles straight to a saucer a la the Freedom, Apollo, Hermes, Saladin, Akula and Kelvin class boats. Or they could have more nacelles, or more hulls.
Tenkari's argument was made by a dev earlier in the thread. It was just as poor then.
Now that you mention it, caitians can be the perfect explanation for why these ship's stealth hull is blue and how they got cloaks... it very well could be an evolution of catian technology getting incorporated into the fleet. Good job, you. You've effectively justified the appearance of these ships... I actually find them ten times more appealing having received this insight into their design.
I think the issue is less that these ships are a departure and more that these ships are being perceived as wholly superior to Tier 5U ships, meaning that people expect to see classic designs disappear and play second fiddle to these departures.
I have no problem with the Caitian ships or, personally, with lockbox ships.
What I dislike is the idea that a diverse fleet of canonical ships may disappear or be rendered inferior next to these.
It would go a long way if instead of Tier 5U, upgraded Tier 5 ships were tuned to be balanced against these and called Tier 6, possibly with Intelligence BO seating. Heck, make these Intel ships the only ones with Intel Commander slots but give the other ships lower ranked Intel stations in their upgraded form.
This all currently seems like it's corralling customization.
I think the issue is less that these ships are a departure and more that these ships are being perceived as wholly superior to Tier 5U ships, meaning that people expect to see classic designs disappear and play second fiddle to these departures.
I have no problem with the Caitian ships or, personally, with lockbox ships.
What I dislike is the idea that a diverse fleet of canonical ships may disappear or be rendered inferior next to these.
It would go a long way if instead of Tier 5U, upgraded Tier 5 ships were tuned to be balanced against these and called Tier 6, possibly with Intelligence BO seating. Heck, make these Intel ships the only ones with Intel Commander slots but give the other ships lower ranked Intel stations in their upgraded form.
This all currently seems like it's corralling customization.
It remains to be seen what benefit the T6 trinkets left off of T-5U ships will bring, they might be nothing more than shiny bobbles that ultimately don't do too much like the phaser lance on the fed dread. So while I agree that upgrading them and simply calling them T6 and giving them that little left over bit would probably calm any upset, I'll wait to pass judgement until we have more details, plus they can always give T-5U the full T6 treatment later like how the avenger was the first with com powers but all the cruisers got them eventually.
I don't think all T6 ships are getting intel boffs, just those three fed and one rom and one klink ship, the T6, non-intel ships of each faction don't sound like they will be getting intel boffs.
The intel ships have been designed from the ground up to look specifically this way.
Please stop having the entire group of individuals responsible for ship design be fed a constant stream of Tron imagery...
How about spending some time to watch Star Trek and take a look at what the ships look like. This whole "hey it's new, different and modern" thing isn't working out despite a few individuals who think they're "zomg this is the best thing ever".
Haven't you guys realized yet that the ships we've been seeing are the Zen-store obtainable ones?
Don't you remember how it was with Legacy of Romulus, where the Zen-Store ships could be used both as slightly better versions offering special consoles, and costume options over what was a free ship of that tier?
Don't you remember reading that Cryptic was going to let Delta Rising players get Tier 6 ships for free?
We've seen the 'special' looking version of these ships. We haven't seen the 'normal/more mundane' ones were like, including their lack of Tier 6 material and their supposedly (if you at all keep attention to ShipDev feedback) much more 'mainstream' styling.
O.M.G. people are jumping to conclusions and they saw the ship from only one perspective...wait to see it in game or at least other perspective and than make a noise about it...
You guys ( WE ) should have confidence in Dev. Team and let them do there job...after is done then is our job to criticize what we like and do no like...
From what i can see new ships are beautiful, its real 2410 starfleet unlike Dyson Sci. Destroyer that is not...its the only ship in game that i am against!!!
O.M.G. people are jumping to conclusions and they saw the ship from only one perspective...wait to see it in game or at least other perspective and than make a noise about it...
You guys ( WE ) should have confidence in Dev. Team and let them do there job...after is done then is our job to criticize what we like and do no like...
From what i can see new ships are beautiful, its real 2410 starfleet unlike Dyson Sci. Destroyer that is not...its the only ship in game that i am against!!!
>>LIVE LONG AND PROSPER<<
If you go to page 5 a Dev responded to a request I had to show more customization of the T6 ships... and said they look to a future blog on it.. so ya your right.. but hey its the forums.. if your not complaing and doom 'n glooming your not doing it right.
Please stop having the entire group of individuals responsible for ship design be fed a constant stream of Tron imagery...
How about spending some time to watch Star Trek and take a look at what the ships look like. This whole "hey it's new, different and modern" thing isn't working out despite a few individuals who think they're "zomg this is the best thing ever".
Just some honest feedback...
um... Jamjamz and LtCmrdmiller... the two ship people DO watch trek. most of the staff does.
Also, CBS has to okay all the new ships and stuff, so your just whining because it doesnt look how you want them?
I don't like their look... period. This is why I'll stick to the Vesta Class until there is a full on Tier 6 upgrade for them and whatever other Tier 5 ship we want to use at Level 60.
I don't like their look... period. This is why I'll stick to the Vesta Class until there is a full on Tier 6 upgrade for them and whatever other Tier 5 ship we want to use at Level 60.
I don't particularly like the design of the new Fed ships either. I'll most likely continue using my canon trek ships.
Please stop having the entire group of individuals responsible for ship design be fed a constant stream of Tron imagery...
How about spending some time to watch Star Trek and take a look at what the ships look like. This whole "hey it's new, different and modern" thing isn't working out despite a few individuals who think they're "zomg this is the best thing ever".
Just some honest feedback...
Actually, it's a part of their regular/semi-regular/whatever schedule (usually lunch) to watch random episodes/movies of ST at the studio - just like Tenkari said
And like our ship artist posted earlier, they know the usual design - but they have opportunities to branch out
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Let me preface this by saying I am just speaking about the federation ship designs. There has been some great work with ship designs of late and I have been really impressed with some of them, the tempest and avenger; the work on the Constellation are just top notch.
The first challenge I see with the intelligence ships is the hull material; hopefully there will be options to select other hull materials; as an option it might work for some people but not alas for me.
The Intelligence Cruiser, has the heritage to the stargazer and constellation classes, I can see that in the hull and nacel configuration, the hull shape, is a little thin for me; but I can see the "stealth" intent... for me it's the nacels ... especially from the top they just look a too flat and "squished"...
The intelligence science ship; is no better/worse than the golfball...
The intelligence escort is "fine".
My summary is I hope we have some different skin choices and some different hull parts that we can use for these ships to give them a somewhat more traditional shapes.
The first challenge I see with the intelligence ships is the hull material; hopefully there will be options to select other hull materials; as an option it might work for some people but not alas for me.
The Intelligence Cruiser, has the heritage to the stargazer and constellation classes, I can see that in the hull and nacel configuration, the hull shape, is a little thin for me; but I can see the "stealth" intent... for me it's the nacels ... especially from the top they just look a too flat and "squished"...
The intelligence science ship; is no better/worse than the golfball...
The intelligence escort is "fine".
My summary is I hope we have some different skin choices and some different hull parts that we can use for these ships to give them a somewhat more traditional shapes.
If i recall. they mentioned that the Current hull visuals for the intel ships is their style of the "type 6" hull. so im assuming that changing hull mats will get rid of the "tron look"
If i recall. they mentioned that the Current hull visuals for the intel ships is their style of the "type 6" hull. so im assuming that changing hull mats will get rid of the "tron look"
Changing hull texture, won't do anything to remove the "flip-floppy" feel of the overall superstructure in these ships. As speedofheat mentioned, the nacelles looks far too thin (especially on the Cruiser), the science ship loses a lot of internal volume by having been subjected to the "swisscheese" effect. And the escort looks especially flat. None of which, makes me jump for joy in wanting to fly one of these boats. The models are apparently "done", so no amount of whining will change anything before Delta Rising launches. One could hope for additional materials to make it "seem" more Fed-like. And then there's the hope for some more traditional ships overall for launch (besides the Guardian Cruiser).
You know what solve all of the above, in a quick, and smooth way?
Allow players to upgrade their Tier 5 ships (Fleet, Lockbox, Retrofit, Refit) to FULL Tier 6 (ability to outfit Intelligence officers, 5th ship trait, additional Bridge officer ability). I frankly couldn't care less for the new "Intel ship consoles", so let them be Unique to the Intel ships. I'd be more than willing to spend 10-20 dollars for a Full upgrade, rather than 5-10 dollars for a "sub-par upgrade". As I'm sure, many would as well.
Players have spent a bunch of money buying these ships, either with real cash or ingame currency. Now we're being asked to spend more. And spend it on upgrading ships to be sub-par. How is that in any way fair, to the people who spent potentially HUNDREDS of dollars on Lockbox ships? Far more than the going price for the "Delta Rising pack".
Since this thread is incorporating a fair bit of feedback, I'd like to toss out the following:
The Odyssey seems to have been a controversial dev design that has largely been accepted. Attempts at armored looking Starfleet vessels (like the Majestic and Imperial classes) were controversial dev designs that have never been fully embraced.
It seems to me like there is STILL SO MUCH ROOM to expand on the Odyssey aesthetic.
The Tempest expanded the Odyssey styling to the Patrol Escort. The Venture took the Odyssey aesthetic to the Exploration Cruiser. The Regent took that style to the Sovereign. There's so much room to expand that line of design out, to provide Odyssey style updates to the Defiant, the Intrepid, the Constellation, the Constitution, the Vesta, the Nebula, the Akira, the Prometheus, the Excelsior.
There is so much room to provide transitional designs as well.
In the future of Trek, we have seen Dauntless, Wells, and Universe class ships. We could start to see transitional designs that echo these but with a 2410 sensibility.
There's a web comic out there which has reimagined Star Trek in a steam punk style called Airship Enterprise. I think the artist there managed to keep the ideas intact despite a transition between design aesthetics. I think Trek lends itself to lots of reinterpretations quite well and I could even see a futuristic clockwork take in the vein of the modern TARDIS interiors from Doctor Who.
I guess my issue here is an issue I have with many comic book revamps: it tries to be warlike. I'm just not feeling it and hope people aren't encouraged to fly ships that look quite this warlike. If they want to, fine. But it isn't like other design options have been expended.
I don't have a problem with the departure from traditional Federation designs. You can only draw a saucer/hull combo in so many ways. Creativity in the artistic department should be encouraged, not discouraged. I'm eager to see what the new design strategy looks like.
I'm not a huge fan of most of the fed ships but I can see they have their function and charm, that said I will be updating my fleet chimera and Oddy and using them till a design I find appealing comes my way, but seeing that your deviating from current design may I ask that you concider allowing lifers to get that Co-operative sphere to use as a T-6?
What would have been really nice is if with the VO's of Tuvok they shoulda let Cryptic use the design of that ship in the pitch ST:Renegades he started up lol. That better looking D7 and that promethius/vorcha hybrid federation ship would sell big especially the hybrid. Would be interesting to have a cross faction ship like that for feds/kdf. If anything though they would take that kinda popularity to a lockbox lol.
Comments
Yeah I remember, the message boards were on FIRE in 1987.
Ummm, Starfleet Intelligence =/= Section 31 by a long shot. That doesn't make much sense. Starfleet Intelligence everyone knows exists... Section 31 is completely secret (or is supposed to be) and doesn't work "within the rules" as regular SFI does.
You'd be surprised of the amount of variation that is possible and still actually keep things looking like a federation starship.
Where have we seen Section 31 ships before?
I agree with the OP that the Fed ships don't hold Federation classics. I find it to be the corners that make it this way. The federation is rounded and flowing with its designs of ships. Sharp corners are not a practice used in Starfleet.
The Klingon ships are completely Klingon but IMO they need more than just a Raptor to venture into the Delta Quadrant. They need a new BoP and Carrier class to carry their forces and complete their efforts in the Delta Quadrant.
The Romulan ships seem ok as far as a feel towards Romulan ships go, I don't really care for the KDF BoP look given here for the Intelligence ship but that is just me, maybe?
However, lets do something crazy! How about giving the Roms and KDF 3 new Shuttles each and ONLY 1 for new Fed shuttle. KDF and Rom each need a match to the Yellowstone, Tal'Kyr and Delta Class shuttles. While Roms are able to use all of these shuttle types if they choose Fed they cannot if they go KDF. And While you can simply give a shuttle varient to the KDF that the Roms can use I think it would just be better for all Factions to have "State of the Art" shuttles to venture forth in the Delta Quadrant.
technically. only one, in an alternate timeline. it was called the U.S.S. vengeance.
This. Hell, they don't even have to use 2 nacelles. Or a secondary hull. They could mount the nacelles straight to a saucer a la the Freedom, Apollo, Hermes, Saladin, Akula and Kelvin class boats. Or they could have more nacelles, or more hulls.
Tenkari's argument was made by a dev earlier in the thread. It was just as poor then.
I think the issue is less that these ships are a departure and more that these ships are being perceived as wholly superior to Tier 5U ships, meaning that people expect to see classic designs disappear and play second fiddle to these departures.
I have no problem with the Caitian ships or, personally, with lockbox ships.
What I dislike is the idea that a diverse fleet of canonical ships may disappear or be rendered inferior next to these.
It would go a long way if instead of Tier 5U, upgraded Tier 5 ships were tuned to be balanced against these and called Tier 6, possibly with Intelligence BO seating. Heck, make these Intel ships the only ones with Intel Commander slots but give the other ships lower ranked Intel stations in their upgraded form.
This all currently seems like it's corralling customization.
It remains to be seen what benefit the T6 trinkets left off of T-5U ships will bring, they might be nothing more than shiny bobbles that ultimately don't do too much like the phaser lance on the fed dread. So while I agree that upgrading them and simply calling them T6 and giving them that little left over bit would probably calm any upset, I'll wait to pass judgement until we have more details, plus they can always give T-5U the full T6 treatment later like how the avenger was the first with com powers but all the cruisers got them eventually.
I don't think all T6 ships are getting intel boffs, just those three fed and one rom and one klink ship, the T6, non-intel ships of each faction don't sound like they will be getting intel boffs.
Please stop having the entire group of individuals responsible for ship design be fed a constant stream of Tron imagery...
How about spending some time to watch Star Trek and take a look at what the ships look like. This whole "hey it's new, different and modern" thing isn't working out despite a few individuals who think they're "zomg this is the best thing ever".
Just some honest feedback...
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
Don't you remember how it was with Legacy of Romulus, where the Zen-Store ships could be used both as slightly better versions offering special consoles, and costume options over what was a free ship of that tier?
Don't you remember reading that Cryptic was going to let Delta Rising players get Tier 6 ships for free?
We've seen the 'special' looking version of these ships. We haven't seen the 'normal/more mundane' ones were like, including their lack of Tier 6 material and their supposedly (if you at all keep attention to ShipDev feedback) much more 'mainstream' styling.
You guys ( WE ) should have confidence in Dev. Team and let them do there job...after is done then is our job to criticize what we like and do no like...
From what i can see new ships are beautiful, its real 2410 starfleet unlike Dyson Sci. Destroyer that is not...its the only ship in game that i am against!!!
>>LIVE LONG AND PROSPER<<
If you go to page 5 a Dev responded to a request I had to show more customization of the T6 ships... and said they look to a future blog on it.. so ya your right.. but hey its the forums.. if your not complaing and doom 'n glooming your not doing it right.
um... Jamjamz and LtCmrdmiller... the two ship people DO watch trek. most of the staff does.
Also, CBS has to okay all the new ships and stuff, so your just whining because it doesnt look how you want them?
I like the new ships.
I don't particularly like the design of the new Fed ships either. I'll most likely continue using my canon trek ships.
And like our ship artist posted earlier, they know the usual design - but they have opportunities to branch out
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The first challenge I see with the intelligence ships is the hull material; hopefully there will be options to select other hull materials; as an option it might work for some people but not alas for me.
The Intelligence Cruiser, has the heritage to the stargazer and constellation classes, I can see that in the hull and nacel configuration, the hull shape, is a little thin for me; but I can see the "stealth" intent... for me it's the nacels ... especially from the top they just look a too flat and "squished"...
The intelligence science ship; is no better/worse than the golfball...
The intelligence escort is "fine".
My summary is I hope we have some different skin choices and some different hull parts that we can use for these ships to give them a somewhat more traditional shapes.
If i recall. they mentioned that the Current hull visuals for the intel ships is their style of the "type 6" hull. so im assuming that changing hull mats will get rid of the "tron look"
Changing hull texture, won't do anything to remove the "flip-floppy" feel of the overall superstructure in these ships. As speedofheat mentioned, the nacelles looks far too thin (especially on the Cruiser), the science ship loses a lot of internal volume by having been subjected to the "swisscheese" effect. And the escort looks especially flat. None of which, makes me jump for joy in wanting to fly one of these boats. The models are apparently "done", so no amount of whining will change anything before Delta Rising launches. One could hope for additional materials to make it "seem" more Fed-like. And then there's the hope for some more traditional ships overall for launch (besides the Guardian Cruiser).
You know what solve all of the above, in a quick, and smooth way?
Allow players to upgrade their Tier 5 ships (Fleet, Lockbox, Retrofit, Refit) to FULL Tier 6 (ability to outfit Intelligence officers, 5th ship trait, additional Bridge officer ability). I frankly couldn't care less for the new "Intel ship consoles", so let them be Unique to the Intel ships. I'd be more than willing to spend 10-20 dollars for a Full upgrade, rather than 5-10 dollars for a "sub-par upgrade". As I'm sure, many would as well.
Players have spent a bunch of money buying these ships, either with real cash or ingame currency. Now we're being asked to spend more. And spend it on upgrading ships to be sub-par. How is that in any way fair, to the people who spent potentially HUNDREDS of dollars on Lockbox ships? Far more than the going price for the "Delta Rising pack".
The Odyssey seems to have been a controversial dev design that has largely been accepted. Attempts at armored looking Starfleet vessels (like the Majestic and Imperial classes) were controversial dev designs that have never been fully embraced.
It seems to me like there is STILL SO MUCH ROOM to expand on the Odyssey aesthetic.
The Tempest expanded the Odyssey styling to the Patrol Escort. The Venture took the Odyssey aesthetic to the Exploration Cruiser. The Regent took that style to the Sovereign. There's so much room to expand that line of design out, to provide Odyssey style updates to the Defiant, the Intrepid, the Constellation, the Constitution, the Vesta, the Nebula, the Akira, the Prometheus, the Excelsior.
There is so much room to provide transitional designs as well.
In the future of Trek, we have seen Dauntless, Wells, and Universe class ships. We could start to see transitional designs that echo these but with a 2410 sensibility.
There's a web comic out there which has reimagined Star Trek in a steam punk style called Airship Enterprise. I think the artist there managed to keep the ideas intact despite a transition between design aesthetics. I think Trek lends itself to lots of reinterpretations quite well and I could even see a futuristic clockwork take in the vein of the modern TARDIS interiors from Doctor Who.
I guess my issue here is an issue I have with many comic book revamps: it tries to be warlike. I'm just not feeling it and hope people aren't encouraged to fly ships that look quite this warlike. If they want to, fine. But it isn't like other design options have been expended.
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/348/6/e/excalibur_class_ortho___uss_paris_by_unusualsuspex-d6xroo4.jpg
http://s1003.photobucket.com/user/Terminus276/media/excalibur_zps85bb16d4.gif.html
Now thats how a tier 6 ship from star trek universe should look like!YEAR: 2410, Location: Delta Quadrant
New flagship and also an Intelligence Battleship(a.k.a.:Battleship-Superdreadnought mixture)class starship!:mad:
(Number of decks: minimum 24, maximum:33!)
(Length: almost 5 kms)
Mine Trap Supporter
Those ships already have that.