I've talked about this in the past. Nothing has changed. I still want to rebuild it, but it's not in the plan at this time. That doesn't mean it can't be, just isn't right now.
It will be so awesome, if/when it happens.
Did you design the briefing room in "Second Wave," Taco? I thought I read that on here....
You're right. Perhaps "cop out" was a bit harsh. But the point is, they could reduce the number of ships seen on screen around DS9 (in the System Map), by reducing the number of players on that map at any given time.
And as for Social Zone? Please. DS9 (interior, station map) is the Social Zone. Not a whole lot of socializing going on outside the station. If you consider the "RP" in MMORPG, our ships are NOT sentient. Our ships do not speak with each other. Our Captains do :P
Watching the composition of the 'player fleet' over DS9 is quite captivating actually. The lighting there isn't so skewed as over Earth, Qo'nos or New Romulus (I know DS9's lighting is not very realistic in space). Over DS9 is one of the few places where you can observe ships in all of their glory AND where a lot of players congregate. So you get a mosaic of currently most used ships.
When I do screenshots of ships, space over DS9 is one of the main places I go.
Hencefore, I'd call the space over DS9 a 'visual' social zone.
Now when it comes to DS9's size, I sure would love it to be adequate to canon. So DS9 should be scaled down. However, I've gotten used to a sort of 'stuborness' of some devs on certain issues. (This isn't meant against Taco or anyone in particular, not even Geko, because i don't know his stance on this.) And in fact, I understand the devs' point of view on this as I myself have found DS9 incredibly small already in the TV show. Just a couple Romulan vessels in the vicinity pretty much dwarf it and make one question how such a small station can be a trading node, a place for comparatively very large ships to dock.
So in this particular case, I blame the TV show and not really STO devs and can live with current blown out of proportion DS9.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Ah, I gotcha. I agree with that, but I do have a theory as to why he's out in Ops rather than in his office: the devs know every player is going to want the chance to sit in The Chair.
I know I've sat there.... and then promptly been replaced by another player as soon as I got up...
Regarding DS9's size; one of the things to remember is that Terak Nor was never built to be a major trading post and military Area of Operations command, far less the 'Gateway to The Gamma Quadrant" - the Cardassians built Terak Nor as an ore-processing orbital and transfer point, some fifty-nine years ago (with the roll-over into 2410). It simply wasn't built with ships the size of Scimitars, Bortasqu' cruisers and Odysseys in mind and is honestly too-small to fulfill the purpose it now serves.
The Dev Team kind of faces a catch-22 situation; the easiest way to 'fix' DS9 would be to have it blown up and replaced by a newer, Federation-built station like it was in the books - unfortunately, they can't do that because players, for the most part, don't recognise the 'new' DS9 from the books, we're familiar with the original Cardassian built station. (Remember the 'new' ESD and how it was quickly replaced via Q with the classic station?)
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
We don't know if the wormhole orbits, or if it's stationary, or what.
The wormhole does have a gravity well (it was cited as having an event horizon in one episode), so presumably it's bound by orbital mechanics like any other celestial body. And if it was "stationary", it would drift out of the Denorios Belt as time went on.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
it would be nice for them to redo Terok Nor (DS9). I could see going to the Security office to turn in contraband and or prisoners, the infirmary could also be used for station specific DoFF missions. Quark's Bar needs to be open and part of the actual promenade, the only time you see those doors closed is if he is closed (either it may be closing hours or Liquidator Brunt shuts him down) also with change to the game you can get a more accurate look for the bar as well, get rid of the large ramps. Ops needs to look more active, heck since we beam into the station, we should be starting off in OPS, now if you want us to Dock with the station we should have a new start area in the docking rings. The Bajoran Shirne looks more like a common room than a shrine. Also the Ward Room should be available like it was in the mission. as for the exterior, since we know you had to Enlarge the station, take it back down in size and have the spawn point around the station's outer docking ring, also shouldn't we be able to see Bajor from the station as well? I know the station is still in the Bajoran System, that it may be a far off shot of the planet.
Unfortunately as we can see with ESD opening the place up to create a larger space creates its own problems with graphics drops outs etc. This engine can only handle so much. The reason why Quark's doors are closed is because it's a separate map and as much as I would like to see it open to the Promenade I don't think the engine is up to the task, yes they might be able to anyway but it will be buggy just like ESD is, the same with other explorable areas, if they do create them, I can't see them as being on the same map as the main floor. As far as docking is concerned, why we even have that dialogue escapes me, since we beam in anyway the dialogue should indicate something to that effect, in fact in much of the game dialogue regarding docking is rubbish they should change since we always end up on a transporter pad or beam in somewhere.
The wormhole does have a gravity well (it was cited as having an event horizon in one episode), so presumably it's bound by orbital mechanics like any other celestial body. And if it was "stationary", it would drift out of the Denorios Belt as time went on.
Except for the fact that it's being maintained internally by the "prophet beings" who can bend spacetime around their little whatever they have for digits, so the rules don't seem to apply. They obviously appear to be maintaining it in it's locale proximate to that area of space.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Just put an invisible wall over the opened shutters in Quarks so you can SEE in but not enter through the shutters. This solves the problem of keeping it a separate map AND opening it up as it is meant to be. It also means that the entirety of the interior does not need to be rendered into the main DS9 map, only the parts visible from that angle.
Did you design the briefing room in "Second Wave," Taco? I thought I read that on here....
No, when I started on STO, most of the 2800 was done. I did a big clean up/touch up pass on the whole series, including that room, but I didn't build it originally.
No, when I started on STO, most of the 2800 was done. I did a big clean up/touch up pass on the whole series, including that room, but I didn't build it originally.
Well the way it looked when it first came out looked like something someone did in the foundry so its obvious you didn't make it lol.
The wormhole does have a gravity well (it was cited as having an event horizon in one episode), so presumably it's bound by orbital mechanics like any other celestial body. And if it was "stationary", it would drift out of the Denorios Belt as time went on.
Actually, 'event horizon' can also refer to the point of entry - the point at which you are officially inside the wormhole. This is done in Stargate, I see no reason for it to be different with the Bajoran wormhole.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
No, when I started on STO, most of the 2800 was done. I did a big clean up/touch up pass on the whole series, including that room, but I didn't build it originally.
Gotcha. Well, if the current setup (including that room) is used as a baseline for comparison... then here's hoping you will get the chance to make it BETTER sooner than later.
I know one think I'd like to see would be a single location on the upper level where you could sit like Jake and Nog used to on the show, then you get an accolade like people watching or something.
If they're going to add new 'Exploration' or 'Story' accolades to DS9, they should start with one for listening to Morn.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
I'd seriously love to see a DS9 remodel. The art in STO has been improving significantly recently, look no further than ESD. However as others have said in-game, there needs to be a reason to go to DS9 for this to become a priority. There's not really anything here you can't get elsewhere, especially since the Omega stuff got removed, so it's not going on the priority list. It may be a popular hub for that area but it doesn't gate anything & is not relevant to new content, rendering it essentially a 'would be nice' in the eyes of devs, who I'm sure like us would like it to improve but have other priorities.
I'd imagine this would be seriously looked at if the devs were going to expand into the Gamma quadrant as DS9 would all of a sudden become the portal to the new content. Maybe expansion 3+ if the Gamma quadrant gets it's own sector map as the Delta quadrant may well be getting soon will make this happen. Alternatively if they do a revamp of DS9 and the accompanying story arcs there as a mid season update we might see some improvements.
IMO the DS9 interior is generally one of the most hideous eye sores in the game. The odd spot here and there is fine, and seeing the wormhole out some of the windows is a nice touch, but the promenade is beyond awful. Add to that the generic Cardassian interiors we see in some of the Cardassian Struggle missions which are supposedly on DS9 or Empok Nor.
Here's something to consider for DS9;
More functionality. It's a major Federation facility, the gateway to the Gamma Quadrant... Image my surprise the other day when I realised something; DS9 doesn't have BOff Trainers. To train your Bridge Officers, you have to go all the way back to ESD/Qo'nos...
If DS9 became a shared 'equal' to ESD and First City, that would help give it some of that increased traffic needed to justify a revamp...
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Unfortunately as we can see with ESD opening the place up to create a larger space creates its own problems with graphics drops outs etc. This engine can only handle so much. The reason why Quark's doors are closed is because it's a separate map and as much as I would like to see it open to the Promenade I don't think the engine is up to the task
I don't think that's quite true. I agree the engine is being pushed in certain ways past its limits, but the area of ESD and the amount of detail present is many times that of the current DS9. I would love to see a better layout for DS9 -- and it doesn't have to be complete with outer docking rings, etc, but I would love to have the inner promenade with security office, etc. I'd love better and more logical layouts for the venders and whatnot. I'd love to be able to see an empty cargo bay or two with a runabout sitting there (like embassy shuttle bay areas, maybe have "shuttle to ESD" or "Shuttle to Qonos" in there as well as "Shuttle to Bajor"). I'd love to have a better representation of ops and the Commander's office, as well as a better ship selection area (maybe just model one part of the outer ring, that where you go to select ships or equipment?).
I think you can do that and keep the poly count fairly decent. I don't think it has to be totally all-out. Heck, if you HAVE to make Quark's a separate map, do it. Just make it where it should be as seen on the show. Also make the inside more like Quark's on the show.
it would be nice if ds9 got an overhaul. filling in the missing places like the infirmary, the school, the security office, etc.
also, the skins used are starting to show their age.
none of the chairs and benches are interactive.
the replicators in the replimats don't work.
the banners ought to be like the ones in the sphere space.
mail terminals sprinkled about like on bajor.
Ohh just had this crazy Idea, yes it would require them to move some mission locations, but have where the docking ring doors are be beam in locations and when you walk up to the main door it opens up into the promenade just like the way you saw them in the show.
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived" Picard to Riker
I think ive postred in this thread before or a other just like it but DS9 is most of my chars base of operations and it would be better if it looks more like DS9 from the show.
Maybe when (not if) there is a Cardassian faction, and there is more content in that area, they will remaster it. However, until then it is unlikely. Look on the bright side though. It'll only be another year or so.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
What I would like see happen is. The Overhaul of course but, story missions that would help flesh out all the new quarters. Maybe missions that let you bounty hunt a changeling and take it to DS9 cells for a daily reward. You would go to the securtiy briefing room and get quest from Odo. It could happen......
After seeing the level of work suggested for Delta Rising, I'm confident that only when a Gamma Quadrant expansion moves up the whiteboard that DS9 will stay the way it is for a while longer. When you consider the quality that the Art Team can re-create, I'll be excited for that next expansion announcement.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
After seeing the level of work suggested for Delta Rising, I'm confident that only when a Gamma Quadrant expansion moves up the whiteboard that DS9 will stay the way it is for a while longer. When you consider the quality that the Art Team can re-create, I'll be excited for that next expansion announcement.
Comments
It will be so awesome, if/when it happens.
Did you design the briefing room in "Second Wave," Taco? I thought I read that on here....
Ugh, don't even suggest this, the amount of players allowed in a single instance is already too low.
Watching the composition of the 'player fleet' over DS9 is quite captivating actually. The lighting there isn't so skewed as over Earth, Qo'nos or New Romulus (I know DS9's lighting is not very realistic in space). Over DS9 is one of the few places where you can observe ships in all of their glory AND where a lot of players congregate. So you get a mosaic of currently most used ships.
When I do screenshots of ships, space over DS9 is one of the main places I go.
Hencefore, I'd call the space over DS9 a 'visual' social zone.
Now when it comes to DS9's size, I sure would love it to be adequate to canon. So DS9 should be scaled down. However, I've gotten used to a sort of 'stuborness' of some devs on certain issues. (This isn't meant against Taco or anyone in particular, not even Geko, because i don't know his stance on this.) And in fact, I understand the devs' point of view on this as I myself have found DS9 incredibly small already in the TV show. Just a couple Romulan vessels in the vicinity pretty much dwarf it and make one question how such a small station can be a trading node, a place for comparatively very large ships to dock.
So in this particular case, I blame the TV show and not really STO devs and can live with current blown out of proportion DS9.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I know I've sat there.... and then promptly been replaced by another player as soon as I got up...
Regarding DS9's size; one of the things to remember is that Terak Nor was never built to be a major trading post and military Area of Operations command, far less the 'Gateway to The Gamma Quadrant" - the Cardassians built Terak Nor as an ore-processing orbital and transfer point, some fifty-nine years ago (with the roll-over into 2410). It simply wasn't built with ships the size of Scimitars, Bortasqu' cruisers and Odysseys in mind and is honestly too-small to fulfill the purpose it now serves.
The Dev Team kind of faces a catch-22 situation; the easiest way to 'fix' DS9 would be to have it blown up and replaced by a newer, Federation-built station like it was in the books - unfortunately, they can't do that because players, for the most part, don't recognise the 'new' DS9 from the books, we're familiar with the original Cardassian built station. (Remember the 'new' ESD and how it was quickly replaced via Q with the classic station?)
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
The wormhole does have a gravity well (it was cited as having an event horizon in one episode), so presumably it's bound by orbital mechanics like any other celestial body. And if it was "stationary", it would drift out of the Denorios Belt as time went on.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Except for the fact that it's being maintained internally by the "prophet beings" who can bend spacetime around their little whatever they have for digits, so the rules don't seem to apply. They obviously appear to be maintaining it in it's locale proximate to that area of space.
No, when I started on STO, most of the 2800 was done. I did a big clean up/touch up pass on the whole series, including that room, but I didn't build it originally.
Well the way it looked when it first came out looked like something someone did in the foundry so its obvious you didn't make it lol.
Actually, 'event horizon' can also refer to the point of entry - the point at which you are officially inside the wormhole. This is done in Stargate, I see no reason for it to be different with the Bajoran wormhole.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Gotcha. Well, if the current setup (including that room) is used as a baseline for comparison... then here's hoping you will get the chance to make it BETTER sooner than later.
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
I'd imagine this would be seriously looked at if the devs were going to expand into the Gamma quadrant as DS9 would all of a sudden become the portal to the new content. Maybe expansion 3+ if the Gamma quadrant gets it's own sector map as the Delta quadrant may well be getting soon will make this happen. Alternatively if they do a revamp of DS9 and the accompanying story arcs there as a mid season update we might see some improvements.
IMO the DS9 interior is generally one of the most hideous eye sores in the game. The odd spot here and there is fine, and seeing the wormhole out some of the windows is a nice touch, but the promenade is beyond awful. Add to that the generic Cardassian interiors we see in some of the Cardassian Struggle missions which are supposedly on DS9 or Empok Nor.
More functionality. It's a major Federation facility, the gateway to the Gamma Quadrant... Image my surprise the other day when I realised something; DS9 doesn't have BOff Trainers. To train your Bridge Officers, you have to go all the way back to ESD/Qo'nos...
If DS9 became a shared 'equal' to ESD and First City, that would help give it some of that increased traffic needed to justify a revamp...
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
I don't think that's quite true. I agree the engine is being pushed in certain ways past its limits, but the area of ESD and the amount of detail present is many times that of the current DS9. I would love to see a better layout for DS9 -- and it doesn't have to be complete with outer docking rings, etc, but I would love to have the inner promenade with security office, etc. I'd love better and more logical layouts for the venders and whatnot. I'd love to be able to see an empty cargo bay or two with a runabout sitting there (like embassy shuttle bay areas, maybe have "shuttle to ESD" or "Shuttle to Qonos" in there as well as "Shuttle to Bajor"). I'd love to have a better representation of ops and the Commander's office, as well as a better ship selection area (maybe just model one part of the outer ring, that where you go to select ships or equipment?).
I think you can do that and keep the poly count fairly decent. I don't think it has to be totally all-out. Heck, if you HAVE to make Quark's a separate map, do it. Just make it where it should be as seen on the show. Also make the inside more like Quark's on the show.
also, the skins used are starting to show their age.
none of the chairs and benches are interactive.
the replicators in the replimats don't work.
the banners ought to be like the ones in the sphere space.
mail terminals sprinkled about like on bajor.
Ohh just had this crazy Idea, yes it would require them to move some mission locations, but have where the docking ring doors are be beam in locations and when you walk up to the main door it opens up into the promenade just like the way you saw them in the show.
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived" Picard to Riker
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Time will only tell!
My character Tsin'xing