Looking at this picture, and assuming that the bridge module is at the top, between the nacelles, I would estimate the height of this ship to be at least 5 decks.
I remind you that we can't even see what's under the saucer.
that would be correct if its surface square is that of tripple size of the odddy saucer!!! argh. relative comparison guys.
only viewed to ITSELF it LOOKS correct. but in a size comparison the decks of the phantom would to be half hight as that of a galaxy. it just doesnt work.
i cant explain that. devs please send me a top view and a side view of the phantom and tell me what actual "realsize" it is supposed to be. if its lengh of the defiant, it IS TO FLAT TO HAVE more than one deck. couse while havin lengh of the defiant its quite like half its depth. and the defiant only has 3 real decks.
AND this doesnt make up the problem that this ship is supposed to have sensor drones aboard. where are they? hidden in a Pokeball or where? are they throwing those out of the windows?
the defiant isnt able to carry a single piece of technology, because its such a small ship. now you design a ship same size, half height thats supposed to have all the neat new intel aboard? where? in the captains magical pocket o0
given phantom and defiant are about same lengh and broadness:
I think what riles up most people is that those ships, that are such a drastic departure from established design traditions, are the de facto new standard, despite the claim that they are not.
many pleayers will feel pressured into buying them to stay competitive with those new intelligence powers and other benefits.
That means these ships will visually dominate Earth orbit more than any lockbox ship ever did.
And that destroys the comfortable Star Trek look and immersion.
The Guardian Cruiser is the exact opposite. it is very derivative of TNG designs, but the concept art still looks a bit clunky similar to how the Avenger came out. So it won't win any beauty prices either.
I think what is sorely needed at this point is a new batch of "Iconic Star Trek Ships" to appease the hardcore trekkies among us.
Starfleet ships that evoke a sense of grace we all know and love from the Constitution or Galaxy class.
We'd still like to fly our hero ships from the shows and movies.
if we'd want generic sci-fi this might not be the game we'd play.
I think what riles up most people is that those ships, that are such a drastic departure from established design traditions, are the de facto new standard, despite the claim that they are not.
many pleayers will feel pressured into buying them to stay competitive with those new intelligence powers and other benefits.
That means these ships will visually dominate Earth orbit more than any lockbox ship ever did.
And that destroys the comfortable Star Trek look and immersion.
and all the lockbox non Federation ships in Earth Orbit hasn't already done this?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I think what riles up most people is that those ships, that are such a drastic departure from established design traditions, are the de facto new standard,
Uh they're not. If they were why would we be getting the Guardian cruiser?
From what I have seen there have been no reference points in any of the photos so the Phantom could be large enough to have Scimitars for shuttles for all we know. Without those reference points saying the Phantom is not thick enough to have more than 1 deck is wrong but that is your opinion and you are welcome to it.
Davideight, in regards to your question WHY these ships are intentionally different...
To put it simply, that is the point; that they aren't the standard Trek feel.
To explain it more, The Federation design aesthetic is well-established - and the majority will always be like that even as things evolve. But it does mean Every. Single. Ship. has to conform to these aesthetics. The majority yes, but not ships designed for purposes that aren't the usual Starfleet policy, such as the new Intelligence ships.
Example: The Defiant was not the usual saucer, hull, and nacelles when it debuted - now it's standard. And on a lesser scale, the Galaxy was sorta hated upon it's debut, being 'ugly' and 'bulky' - now many love it. This is very little different, debutting new classes that we're not sure about yet, and have yet to get used to.
The new Intelligence designs are few and far between story-wise, leading the newest spearhead, but they are not the majority of the fleets that are already operating. And until decades have gone by with in-universe feedback, they won't be the new overwhelming asethetic either. It may appear to be that way when Delta Rising goes live due to player interest (one way or the other), but it may not stay that way
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
this ship is derived from the defiant. right? were all on same page till here.
why should that ship be olike 400 meteres, when the defiant, its derived from, is 170m long?
defiant: 170m long, 130m broad, 30 metres high. 30metres make roughly 4 decks (one of it beeing only the shuttlebay area lower side).
this phantom is nearly same size (given the fact it is derived from the defiant and therefore its UNLIKELY AS HELL, that it will be about 600m long ...), but it defenetely is only half as high. its visible.
so thats 15metres, so that equals approx 2 decks maximum.
now TRIBBLE tell me: when the defiant was to small to carry ANY DAMN technology (its a bare warship) where is all the neat intel tech placed in that 2 deck "shuttle" then?
in a STAR TREK GAME .. sounds quite not logical to me.
That still does not prohibit them (the devs, or the in-story Starfleet Corps of Engineers) from trying diversity, creativity and new design aesthetics every now and then. Like I said, these new designs are still the newest ships to spearhead a newest specific effort; they haven't replaced the aesthetic or the operating fleets, they're just serving a purpose.
Still, Dr McCoy wouldn't be surprised: "I know engineers; they love to change things!" XD
...and btw, what if your relative distance estimates of the ships' sizes are way off? (Humor me)
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
this ship is derived from the defiant. right? were all on same page till here.
why should that ship be olike 400 meteres, when the defiant, its derived from, is 170m long?
defiant: 170m long, 130m broad, 30 metres high. 30metres make roughly 4 decks (one of it beeing only the shuttlebay area lower side).
this phantom is nearly same size (given the fact it is derived from the defiant and therefore its UNLIKELY AS HELL, that it will be about 600m long ...), but it defenetely is only half as high. its visible.
so thats 15metres, so that equals approx 2 decks maximum.
now TRIBBLE tell me: when the defiant was to small to carry ANY DAMN technology (its a bare warship) where is all the neat intel tech placed in that 2 deck "shuttle" then?
Watch the language and tone please. Have a discussion, not a heated argument.
The Phantom is much larger then what you are suggesting. You are jumping to conclusions.
Nick "Crypticquack" Quackenbush
33.33% of the STO Ship Art team.
100% of the new guys on the STO Ship Art team.
this ship is derived from the defiant. right? were all on same page till here.
why should that ship be olike 400 meteres, when the defiant, its derived from, is 170m long?
defiant: 170m long, 130m broad, 30 metres high. 30metres make roughly 4 decks (one of it beeing only the shuttlebay area lower side).
this phantom is nearly same size (given the fact it is derived from the defiant and therefore its UNLIKELY AS HELL, that it will be about 600m long ...), but it defenetely is only half as high. its visible.
so thats 15metres, so that equals approx 2 decks maximum.
now TRIBBLE tell me: when the defiant was to small to carry ANY DAMN technology (its a bare warship) where is all the neat intel tech placed in that 2 deck "shuttle" then?
You know, I keep looking at its appearance in the trailer, and it seems way bigger than a defiant. It's flying with a Scimitar, and doesn't seem to lose all that much to it really.
The defiant at least had the same kind of visible details as boats that came before them. The new intel boats look as if they come from another galaxy or franchise.
Seriously? I see Saucer and Quad Nacelles in one, and a Defiant evolution in the other.
The color scheme is completely different, of course. But the ships definitely look like they are based on Starfleet designs.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
okay. so that ship is like ... 600 metres long then (that would make it have 4-6 decks then)? wow thats quite "stealthy" then ^^ isnt the other ship supposed to be the cruiser? did i miss sth? the eclipse is the cruiser, right. im talking about the phantom, so its a ship 600m long as intel ESCORT ???
I feel people are jumping to conclusions way too early with the federation designs. I'd advise wait until they are actually usable in the game before you jump to conclusions.
I've been away taking a walk, digesting the discussion thus far. A word came to me to describe the t6 fed "intelligence" boats. "Gratuitous".
I feel that if the glows were toned down on all of them there wouldn't be quite so much of a problem for me. These are supposed to be S31 covert action boats after all. Massive glows tend to run against the ideas of "covert" and "stealth".
The sci intel boat has the additional problem of having massive cut outs in the saucer. Well, not cut outs but huge gaps that would make damage control more problematic as well as being an inefficient use of a given volume of space. I feel that it would make much more sense if it were a more conventional, but much smaller saucer kind of hull rather than the return to the "Shi Kahr"-esque chunked saucer.
Imo, the fed intel cruiser looks like the nacelles are super thin by comparison with the rest of the boat from what I've seen. I think making them a little fatter and more like the nacelles of the avenger would help a lot.
Basically, I feel that being "intelligence" (aka covert ops) boats, these should be less showy and more functional. Really, I think they should be more along the lines of the avenger i.e. no frills, efficient and a little visually bulky/clunky but not showy or "gratuitous". If these were designed for S31, or derived from S31 designs then they should reflect that visually.
if people ignore my hard fact arguments, i can loose myself, sry for that.
but now maybe explain me, how a ship as long as defiant, as broad as defiant, half hight of defiant, can bear so much intel tech, while its said in the show, that the defiant only has less than necessary equipment and tech aboard.
please explain it.
(add: if this ship wants to have same room than the defiant, it would have to be approx 400m long, (its clearly visible its hight is half the defiants, relatively!) for having 4 decks, and 600m long to have 6decks and thereby more room.)
I think that's the problem; you view them as facts, when they're not to many of us (opinions are flexible like that)
Also, you assume the newer ship is that size, but what if it isn't? For any reason? What happens then?
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
okay. so that ship is like ... 600 metres long then (that would make it have 4-6 decks then)? wow thats quite "stealthy" then ^^ isnt the other ship supposed to be the cruiser? did i miss sth? the eclipse is the cruiser, right. im talking about the phantom, so its a ship 600m long as intel ESCORT ???
its not getting more plausible here ;-)
All I can say is relax. Everything you have assumed is incorrect. Take a breather.
Nick "Crypticquack" Quackenbush
33.33% of the STO Ship Art team.
100% of the new guys on the STO Ship Art team.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
its called an INTEL ESCORT, while the OTHER is the cruiser o0 of course i suggest or conclude its SMALL(er than the cruiser)
o0 its not that my conclusions are totally of the line. yours are, or the design intention is.
a) its derived from defiant. defiant is 170m
b) its called escort (esc are smaller usually than cruisers)
c) theres a cruiser in that list, that IS a cruiser and MUSt be bigger, cause otherwise wed talk about its deck amount.
d) even if this ship is "bigger": given the fact it is SO SLEEK and thin (thin is meaning lengh-broad-depth relation), it must be 800mx600metres just to be "thick enough to have 5-6 decks.
thats basically the core of my critique. a ship with 4 decks was to small to even carry most necessary things, but a flat ship that has 5 decks suddenly has all the neat things in it?
I'm a lifelong Trekkie, and I think there are few things finer than a movie-era Constitution class starship (like the NCC-1701A). Likewise, the Galaxy had her charms, of course.
And while I'll reserve my "love" of these new Federation ships until I see more pictures/see them in the game, I can already now say that I'm one of the people who really LIKES the new Intelligence ships. I think they've got a "sleekness" to them that sets them ahead of canon ships, and rightly so, as we're decades of ahead of those. Especially when we consider these are a new type of ship.
Reminds me of how a 21st Century F-35 fighter jet differs in appearance from a 20th Century F-15.
I give a thumbs up to the STO Ship Design Team.
Anyway, that's my 2-cents worth.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
okay. so that ship is like ... 600 metres long then (that would make it have 4-6 decks then)? wow thats quite "stealthy" then ^^ isnt the other ship supposed to be the cruiser? did i miss sth? the eclipse is the cruiser, right. im talking about the phantom, so its a ship 600m long as intel ESCORT ???
its not getting more plausible here ;-)
To be fair, the Eclipse looks absolutely huge in the trailer. That's largely because of the nacelles of course; but still, compared to the other ships it appears alongside, it's a giant.
The Phantom... well it only appears once; but just from that one appearance, I could easily believe it to be 500 meters or more. It isn't a small ship.
Continuity helps a story grow beyond itself by inclusion of a broader universe.
As a child of the 80's I grew up with Original series Re-runs, and the beginning of the Next Generation. I can remember disliking the "New" Enterprise, the Galaxy, because of how far it departed from what I loved.
As a kid, and even as an adult I can recognize that one of the things I loved most about Star Trek was when another Federation ship was involved. It showed there was more than just the Enterprise. In the Doomsday Machine when they have the other Connie, all battered and broken. When the Reliant first came on screen in Wrath of Khan. Seriously some of my favorite stuff. It really showed that the fleet had it together with similar designs, and that there was a Federation outside of the Captain and his Iconic crew.
When you look at a Modern US Naval Battle Group, with Carriers and picket ships, it looks pretty uniform, and you recognize, without having to be a citizen of that countries group, that they are together, and not a hodge podge fleet put together from whatever was laying around.
The Modern Marvel Films are all set in a contiguous universe where each ties into the other and we would be happily surprised if Thor made a guest appearance in an Iron Man film.
The new ship designs are a departure from a departure. Perhaps there is a story element I'm not familiar with. Is it simply that they have finally adopted Tech from the Caitians and have applied a superior hull to their new ships? Going by the stories, the modern versions of Phasers were adapted and advanced from the superior Andorian versions, and shields from Vulcans in the early days of the Federation.
Complaining of the departure in design to me is a null point though in these days when the Starfleet of the Federation of Planets has Captains flying ships they've purchased from Ferenghi or won racing surfboards on Risa, while wearing whatever clothes they feel like instead of the Starfleet Uniform that used to be required...
Comments
that would be correct if its surface square is that of tripple size of the odddy saucer!!! argh. relative comparison guys.
only viewed to ITSELF it LOOKS correct. but in a size comparison the decks of the phantom would to be half hight as that of a galaxy. it just doesnt work.
i cant explain that. devs please send me a top view and a side view of the phantom and tell me what actual "realsize" it is supposed to be. if its lengh of the defiant, it IS TO FLAT TO HAVE more than one deck. couse while havin lengh of the defiant its quite like half its depth. and the defiant only has 3 real decks.
AND this doesnt make up the problem that this ship is supposed to have sensor drones aboard. where are they? hidden in a Pokeball or where? are they throwing those out of the windows?
the defiant isnt able to carry a single piece of technology, because its such a small ship. now you design a ship same size, half height thats supposed to have all the neat new intel aboard? where? in the captains magical pocket o0
given phantom and defiant are about same lengh and broadness:
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3734/inf7gcje_jpg.htm
this happens.
if you are right mate, this ship must be double lengh and bradness of a defiant, it doesnt look that way though.
many pleayers will feel pressured into buying them to stay competitive with those new intelligence powers and other benefits.
That means these ships will visually dominate Earth orbit more than any lockbox ship ever did.
And that destroys the comfortable Star Trek look and immersion.
The Guardian Cruiser is the exact opposite. it is very derivative of TNG designs, but the concept art still looks a bit clunky similar to how the Avenger came out. So it won't win any beauty prices either.
I think what is sorely needed at this point is a new batch of "Iconic Star Trek Ships" to appease the hardcore trekkies among us.
Starfleet ships that evoke a sense of grace we all know and love from the Constitution or Galaxy class.
We'd still like to fly our hero ships from the shows and movies.
if we'd want generic sci-fi this might not be the game we'd play.
and all the lockbox non Federation ships in Earth Orbit hasn't already done this?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Uh they're not. If they were why would we be getting the Guardian cruiser?
To put it simply, that is the point; that they aren't the standard Trek feel.
To explain it more, The Federation design aesthetic is well-established - and the majority will always be like that even as things evolve. But it does mean Every. Single. Ship. has to conform to these aesthetics. The majority yes, but not ships designed for purposes that aren't the usual Starfleet policy, such as the new Intelligence ships.
Example: The Defiant was not the usual saucer, hull, and nacelles when it debuted - now it's standard. And on a lesser scale, the Galaxy was sorta hated upon it's debut, being 'ugly' and 'bulky' - now many love it. This is very little different, debutting new classes that we're not sure about yet, and have yet to get used to.
The new Intelligence designs are few and far between story-wise, leading the newest spearhead, but they are not the majority of the fleets that are already operating. And until decades have gone by with in-universe feedback, they won't be the new overwhelming asethetic either. It may appear to be that way when Delta Rising goes live due to player interest (one way or the other), but it may not stay that way
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Actually the vast majority of lockbox ships are canon Star Trek ships, or derivative from canon designs.
this ship is derived from the defiant. right? were all on same page till here.
why should that ship be olike 400 meteres, when the defiant, its derived from, is 170m long?
defiant: 170m long, 130m broad, 30 metres high. 30metres make roughly 4 decks (one of it beeing only the shuttlebay area lower side).
this phantom is nearly same size (given the fact it is derived from the defiant and therefore its UNLIKELY AS HELL, that it will be about 600m long ...), but it defenetely is only half as high. its visible.
so thats 15metres, so that equals approx 2 decks maximum.
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3734/inf7gcje_jpg.htm
okay. thats the maindeck, and the bridge.
now TRIBBLE tell me: when the defiant was to small to carry ANY DAMN technology (its a bare warship) where is all the neat intel tech placed in that 2 deck "shuttle" then?
in a STAR TREK GAME .. sounds quite not logical to me.
Still, Dr McCoy wouldn't be surprised: "I know engineers; they love to change things!" XD
...and btw, what if your relative distance estimates of the ships' sizes are way off? (Humor me)
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Watch the language and tone please. Have a discussion, not a heated argument.
The Phantom is much larger then what you are suggesting. You are jumping to conclusions.
33.33% of the STO Ship Art team.
100% of the new guys on the STO Ship Art team.
You know, I keep looking at its appearance in the trailer, and it seems way bigger than a defiant. It's flying with a Scimitar, and doesn't seem to lose all that much to it really.
The color scheme is completely different, of course. But the ships definitely look like they are based on Starfleet designs.
its not getting more plausible here ;-)
That said, I like all the designs.
I feel that if the glows were toned down on all of them there wouldn't be quite so much of a problem for me. These are supposed to be S31 covert action boats after all. Massive glows tend to run against the ideas of "covert" and "stealth".
The sci intel boat has the additional problem of having massive cut outs in the saucer. Well, not cut outs but huge gaps that would make damage control more problematic as well as being an inefficient use of a given volume of space. I feel that it would make much more sense if it were a more conventional, but much smaller saucer kind of hull rather than the return to the "Shi Kahr"-esque chunked saucer.
Imo, the fed intel cruiser looks like the nacelles are super thin by comparison with the rest of the boat from what I've seen. I think making them a little fatter and more like the nacelles of the avenger would help a lot.
Basically, I feel that being "intelligence" (aka covert ops) boats, these should be less showy and more functional. Really, I think they should be more along the lines of the avenger i.e. no frills, efficient and a little visually bulky/clunky but not showy or "gratuitous". If these were designed for S31, or derived from S31 designs then they should reflect that visually.
Also, you assume the newer ship is that size, but what if it isn't? For any reason? What happens then?
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
All I can say is relax. Everything you have assumed is incorrect. Take a breather.
33.33% of the STO Ship Art team.
100% of the new guys on the STO Ship Art team.
I made that assumption as well, based on its hull configuration. I was aware that I could be wrong about that, though.
Without much visual evidence to go on, it's very easy to make false assumptions. Some size clarifications would be nice?
33.33% of the STO Ship Art team.
100% of the new guys on the STO Ship Art team.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
o0 its not that my conclusions are totally of the line. yours are, or the design intention is.
a) its derived from defiant. defiant is 170m
b) its called escort (esc are smaller usually than cruisers)
c) theres a cruiser in that list, that IS a cruiser and MUSt be bigger, cause otherwise wed talk about its deck amount.
d) even if this ship is "bigger": given the fact it is SO SLEEK and thin (thin is meaning lengh-broad-depth relation), it must be 800mx600metres just to be "thick enough to have 5-6 decks.
thats basically the core of my critique. a ship with 4 decks was to small to even carry most necessary things, but a flat ship that has 5 decks suddenly has all the neat things in it?
sry i dont buy that.
Oh, you tease :P
And while I'll reserve my "love" of these new Federation ships until I see more pictures/see them in the game, I can already now say that I'm one of the people who really LIKES the new Intelligence ships. I think they've got a "sleekness" to them that sets them ahead of canon ships, and rightly so, as we're decades of ahead of those. Especially when we consider these are a new type of ship.
Reminds me of how a 21st Century F-35 fighter jet differs in appearance from a 20th Century F-15.
I give a thumbs up to the STO Ship Design Team.
Anyway, that's my 2-cents worth.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
To be fair, the Eclipse looks absolutely huge in the trailer. That's largely because of the nacelles of course; but still, compared to the other ships it appears alongside, it's a giant.
The Phantom... well it only appears once; but just from that one appearance, I could easily believe it to be 500 meters or more. It isn't a small ship.
As a child of the 80's I grew up with Original series Re-runs, and the beginning of the Next Generation. I can remember disliking the "New" Enterprise, the Galaxy, because of how far it departed from what I loved.
As a kid, and even as an adult I can recognize that one of the things I loved most about Star Trek was when another Federation ship was involved. It showed there was more than just the Enterprise. In the Doomsday Machine when they have the other Connie, all battered and broken. When the Reliant first came on screen in Wrath of Khan. Seriously some of my favorite stuff. It really showed that the fleet had it together with similar designs, and that there was a Federation outside of the Captain and his Iconic crew.
When you look at a Modern US Naval Battle Group, with Carriers and picket ships, it looks pretty uniform, and you recognize, without having to be a citizen of that countries group, that they are together, and not a hodge podge fleet put together from whatever was laying around.
The Modern Marvel Films are all set in a contiguous universe where each ties into the other and we would be happily surprised if Thor made a guest appearance in an Iron Man film.
The new ship designs are a departure from a departure. Perhaps there is a story element I'm not familiar with. Is it simply that they have finally adopted Tech from the Caitians and have applied a superior hull to their new ships? Going by the stories, the modern versions of Phasers were adapted and advanced from the superior Andorian versions, and shields from Vulcans in the early days of the Federation.
Complaining of the departure in design to me is a null point though in these days when the Starfleet of the Federation of Planets has Captains flying ships they've purchased from Ferenghi or won racing surfboards on Risa, while wearing whatever clothes they feel like instead of the Starfleet Uniform that used to be required...
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33.33% of the STO Ship Art team.
100% of the new guys on the STO Ship Art team.
okay so its bigger. so 600m approx to have 6 decks i guess not ...
now im fine for the moment, and now know i wont buy an "intel escort" that flat and wide. its not an intel escort then, its ... i donno ,-)
but thank for the clarification on its size.