It's fine, I know coming here will get my case jumped on, I elect to do it.
They'd better be paying you well for the job dude :P
But seriously, it's great to see some dev action on the forum about this.
With that said, I am going to keep going back to saying that we know that we have created fed designs that are at the extreme end. But that is by design. We can do plenty of classic canon style ships and again, that is something I personally push for, but ship diversity is part of the reason for the games success.
Of course there is such a thing as 'going to far', but we are all professionals in this building and care deeply about our game. So that discussion happens often and early. Again, the forums are a vocal minority of our players and we have to cater to a very large audience who are mostly silent with wildly different views on what is 'cool'.
I can appreciate you guys have gone for an "extreme" vibe with these fed boats, but they're just a bit too much. Would there be any way to get some slightly more traditionally biased designs going for these? Perhaps as alternate skins like we had in the old days?
As an example I just read criticism that the Guardian is TOO canonical styled right next to a post criticizing the intel ship designs for being TOO NON canonical. We have a tough balance to achieve here with our diversity and it is something that we consider more then the forums are willing to give us credit for.
Your job is not one I envy, I have to admit.
I think you got the balance dead on with the klinks and the roms. You guys and gals should be proud of those. The guardian cruiser looks nifty too. May I ask, was it inspired by the Probert Ambassador class concept?
Also, the Intel ships are non-standard ships...
In lore perhaps, but they will effectively be standard before too long especially if the stats are a big jump over the previous t5+ boats.
The defiant at least had the same kind of visible details as boats that came before them. The new intel boats look as if they come from another galaxy or franchise.
There's this one thing that is bugging me however. I think "Intelligence" is a bit of a misnomer for these boats. So far, intelligence gathering ships (In the real world now) have been small converted freighters and the like. I think it would be more accurate to compare these with some kind of cutting edge ship, or one of the US navy submarines that have the Dry Deck Shelter (DDS) for divers to use in covert ops.
At least, "covert ops" is the vibe we're supposed to be getting, right?
Going with your line of thinking (which I am in complete agreement with).
An Intrepid Class is designed for "long range, tactical assignments". It is now 30+ years since Voyager's return, Starfleet has been outfitted with Quantum Slipstream technologies, gained access to things like Ablative Hull Armor, and Transphasic Torpedoes. Would it be completely out of the range of possibility, to think that Starfleet (or Section 31) took ships like the Intrepid design, built or refitted an older Intrepid, with some of their newer technologies, added a new hull material designed for stealth, and adding a Cloaking Device, and improved sensors?
Why change the overall shape and design of a line of ships so drastically, just because you slap the "Intelligence" label onto them? An Intrepid with a new hull material, and new nacelles would've worked just fine as an Intelligence class of ship. Similarly with several other canon ships.
thats sounds like dwarven gimli falling from the horse in lotr. sry.
you design ships that 50%++++ of the fanbase doesnt LIKE ON PURPOSE?! thats rethorical nonsense to justify another goal im revealing later in that text.
those ships are not at a far end of design table - they have already fallen from the edge of the table. its to much. to much change to fit into starfleet or section31. (and just for the sake of argument. why arent the kdf and rom ship so completely different then?!)
____
my tip to "rescue" these ships:
please offer some material6 on those. it will make it more starfleet/trek overall, even though those are not supposed to be "starfleet". please please.
second: please make the phantom intel ship more "less thin" - like i said. this ship is to thin to heave even ONE DECK. its just wrong engineering wise, not "just aesthetically" please just correct that. stretching a model one axis cant be that hard.
my most dislike is the eclipse. i cant even explain. its to thin, to sleek, so sleek it will break into pieces. the "saucer" is more like sth from starwars, than from federation/starfleet.
if you dont see this, you are not into federation design. this IS a starwars noobian cruiser.
making the saucer less forward thin-stretched would be a solution.
i really wonder that cbs approved this while holding back a t5 conny remake on the other hand ...
now to the reason behind this mess:
i think those ships are to attract non startrek fans into the game (by making connections to other franchises like tron and starwars) by sacrificing the true startrekfans. and thats dissappointing in every way.
sry if this is overly harsh but im not liking to see STO going statrekwarstron online.
you just altered to much elements on one ship in a to short period. - please for the sake of "reelection", take a step back and reverse that policy
those ships look NOTHIN like startrek or starfleet. and its only with your starfleet designs somehow. its like you "play" with this a lot more than with kdf/rom. and you dont end up well with it.
In your opinion I'm not sure why that is so hard to comprehend. I see the Starfleet design evolution in the new ships. You do not. but saying they are nothing like Star Trek or Star Fleet is 100% your issue.
Your comment is like saying Chicken taste horrible with BBQ sauce on it. It doesn't look like or taste like chicken. Other though like the BBQ chicken...
No one is wrong its a opinion not fact.
You do not like it fine.. but saying its not Starfleet as if your opinion is fact is just plain wrong. You cant see the Starfleet evolution with the ship design fine that's your problem.. Many of us do see how they came up with the designs.
As I have said many times I think a lot has to do with the coloring not the ship designs them self's. but that's my opinion.
I can appreciate you guys have gone for an "extreme" vibe with these fed boats, but they're just a bit too much. Would there be any way to get some slightly more traditionally biased designs going for these? Perhaps as alternate skins like we had in the old days?
Your job is not one I envy, I have to admit.
I think you got the balance dead on with the klinks and the roms. You guys and gals should be proud of those. The guardian cruiser looks nifty too. May I ask, was it inspired by the Probert Ambassador class concept?
In lore perhaps, but they will effectively be standard before too long especially if the stats are a big jump over the previous t5+ boats.
Great job on the Klink and rom designs
The intel ships have been designed from the ground up to look specifically this way. To look different then any other ship design. They have the base mechanics of the regular ships, but have shape language befitting the design.
The design of our ships come from a combination of our designers, our art director, the concept artist and us on the ship team. Rarely do we point to 1 ship and say "this is what it should be like", the process is much more organic and iterative.
Nick "Crypticquack" Quackenbush
33.33% of the STO Ship Art team.
100% of the new guys on the STO Ship Art team.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
The intel ships have been designed from the ground up to look specifically this way. To look different then any other ship design. They have the base mechanics of the regular ships, but have shape language befitting the design.
The design of our ships come from a combination of our designers, our art director, the concept artist and us on the ship team. Rarely do we point to 1 ship and say "this is what it should be like", the process is much more organic and iterative.
I'll be honest and this is just my opinion on looks of the ships I actually love how the federation ones look. Although I would have rather you guys made the raptor look or share a lot of the characteristics that the battle cruiser for the klingon side has or atleast maybe make an option so that we can do that.
The intel ships have been designed from the ground up to look specifically this way. To look different then any other ship design. They have the base mechanics of the regular ships, but have shape language befitting the design.
The design of our ships come from a combination of our designers, our art director, the concept artist and us on the ship team. Rarely do we point to 1 ship and say "this is what it should be like", the process is much more organic and iterative.
Already asked, but I'll ask again: Are there any more "canon" looking ships planned for Tier 6 at Delta Rising launch?
I really hope there are the standard costumes unlocked for them instead of this dark material...it may look "intelligence-ish" but really makes it harder to recognize as a FED ship.
The weird part is why the FED ships needed to to look completely different and "innovative" while the ROM and KDF ships remain clearly recognizable as faction ships.
again: why do you design ships that are NON TREK on PURPOSE within a TREK franchise?!
i cant get that. wheres the logic in this? if you want to experiment with cool random designes, go to a generic game isntead. this is
STAR TREK ONLINE
not TRON online, not Starwars, no. its STAR TREK. all ships you do have to be recognized as belonging to that damn universe we're at.
the worst part is, that the new mechanics arte LINKED to that designs. if they werent id just let them pass but ... basically this expension has died for me now.
and like i said, i can pinpoint what makes these ships not look and feel like starfleet or trek, so its not a mere opinion, also i have many arguments besides aesthetics.
again i will explain why the damn phantom is to flat:
a) its derived from the defiant. therefore it will roughly have the same basic size, correct? it wond be a flat square million kilometres suddenly. so.
b) now given the relation of the comparable lengh times broadness of a defiant it derives from, the HIGHT is SO SMALL RELATIVELY, that the DECK is TO SMALL TO:
bear technology, then hull-platin AND a one-deck- room thats at least 2m in hight. its
IMPOSSIBLE ENGINEERING WISE.
if sth is impossible engineering wise, its not an opinion. again you can "design" a house only 1m hight, but we all AGREE that its impossible for that house to have rooms within it, where a human could stand, right?
i think ill make a rough picture to show you why the relative size strongly SUGGESTS that this ship (the phantom) would only have ONE deck and one deck only, if ever. and noone would actually do that -.-'
a designer may design that, but no engineer would BUILDTHAT.
The weird part is why the FED ships needed to to look completely different and "innovative" while the ROM and KDF ships remain clearly recognizable as faction ships.
I dunno, in terms of hull configuration, I think the Intelligence ships look "Fed" enough.
The escort looks very much like a Defiant.
The science ship looks a lot like a Nova, with a very eccentric saucer.
The cruiser is perhaps the biggest departure, but overall has a large saucer, a deflector at the leading edge, and clear (though unusual) nacelles.
The hull material seems to be the biggest sticking point of a lot of people here.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
The intel ships have been designed from the ground up to look specifically this way. To look different then any other ship design. They have the base mechanics of the regular ships, but have shape language befitting the design.
The design of our ships come from a combination of our designers, our art director, the concept artist and us on the ship team. Rarely do we point to 1 ship and say "this is what it should be like", the process is much more organic and iterative.
Is it me or is the Scryer Intel Science Vessel based on the perpetual science ship concept art as the saucer shape is almost identical?
I know the Aquarius Destroyer is also an older design, the Sacagawea class concept art
"I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
I posted this on Reddit and figured it was apt here.
Just a little nugget of information to chew on, we design ships for everyone, not for 1 specific group of people.
I love the shapes and lines of canon Star Trek ships, but there are plenty, some might say tons, of players that enjoy designs that stray from the standard Star Trek path.
With that said, I feel we can do a better job at getting the traditional Star Trek feeling into ships and I actively advocate for it.
No matter what ship we make or how it looks, it won't be good enough for some people. At the end of the day you can only do so much with two nacelles a saucer and a hull in a specific configuration.
If every ship we ever made was a slight variant of a canon ship, the game would have no ship diversity, which might be fine for the vocal minority group of players that want STO to be pure canon, but would not maintain the silent majority of players that enjoy diversity.
Again, we want to respect canon and canon-style as much as possible, but diversity is also important.
I have to wonder if it's really the "silent majority" that wants a change, or if it's bored devs tired of making the same thing. Frankly I find it hard to believe that the majority of the community is tired of the traditional design of Fed ships and not voicing it.
I myself belong to 3 of the largest fleets in game (Caspian Rising, Stonewall and SSOG) and I've heard no complaints about the fed ships. In fact most of us have been praising some of the post Odyssey additions. The only complaint I HAVE heard is that we should have more canon designs. Which is why I can't wrap my head around you saying that the "majority" wants something new...
I myself belong to 3 of the largest fleets in game (Caspian Rising, Stonewall and SSOG) and I've heard no complaints about the fed ships. In fact most of us have been praising some of the post Odyssey additions. The only complaint I HAVE heard is that we should have more canon designs. Which is why I can't wrap my head around you saying that the "majority" wants something new...
I agree that talking about the "silent majority" is always a slippery slope, since it's impossible to prove. It's true that the majority of the playerbase is silent, but we shouldn't presume to know what they want one way or the other.
That said, there are players who are really into at least one of the Intelligence ship designs, if not all three. Personally, I like the escort a lot.
As for canon ships...there are not too many canon ships left that aren't in the game. I'd always support more canon variants, though.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
The only issue I have with the Starfleet ships is the hull texturing, namely that the plating doesn't look Starfleet, whereas both the KDF and Romulan ships generally fit in with their factions previous looks. But with the Starfleet ships here, there's a distinct lack of things like noticeable yellow/orange coloured RCS thrusters and Starlfeet decals on these vessels. I'd even say that removing the usual red/orange bussard collector colour detracts a little further.
again i will explain why the damn phantom is to flat:
a) its derived from the defiant. therefore it will roughly have the same basic size, correct? it wond be a flat square million kilometres suddenly. so.
b) now given the relation of the comparable lengh times broadness of a defiant it derives from, the HIGHT is SO SMALL RELATIVELY, that the DECK is TO SMALL TO:
bear technology, then hull-platin AND a one-deck- room thats at least 2m in hight. its
IMPOSSIBLE ENGINEERING WISE.
Looking at this picture, and assuming that the bridge module is at the top, between the nacelles, I would estimate the height of this ship to be at least 5 decks.
I remind you that we can't even see what's under the saucer.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
I agree that talking about the "silent majority" is always a slippery slope, since it's impossible to prove. It's true that the majority of the playerbase is silent, but we shouldn't presume to know what they want one way or the other.
That said, there are players who are really into at least one of the Intelligence ship designs, if not all three. Personally, I like the escort a lot.
As for canon ships...there are not too many canon ships left that aren't in the game. I'd always support more canon variants, though.
That's simply the law of average. There is always bound to be at leas one person that likes something someone else doesn't.
was there really any doubt since there is evidence that the Voyager may be T6. Just like when Fleet rolled around and they started giving us Fleet Canon ships...i have no doubt in my mind that down the road we will see canon T6 ships.
and the T6 ships look different because of them being a different class of ship...in the same way submarines don't look like battleships which don't look like aircraft carriers which don't look like destroyers.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
As for canon ships...there are not too many canon ships left that aren't in the game. I'd always support more canon variants, though.
Well then it should be rather simple, shouldn't it?
Bellerophon, Venture, Sao Paolo, Regent, Odyssey, Armitage, Thunderchild to name a few, are designs that are definitely 2409/2410. Yet NONE of which will be allowed a full upgrade to Tier 6. The Odyssey was the flagship of the fleet in 2409, and in 2410, it's suddenly out of date?
Likewise, we have several non-canon variants at lower tiers that could certainly be considered in the "2409 category" of ships: Ushaan, Rapier, Excalibur, Vesper, Aurora, Quasar, even the Rhode Island (Captain Kim's ship in 2404)
Again, none of which have Tier 6 variants announced, or as far as I know, even planned for possible upgrading to full Tier 6.
Comments
They'd better be paying you well for the job dude :P
But seriously, it's great to see some dev action on the forum about this.
I can appreciate you guys have gone for an "extreme" vibe with these fed boats, but they're just a bit too much. Would there be any way to get some slightly more traditionally biased designs going for these? Perhaps as alternate skins like we had in the old days?
Your job is not one I envy, I have to admit.
I think you got the balance dead on with the klinks and the roms. You guys and gals should be proud of those. The guardian cruiser looks nifty too. May I ask, was it inspired by the Probert Ambassador class concept?
In lore perhaps, but they will effectively be standard before too long especially if the stats are a big jump over the previous t5+ boats.
Great job on the Klink and rom designs
Going with your line of thinking (which I am in complete agreement with).
An Intrepid Class is designed for "long range, tactical assignments". It is now 30+ years since Voyager's return, Starfleet has been outfitted with Quantum Slipstream technologies, gained access to things like Ablative Hull Armor, and Transphasic Torpedoes. Would it be completely out of the range of possibility, to think that Starfleet (or Section 31) took ships like the Intrepid design, built or refitted an older Intrepid, with some of their newer technologies, added a new hull material designed for stealth, and adding a Cloaking Device, and improved sensors?
Why change the overall shape and design of a line of ships so drastically, just because you slap the "Intelligence" label onto them? An Intrepid with a new hull material, and new nacelles would've worked just fine as an Intelligence class of ship. Similarly with several other canon ships.
thats sounds like dwarven gimli falling from the horse in lotr. sry.
you design ships that 50%++++ of the fanbase doesnt LIKE ON PURPOSE?! thats rethorical nonsense to justify another goal im revealing later in that text.
those ships are not at a far end of design table - they have already fallen from the edge of the table. its to much. to much change to fit into starfleet or section31. (and just for the sake of argument. why arent the kdf and rom ship so completely different then?!)
____
my tip to "rescue" these ships:
please offer some material6 on those. it will make it more starfleet/trek overall, even though those are not supposed to be "starfleet". please please.
second: please make the phantom intel ship more "less thin" - like i said. this ship is to thin to heave even ONE DECK. its just wrong engineering wise, not "just aesthetically" please just correct that. stretching a model one axis cant be that hard.
my most dislike is the eclipse. i cant even explain. its to thin, to sleek, so sleek it will break into pieces. the "saucer" is more like sth from starwars, than from federation/starfleet.
if you dont see this, you are not into federation design. this IS a starwars noobian cruiser.
making the saucer less forward thin-stretched would be a solution.
i really wonder that cbs approved this while holding back a t5 conny remake on the other hand ...
now to the reason behind this mess:
i think those ships are to attract non startrek fans into the game (by making connections to other franchises like tron and starwars) by sacrificing the true startrekfans. and thats dissappointing in every way.
sry if this is overly harsh but im not liking to see STO going statrekwarstron online.
you just altered to much elements on one ship in a to short period. - please for the sake of "reelection", take a step back and reverse that policy
In your opinion I'm not sure why that is so hard to comprehend. I see the Starfleet design evolution in the new ships. You do not. but saying they are nothing like Star Trek or Star Fleet is 100% your issue.
Your comment is like saying Chicken taste horrible with BBQ sauce on it. It doesn't look like or taste like chicken. Other though like the BBQ chicken...
No one is wrong its a opinion not fact.
You do not like it fine.. but saying its not Starfleet as if your opinion is fact is just plain wrong. You cant see the Starfleet evolution with the ship design fine that's your problem.. Many of us do see how they came up with the designs.
As I have said many times I think a lot has to do with the coloring not the ship designs them self's. but that's my opinion.
I really, really think they need a second pass. De-sharpen the edges, get rid of the hull material. Sorted.
The intel ships have been designed from the ground up to look specifically this way. To look different then any other ship design. They have the base mechanics of the regular ships, but have shape language befitting the design.
The design of our ships come from a combination of our designers, our art director, the concept artist and us on the ship team. Rarely do we point to 1 ship and say "this is what it should be like", the process is much more organic and iterative.
33.33% of the STO Ship Art team.
100% of the new guys on the STO Ship Art team.
I still don't know why you think that, and I'm even more baffled by the fact that you seem so sure.
I'll be honest and this is just my opinion on looks of the ships I actually love how the federation ones look. Although I would have rather you guys made the raptor look or share a lot of the characteristics that the battle cruiser for the klingon side has or atleast maybe make an option so that we can do that.
Your fed offerings however does not.
Already asked, but I'll ask again: Are there any more "canon" looking ships planned for Tier 6 at Delta Rising launch?
Besides the Guardian Cruiser.
I can only point to what has been announced.
33.33% of the STO Ship Art team.
100% of the new guys on the STO Ship Art team.
The weird part is why the FED ships needed to to look completely different and "innovative" while the ROM and KDF ships remain clearly recognizable as faction ships.
I would say for KDF and RR sake make a cross faction K'vort that any KDF or RR player can use for a 3rd ship
i cant get that. wheres the logic in this? if you want to experiment with cool random designes, go to a generic game isntead. this is
STAR TREK ONLINE
not TRON online, not Starwars, no. its STAR TREK. all ships you do have to be recognized as belonging to that damn universe we're at.
the worst part is, that the new mechanics arte LINKED to that designs. if they werent id just let them pass but ... basically this expension has died for me now.
and like i said, i can pinpoint what makes these ships not look and feel like starfleet or trek, so its not a mere opinion, also i have many arguments besides aesthetics.
again i will explain why the damn phantom is to flat:
a) its derived from the defiant. therefore it will roughly have the same basic size, correct? it wond be a flat square million kilometres suddenly. so.
b) now given the relation of the comparable lengh times broadness of a defiant it derives from, the HIGHT is SO SMALL RELATIVELY, that the DECK is TO SMALL TO:
bear technology, then hull-platin AND a one-deck- room thats at least 2m in hight. its
IMPOSSIBLE ENGINEERING WISE.
if sth is impossible engineering wise, its not an opinion. again you can "design" a house only 1m hight, but we all AGREE that its impossible for that house to have rooms within it, where a human could stand, right?
i think ill make a rough picture to show you why the relative size strongly SUGGESTS that this ship (the phantom) would only have ONE deck and one deck only, if ever. and noone would actually do that -.-'
a designer may design that, but no engineer would BUILDTHAT.
A glimmer of hope! Thank you!!~
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I dunno, in terms of hull configuration, I think the Intelligence ships look "Fed" enough.
The escort looks very much like a Defiant.
The science ship looks a lot like a Nova, with a very eccentric saucer.
The cruiser is perhaps the biggest departure, but overall has a large saucer, a deflector at the leading edge, and clear (though unusual) nacelles.
The hull material seems to be the biggest sticking point of a lot of people here.
Is it me or is the Scryer Intel Science Vessel based on the perpetual science ship concept art as the saucer shape is almost identical?
I know the Aquarius Destroyer is also an older design, the Sacagawea class concept art
"I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
Quack said on Reddit that the similarities are coincidental.
I have to wonder if it's really the "silent majority" that wants a change, or if it's bored devs tired of making the same thing. Frankly I find it hard to believe that the majority of the community is tired of the traditional design of Fed ships and not voicing it.
I myself belong to 3 of the largest fleets in game (Caspian Rising, Stonewall and SSOG) and I've heard no complaints about the fed ships. In fact most of us have been praising some of the post Odyssey additions. The only complaint I HAVE heard is that we should have more canon designs. Which is why I can't wrap my head around you saying that the "majority" wants something new...
Yea, these are purely coincidental.
33.33% of the STO Ship Art team.
100% of the new guys on the STO Ship Art team.
I agree that talking about the "silent majority" is always a slippery slope, since it's impossible to prove. It's true that the majority of the playerbase is silent, but we shouldn't presume to know what they want one way or the other.
That said, there are players who are really into at least one of the Intelligence ship designs, if not all three. Personally, I like the escort a lot.
As for canon ships...there are not too many canon ships left that aren't in the game. I'd always support more canon variants, though.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Looking at this picture, and assuming that the bridge module is at the top, between the nacelles, I would estimate the height of this ship to be at least 5 decks.
I remind you that we can't even see what's under the saucer.
That's simply the law of average. There is always bound to be at leas one person that likes something someone else doesn't.
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3734/inf7gcje_jpg.htm
i know its just paint but it will be sufficient for the arguement i hope.
thats a rough sideskepth of the phantom given comparable size to a defiant that it is derived from.
max 1 deck, to few space to bear all that tech. grrr i hope it now gets understood.
was there really any doubt since there is evidence that the Voyager may be T6. Just like when Fleet rolled around and they started giving us Fleet Canon ships...i have no doubt in my mind that down the road we will see canon T6 ships.
and the T6 ships look different because of them being a different class of ship...in the same way submarines don't look like battleships which don't look like aircraft carriers which don't look like destroyers.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
True. That's why it's dangerous to talk about the "silent majority." But it's also dangerous to assume that the designs are universally reviled.
I've seen a lot of speculation, but no "evidence."
Well then it should be rather simple, shouldn't it?
Bellerophon, Venture, Sao Paolo, Regent, Odyssey, Armitage, Thunderchild to name a few, are designs that are definitely 2409/2410. Yet NONE of which will be allowed a full upgrade to Tier 6. The Odyssey was the flagship of the fleet in 2409, and in 2410, it's suddenly out of date?
Likewise, we have several non-canon variants at lower tiers that could certainly be considered in the "2409 category" of ships: Ushaan, Rapier, Excalibur, Vesper, Aurora, Quasar, even the Rhode Island (Captain Kim's ship in 2404)
Again, none of which have Tier 6 variants announced, or as far as I know, even planned for possible upgrading to full Tier 6.