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Kazon ships couldn't work at high tiers? Think again!

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  • greendragon527greendragon527 Member Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Kazon were a threat because they had clans of ships to Voyager's one. If Starfleet/KDF/RSN came in force they would be ripped apart. Someone made a point about them blowing themselves up with a replicator, good point there, they couldn't improve their tech if it was handed to them. On the plus side their hair is easily rendered xD.
  • kelshandokelshando Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You guys are totally forgetting the Kazon were a slave race just got there freedom and had no sense of organized government or leadership and were handed advanced weapons. They have had 40 years to calm down.. and if there IQ is that low they would not of been able to use the ships they had.

    The replicator was not compatible with there power systems.. Seska would not of even known that. She would of I'm sure been able to see that if she was the one installing it but she wasn't.

    Also there was no one in that area to keep the Kazon in check so they have had 40 years to expanded and if they stop infighting under a new leadership they may not be as advanced but may make up for it in brutality.. using enslaved races to build there higher tech ships and weapons.

    This is all speculation on everyone's part.. we have no idea how Cryptic is going to bring them. All I'm really saying is they could be more advanced and organized then when they were last shown.
  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    questerius wrote: »
    The Borg didn't want the kazon or their tech so why would any advanced species from the alpha/beta quadrant want them.

    The Kazon are the Ralph Wiggums of Star Trek, even worse than the Pakleds. Nobody wants those dirty hairdressers. Except Cryptic apparently.
  • greendragon527greendragon527 Member Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Well Sankur was the only time they had leadership, when they were freshly their own masters, they have forsaken union after him and have still forsaken it from the dev blog posts, so it doesn't seem they have calmed down. Also, their use of Trabe ships can be explained by their slave status, they were probably used to clean the ships, as shock troopers, and as low level operators. Not knowing their power systems were incompatible replicator shows a lack of understanding of the tech involved. There was indeed, no one to stand up to them in that area, but they show no creativity of their own, since they did not advance from Mabus youth, hence I think their threat would again be in numbers, not technologically.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    kelshando wrote: »
    You guys are totally forgetting the Kazon were a slave race just got there freedom and had no sense of organized government or leadership and were handed advanced weapons. They have had 40 years to calm down.. and if there IQ is that low they would not of been able to use the ships they had.
    You are totally forgetting that they'd already had 25 years prior to "Caretaker" to calm down. And that this is a species that fights interstellar wars over one of the most common molecules in space. And that their idea of an impregnable prison is a line on the freaking floor. And that even the Borg think they're useless.

    Other than as target practice, the Kazon have zero value to anybody but themselves. One of the best things we can do for the Delta Quadrant, after blowing the Borg to hell, is to put them out of their misery.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited August 2014
    variant37 wrote: »
    The Kazon are the Ralph Wiggums of Star Trek, even worse than the Pakleds. Nobody wants those dirty hairdressers. Except Cryptic apparently.

    I want them as an antagonist to fight against. Ground Combat against them could be quite brutal. But in space I see them as target practice.
    I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. :confused:
    If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
    When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
  • asovanraasovanra Member Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Um, 18K hull... My shuttle craft has more hull then what you're proposing. Then again, with 18K hull it would make a nice tier 2 ship since that's all its good for anyways.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    A ferocious man with a knife gets shot by a calm man with a gun. Ferocity doesn't make ships better, sturdier or more devastating.

    But SWAGGA does! And the Kazon have that in buckets yo! Buckets! Buckets full of ducats I'd say. BA ZING!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • astro2244astro2244 Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    starswordc wrote: »

    Other than as target practice, the Kazon have zero value to anybody but themselves. One of the best things we can do for the Delta Quadrant, after blowing the Borg to hell, is to put them out of their misery.



    Back to the terran empire with you, ya goatee wearing mirror universe weirdo. :D:P
    [SIGPIC]583px-Romulan_Star_Empire_logo%2C_2379.svg.png
    [/SIGPIC]
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I am sick of hearing the argument that because Kazon are low-tech, their ships could never be implemented at high tiers.
    I agree that Kazon ships are low tech but they didn't give the Voyager some of it's most troublesome trouble for no reason.

    Kazon are low-tech and their development rate is far lower then starfleet.
    They were only able to give voyager a hard time because of number. one man with a mg will get overwhelmed if there are enough melee-swingers on the other side.
    So pls, think again!
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Kazon are low-tech and their development rate is far lower then starfleet.
    They were only able to give voyager a hard time because of number. one man with a mg will get overwhelmed if there are enough melee-swingers on the other side.
    So pls, think again!

    I think it's worse than "far lower"...it's probably not existing.
    To develop tech you first need to understand its principles or in this case understand what you have to then improve it.
    From the shows we know these guys don't understand basic physics and chemistry.
    Otherwise they'd have figured out how to use their FTL capable ships to produce water from hydrogen (the most common element in the universe) and oxygen (present in the atmosphere of all class-M planets). And this is something we know in principle since the 1830's and in practice since the 1960's.
  • chrisbrown12009chrisbrown12009 Member Posts: 790 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    the Kazon are dumb as a bag of rocks, and their hair IS easy to render. but look at the bright side, with the STO AI being what it is, it should fit the kazon nicely!
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,905 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Kazon are low-tech and their development rate is far lower then starfleet.
    They were only able to give voyager a hard time because of number. one man with a mg will get overwhelmed if there are enough melee-swingers on the other side.
    So pls, think again!

    I mean this...plus imagine if Voyager was a bit beefier? What if Voyager was more like a Defiant or Sovereign? A ship built more for combat?

    Think they'd stand a chance if Voyager were to shove a few Quantum Torpedoes up their tailpipe?
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Another reason they're not going to get organized: Their sectarian warfare was set up by the Trabe to keep them under control, just like how in real life the colonial powers played various sects and tribes off against each other to maintain control over their colonies (the Brits were especially good at that). And in real life, we're still feeling the aftereffects fifty-plus years after the collapse of basically everybody's overseas empires.
    misterde3 wrote: »
    I think it's worse than "far lower"...it's probably not existing.
    To develop tech you first need to understand its principles or in this case understand what you have to then improve it.
    From the shows we know these guys don't understand basic physics and chemistry.
    Otherwise they'd have figured out how to use their FTL capable ships to produce water from hydrogen (the most common element in the universe) and oxygen (present in the atmosphere of all class-M planets). And this is something we know in principle since the 1830's and in practice since the 1960's.
    Never mind that, water is extremely common in space as a naturally occurring substance. Just mine a few comets and you're set for decades.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • mercurythefirstmercurythefirst Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Kazon are low-tech and their development rate is far lower then starfleet.
    They were only able to give voyager a hard time because of number. one man with a mg will get overwhelmed if there are enough melee-swingers on the other side.
    So pls, think again!

    Don't reply if you didn't read.

    The active reinforcements ability represents their numbers advantage, and brings them up to high tier.

    L2R
    asovanra wrote: »
    Um, 18K hull... My shuttle craft has more hull then what you're proposing. Then again, with 18K hull it would make a nice tier 2 ship since that's all its good for anyways.

    Intentional trade-off. My design is a kamikaze ship with reinforcements who are also kamikaze. It's balanced for T4-5 considering the abilities.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    bloodpact.net

    "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."

    -Michelangelo
  • kelshandokelshando Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    You are totally forgetting that they'd already had 25 years prior to "Caretaker" to calm down. And that this is a species that fights interstellar wars over one of the most common molecules in space. And that their idea of an impregnable prison is a line on the freaking floor. And that even the Borg think they're useless.

    Other than as target practice, the Kazon have zero value to anybody but themselves. One of the best things we can do for the Delta Quadrant, after blowing the Borg to hell, is to put them out of their misery.

    You miss understood.. calm down do to new leadership. Leader focus them from infighting to forming a unified front is what I was meaning.

    Cultural change can happen quickly if the right circumstance are there. We have no idea what changes have happened in the past 40 years other then the Voth/Borg war.
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    How are the Kazon even relevant? If DR starts on the 'near side' of the Delta Quadrant outside the second Sphere, the Kazon were out near Voyager's start point something like 50k light years away. For a species that technologically might be a match for the NX-01, thats an ridiculous distance, with a whole lot of hazards in between including Borg Space. Even if the Kazon have had a technological renaissance, that MIGHT bring them up to TOS tech, which would put their top-of-the-line as equal to what a T1 Connie? The idea of the Kazon coming at a 25th century ship-of-the-line, its like being threatened by a gang of militant 5-year-olds. Honestly the biggest 'difficulty' with them that would actually make sense would be the KDF debating if it was worth lowering themselves to pimp-slap the Kazon back to the stone age, or if it would be dishonorable to waste a warrior's time on such trash. Bad joke of an adversary.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    kelshando wrote: »
    You miss understood.. calm down do to new leadership. Leader focus them from infighting to forming a unified front is what I was meaning.

    Cultural change can happen quickly if the right circumstance are there. We have no idea what changes have happened in the past 40 years other then the Voth/Borg war.

    You underestimate sectarian and tribal warfare, how deep the animosity goes, especially in places where you had colonial powers (Europe in real life, the Trabe in VOY) playing on those enmities to keep control of their conquests. Seriously, the **** we're dealing with in the Middle East at this very hour is in large part the aftereffects of European imperialism, fifty or more years after all those empires fell apart and the territories all turned into more-or-less-organized independent countries. The Kazon haven't even gotten that far.

    And lest it be forgotten, this is a species of whom the canonical opinion of the Borg Collective is as follows: "Their biological and technological distinctiveness was unremarkable; they were unworthy of assimilation. ... Why assimilate a species that would detract from perfection?"

    They're a species of chauvinistic morons with bad hair, plain and simple.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • ghyudtghyudt Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Why am I not surprised by the 2 ltcomm tac stations and ltcomm eng station? Plus 4 tac and 4 eng consoles? This thing would be OP'd as hell. Its got too much survivability with all that, plus way too much firepower. Kazon ships may have given voyager a bit of trouble, but bear in mind d that even against 3 or 4 of them, voyager still came out on top, while taking only moderate damage. Kazon ships are much weaker than you seem to think, and while the species may be ferocious, you can't apply the traits of a species to their ships and technology, it just doesn't work like that. If you could, then the Japanese and Germans would have won their respective wars.

    The kazon are clearly not technologically or scientifically strong. Their ships are generally massive, but that seems to be for durability and resilience to make up for weak shields and weapons. Even when kar attacked chakotay in his shuttle, chakotay was able to survive several hits, and destroyed Kars ship with 1 shot. This is a clear example of the huge gap separating starfleet and the kazon in terms of ship strength.
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