Wait.. so upgrading gear and such is ok.. but new ship are bad do to costing money?
so in everquest you didn't buy the expansions? WoW you didn't spend $30 bucks per expansion? or how about GW 10 to 30 bucks per expansion... need I go on?
They are not charging you money for the expansion as all the above games did... and if you grind enough dilithium you still wont have to spend a dime.. just your time.
Who knows maybe with there ship upgrade they hinted on you still wont have to spend money....
But there a business and no one would be playing if some people weren't buying.. and giving a carrot on a stick is the best way to get people to buy. And really you buy a ship for T6.. you spend maybe 20-30 dollars.. for a whole year.. id say that's a pretty sweat deal.
At least there not like SWTOR that charges just to put epic gear on your toon, and to do more then 3 dungeons a week or 3 pvp matchs a week with out paying... over all STO is a pretty easy on the pocket book mmo imo.
your totally missing the point.. im a ok with them making a new teir of ship, im a ok with them making new ships.. im not ok with them making the ships that 1. I want to play. and 2. have paid real money for obsolete. that is not cool.
speaking of paying for expansions and what not.. now this is just me, but I know there is a lot of people who are in the same boat.. I played wow for somewhere around 10 years.. I had to buy the game, buy expansions, and even bought a mount or two. however, I have played sto for 4 years, and in those four years I have spent way way more in sto, than I did in wow, or any other game that I played the same amount of time or longer..
trust me bro, they make money hand over fist.. so don't go waving your hands in the air like you just don't care lol.. there is a reason all the other games are switching to free to play, and that is because it makes way more money.. everyone who posts that cryptic does something special by creating free contentand blah blah blah, well, don't worry, they are making their money.. (and I honestly have no problem with that).
however, I do have a problem with wasting my money, and being ripped off. lets use my intrepid for example.. I bought the t3 version while I was leveling, then, I bought the t5 refit, then I bought the fleet retrofit. I have purchased the same god damned ship 3 times.. and now that I have paid like 20-30 dollars for the ship (almost half the cost of an expansion for one ship) im being told it wont be as good as t6 ships (in which im pretty sure there are none I am going to want as I only play canon designs). that sucks.. bring on the new gear, bring on the new level.. bring on t6 ships, but make it worthwhile for those of us who are already in love with another ship...
whats happening is basically the same as if blizzard released an expansion, and said that nightelfs would be a whole half a teir behind everything else. so too bad if you like night elfs.. like was said earlier in the thread, the ship is not just a piece of equipment, it is your character in space.. and I do care what my character looks like..
your totally missing the point.. im a ok with them making a new teir of ship, im a ok with them making new ships.. im not ok with them making the ships that 1. I want to play. and 2. have paid real money for obsolete. that is not cool.
speaking of paying for expansions and what not.. now this is just me, but I know there is a lot of people who are in the same boat.. I played wow for somewhere around 10 years.. I had to buy the game, buy expansions, and even bought a mount or two. however, I have played sto for 4 years, and in those four years I have spent way way more in sto, than I did in wow, or any other game that I played the same amount of time or longer..
trust me bro, they make money hand over fist.. so don't go waving your hands in the air like you just don't care lol.. there is a reason all the other games are switching to free to play, and that is because it makes way more money.. everyone who posts that cryptic does something special by creating free contentand blah blah blah, well, don't worry, they are making their money.. (and I honestly have no problem with that).
however, I do have a problem with wasting my money, and being ripped off. lets use my intrepid for example.. I bought the t3 version while I was leveling, then, I bought the t5 refit, then I bought the fleet retrofit. I have purchased the same god damned ship 3 times.. and now that I have paid like 20-30 dollars for the ship (almost half the cost of an expansion for one ship) im being told it wont be as good as t6 ships (in which im pretty sure there are none I am going to want as I only play canon designs). that sucks.. bring on the new gear, bring on the new level.. bring on t6 ships, but make it worthwhile for those of us who are already in love with another ship...
whats happening is basically the same as if blizzard released an expansion, and said that nightelfs would be a whole half a teir behind everything else. so too bad if you like night elfs.. like was said earlier in the thread, the ship is not just a piece of equipment, it is your character in space.. and I do care what my character looks like..
Now your form join date is 2012.. not sure if that's your start of playing STO but your saying you spent more in sto then WoW.. given each mount in wow was 25 bucks.. and if you bought the game + all the expansions that 50+30+30+30+30 given if you played for 10 years you started from release of wow. Now add 15 a month charge for 10 years.. so that's 1800... so your telling me you have spent more then $2020.00 on STO in 4 years? Yet all 3 of your ships cost a total of 4000 to 5000z and you can get that with in game credits for the fleet mods and dilithium for the ships.. that's less then the box cost of when wow 1st came out... if you spent over 2 grand on sto maybe you should of just bought the life timer sub....
I do not know anyone personally that spending 500 dollars a year on STO.. you maybe do.. but I sure do not.. and if you have that much extra spending cash a year.. a new expansion needing to get a tier 6 should not be a issue.
As far as you only using Canon ships.. hey more power to you.. but remember we have NO.. I repeat NO info on how there upgrading t5 to t6 if its a real upgrade or if its a mounting weapons... all we have is a bunch of uneducated guess work and a brief statement. until they shed more light on the "upgrade" program people really should hold judgment that its all doom and gloom.
The only real issue is people fear and hate change.. they are comfortable where they are and any change to that becomes a threat. These same things came out in wow expansions.. the forums were ablaze with people complaining that there hours and hours of game time were totally wasted do to a new tier of gear... they didn't want there being the best geared player on there server threatened.
So again I welcome the reshuffling of power scale in the game.. including ships.. Given I bought there newest escort + the fleet version my ship will be "out dated" in just a few months and I am ok with that.
As far as you only using Canon ships.. hey more power to you.. but remember we have NO.. I repeat NO info on how there upgrading t5 to t6 if its a real upgrade or if its a mounting weapons... all we have is a bunch of uneducated guess work and a brief statement. until they shed more light on the "upgrade" program people really should hold judgment that its all doom and gloom.
Hmm, I'd have thought the sensible thing was until they shed more light on things not to buy any tier 5 ships.
I can appreciate that. I'm unemployed myself right now -- so can empathise to that personally. But, like Cookie pointed out, how different is that from modern consumer vanity products? If the game is to stay alive for us to enjoy, there has to be something to entice players to either A) spend more time in the game or spend real $$ to get the immediate reward.
So despite the lack of systems descriptions -- how should T5 ships be handled? What's the point of striving for a T6 ship when my Avenger can still pack a similar punch after an upgrade?... If upgrades cost $$, would that be fair?
The core flaw of the STO F2P model right there. Dunno, maybe sell some of those 'side story' missions everyone seems to want for a reasonable price? Ship costumes? But I digress.
Empathy requires you to see the other side's point of view. You are being dismissive of the other sides point of view. That is what I dislike about how you are coming across to me about this subject in the podcast.
How should the upgrade be handled? Ideally a reasonable dilithium cost to upgrade the existing ships to be equal stat wise to the new T6 ships. That means if T6 ships get 10% more shields and an extra console slot, existing ships should be upgradeable to that standard for purple rocks.
And look, we all play the game and have invested large amounts of time and/or money into it. While I'm keenly interested in finding out in what manner ships will be updated, I simply cannot believe that they will NOT be brought up to par. Heck, if anything they have brought many more ships up to T5 level that weren't before over time via the Fleet system. When I reached max level back in the day I couldn't fly a T5 version of many of the ships we now have. The devs MUST know that the game, for many people, is as much about the choice of ships as it is about anything else.
No one, I think least of all them, is going to want everyone at 60th to be flying around in just a handful of different ships per faction. It also doesn't jive with their statements that certain ships are lockbox/lobi instead of C-store to retain sort of a "ship demographic".
None of these things explicitly state that our current ships will be on par with the new T6, but I think Cryptic would be fools to fly in the face of the fact that many players heavily identify with their ships and, even if they collect many new ships, have favorites they want to play regardless of what comes out.
Parity is fuzzy anyway. My Dhelan trades a few points in power levels vs. an Advanced Escort in exchange for a boff roster full of Operatives, a Rom Battlecloak and Singularity powers for example! So if some of the neato new powers unique to T6 native ships are awesome, that's okay as long as there's some tradeoff to them mechanically.
I'm not sure why people are so quick to believe that we /won't/ be able to upgrade Fleet-grade ships to T6 level, roughly, similarly to how we upgrade RA ships to VA (9-console to 10-console). We don't know yet, sure, but I am pretty confident given the precedents we have. Fleet versions of VA and C-store ships plus the upgrade they did to Lockbox/Lobi ships when the Fleet system launched are our past experiences with new ship "levels" being added. Those were fine.
Just my 2 energy credits as always.
--Jayce
Jae'sien@xeperi
Priority One
Minus the huge issues of t6 and losing your avatar of choice, I personally have another huge issue.
I don't want to fly un-offiical ships.
The problem developers are running into now is something they should have asked themselves 3 years ago before they decided to build their business around selling new ships - or rather build their business around something with a limited supply.
Seems to me buying a t6 ship, a better ship perhaps, is their attempt at apologizing for you now having to fly a fake ship.
So we know how sad that is, here have some better stats.
But I am sorry I won't be flying it no matter how much better it is.
Seems to me buying a t6 ship, a better ship perhaps, is their attempt at apologizing for you now having to fly a fake ship.
So we know how sad that is, here have some better stats.
But I am sorry I won't be flying it no matter how much better it is.
"Fake" ships seems a little harsh, if only given the context. STO is set, what, 40 years after TNG? There is no way that the Galaxy, Defiant and Intrepid classes - or anything else originating in the eras of the TV shows - would still be the top of the line for the Federation.
(And yes, the Vesta is an oddity in that regard...)
Anyway, the whole argument now revolves around what is meant by "competitive". Are we talking Fleet ships vs Lockbox ships, or standard T5 vs Lockbox?
I suspect that what Cryptic will do depends on a lot of metrics we, the playerbase, can't see. Do they make significant money from the sale of retrofit "classic" ships like the Galaxy? Have sales of the 3-pack ships dried up? Have Master Key sales - and by extension the demand for Lockbox ships - dropped? It's all about the cashflow, folks, and we don't have that information.
I just take comfort from a couple of points:
1. New Intrepid interior. This suggests to me that Cryptic believe that the roleplayer market - those that want to play what they've seen on TV - is still a significant factor. So what, if you want to sell that classic interior, presumably you're still expecting to sell a few ships as well. Therefore it would make sense to keep the classics at least reasonably competitive.
2. JHAS Free Upgrade. Perhaps this is Cryptic singling out their ultimate cash cow, but the JHAS is expicitly described as being "upgraded to T6". Not to "competitive with T6". This is consistent with the way that all the extant lockbox ships were upgraded when the fleet ships arrived - so I have a strong suspicion that all lockbox ships will be fully upgradeable to T6. The numbers are probably small enough that they won't dent the overall sales of T6 vessels.
Maybe unoffical fake ships aren't part of the arguement for you but it is to others, you only have a point as far as to say you plan on buying anything and everything.
New bridge has zero to do with roleplayers, rather something that was being used anyway for story or cutscene or mission they of course should try and sell now they had it built anyway
Maybe unoffical fake ships aren't part of the arguement for you but it is to others, you only have a point as far as to say you plan on buying anything and everything.
New bridge has zero to do with roleplayers, rather something that was being used anyway for story or cutscene or mission they of course should try and sell now they had it built anyway
Many people have asked for a canon Intrepid/Voyager interior over the years. I don't think putting the time and resources into making it at a point where it can serve a dual purpose is bad at all. And I do also think it is a data point suggestive that existing ships will be upgraded to a level where people who want to fly canon/"hero" ships will be comfortable doing so. We'll see!
Now your form join date is 2012.. not sure if that's your start of playing STO but your saying you spent more in sto then WoW.. given each mount in wow was 25 bucks.. and if you bought the game + all the expansions that 50+30+30+30+30 given if you played for 10 years you started from release of wow. Now add 15 a month charge for 10 years.. so that's 1800... so your telling me you have spent more then $2020.00 on STO in 4 years? Yet all 3 of your ships cost a total of 4000 to 5000z and you can get that with in game credits for the fleet mods and dilithium for the ships.. that's less then the box cost of when wow 1st came out... if you spent over 2 grand on sto maybe you should of just bought the life timer sub....
I do not know anyone personally that spending 500 dollars a year on STO.. you maybe do.. but I sure do not.. and if you have that much extra spending cash a year.. a new expansion needing to get a tier 6 should not be a issue.
As far as you only using Canon ships.. hey more power to you.. but remember we have NO.. I repeat NO info on how there upgrading t5 to t6 if its a real upgrade or if its a mounting weapons... all we have is a bunch of uneducated guess work and a brief statement. until they shed more light on the "upgrade" program people really should hold judgment that its all doom and gloom.
The only real issue is people fear and hate change.. they are comfortable where they are and any change to that becomes a threat. These same things came out in wow expansions.. the forums were ablaze with people complaining that there hours and hours of game time were totally wasted do to a new tier of gear... they didn't want there being the best geared player on there server threatened.
So again I welcome the reshuffling of power scale in the game.. including ships.. Given I bought there newest escort + the fleet version my ship will be "out dated" in just a few months and I am ok with that.
ok, firstly, join date on the forums means nothing... sorry, but the forums have been restarted what, twice now.. so technically, no on one the forums has a join date before pwe took over. ill chock that up to you not being around then... I have been with this game since beta, that's before launch if you don't know what beta is. (im assuming you don't since you didn't know about the forums being moved and everyone having to re-sign up for them)..
secondly, yes, I have paid more in sto than in wow.. I bought 1 mount in wow for 10, and one for 25.. and I purchased the games and paid my monthly fee. there was times I didn't subscribe the whole year, but there were times I didn't play the whole year in star trek.
that being said, I bought all of the editions of the game when it launched (as to have all of the goodies (I started with the lowest, than realized I wanted the goodies in the others lol)... so that right there is a few hundred bucks..
then, back in the day when this game was actually star trek, they sold a bunch of skins for ships, and bridges, and clothing, and while I didn't purchase it all at once, I did purchase it all over time.. I subbed in this game for about a year and a half, and then bought a lifetime subscription..
also, I ran a fleet (and I ran a guild in wow) and I have spent a lot on prizes (I gave out fleet modules and keys as prizes for fleet events). further more, I have purchased almost all of the ships ingame, and then asked to repurchase them for consoles along the way.. I actually didn't have to spend real life money to get cool prizes in wow, but that is besides the point, two different types of games.. ]
now, currently, I own most of the ships.. and, I have roughly 8-10 characters at max level that I have geared fully out, and purchased expanded inventory and boff slots for. (most them have all of it unlocked). most of those characters have opened enough boxes to get at least two of the consoles out of lobi store (all bought with money, and its a lot). and between all of my characters, I have most of the ships..
I even bought the steam bundle for the steam runner.
most definatly I have spent more in my nearly 5 years at sto, than I did in wow..
now.. im not saying that every purchase needs to be upgraded. I understand about the reshuffling of power.. but ships are not equipment.. ships are your avatar.. its not just that I spent money on them, I spent money to fly a ship that I like.. the few ships I did not purchase were due to not being canon, or me not liking them..
when I play sto, I want my character to look a certain way, in space, my character is my ship, them forcing me to possible change what my character in space looks like sucks.. and I will not stand for it.. again, your not getting the argument, so please stop commenting.. your commenting about black, when we are all talking about orange..
most people in the same boat as me understand the need to increase the mark level of items, and most welcome it. but we do not want to be forced into flying a ship that visually doesn't do it for us.. and since most of us paid money to have our character look that way in space, it sucks even more.. its not about being afraid of change, bring change on, but...half the ships I fly do not have the boff seating I wish them to have, I fly them because I like the ship, and I like the looks.. to further make that experience worse, is kind of a holeish..
also, I did say in my statement that we know nothing, and that im just saying that if cryptic screws it up like they usually do than I will not have it.. for all I know it will be fine, but experience with cryptic has proven that the worst case is the most likely scenario...
Many people have asked for a canon Intrepid/Voyager interior over the years. I don't think putting the time and resources into making it at a point where it can serve a dual purpose is bad at all. And I do also think it is a data point suggestive that existing ships will be upgraded to a level where people who want to fly canon/"hero" ships will be comfortable doing so. We'll see!
--Jayce
Jae'sien@xeperi
Priority One
How is that a data point? We have a Connie interior and we know without a doubt that it will never see end game.
now.. im not saying that every purchase needs to be upgraded. I understand about the reshuffling of power.. but ships are not equipment.. ships are your avatar.. its not just that I spent money on them, I spent money to fly a ship that I like.. the few ships I did not purchase were due to not being canon, or me not liking them..
This one paragraph is so..so..wrong.
Ships are your weapons.. not your avatar.. there your armor.. not your avatar
You play a Race, a person, not a ship and your persona commands its engine of war. Given you bought all the ships but only play canon.. you sure seem to not have a money issue.
You said you played wow for 10 years.. well I guess you really didn't.. and given you have so much money to buy every ship in the game.... why are you complaining? Are you still pissed off about buying a tier 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 that are all obsolete in end game now?
I'm sorry this is the nature of mmo's and if a tier 6 ship costs 25 bucks its still less then any mmo's that are p2p expansions such as GW or WoW.. So you may like to buy every ship out there but that's a choice.. most are not going to buy every ship in the game but they will invest there $25 bucks that covers the expansion costs that any mmo would normally charge.
in the end vs any other paid expansion its really not a big deal..and hell you can save dilithum and exchange it for zen and not pay a dime.. so win/win for all more content, more ships, new balance, new class of boffs. The only losers are the people burned out on STO and do not want more content or the epeen crowed that do want there being the best geared out there right now threatened.
I swear I think some people just like to complain.. this is a mmo and all mmo re-tier and structure there games..normally every 1 to 2 years.. sto has need this type of over haul for awhile.
How is that a data point? We have a Connie interior and we know without a doubt that it will never see end game.
I personally would like special event and lock boxes ships with more then just a bridge... the inside of a breen or the xindi aquatic ship would/could be so cool. but we know that wont happen.
I'm only going to say this once well maybe twice T6 ships okay but you have to have an upgrade path that is not and will not be a disaster for all the people who have bought ships from the Sea store and fleet ships to ignore those players and simply invalidate their ships is a disaster.. The plan to upgrade the ships has to come out sooner rather than later because the amount of damage that is being caused right now is astronomical and at some point will not be able to be reversed... If this is handled incorrectly this can and will be StarTrek onlines version of StarTrek galaxies Nge ... But for now one of the things that they need to do is not wait and put out a blog about how Shipsnwill be upgraded don't even talk about with the new ships or anything like that with their stats are but you need to put it out now damage control it seems is not a forte of this group to let it go on as long as it has is ......well asinine to say the least they could do1 blog a week till launch and be fine ...some times I just shake my head at the moves they make
I'm specifically excited for the progression of the storyline, and all of the new shinies that will come with it. I'm referring mainly to new art assets, rather than gear per se. I'm just looking forward to the sense of excitement and wonder that comes from playing new missions (and knowing there's more where that came from).
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
No, it's quite correct. The ship is your avatar when in space, and the devs have flat out said as much on several occasions.
I'm not sure if that poster fully understood what was meant by the statement that our ship is our avatar when we're in space.
Yes, it is true. When on a space map, the game loads your ship's model as your character model, and your ship stats as your character stats. In essence, from the game's perspective, you are your ship.
There were some extremely funny bugs in the early days when we would beam to ESD, but the game would fail to swap our ship for our character model. turns out a Miranda class ship is only about 4 feet across!
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
I'm not sure if that poster fully understood what was meant by the statement that our ship is our avatar when we're in space.
Yes, it is true. When on a space map, the game loads your ship's model as your character model, and your ship stats as your character stats. In essence, from the game's perspective, you are your ship.
There were some extremely funny bugs in the early days when we would beam to ESD, but the game would fail to swap our ship for our character model. turns out a Miranda class ship is only about 4 feet across!
Its a matter of perspective.. a Avatar is something you control to a dev..
But in a RPG sense your Avatar is "you" your true avatar is you the captain.. you do not get to change your "avatar" or persona of your captain. You do get to change your ship.. So for a RPG you are playing a captain that controls a ship. So yes if referring to your ships as your controlling avatar is space then you can say from a dev perspective its your "avatar" But from a MMORPG stand point your avatar is your character commanding that ship.
We were just looking at from different perspectives.. given he was talking about canon and such I was referring to it from a MORPG stand point not a DEV technical stand point.
How is that a data point? We have a Connie interior and we know without a doubt that it will never see end game.
The Constitution-class is proscribed by CBS/Paramount from being used beyond certain guidelines. The Defiant, which we also have a full interior for, is not, and we have had an upgrade path for that. The Intrepid and Galaxy also have upgrade paths from T4 and Refit, to T5 Retrofit and Fleet. Sufficient grounds to call it, as I said, a /suggestive/ data point. Not a conclusive one. If it were conclusive though, we wouldn't be debating it. Ultimately we are waiting for definite information.
Its a matter of perspective.. a Avatar is something you control to a dev..
But in a RPG sense your Avatar is "you" your true avatar is you the captain.. you do not get to change your "avatar" or persona of your captain. You do get to change your ship.. So for a RPG you are playing a captain that controls a ship. So yes if referring to your ships as your controlling avatar is space then you can say from a dev perspective its your "avatar" But from a MMORPG stand point your avatar is your character commanding that ship.
We were just looking at from different perspectives.. given he was talking about canon and such I was referring to it from a MORPG stand point not a DEV technical stand point.
Again you are missing the point and you arguing semantics. In this game, our ship is just as much as our avatar as our ship captain. This is the thinking of the majority of STO players and the Devs.
Regarding Axanar and their Kickstarter campaign to make their movie...
Cryptic could show a great deal of class by supporting this kickstarter and thus the Star Trek community with some simple Zen offers...
At the very least, an Axanar Lockbox that gives a chance to win a refurbished Ares or D-7 class ship. A portion of the proceeds can fund the kickstarter. I am convinced the players would make this the best selling lockbox they have had.
Regarding Axanar and their Kickstarter campaign to make their movie...
Cryptic could show a great deal of class by supporting this kickstarter and thus the Star Trek community with some simple Zen offers...
At the very least, an Axanar Lockbox that gives a chance to win a refurbished Ares or D-7 class ship. A portion of the proceeds can fund the kickstarter. I am convinced the players would make this the best selling lockbox they have had.
Probably too complex to get done but I'd support it.
Regarding Axanar and their Kickstarter campaign to make their movie...
Cryptic could show a great deal of class by supporting this kickstarter and thus the Star Trek community with some simple Zen offers...
At the very least, an Axanar Lockbox that gives a chance to win a refurbished Ares or D-7 class ship. A portion of the proceeds can fund the kickstarter. I am convinced the players would make this the best selling lockbox they have had.
So. . . all of these fan productions like Axandar (or Phase 2 or Continues or Renegades, etc.) are essentially allowed to exist by CBS as long as they aren't making any money off of the IP. CBS doesn't support them, but they also don't stop them, unless they are infringing on Trek for profit (which I think is an amazing and laudable stance in the age we live in.)
STO is an officially licensed product. While we, individuals can contribute and support Axanar (or any of the others), I think it would create a pretty mushy legal grey area if STO supported those projects in any official capacity.
So, no, I don't think we could/should/will support them as a project/company.
So. . . all of these fan productions like Axandar (or Phase 2 or Continues or Renegades, etc.) are essentially allowed to exist by CBS as long as they aren't making any money off of the IP. CBS doesn't support them, but they also don't stop them, unless they are infringing on Trek for profit (which I think is an amazing and laudable stance in the age we live in.)
STO is an officially licensed product. While we, individuals can contribute and support Axanar (or any of the others), I think it would create a pretty mushy legal grey area if STO supported those projects in any official capacity.
So, no, I don't think we could/should/will support them as a project/company.
Taco, just simply say they are fan productions and you're not allowed to use them. :rolleyes:
At the very least, an Axanar Lockbox that gives a chance to win a refurbished Ares or D-7 class ship. A portion of the proceeds can fund the kickstarter. I am convinced the players would make this the best selling lockbox they have had.
The D7 has been in STO since Day 1 and there is a Fleet Tier 5 version. Only thing that it lacks is an authentic skin, the return of the nacelle glow, and a Warbird paintjob for the Romulans.
As for your financial suggestion, even if CBS said so, I actually think it might be illegal to do that.
Comments
your totally missing the point.. im a ok with them making a new teir of ship, im a ok with them making new ships.. im not ok with them making the ships that 1. I want to play. and 2. have paid real money for obsolete. that is not cool.
speaking of paying for expansions and what not.. now this is just me, but I know there is a lot of people who are in the same boat.. I played wow for somewhere around 10 years.. I had to buy the game, buy expansions, and even bought a mount or two. however, I have played sto for 4 years, and in those four years I have spent way way more in sto, than I did in wow, or any other game that I played the same amount of time or longer..
trust me bro, they make money hand over fist.. so don't go waving your hands in the air like you just don't care lol.. there is a reason all the other games are switching to free to play, and that is because it makes way more money.. everyone who posts that cryptic does something special by creating free contentand blah blah blah, well, don't worry, they are making their money.. (and I honestly have no problem with that).
however, I do have a problem with wasting my money, and being ripped off. lets use my intrepid for example.. I bought the t3 version while I was leveling, then, I bought the t5 refit, then I bought the fleet retrofit. I have purchased the same god damned ship 3 times.. and now that I have paid like 20-30 dollars for the ship (almost half the cost of an expansion for one ship) im being told it wont be as good as t6 ships (in which im pretty sure there are none I am going to want as I only play canon designs). that sucks.. bring on the new gear, bring on the new level.. bring on t6 ships, but make it worthwhile for those of us who are already in love with another ship...
whats happening is basically the same as if blizzard released an expansion, and said that nightelfs would be a whole half a teir behind everything else. so too bad if you like night elfs.. like was said earlier in the thread, the ship is not just a piece of equipment, it is your character in space.. and I do care what my character looks like..
[snipped for being an idiot]
PR for X2 has been atrocious so far.
The consequence is a huge information gap, which inevitably will be filled with tons of speculation, anxiety and outright garbage.
P1 should be part of the push for more information, at the moment though all we're getting from you is a weak version of Cryptics line.
If you're going to be Cryptics mouthpiece in this regard, at least be upfront about it.
Now your form join date is 2012.. not sure if that's your start of playing STO but your saying you spent more in sto then WoW.. given each mount in wow was 25 bucks.. and if you bought the game + all the expansions that 50+30+30+30+30 given if you played for 10 years you started from release of wow. Now add 15 a month charge for 10 years.. so that's 1800... so your telling me you have spent more then $2020.00 on STO in 4 years? Yet all 3 of your ships cost a total of 4000 to 5000z and you can get that with in game credits for the fleet mods and dilithium for the ships.. that's less then the box cost of when wow 1st came out... if you spent over 2 grand on sto maybe you should of just bought the life timer sub....
I do not know anyone personally that spending 500 dollars a year on STO.. you maybe do.. but I sure do not.. and if you have that much extra spending cash a year.. a new expansion needing to get a tier 6 should not be a issue.
As far as you only using Canon ships.. hey more power to you.. but remember we have NO.. I repeat NO info on how there upgrading t5 to t6 if its a real upgrade or if its a mounting weapons... all we have is a bunch of uneducated guess work and a brief statement. until they shed more light on the "upgrade" program people really should hold judgment that its all doom and gloom.
The only real issue is people fear and hate change.. they are comfortable where they are and any change to that becomes a threat. These same things came out in wow expansions.. the forums were ablaze with people complaining that there hours and hours of game time were totally wasted do to a new tier of gear... they didn't want there being the best geared player on there server threatened.
So again I welcome the reshuffling of power scale in the game.. including ships.. Given I bought there newest escort + the fleet version my ship will be "out dated" in just a few months and I am ok with that.
Hmm, I'd have thought the sensible thing was until they shed more light on things not to buy any tier 5 ships.
You're talking about something that happened on STOked, not Priority One.
piddle..I blame my advanced age.
The core flaw of the STO F2P model right there. Dunno, maybe sell some of those 'side story' missions everyone seems to want for a reasonable price? Ship costumes? But I digress.
Empathy requires you to see the other side's point of view. You are being dismissive of the other sides point of view. That is what I dislike about how you are coming across to me about this subject in the podcast.
How should the upgrade be handled? Ideally a reasonable dilithium cost to upgrade the existing ships to be equal stat wise to the new T6 ships. That means if T6 ships get 10% more shields and an extra console slot, existing ships should be upgradeable to that standard for purple rocks.
No worries.
And look, we all play the game and have invested large amounts of time and/or money into it. While I'm keenly interested in finding out in what manner ships will be updated, I simply cannot believe that they will NOT be brought up to par. Heck, if anything they have brought many more ships up to T5 level that weren't before over time via the Fleet system. When I reached max level back in the day I couldn't fly a T5 version of many of the ships we now have. The devs MUST know that the game, for many people, is as much about the choice of ships as it is about anything else.
No one, I think least of all them, is going to want everyone at 60th to be flying around in just a handful of different ships per faction. It also doesn't jive with their statements that certain ships are lockbox/lobi instead of C-store to retain sort of a "ship demographic".
None of these things explicitly state that our current ships will be on par with the new T6, but I think Cryptic would be fools to fly in the face of the fact that many players heavily identify with their ships and, even if they collect many new ships, have favorites they want to play regardless of what comes out.
Parity is fuzzy anyway. My Dhelan trades a few points in power levels vs. an Advanced Escort in exchange for a boff roster full of Operatives, a Rom Battlecloak and Singularity powers for example! So if some of the neato new powers unique to T6 native ships are awesome, that's okay as long as there's some tradeoff to them mechanically.
I'm not sure why people are so quick to believe that we /won't/ be able to upgrade Fleet-grade ships to T6 level, roughly, similarly to how we upgrade RA ships to VA (9-console to 10-console). We don't know yet, sure, but I am pretty confident given the precedents we have. Fleet versions of VA and C-store ships plus the upgrade they did to Lockbox/Lobi ships when the Fleet system launched are our past experiences with new ship "levels" being added. Those were fine.
Just my 2 energy credits as always.
--Jayce
Jae'sien@xeperi
Priority One
I don't want to fly un-offiical ships.
The problem developers are running into now is something they should have asked themselves 3 years ago before they decided to build their business around selling new ships - or rather build their business around something with a limited supply.
Seems to me buying a t6 ship, a better ship perhaps, is their attempt at apologizing for you now having to fly a fake ship.
So we know how sad that is, here have some better stats.
But I am sorry I won't be flying it no matter how much better it is.
"Fake" ships seems a little harsh, if only given the context. STO is set, what, 40 years after TNG? There is no way that the Galaxy, Defiant and Intrepid classes - or anything else originating in the eras of the TV shows - would still be the top of the line for the Federation.
(And yes, the Vesta is an oddity in that regard...)
Anyway, the whole argument now revolves around what is meant by "competitive". Are we talking Fleet ships vs Lockbox ships, or standard T5 vs Lockbox?
I suspect that what Cryptic will do depends on a lot of metrics we, the playerbase, can't see. Do they make significant money from the sale of retrofit "classic" ships like the Galaxy? Have sales of the 3-pack ships dried up? Have Master Key sales - and by extension the demand for Lockbox ships - dropped? It's all about the cashflow, folks, and we don't have that information.
I just take comfort from a couple of points:
1. New Intrepid interior. This suggests to me that Cryptic believe that the roleplayer market - those that want to play what they've seen on TV - is still a significant factor. So what, if you want to sell that classic interior, presumably you're still expecting to sell a few ships as well. Therefore it would make sense to keep the classics at least reasonably competitive.
2. JHAS Free Upgrade. Perhaps this is Cryptic singling out their ultimate cash cow, but the JHAS is expicitly described as being "upgraded to T6". Not to "competitive with T6". This is consistent with the way that all the extant lockbox ships were upgraded when the fleet ships arrived - so I have a strong suspicion that all lockbox ships will be fully upgradeable to T6. The numbers are probably small enough that they won't dent the overall sales of T6 vessels.
New bridge has zero to do with roleplayers, rather something that was being used anyway for story or cutscene or mission they of course should try and sell now they had it built anyway
Many people have asked for a canon Intrepid/Voyager interior over the years. I don't think putting the time and resources into making it at a point where it can serve a dual purpose is bad at all. And I do also think it is a data point suggestive that existing ships will be upgraded to a level where people who want to fly canon/"hero" ships will be comfortable doing so. We'll see!
--Jayce
Jae'sien@xeperi
Priority One
ok, firstly, join date on the forums means nothing... sorry, but the forums have been restarted what, twice now.. so technically, no on one the forums has a join date before pwe took over. ill chock that up to you not being around then... I have been with this game since beta, that's before launch if you don't know what beta is. (im assuming you don't since you didn't know about the forums being moved and everyone having to re-sign up for them)..
secondly, yes, I have paid more in sto than in wow.. I bought 1 mount in wow for 10, and one for 25.. and I purchased the games and paid my monthly fee. there was times I didn't subscribe the whole year, but there were times I didn't play the whole year in star trek.
that being said, I bought all of the editions of the game when it launched (as to have all of the goodies (I started with the lowest, than realized I wanted the goodies in the others lol)... so that right there is a few hundred bucks..
then, back in the day when this game was actually star trek, they sold a bunch of skins for ships, and bridges, and clothing, and while I didn't purchase it all at once, I did purchase it all over time.. I subbed in this game for about a year and a half, and then bought a lifetime subscription..
also, I ran a fleet (and I ran a guild in wow) and I have spent a lot on prizes (I gave out fleet modules and keys as prizes for fleet events). further more, I have purchased almost all of the ships ingame, and then asked to repurchase them for consoles along the way.. I actually didn't have to spend real life money to get cool prizes in wow, but that is besides the point, two different types of games.. ]
now, currently, I own most of the ships.. and, I have roughly 8-10 characters at max level that I have geared fully out, and purchased expanded inventory and boff slots for. (most them have all of it unlocked). most of those characters have opened enough boxes to get at least two of the consoles out of lobi store (all bought with money, and its a lot). and between all of my characters, I have most of the ships..
I even bought the steam bundle for the steam runner.
most definatly I have spent more in my nearly 5 years at sto, than I did in wow..
now.. im not saying that every purchase needs to be upgraded. I understand about the reshuffling of power.. but ships are not equipment.. ships are your avatar.. its not just that I spent money on them, I spent money to fly a ship that I like.. the few ships I did not purchase were due to not being canon, or me not liking them..
when I play sto, I want my character to look a certain way, in space, my character is my ship, them forcing me to possible change what my character in space looks like sucks.. and I will not stand for it.. again, your not getting the argument, so please stop commenting.. your commenting about black, when we are all talking about orange..
most people in the same boat as me understand the need to increase the mark level of items, and most welcome it. but we do not want to be forced into flying a ship that visually doesn't do it for us.. and since most of us paid money to have our character look that way in space, it sucks even more.. its not about being afraid of change, bring change on, but...half the ships I fly do not have the boff seating I wish them to have, I fly them because I like the ship, and I like the looks.. to further make that experience worse, is kind of a holeish..
also, I did say in my statement that we know nothing, and that im just saying that if cryptic screws it up like they usually do than I will not have it.. for all I know it will be fine, but experience with cryptic has proven that the worst case is the most likely scenario...
How is that a data point? We have a Connie interior and we know without a doubt that it will never see end game.
This one paragraph is so..so..wrong.
Ships are your weapons.. not your avatar.. there your armor.. not your avatar
You play a Race, a person, not a ship and your persona commands its engine of war. Given you bought all the ships but only play canon.. you sure seem to not have a money issue.
You said you played wow for 10 years.. well I guess you really didn't.. and given you have so much money to buy every ship in the game.... why are you complaining? Are you still pissed off about buying a tier 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 that are all obsolete in end game now?
I'm sorry this is the nature of mmo's and if a tier 6 ship costs 25 bucks its still less then any mmo's that are p2p expansions such as GW or WoW.. So you may like to buy every ship out there but that's a choice.. most are not going to buy every ship in the game but they will invest there $25 bucks that covers the expansion costs that any mmo would normally charge.
in the end vs any other paid expansion its really not a big deal..and hell you can save dilithum and exchange it for zen and not pay a dime.. so win/win for all more content, more ships, new balance, new class of boffs. The only losers are the people burned out on STO and do not want more content or the epeen crowed that do want there being the best geared out there right now threatened.
I swear I think some people just like to complain.. this is a mmo and all mmo re-tier and structure there games..normally every 1 to 2 years.. sto has need this type of over haul for awhile.
I personally would like special event and lock boxes ships with more then just a bridge... the inside of a breen or the xindi aquatic ship would/could be so cool. but we know that wont happen.
No, it's quite correct. The ship is your avatar when in space, and the devs have flat out said as much on several occasions.
I'm not sure if that poster fully understood what was meant by the statement that our ship is our avatar when we're in space.
Yes, it is true. When on a space map, the game loads your ship's model as your character model, and your ship stats as your character stats. In essence, from the game's perspective, you are your ship.
There were some extremely funny bugs in the early days when we would beam to ESD, but the game would fail to swap our ship for our character model. turns out a Miranda class ship is only about 4 feet across!
Edit: Like this!
Its a matter of perspective.. a Avatar is something you control to a dev..
But in a RPG sense your Avatar is "you" your true avatar is you the captain.. you do not get to change your "avatar" or persona of your captain. You do get to change your ship.. So for a RPG you are playing a captain that controls a ship. So yes if referring to your ships as your controlling avatar is space then you can say from a dev perspective its your "avatar" But from a MMORPG stand point your avatar is your character commanding that ship.
We were just looking at from different perspectives.. given he was talking about canon and such I was referring to it from a MORPG stand point not a DEV technical stand point.
The Constitution-class is proscribed by CBS/Paramount from being used beyond certain guidelines. The Defiant, which we also have a full interior for, is not, and we have had an upgrade path for that. The Intrepid and Galaxy also have upgrade paths from T4 and Refit, to T5 Retrofit and Fleet. Sufficient grounds to call it, as I said, a /suggestive/ data point. Not a conclusive one. If it were conclusive though, we wouldn't be debating it. Ultimately we are waiting for definite information.
--Jayce
Again you are missing the point and you arguing semantics. In this game, our ship is just as much as our avatar as our ship captain. This is the thinking of the majority of STO players and the Devs.
Cryptic could show a great deal of class by supporting this kickstarter and thus the Star Trek community with some simple Zen offers...
At the very least, an Axanar Lockbox that gives a chance to win a refurbished Ares or D-7 class ship. A portion of the proceeds can fund the kickstarter. I am convinced the players would make this the best selling lockbox they have had.
CEO Skyforge industries
Sweet signature.
How did you do that?
Probably too complex to get done but I'd support it.
Perhaps a thought for the future......
So. . . all of these fan productions like Axandar (or Phase 2 or Continues or Renegades, etc.) are essentially allowed to exist by CBS as long as they aren't making any money off of the IP. CBS doesn't support them, but they also don't stop them, unless they are infringing on Trek for profit (which I think is an amazing and laudable stance in the age we live in.)
STO is an officially licensed product. While we, individuals can contribute and support Axanar (or any of the others), I think it would create a pretty mushy legal grey area if STO supported those projects in any official capacity.
So, no, I don't think we could/should/will support them as a project/company.
Very nice
Taco, just simply say they are fan productions and you're not allowed to use them. :rolleyes:
The D7 has been in STO since Day 1 and there is a Fleet Tier 5 version. Only thing that it lacks is an authentic skin, the return of the nacelle glow, and a Warbird paintjob for the Romulans.
As for your financial suggestion, even if CBS said so, I actually think it might be illegal to do that.