I am not going to hide my feelings. I really do hate 'what Cryptic is doing to a 'Star Trek' title'. I do not hate cryptic employees on a personal level; however, I do think the company is crossing some serious ethical lines. 'Free 2 Play' developers design games for a quick and steady flow of cash. Instead of creating a deep and meaningful experience, similar to 'SW: TOR' or 'Dragon Age', 'Free 2 Play' developers design games with the illusion of progress. 'Star Trek: Online' is 'Farmville: In Space'. Players are unlocking and buying their rewards.
'Star Trek' fans deserve a better quality experience.
Practicing good business ethics is key.
What you are seeing in the forums is a reaction to the practice of bad business ethics. Many players know there is something seriously wrong with the game.
Do you want to 'earn' your rewards through 'story driven character progression'?
Do you want to 'buy' your trophies through 'intense grinds and timegates'?
If you choose the 'buying option', the end result is a hollow experience.
Play a game similar to 'Dragon Age: Origins' and 'Skyrim'. You will see the difference in game quality.
Okay, two things:
1) The vast majority of MMOs these days are some form of free-to-play. This is not because the vast majority of MMO developers have "bad business ethics" and are only in it for "a quick and steady flow of cash"; this is because the market for subscription-only MMOs went down the drain with the economic recession and never showed signs of ever coming back. The entertainment industry as a whole suffered for a while, but the MMO market especially because people were largely able to get their fix via (mostly Asian at first) f2p games. The North American side of the industry just followed suit and adopted business models that were viable post-recession. Even WoW, one of - if not the only - major subscription-only MMOs left has seen a dramatic decrease in its userbase over the last few years. They're still the 800-lb gorilla, but the fact thet even they've taken a hit in numbers should say something.
There are hybrid subscription/f2p MMOs on the market, such as SWTOR or STO. SWTOR uses its f2p model as essentially coercion to buy a subscription, as there are LOTS of limitations on what free players can do or make use of. I've tried playing it several times. Comparatively, STO doesn't gate all that much behind a monthly paywall. Being a subscriber here gets you, what -- 500 zen a month, some extra storage, some respec tokens, and vet rewards (assuming you stay subscribed)? I've played some F2P MMOs that truly were cash grabs, and STO is not among them.
2) Comparing an MMO - any MMO - to single-player games like Dragon Age or Skyrim is by no means an honest comparison. For starters, it's a hell of a lot easier to create immersion when there's only one player-controlled character at the center of the story. MMOs have to operate under the conceit that, while story-based content can somewhat be tailored to assume that an individual player's character is at the heart of the story, there will ultimately be many players experiencing the same content simultaneously. Also, single-player games have the luxury of dictating the mechanics of the game. If they wanted to, the developers could make combat an absolute last resort in their game. MMOs by their nature largely consist of combat as a means of advancement. You can add other systems, but by and large, players will gravitate towards pew-pewing for their XP. Whether or not this is a good fit for a game based off of Star Trek is a discussion for another day. Finally, while the developers of single-player games may continue support via patches or DLC, once a game ships, the development cycle is generally considered to be done. This means matters of funding and budget are pretty much taken care of up front. Because MMOs are in a constant development cycle, there will always be the concern of where the money to continue that development cycle will come from. The subscription model used to be viable; that's no longer the case. So as stated, most MMOs have gone to F2P simply because it is a viable model for ensuring continued revenue.
Honestly, I think the subscription model started to decline for reasons unconnected to the US economy. I suspect it had more to do with developers working to find a way around the "sticker shock" aspect of paying for subscriptions. Lots of games had that "free trial" thing, but that only worked with certain ways of purchasing the game. With the (increasingly popular) direct download method you can't really do that. Thus you have F2P. Peeps can play but don't get access to everything.
Once again, this thread does not represent the opinions of the whole community, just a disgruntled player. Let me guess, you had max level crafting in the old system, and now you have to start over. The old crafting system sucked. You spend all day in the clusters and sidetracking yourself from missions to collect all these data samples and whatnot, then have to run all the way to memory alpha , only to make the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again until you run out of stuff in order to make any progress. I stopped bothering after the first couple of times, because I don't have all day to waste my time farming and crafting junk to obtain experience. With this new setup, I can start research and continue with my main missions unhindered. This is especially helpful for my new character, who has a lot to do and little time each day to do it in.
And why should they even bother giving an explanation? How do the players even think we deserve one? Based on past history, all that would result is more criticism, whining, threats to quit playing, and even then, you'll never be satisfied with whatever explanation they give. And they certainly dont owe an apology for making changes to their game. Did you even stop to think that maybe these changes are part of a bigger plan? I doubt it. Let the devs do their thing, stop acting like you speak for the whole community, and see what happens next.
Well said...I am actually looking forward to seeing what the new exploration will do, for instance has anyone really sat back and taken in how big the Dyson map is and how many things are going on?
Well said...I am actually looking forward to seeing what the new exploration will do, for instance has anyone really sat back and taken in how big the Dyson map is and how many things are going on?
Yes...I have. It makes me question the sanity of a developer who thinks bigger is always better, even when it means the finer details are overlooked. It also makes me question the sanity of a civilization that has to build on such a grand scale as to render everything useless. Perhaps a galactic phallic symbol? I can't imagine why anyone would choose to traverse such long distances many times a day "just because." And what about the maintenance on the structures? How are the power siphons kept running being that they're SO huge? And lastly, I wonder how desperate they have to be the have laser shooting dinosaurs in a Star Trek game. I guess T-Rex mounted space blasters are all the rage in MMOs now. :rolleyes:
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
Yes...I have. It makes me question the sanity of a developer who thinks bigger is always better, even when it means the finer details are overlooked. It also makes me question the sanity of a civilization that has to build on such a grand scale as to render everything useless. Perhaps a galactic phallic symbol? I can't imagine why anyone would choose to traverse such long distances many times a day "just because." And what about the maintenance on the structures? How are the power siphons kept running being that they're SO huge? And lastly, I wonder how desperate they have to be the have laser shooting dinosaurs in a Star Trek game. I guess T-Rex mounted space blasters are all the rage in MMOs now. :rolleyes:
I'm sure good old fashioned Star Trek techno babble can give you perfectly rational explanations for all these decisions.
I'm sure good old fashioned Star Trek techno babble can give you perfectly rational explanations for all these decisions.
HAHA there isn't much technobabble in a game that's gone so heavily into Voyager territory, is there?
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
One of the reasons it is hard to justify a monthly sub is because how difficult it is to even marginally keep up with players in producing content.
If you noticed ESO coming out the developers no. 1 reason for even considering asking for a sub was believing they could/can keep up.
I think there are a lot of in's and out's and you can't just point to any one thing or finish that convo in 2 minutes.
Personally I feel that STO is the best f2p game to date by leaps and bounds especially in comparison to games like star wars or dc universe online - both which supposedly ought to have a strong fanbase.
That said is it very star trek no not really.
I think to sell them "exploration" or "puzzle", "dilplomacy" you have to come up with an idea that has both mainstream appeal and will cost dil or zen in some form or another.
Look at how dil was put into crafting or fleet projects, that's what they are looking for.
So, y'all who is lid on exploration should make a thread with suggestions and think dil first then that's the best you can do.
You probably are right they don't have time or ability to get creative or is able to reflect on an idea for 25 hours a day, so help them with suggestions
Seriously though, I don't get where the notion comes from that you are not allowed to criticize a product you are using. Recent changes in the game are highly questionable from a lot of players points of view. This is something you as a developer need to listen to, it doesn't matter how that criticism sounds, the core is important. Of course you can also chose to ingore everything which is Cryptic's current policy but then at least say so and don't deliver thin excuses all the time.
Takes your breath away doesn't it ?
Then they get on a podcast and rant about forum rants, dismissing any well thought out opinions provided to them that doesn't fit their vision (Galaxy class ......
Well said...I am actually looking forward to seeing what the new exploration will do, for instance has anyone really sat back and taken in how big the Dyson map is and how many things are going on?
I seem to remember an old thread about how the sphere has a crack in it. It's something interesting to ponder. There's a lot of subtle things to find in the Dyson maps. Like the explanati0on for where those giant worms come from.
Honestly, I think the subscription model started to decline for reasons unconnected to the US economy. I suspect it had more to do with developers working to find a way around the "sticker shock" aspect of paying for subscriptions. Lots of games had that "free trial" thing, but that only worked with certain ways of purchasing the game. With the (increasingly popular) direct download method you can't really do that. Thus you have F2P. Peeps can play but don't get access to everything.
That may be a factor, and there are also a lot more MMOs out there onw then there was when, say, WoW started (or heck, Everquest? ).
People are willing to subscribe to one game , but two? Pretty much out of the question.
But F2P games - you can hop on, play a bit, and leave. No hassle. A significant amount of players may never do more than that. MAybe they spend a bit of money eventually.
The important thing is that a minority (probably the type of people that would have played the game if it had a subscription) spends money on the game, and a lot more than they would if it was just a 15 $ monthly subscription with no pay-store stuff.
One could call it unethical, because a minority pays for a larger number of players, and people are "tricked" into spending more than they normally would.
But I am not so sure, really. The alternative would be that the game most likely would not even exist, or see a lot less updates and expansions, because the money just isn't coming.
Can it not be, that under these circumstances, that someone spending 500 $ or whatever on a game is just fine, if the alternative was not to have that game at all? ANd the 500 $ STO player can still jump onto TOR and spend no dime at all, and a host of other free to play titles whenever he wants - but if he had done that with a standard subscription model system, he woulid have spend 15 $ on each of these games!
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Is it not about time to close this thread.. seems to be going round in circles with the same people saying the same things over and over. Ok so many people don't like the new UI, but then many people do, or at the least don't think it's bad enough to add their voices in here. I didn't like it day 1, but now I'm fine with it, as I guess most people are. It is a work in progress, but I think people need to accept that this is our doff ui going forward, they may be happy to make changes as we have seen, but they will not hit revers. Hell, I'm even crafting.. it may be slow going, I'm not prepared to spend dilithium, but then again, before the patch I never crafted period! Opinions have been given, spleens vented and points solidly made. Is it not time to just move on? Those who genuinly felt the changes warranted leaving the game have gone, while the rest of us.....
It's about time they gave us a direct response, rather than assuming the expansion is to blame. They're CHOOSING not to respond. I say this because Tacofangs has been here in the last couple days. I'd like to know why they have no comment, and why their customers mean so little to them that they'd ignore them on a whim.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
I don't think they have an actual plan and never had... :D:D
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
and someone call the press someone is crafting that did not craft before 9.money grab came out because the Dev thought not adding new items to the old system was ok and ppl would craft and love it :rolleyes:
Is it not about time to close this thread.. seems to be going round in circles with the same people saying the same things over and over. Ok so many people don't like the new UI, but then many people do, or at the least don't think it's bad enough to add their voices in here. I didn't like it day 1, but now I'm fine with it, as I guess most people are. It is a work in progress, but I think people need to accept that this is our doff ui going forward, they may be happy to make changes as we have seen, but they will not hit revers. Hell, I'm even crafting.. it may be slow going, I'm not prepared to spend dilithium, but then again, before the patch I never crafted period! Opinions have been given, spleens vented and points solidly made. Is it not time to just move on? Those who genuinly felt the changes warranted leaving the game have gone, while the rest of us.....
you dont have to read it.
of course 'mod pls close' is typically all an overzealous moderator needs to see to convince them they are doing the right thing by stifling valid concerns.
you dont have to read it.
of course 'mod pls close' is typically all an overzealous moderator needs to see to convince them they are doing the right thing by stifling valid concerns.
Or this overzealous mod has been reading this thread since it came into existance waiting for it to actually make a point and yet no point has ever been made has decided it's time for it to close (plus I just now had time today to sit down and read it all again).
So yes, this thread will be closed. Here from the FCT is why developers don't come on the forums (an exert of it anyways, you're more than welcome to read the FCT for the whole thing)
-
Who's stopping you from posting anything negative? I see negative posts on this forum CONSTANTLY. No one here is deleting posts, or regulating what emotions you can have about the game. Yes, editing happens when something violates the TOS, but there is nothing in the TOS about not posting negative opinions.
Now, when will a Dev choose to reply to something? That's not so easy. You're right, that we likely don't respond as often to negative posts as we do to positive posts. There are a couple of reasons for that.
1) Positive posts make us feel good about ourselves. It turns out devs are humans, and as humans, we like to feel good. This includes people talking well of something we have done. Negative posts generally make us feel bad about ourselves. And as valid as it might be, we don't like feeling bad about ourselves.
2) In general, we want to keep a positive and uplifting tone to our forums, and want people to feel positive about our game. This encourages more people to play it. When we post, we draw attention to a thread. If that thread is negative in nature, the people who read it will tend to feel worse about the game. Since we draw attention when we post, we potentially draw more people into that thread than would go to it naturally, and thus, more people end up feeling bad about the game than might have otherwise. The inverse is true for positive posts.
Why don't Geko or Stahl post more? They're CRAZY busy. They are the LEADS of the project. They're in meetings something like 27 hours a day. And when they have down time, they likely don't want to even think about the game, let alone open themselves up to the forums.
*Note - This was taken when Dan was still EP, he isn't anymore obviously.
Also realize they aren't REQUIRED by any means to post on here. If they want to, they will. If they don't, they won't. It's how it is.
As I stated in the beginning, this thread is closed as it's going around dancing about DOFF UI, Crafting (which both have their own feedback threads for) and the fact that everyone thinks the dev team ignores them.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Comments
Okay, two things:
1) The vast majority of MMOs these days are some form of free-to-play. This is not because the vast majority of MMO developers have "bad business ethics" and are only in it for "a quick and steady flow of cash"; this is because the market for subscription-only MMOs went down the drain with the economic recession and never showed signs of ever coming back. The entertainment industry as a whole suffered for a while, but the MMO market especially because people were largely able to get their fix via (mostly Asian at first) f2p games. The North American side of the industry just followed suit and adopted business models that were viable post-recession. Even WoW, one of - if not the only - major subscription-only MMOs left has seen a dramatic decrease in its userbase over the last few years. They're still the 800-lb gorilla, but the fact thet even they've taken a hit in numbers should say something.
There are hybrid subscription/f2p MMOs on the market, such as SWTOR or STO. SWTOR uses its f2p model as essentially coercion to buy a subscription, as there are LOTS of limitations on what free players can do or make use of. I've tried playing it several times. Comparatively, STO doesn't gate all that much behind a monthly paywall. Being a subscriber here gets you, what -- 500 zen a month, some extra storage, some respec tokens, and vet rewards (assuming you stay subscribed)? I've played some F2P MMOs that truly were cash grabs, and STO is not among them.
2) Comparing an MMO - any MMO - to single-player games like Dragon Age or Skyrim is by no means an honest comparison. For starters, it's a hell of a lot easier to create immersion when there's only one player-controlled character at the center of the story. MMOs have to operate under the conceit that, while story-based content can somewhat be tailored to assume that an individual player's character is at the heart of the story, there will ultimately be many players experiencing the same content simultaneously. Also, single-player games have the luxury of dictating the mechanics of the game. If they wanted to, the developers could make combat an absolute last resort in their game. MMOs by their nature largely consist of combat as a means of advancement. You can add other systems, but by and large, players will gravitate towards pew-pewing for their XP. Whether or not this is a good fit for a game based off of Star Trek is a discussion for another day. Finally, while the developers of single-player games may continue support via patches or DLC, once a game ships, the development cycle is generally considered to be done. This means matters of funding and budget are pretty much taken care of up front. Because MMOs are in a constant development cycle, there will always be the concern of where the money to continue that development cycle will come from. The subscription model used to be viable; that's no longer the case. So as stated, most MMOs have gone to F2P simply because it is a viable model for ensuring continued revenue.
My character Tsin'xing
Well said...I am actually looking forward to seeing what the new exploration will do, for instance has anyone really sat back and taken in how big the Dyson map is and how many things are going on?
Yes...I have. It makes me question the sanity of a developer who thinks bigger is always better, even when it means the finer details are overlooked. It also makes me question the sanity of a civilization that has to build on such a grand scale as to render everything useless. Perhaps a galactic phallic symbol? I can't imagine why anyone would choose to traverse such long distances many times a day "just because." And what about the maintenance on the structures? How are the power siphons kept running being that they're SO huge? And lastly, I wonder how desperate they have to be the have laser shooting dinosaurs in a Star Trek game. I guess T-Rex mounted space blasters are all the rage in MMOs now. :rolleyes:
I'm sure good old fashioned Star Trek techno babble can give you perfectly rational explanations for all these decisions.
HAHA there isn't much technobabble in a game that's gone so heavily into Voyager territory, is there?
If you noticed ESO coming out the developers no. 1 reason for even considering asking for a sub was believing they could/can keep up.
I think there are a lot of in's and out's and you can't just point to any one thing or finish that convo in 2 minutes.
Personally I feel that STO is the best f2p game to date by leaps and bounds especially in comparison to games like star wars or dc universe online - both which supposedly ought to have a strong fanbase.
That said is it very star trek no not really.
I think to sell them "exploration" or "puzzle", "dilplomacy" you have to come up with an idea that has both mainstream appeal and will cost dil or zen in some form or another.
Look at how dil was put into crafting or fleet projects, that's what they are looking for.
So, y'all who is lid on exploration should make a thread with suggestions and think dil first then that's the best you can do.
You probably are right they don't have time or ability to get creative or is able to reflect on an idea for 25 hours a day, so help them with suggestions
Takes your breath away doesn't it ?
Then they get on a podcast and rant about forum rants, dismissing any well thought out opinions provided to them that doesn't fit their vision (Galaxy class ......
My character Tsin'xing
That may be a factor, and there are also a lot more MMOs out there onw then there was when, say, WoW started (or heck, Everquest?
People are willing to subscribe to one game , but two? Pretty much out of the question.
But F2P games - you can hop on, play a bit, and leave. No hassle. A significant amount of players may never do more than that. MAybe they spend a bit of money eventually.
The important thing is that a minority (probably the type of people that would have played the game if it had a subscription) spends money on the game, and a lot more than they would if it was just a 15 $ monthly subscription with no pay-store stuff.
One could call it unethical, because a minority pays for a larger number of players, and people are "tricked" into spending more than they normally would.
But I am not so sure, really. The alternative would be that the game most likely would not even exist, or see a lot less updates and expansions, because the money just isn't coming.
Can it not be, that under these circumstances, that someone spending 500 $ or whatever on a game is just fine, if the alternative was not to have that game at all? ANd the 500 $ STO player can still jump onto TOR and spend no dime at all, and a host of other free to play titles whenever he wants - but if he had done that with a standard subscription model system, he woulid have spend 15 $ on each of these games!
I don't think they have an actual plan and never had...
and someone call the press someone is crafting that did not craft before 9.money grab came out because the Dev thought not adding new items to the old system was ok and ppl would craft and love it :rolleyes:
system Lord Baal is dead
you dont have to read it.
of course 'mod pls close' is typically all an overzealous moderator needs to see to convince them they are doing the right thing by stifling valid concerns.
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.. but not this thread.
\m/ \m/
up the irons!
lol
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Or this overzealous mod has been reading this thread since it came into existance waiting for it to actually make a point and yet no point has ever been made has decided it's time for it to close (plus I just now had time today to sit down and read it all again).
So yes, this thread will be closed. Here from the FCT is why developers don't come on the forums (an exert of it anyways, you're more than welcome to read the FCT for the whole thing)
-
*Note - This was taken when Dan was still EP, he isn't anymore obviously.
Also realize they aren't REQUIRED by any means to post on here. If they want to, they will. If they don't, they won't. It's how it is.
As I stated in the beginning, this thread is closed as it's going around dancing about DOFF UI, Crafting (which both have their own feedback threads for) and the fact that everyone thinks the dev team ignores them.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113