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So about the invisible FX...

dichtbringerdichtbringer Member Posts: 120 Arc User
I know this bug has been in the game forever, but only since Season 9 start has it really become a problem. You do realize that not being able to see your weapons or other graphical effects (Grav Well etc) is a huge problem right?

I also know there is already a thread (possibly multiple) in the bug report and the graphics forum, but since no dev could bring himself to even acknowledge the problem, I will just make a new one here :P

In the unlikely case the devs have no idea what I'm talking about, just do a CCE run and try to find your own beams.
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Post edited by dichtbringer on

Comments

  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Didn they say it was a build in thing, to avoid too much screen-lag?
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • mspfuelermspfueler Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I always assumed it was my old video card being crushed by vast numbers of objects. Or we all could be:



    DOOOOOOMED!


    Try it once with minimal graphics settings.
    Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam!

  • ltdata96ltdata96 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    mspfueler wrote: »
    I always assumed it was my old video card being crushed by vast numbers of objects. Or we all could be:



    DOOOOOOMED!


    Try it once with minimal graphics settings.

    NEVVVVERRR.

    Lowering graphics settings from max equals DOOOOOOOOM
  • havokreignhavokreign Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    If they know the engine can render only so many objects, it might make more sense to design areas that aren't stuffed full of environmental garbage, while endlessly spamming enemy objects to zerg rush players all the while regurgitating their own AOE.

    In my experience the game has always had issues with zone containing more than 10 players too (and CEE wasn't this bad before U9). I've never been able to render the 20 man fleet raids.

    So lets also make all these new, cluttered areas, have no player limit other than what the instance can handle.

    But it all looks great, doesn't it?
  • lexandro21lexandro21 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    There is a system employed across multiple games, and across multiple formats to resolve such issues as a limitation on the number of effects drawn by a games engine. Its called "Culling", and its something the game has and its broken. If the number of effects reaches a point where the engine cant render them, effects with certain criteria are disabled (ie not shown). The FIRST criteria is that you never cull the players effects for his client, you cull everyone else instead.

    This is the first thing thats wrong with STO graphically atm. The system "culls" the wrong objects and effects, ie our effects and those in an area around us but shows all others beyond that range. That is simply bass ackward and needs fixed.

    Secondly there also appears to be a transparency layering bug, where the effects are "hidden" by looking at particular objects when in combat. For example the Starbase in STF's will almost always cause all visual effects to vanish when you look at it. To me this is indicative of the transparent layer of the Starbase texture being displayed above the weapon effects layer, which by its very nature means that any effects displayed on the layer below it are then made "transparent". Ive seen this issue first and second hand myself, for instance Codemasters made the exact same error with its F1 2013 title, whereby water effects on the race track would "vanish" under the transparency layer of the tire tracks texture effect even in monsoon conditions.

    Both issues are solvable and would massively improve the games visual effects and kill the "missing effects" bug dead.

    So imo its not just "a limitation of the engine" for the faults we find.
    H5jACRj.jpg



  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Cryptic & Expansion 2 :

    "...Awesome content ....

    ...Buy Our Stuffs ...

    ...Can't See Your Weapons ???

    THERE'S YOUR EXPLORATION !!!

    ... Buy Our Stuffs ?? "



    ... U Haz Been Trolled ...
  • puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    Didn they say it was a build in thing, to avoid too much screen-lag?

    yes, but they botched it up (as is the cryptic way).. instead of removing your weapons fire, it should remove others.. I have played with fleet mates, where my weapons fire doesn't show on my screen, but shows on a fleet mates screen, while his weapons are not being shown..

    it makes no sense.. this is a major /facepalm.. but its par for the course with the crappy engine and codeing this game receives..
  • puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    mspfueler wrote: »
    I always assumed it was my old video card being crushed by vast numbers of objects. Or we all could be:



    DOOOOOOMED!


    Try it once with minimal graphics settings.

    why in the hell would I be expected to lower my graphics settings? I didn't spend the money on a rig that can shew this game up and spit it out to be limited by cryptic servers and engine..

    lol.. the fact that you thought that was a viable answer to the problem is doom in itself..
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    puttenham wrote: »
    yes, but they botched it up (as is the cryptic way).. instead of removing your weapons fire, it should remove others.. I have played with fleet mates, where my weapons fire doesn't show on my screen, but shows on a fleet mates screen, while his weapons are not being shown..

    it makes no sense.. this is a major /facepalm.. but its par for the course with the crappy engine and codeing this game receives..

    I agree... nuff said...
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • gurugeorgegurugeorge Member Posts: 421 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Yeah it's really surprising that your own stuff is culled, that should be the absolute last thing to be culled if you want people to feel Kirk-ey with the toys they've paid for.
  • belidosbelidos Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Invisible FX? I Don't see any invisible FX :p
  • edited July 2014
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  • captainpugwash1captainpugwash1 Member Posts: 908 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Space battle zone, dont even play it anymore, C.C.E tank up my Jem D.C. & just sit their pressing the fire button, only play that for fleet marks. the prob even occurs in 5 man missions as well.
    I think cryptic are just hoping that if they keep ignoring it players will get fed up and stop complaining, NO players will get fed up and walk away......

    PS NO VISUALS ON SHIELD, WEAPONS, TRACTOR BEAMS, ENG SCI TAC TEAMS the list go's on & on,,,:{
  • sle1989sle1989 Member Posts: 552 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    ...but since no dev could bring himself to even acknowledge the problem...

    Being super hostile like this in any kind of thread will not get a response by the devs. In fact, it guarantees that you won't get a response (Except for maybe a grunt and an eye roll).


    Now, perhaps they could look at Starbase Fleet Defense, while the game will slow down I for one am still able to see weapon and ability effects in that mission despite the number of people and enemies, maybe something there can be applied to other parts of the game?
    y1arXbh.png

  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Actually, it makes more sense for them to cull your own weapons than others.

    Any time you're in a firefight, you need to know who is shooting at you, and where they are. The only time you need to see your own weapons is if you're firing broadsides and need to see if you have your aft weapons firing.

    I'm in a beamboat, so I do have to rotate the camera to check on my after weapons, but it beats taking damage form invisible sources.
  • edited July 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • lexandro21lexandro21 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    darkjeff wrote: »
    Actually, it makes more sense for them to cull your own weapons than others.

    Any time you're in a firefight, you need to know who is shooting at you, and where they are. The only time you need to see your own weapons is if you're firing broadsides and need to see if you have your aft weapons firing.

    I'm in a beamboat, so I do have to rotate the camera to check on my after weapons, but it beats taking damage form invisible sources.

    Sorry It doesnt make any sense to cull our weapons, particularly when it leaves the other players weapon effects active. There is zero need to see a team mates weapon effects in combat, but there is an absolute need to see your own. Being able to tell if your weapons are offline at a glance, what if any proc effects trigger, and what effects are active on your ship or the enemies.

    I dont need to if "XxXx James T Kirk xXxX" is firing his beams/cannons/torps at a bad guy but I sure as hell need to know if MY weapons are working.
    H5jACRj.jpg



  • policestate76policestate76 Member Posts: 1,424 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    Didn they say it was a build in thing, to avoid too much screen-lag?

    Seriously, in a game like STO, why the hell someone will implement such a feature in a game engine?? ... :confused:. Thats the problem. Its ok to sometimes not be able to see my weapons, when A LOT of people are in the screen, but not to be able to see my weapons or other fx almost EVER, its ridiculous. They should fix this in some way before they launch the next expansion, but im afraid, since people is not too worried about this (same about all the other bugs in the game) cryptic will never do anything about it. The next expansion will be probably the definitive step on creating instances totally empty of FX lol. Well i must say that it will be at least, curious and really funny (for a while)..

    Right now, the game engine is totally exhausted. Sometimes i cant even see my slipstream drive fx in the screen, or my breen engine trails in some instances. Not to mention my shield effects.. they dissapear now more than ever. Its really concerning.

    And honestly, screen lag has nothing to do with this issue. If you have screen lag, just lower the fx quality and thats it, but DONT REMOVE THE GRAPHICS.. its ridiculous. I mean, it will be the first time i see a game engine with such a dumb feature.

    And in my opinion, it has the same importance to be able to see you own weapons, than to see your enemy weapons. Of course we NEED to see our weapons, but you also need to see what is the enemy firing at you. Or you will be wondering so many times, what the hell just hit you, what happened, why your shields are suddenly depleted.. i mean, for the mechanics of the game, both fx must be visible, yours and yours enemy.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Seriously, in a game like STO, why the hell someone will implement such a feature in a game engine?? ... :confused:. Thats the problem. Its ok to sometimes not be able to see my weapons

    To reduce stuttering, to avoid the game crashing because of needing more memory than is available.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • havokreignhavokreign Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I need to know what's going on in my environment at a glance. How can I visually coordinate my fire with a teammate, if I can't see what they're shooting at?

    I know what skills I'm using, and what they do. I know what my loadout is and what I'm attacking. I know my weapons are firing, because I have my 'weapons' cooldown box still on my UI.

    I don't have to see these things to know what the results of 'my' actions are. I can't read the minds of other players, so it helps to 'see' those things.
  • policestate76policestate76 Member Posts: 1,424 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    To reduce stuttering, to avoid the game crashing because of needing more memory than is available.

    And i ask again. Why someone will implement this dumb feature in a game engine, instead of lowering the graphic quality? :cool:

    And this only means they already knew this will happen. So , why not improve the game engine 2 years ago instead of pushing it until it will be too late?? yea yea, money i know. Its better to laugh at players and make money in the meantime xD.

    Its lke saying, this car is really fast, but just to avoid accidents, we are going to limit the speed to 10 kilometers / h. So, then why im going to use a car?? if i will reach my destiny even faster if i just walk??:P
  • havokreignhavokreign Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Good analogy as 'governors' do exist!
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    And i ask again. Why someone will implement this dumb feature in a game engine, instead of lowering the graphic quality? :cool:P

    come on these are same ppl who removed exploration because new player get lost in them because download is to big need i say more???
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    swimwear off risa not fixed
    system Lord Baal is dead
    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The graphics engine is poorly optimized, even at lower settings. What they need to do is revisit all the level design, the nonstop spam (tried going to dyson battle zone again after a long delay. I needn't have bothered. I got spammed by 4 TR's all on top of me half a second apart, from only 2 enemy ships). Try running TBE or any of the recent missions and the spam is tons worse.

    How about instead of removing my weapons, which by the way doesn't help FPS at ALL -- it usually is in the gutter regardless -- why don't they remove the problem that kills the FPS?
  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    sle1989 wrote: »
    Being super hostile like this in any kind of thread will not get a response by the devs. In fact, it guarantees that you won't get a response (Except for maybe a grunt and an eye roll).
    Fine so we don't get a dev commenting in the forum, but we are not even getting acknowledgment that there is a problem at all in any form whatsoever and that is the real issue. We already understand that developers a frightened of the forums but that doesn't explain why such a huge defect gets no mention in known issues lists or any other official bug list.
    I can live with the engine snuffing out effects in crowded areas but it should be doing it the right way with my effects being affected last since my ship is the most visible object on the screen and is supposed to be the "Star of the show" from my perspective.
    If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
    Oh Hell NO to ARC
  • askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I know this bug has been in the game forever, but only since Season 9 start has it really become a problem. You do realize that not being able to see your weapons or other graphical effects (Grav Well etc) is a huge problem right?

    I also know there is already a thread (possibly multiple) in the bug report and the graphics forum, but since no dev could bring himself to even acknowledge the problem, I will just make a new one here :P

    In the unlikely case the devs have no idea what I'm talking about, just do a CCE run and try to find your own beams.

    So you realize there is multiple threads about it, including in the proper forum area so you make one in general discussion..

    You know that's actually considered spamming right?

    /Closed
    Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care.
    Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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