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It was awesome...coming in last in ISE!
virusdancer
Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
Sure, sure...I may be a goofball - and - most folks wouldn't celebrate something like this, but I've got a tear in my eye from being overwhelmed with joy at coming in last in an ISE.
somebody 14940
somebody 9755
somebody 8040
somebody 8467
Mysk 5349
"Dude, VD...you should be embarrassed and hiding with that number!"
I've come in first with that kind of number on Mysk, my lowest parsing guy (a shield stripper...lolwut). So it was awesome to be in a pug where he came in last. That toon should always come in last, not first to third like he usually does.
It's an ego thing...I should come in last, damn it! Muahahahaha...it happened. Yay!
Disclaimer: Yes, S9.5 might have pushed me over the edge. C'est STO.
somebody 14940
somebody 9755
somebody 8040
somebody 8467
Mysk 5349
"Dude, VD...you should be embarrassed and hiding with that number!"
I've come in first with that kind of number on Mysk, my lowest parsing guy (a shield stripper...lolwut). So it was awesome to be in a pug where he came in last. That toon should always come in last, not first to third like he usually does.
It's an ego thing...I should come in last, damn it! Muahahahaha...it happened. Yay!
Disclaimer: Yes, S9.5 might have pushed me over the edge. C'est STO.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
do you even sto
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
These are previous three for that toon. So it might help put the twisted joy in better perspective.
Mysk 5729
somebody 5307
somebody 5096
somebody 3586
somebody 3261
somebody 6525
somebody 4711
Mysk 4701
somebody 4235
somebody 3510
somebody 6426
Mysk 4348
somebody 3396
somebody 2715
somebody 1343
The team had like 2 Scimitars and a couple of escorts. I was the only cruiser and quite slow to get into position in comparison. Everything died before I even got a single shot off.
Can you beat that?
Heh, I know there are folks that can do that out there - but I've never run into them while pugging. It's more common for me to see somebody under 2k than to see somebody over 10k.
Folks shouldn't get me wrong, I don't have a single toon that does over 10k. I'm an advocate of the average DPS thing, somewhere between 5-10k. Makes for a nice 4-7 minute ISE...shorter and I'm bummed...longer and I'm falling asleep.
It was just nifty to come in last on a guy that I believe should always come last.
Rest assured even in STF channels you wouldn't be guaranteed to come in last, so celebrate (and pugs apparently aren't all that bad nowadays)!
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
That last part is the key to it...I guess. The four I've run today so far...
somebody 8122
Willard the Rat 7806
somebody 6524
somebody 4503
somebody 3778
somebody 10170
Rave 7196
somebody 6578
somebody 5920
somebody 4084
somebody 14940
somebody 9755
somebody 8040
somebody 8467
Mysk 5349
somebody 10713
Maal 7547
somebody 6041
somebody 5391
somebody 4308
Only one person below 4k? Three folks at 10k plus? I never see that.
Like I said, though...could just be a time thing. It's not my normal STF running time...but it does look pretty good for pugs compared to what I normally see.
However, I would like to know what the one (I guess it was the 14k-Guy) flew, who made the comment. If its somewhat like a tac on an Avenger or better, he wasnt really much better^^
I'll partially blame it on that I play only science officer. But I get the maxed weapon skills, stick with one energy type and get the appropriate consoles for it, use TT with FAW and/or aux2bat. It doesn't make a lick of sense I should do so little damage. and don't tell me beams don't do damage I see people with beams doing 2-3x more damage than I do all the time.
somebody 8829
somebody 6735
Vegar 6481
somebody 4499
somebody 3953
That last guy was really close to having everybody over 4k. If the first guy had done more than 90%, that last guy would have been over 4k.
Even this one...
somebody 12581
R'ebel 7297
somebody 6324
somebody 3832
somebody 1169
...had the 10k+ guy for the under 2k guy, rather than the under 2k guy with no 10k+ guy. And if not for the under 2k guy, that 3.8k guy would have been over 4k.
This one was a trip...
somebody 8117
Kopor 7517
somebody 6387
somebody 4993
somebody 2872
...as I got hit with one of those fine one moment - dead the next HY3 torps that I never saw on the screen.
[Combat (Self)] Tactical Cube's Plasma Torpedo - Heavy III gives 9432 (77136) to your Shields.
[Combat (Self)] Tactical Cube deals 66824 (197538) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo - Heavy III.
[Combat (Self)] Tactical Cube deals 1729 (2605) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo - Heavy III.
But even there, the fourth guy was just shy of 5k...and...that group was still better than what I'm used to seeing.
Here's another one that would have been awesome...
somebody 12304
somebody 9962
somebody 6181
Nivuh 6039
somebody 1136
...but the 1136 guy was basically afking - 376k damage done, 0 damage taken. Nivuh could have been at the bottom of that one for sure too!
And then the final guy, the 9th guy - for a complete run through my guys...
somebody 10256
Venit 8754
somebody 8213
somebody 5499
somebody 5019
...and everybody above 5k. Yeah, this has to have been the best overall 9-run that I've ever had on my guys.
When I started playing - a good team might have had 1-2 min max left on the optional.
Thant should say a lot about the power creep and/or the nerfing of the Borg.
It's one of the things I think is cool about some of the posts that sarcasmdetector and the DPS crowd have made out on the forums here, over on reddit, and even talked about helping folks out with...and...that's just the difference that positioning/maneuvering can make on DPS.
Think a bunch of folks don't really think about damage falloff and how far they are away from their targets nor about the time that it takes them to move between targets where they're not doing damage.
It's one of those things...try to visualize a typical run. Where are you in relation to your targets? How far out? That's going to affect your damage. Then kind of the overall walkthrough of how the run went...where were you as each part was completed and how long did it take to you get to the next, eh? Simple things like that...like the following:
Initial Patrol (Cube and 2x Spheres)...where were you when then the second Sphere was dropped? How far did you have to go to get over to the Cube? Did you have Evasive available?
Left Side A (Cube, 4 Gens, Transformer)...where were you when the Cube popped? Did you decide to attack one of the Gens furthest away from your position at that point? How long did it take you to get there? Could you have been closer to begin with?
Left Side B (Transformer, Spheres, Nanite Spheres)...where were you when the Gens were popped and even as the Transformer popped? Did you sit and shoot at Spheres or were you shooting at Spheres on the way to the Nanite Spheres? Then when the Spheres/Nanite Spheres were popped...where were you in relation to heading over to the Right Side? Did you have Evasive available to get over there faster?
Right Side the same as the Left Side, eh? Where were you...?
Final Battle (Spheres, Gate, Cube)...how far out were you attacking those Nanites/Spheres? Did you have to make a trip over to the Gate? So when the Gate blew, were you trapped on the other side of that invisible wall and have to travel around to shoot at the Cube?
It's not a strat up there, mind you, it's just a visualization of how it might go...and...just a case of looking at where you were - the positioning and maneuvering aspect of it all. Cause your DPS might be much better if it is a case that you're losing out to the combination of almost always fighting out at 10km and eating the damage falloff - as well as if you're just spending an inordinate amount of time traveling between combat...cause all that 0 DPS gets averaged in with whatever DPS you're doing while actually involved in combat.
If you're using the STO-CombatLogReader by Lea@omgeashoker, when you're looking at it - might want to check out some of the other tabs there. Not just the Overview or Dmg With tabs, but also the Hits Out and Hits With tabs. There you can see the actual Avg Dmg for your attacks, which can point to either gearing or falloff issues and you can see your number of attacks which might point to excessive travel times.
Just working on some of that, can easily get you into that 5-10k range. To go beyond that, heh, you'd need to hit up the DPS crowd for the various pointers that they can offer. Those guys are way out of my league...
As you know a lot of their numbers are artificially boosted by shooting the Gate before a normal group would be engaging the gate. AKA shooting it with the at least some of the Transformers and Gens still active.
I'd be dishonest if I were to deny there's a very large part of me that wants Cryptic to take notice of what's going on there. That my desires/hopes/etc for having most folks at least in the 5-10k range is just to point out just how silly the PvE content has become.
That 15 minute counter for the optional doesn't even start until after the initial patrol is fragged...
...and Cryptic wonders why folks may not queue as often for certain content out there that's requiring more "sit" time or overall time? It's not that the content is harder - it's just got the artificial wait time added to it...so they'd rather run something they can just zip through.
I agree with the timing but I do have a couple of builds that peak around 15k DPS. Quick runs are good when short on time but under 4 minutes makes you feel like you haven't really done anything. I don't bother with anything in the PvE queue that has the potential to take more than 15 minutes just because it gets boring really quick.
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Meh, I don't want to get into some of the things they do...heh. Cause in the end, regardless of what they need to do for their form of the dance to get the numbers they need...you can still look at the average damage they are doing on individual attacks - and that right there, puts them in another league than me and my average/mediocre/but still having fun DPS.
I've still got one of the logs they shared from a 61k ISE...and looking at the average damage:
Disruptor Array 10971
Disruptor Array FAW3 9078
Disruptor Array 8330
Elachi Array 8985
Disruptor Array FAW3 7450
Elachi Array FAW3 7965
Antiproton Array 9009
Antiproton Array FAW3 7451
Romulan Plasma Array 5252
Romulan Plasma Array FAW3 4186
Romulan Plasma Array 3337
Romulan Plasma Array FAW2 5436
Looking at my last guy there and what he did to get 8754:
Fluidic Antiproton Array 1736
Fluidic Antiproton Array FAW3 1762
edit: Note - that's not DPS, that's average damage - it's the actual average damage per volley/shot from the attacks.
It's a drainboat, though...most of what it does isn't going to be written to the combatlog.
Which I've always found kind of annoying, in a sense...there are events that base ranking off damage or healing, but there's a bunch more going on out there that doesn't give any sort of credit.
Have to wonder how much that's played into the DPS thing - with higher DPS meaning you don't even need the healing angle, cause those 20-35k+ folks have obliterated the enemy before they really need to heal anything from the enemy.
So that's where all the focus has ended up...eh?
edit: Here are the builds from those nine runs this morning...
NOTE/DISCLAIMER: These are by no means recommendations. The only recommendation involved would be not to fly them...lol.
Willard the Rat - http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=willardtvaro_5343
Rave - http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=ravekarfi_5343
Mysk - http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=myskvaranus_5343
Maal - http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=maalmogh_5343
Vegar - http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=vegarmarauder_5343
R'ebel - http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=rebelhaak_5343
Kopor - http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=koporguramba_5343
Nivuh - http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=nivuhbrel_5343
Venit - http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=venitqin_5343
I think that's one of the big PvE imbalances- you can get damage so high that you really don't need to worry about healing anymore. The enemy is already dead before he can deal that damage. And that means that DPS is just the way to go. You get the same results, but faster.
Part to blame may be the innate "free" healing you get from various sets and items. The healing ou need at your DPS, you get for free. Take that away, and suddenly people would need to stop DPSing for a moment to run off and heal outside of enemy firing range.
Of course, stuipd one-shot HYT don't really help to convince anyone that healing works - get tractored, HYT, and your ship blows up regardless of healing abilities. Better to kill the enemy before he can catch you with such a spike.
I know I can increase that by slotting Doffs onto my bridge, but I like the current challenge I am facing so I opted not to do so. Also flying around using vendor trash.
At those kinds of dps #'s, you can still complete elites in quick times, and have fun with your build at the same time.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I mean of course your dps is going to have a higher average if you hit 5 targets for the damage of the one target. This is why I have stopped worrying about the dps race. Show me somebody who can do 15K damage to 1 target, each and every shot and I will be impressed. Show me somebody that does 8-9K dps every shot no matter that the run takes 3 mins or 15 mins. Same deal.
Otherwise I'm not impressed. So far I have been impressed ONCE!
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
But uh, are you actually facing that challenge? If everybody in the group - if it was a 2.5-2.8k premade - was running that, then the challenge would be there...otherwise, doesn't it get into the leeching angle?
2,500 * 5 * 900 = 11,250,000...which isn't going to be enough damage to get the optional in 15 minutes.
A 2.8-3k group might be able to hit the 15m optional, but the 2.5k group won't.
And that's kind of where I'm an advocate for average DPS, though I'd bump that 3 up to 4 or so...doing either that 4-9k or 5-10k angle. I'm still dancing between that line there...there's just so much powercreep in the game, it's hard for folks not to show up massively overgeared for the content - fly around half-assed - and still put out those kind of numbers.
Hrmmm, I'm not sure what to make of this post in context of the thread...
You're missing the point. Yes there is some worthless dps inflation, like hitting invulnerable transformers and gates, but shooting at all the probes and spheres at the same time means they usually die faster. The benefits to clear speed far outweigh the wasted dps.
As for movement and getting to the target faster, that increases encounter dps only by minmizing downtime, thus it reflects a real benefit to clear speed. Yes, if you learn to pilot your ship well you will have bigger encdps numbers and faster clear times. (i know i know you're the captain not the helmsman)
Mysk had...
Tactical Cube (100270) 350 attacks
Gateway (100108) 313 attacks
Cube (100103) 81 attacks
Nanite Transformer (100104) 77 attacks
Cube (100096) 59 attacks
Cube (100105) 57 attacks
Nanite Transformer (100106) 55 attacks
Sphere (100254) 49 attacks
Nanite Generator (100110) 49 attacks
Sphere (100192) 46 attacks
Sphere (100247) 44 attacks
Sphere (100090) 40 attacks
Sphere (100097) 33 attacks
Nanite Generator (100101) 32 attacks
Sphere (100255) 30 attacks
Sphere (100098) 27 attacks
Nanite Sphere (100185) 22 attacks
Nanite Generator (100100) 20 attacks
Nanite Generator (100095) 16 attacks
Nanite Sphere (100251) 16 attacks
Nanite Sphere (100248) 11 attacks
Nanite Sphere (100260) 8 attacks
Nanite Sphere (100196) 7 attacks
Nanite Sphere (100191) 5 attacks
Nanite Sphere (100197) 4 attacks
Nanite Generator (100099) 3 attacks
Nanite Sphere (100256) 2 attacks
Sphere (100186) 1 attack
somebody 3411 attacks (#1 DPS)
somebody 2189 attacks (#3 DPS)
Mysk 1465 attacks (#5 DPS)
somebody 1239 attacks (#4 DPS)
somebody 962 attacks (#2 DPS)
It was a 4 minute 31 second run...things weren't gone in the blink of an eye by any means. They weren't 35k+ folks...it wasn't a 1-2 minute run.