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Why Archer was the best captain

annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,630 Arc User
edited July 2014 in Ten Forward
1. didn't get lost (janeway)

2. didn't lose his space station (sisko)

3. didn't lose his ship (Sisko, Kirk x2 Picard x2)
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Post edited by annemarie30 on

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    worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    annemarie30 wrote: »
    1. didn't get lost (janeway)

    2. didn't lose his space station (sisko)

    3. didn't lose his ship (Sisko, Kirk x2 Picard x2)

    1. Wrong. He got lost plenty of times. Including in time.

    2. He never HAD a space station.

    3. Technically true. But did he ever negotiate with sentient rocks? Defeat a Klingon assassin AND almost beat the other? Punch out Q? Defeat a Gorn in single combat? Steal a cloaking device from the Romulans?
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    hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,764 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    the story is more interesting when the loss of your space thingymajiggy whatsit is involved
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    mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    annemarie30 wrote: »
    1. didn't get lost (janeway)

    2. didn't lose his space station (sisko)

    3. didn't lose his ship (Sisko, Kirk x2 Picard x2)

    point 1 and point 3 are linked. azati prime and the aftermath.

    as for 2, as i recall there were very few stations in the entire enterprise series the ones that stood out most was the ESY (enteprise was built and launched from above earth), the repair station with torres voice (the one that repaired enterprise after the romulan mine) and the cardassian station (tellarite kidnaps archer in exchange for his freighter). in any event how does 2 even fit into enterprise anyway?
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
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    steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited July 2014
    I appreciate that people will want to defend their favored captains against all comers, but if you think about it, Archer's ship flew about 100 years before Kirk's Enterprise command, and roughly 175 year before the rest of the captains. So that's like comparing a soldier at the time of the Alamo and the fight for Texas independence to a modern-day soldier. They're both men with possibly comparable characters, but their training, equipment, environment, and circumstances are so vastly different it makes a true comparison at least rather difficult, if not impossible.
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    4. didn't commit treason (Janeway)

    On the other hand, he did commit negligent genocide. So there's that.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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    worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    4. didn't commit treason (Janeway)

    On the other hand, he did commit negligent genocide. So there's that.

    Which one was that? I can't quite remember.

    Also, Shran was the best Captain. Just sayin'. :rolleyes:
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Which one was that? I can't quite remember.
    "Dear Doctor".
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Also, Shran was the best Captain. Just sayin'. :rolleyes:
    Hell, any captain played by Jeffrey Combs is the best captain by default. The guy's just made of win. :D
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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    worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    "Dear Doctor".

    Hell, any captain played by Jeffrey Combs is the best captain by default. The guy's just made of win. :D

    --Good catch.

    --Well, duh! If they ever come out with a Dominion faction for STO, I'm making a Vorta to look like Weyoun and calling him Weyoun 116. Because win.

    And my Ferengi toon is specifically made to look like Brunt. Because Brunt pwns.
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    voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    We're talking about a dude who brings his dog to negotiations with a very sensitive race, then gets mad at them when his dog gets sick after it p*sses on a sacred tree.

    I think that invalidates any and all possibility of him being better than the others.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
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    worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    voporak wrote: »
    We're talking about a dude who brings his dog to negotiations with a very sensitive race, then gets mad at them when his dog gets sick after it p*sses on a sacred tree.

    I think that invalidates any and all possibility of him being better than the others.

    This. This is truth^^^
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    sander233sander233 Member Posts: 3,992 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    worffan101 wrote: »
    1. Wrong. He got lost plenty of times. Including in time.

    2. He never HAD a space station.

    3. Technically true. But did he ever negotiate with sentient rocks? Defeat a Klingon assassin AND almost beat the other? Punch out Q? Defeat a Gorn in single combat? Steal a cloaking device from the Romulans?

    Well, MIRROR Archer did beat a Gorn in single combat, but then later lost his ship and got stabbed to death, so that comes out as a wash.

    And Archer did save Earth from total annihilation (But so did Picard and Data, two or three times...) And he was pivotal in the founding of the Federation.
    16d89073-5444-45ad-9053-45434ac9498f.png~original

    ...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
    - Anne Bredon
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    teluasteluas Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    sander233 wrote: »
    And Archer did save Earth from total annihilation (But so did Picard and Data, two or three times...) And he was pivotal in the founding of the Federation.

    Don't forget, Kirk and Crew did as well, in ST4
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,175 Community Moderator
    edited July 2014
    Archer didn't have much of a rulebook to work off of like the other Captains. Most of the time he was winging it. I think the closest Archer came to losing his ship was when the Ferengi boarded Enterprise to loot her. But he did outwit them.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
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    peregryperegry Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    teluas wrote: »
    Don't forget, Kirk and Crew did as well, in ST4

    And in Star Trek: The Motion(less) Picture...

    They also saved multiple worlds in the most densely populated region of space (TOS: "The Doomsday Machine")...

    There's probably more times. Kirk and his crew saved a lot planets in their time.
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    kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    voporak wrote: »
    We're talking about a dude who brings his dog to negotiations with a very sensitive race, then gets mad at them when his dog gets sick after it p*sses on a sacred tree.

    I think that invalidates any and all possibility of him being better than the others.

    Indeed. I could never take him seriously after that.
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    vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,886 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Which one was that? I can't quite remember.

    Also, Shran was the best Captain. Just sayin'. :rolleyes:

    Shran lost his ship

    at least I'm taking it from her post that she means the were destroyed.

    personally after losing a ship I would never have given picard or kirk another set of keys
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    theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,994 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    sander233 wrote: »
    Well, MIRROR Archer did beat a Gorn in single combat, but then later lost his ship and got stabbed to death, so that comes out as a wash.

    And Archer did save Earth from total annihilation (But so did Picard and Data, two or three times...) And he was pivotal in the founding of the Federation.

    Mirror Archer got poisoned not stabbed by his consort

    Archer stands out because he was the first starfleet captain to make friends with the Xindi primates, arboreals and aquatics and without their help Earth would have been destroyed
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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      daqheghdaqhegh Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
      edited July 2014
      annemarie30 wrote: »
      Words

      I have a better reason: He was reckless and would have made a better first officer than a Captain.

      I have come to the conclusion that he's a homicidal sociopath with multiple personalities (one is a spoiled 6 year old girl, one is a kill-happy ex-army ranger with combat PTSD, and the other sexually frustrated wannabe college jock). It's hard to be more complicated or have more depth than that.

      He might have also been the first captain to NOT be an automatic sex symbol, either in the media OR on the show. I mean, let's face it -- Hoshi Sato got more TRIBBLE than he did. And he NEVER...jumped...her!!

      LOL I love Enterprise, for the record. But I also love poking fun of it.
      My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
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      deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
      edited July 2014
      Well, considering all the unknowns and the TRIBBLE ups he did... (who brings a dog to an alien planet???) he did well... as a captain not so much, but as a diplomat.
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      rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,175 Community Moderator
      edited July 2014
      Archer basically wrote the book on being a frontier Captain, as Enterprise was the first Earth ship to go out and actively explore.
      db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
      Yang Xiao Long wrote:
      I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
      The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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      starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
      edited July 2014
      rattler2 wrote: »
      Archer basically wrote the book on being a frontier Captain, as Enterprise was the first Earth ship to go out and actively explore.

      Yeah, he wrote the book, all right. Everyone read it, and then hopefully did the exact opposite.
      "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
      — Sabaton, "Great War"
      VZ9ASdg.png

      Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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      daqheghdaqhegh Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
      edited July 2014
      starswordc wrote: »
      Yeah, he wrote the book, all right. Everyone read it, and then hopefully did the exact opposite.

      Say that To Captain Kirk...
      My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
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      tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
      edited July 2014
      "Why Archer was the best captain"

      Duh. . .
      Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
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      galadimangaladiman Member Posts: 346 Arc User
      edited July 2014
      tacofangs wrote: »
      "Why Archer was the best captain"

      Duh. . .

      One Internet for YOU, self-deprecating Dev who stole my immediate mental reaction and was willing to go there.

      <respectful bow, followed by a Tip of the Hat.>
      Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
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      daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
      edited July 2014
      this is your the opinion and i dont share it :)
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      macronius wrote: »
      This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
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      felderburgfelderburg Member Posts: 853 Arc User
      edited July 2014
      galadiman wrote: »
      One Internet for YOU, self-deprecating Dev who stole my immediate mental reaction and was willing to go there.

      <respectful bow, followed by a Tip of the Hat.>

      I also thought of this.

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      rtk142rtk142 Member Posts: 613 Arc User
      edited July 2014
      tacofangs wrote: »
      "Why Archer was the best captain"

      Duh. . .

      Do you want ants? BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU GET ANTS!
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