Combine all reputation marks into a single currency?

cptskeeteruk · February 2013

Just an idea like but to avoid the whole "too many currencies" issue again like before, well ok we still will have it imo but, have you thought about combining omega and romulan marks into just "reputation marks" which can be used on any rep system. As i hear it, the rep system will get at least 3 more rep systems in and i can just see the ui for your assets being even more limited where it shows omega and rom marks amounts amongst other things.

Also a unified rep marks system would do away with the whole you must do this for this rep or that rep or the other rep system. Think of it like the whole merits or whatever they were before dilithium. Too many currencies didnt work then, so im figuring too many diff rep marks will not work now.

You already have ppl complaining about lack of romulan marks, if you add more rep systems you will find even more ppl complaining because they are being forced to do yet more content that only rewards certain marks which will mean for the player they cant get marks for one or the other rep systems. Maybe its by design you dont want all rep systems to be done at the same time but is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Btw got flu and just got up so if i didnt make too much sense i apologize.

delsaberedux · February 2013

I prefer the idea of a converter for Reputation and Fleet Marks, either as Reputation/Fleet projects or as DOFF assignments like the CXP converter. We can already convert Reputation Marks into Dilithium, so this feels like a natural step.

Maybe this is better posted as its own Proposal thread, but whatever, I'll just dump it here first.

It doesn't even have to be a 1:1 conversion to be useful. Even if it's 5 Romulan Marks to 1 Omega Mark or vice-versa, that would help me a lot.

For Fleets, the same converter for Rep Marks to Fleet Marks would help everyone, small and large. For solo players, being able to exchange Fleet Marks to Rep Marks would be a nice bonus for folks who are never going to use those Fleet Marks anyway. If a cynical appeal to the "bottom line" is needed: more Marks opening up Reputation store options, more chances for Dilithium spending, more potential for Zen purchases for currency trading.

Sooner or later, players pushing hard into Reputations or even Fleets will find themselves with leftover resources just sitting there in their Assets tab doing nothing. Being able to convert Marks puts those resources to good use, and in the long run, might keep people from vacating zones like New Romulus and Defera once they got all the toys they want from those two Rep stores.

If there needs to be some kind of in-universe explanation... I dunno, maybe the New Romulus people have been talking to the Omega people and they all really like how helpful you've been, spreading cheer throughout the universe. We're all in this together, if you've read the Book of G'Kar lately.

stirling191 · February 2013

Considering one of the original stated purposes of dilithium was to get rid of ten different types of currencies, there shouldn't even be different kinds of marks.

Convert all mark costs to reasonable dilithium equivalents. Remove daily refinement cap. Problem solved, players can now play what they like and make progress where they like without being pigeonholed.

zerobang · February 2013

the problem is, they want to introduce more reputation systems over time, and they want us to "play" (grind) through it every time.

if we can use the Romulan marks that we got from months of Eppoh Tagging when the next one comes... then we will have no reason to play the new content.

condensing all the marks WILL happen ... one day ...but only AFTER they are done with producing more Reputation Systems and after the Inventory Currencies tab has a list as long as the old one.

So... give it a year or two, maybe 3.

...or they might scrap the whole currency approach again and revamp all of the economy.

Cryptic loves remaking working systems, just for the heck of it, so even if people would love it and it would work perfect they would revamp it at some point anyway.

Of course in the conversion you will loose 75% of your purchasing power as well and they wouldn't tell you or let the cat out of the bag until 2 days before the patch. You know, like the last 2 times.

Thats just how they roll.

naevius · February 2013

If I put on my business hat and look at this from Cryptic's point of view, I would never ever combine the marks. It defeats the entire purpose of them, since people would find the easiest ones to earn and just convert.

And the old currencies were not revamped just because there were too many of them, but because they were pointless from the point of view of the new revenue model.

Likewise, the refining cap won't be raised (at least not significantly.)

molaigh · February 2013

No. It's reputation. The Romulans don't care that you've helped Omega. I'd rather see a more in depth system (something akin to the old elder scrolls rep system) wherein working for on faction has consequences (positive or negative) with the other factions. This would require a much more robust system with multiple factions, however.

kyias1 · February 2013

First, I would like to reference a previous thread that asked this same question:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=556101

I only link it because I felt there were some good factual posts both for and against unified marks in this thread. After reading through them again I can see why people would not want unified marks and I can agree with their position.

If there was endgame content provided with the faction reputation system to support these new currency types that would be fine. As it stands however only Borg related content has available STF's for significant mark gains and fleet marks are on the complete opposite of that spectrum.

If we are going to get content to effectively obtain marks that is great. If things will remain status quo then unified marks really wouldn't be such a bad idea.

snoggymack22 · February 2013

Combine them all into ...

Quatloos

cptvanor · February 2013

cptskeeteruk wrote: »

if you add more rep systems you will find even more ppl complaining because they are being forced to do yet more content that only rewards certain marks

First off, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Second, earning marks that can be used for any of the reps makes no sense lore/IC wise. Helping out New Rom should not make me better liked by Omega.

The Rep system, like the SB system is intended to take a long time to grind your way though. It's not something that they want people finishing in 2-3 weeks.

Maybe its by design you dont want all rep systems to be done at the same time but is that a good thing or a bad thing?

They want people to do the stuff they produce for that given rep. Allowing people to keep grinding elite STF's to reach T5 for Faction X defeats the whole point of the system.

dunnlang · February 2013

Sadly they can't be combined. If they were, then there would be two key attributes for determining which missions players choose in order to earn marks: Fun and Efficiency.

Since most missions fail the "Fun" standard, then players would just play the most Efficient missions over and over again. Queues for STFs or other difficult content may sit empty forever.

The separate Mark system is a way of directing player attention that removes fun, and efficiency to an extent, from the equation.

reptilesbladex · February 2013

stirling191 wrote: »

Considering one of the original stated purposes of dilithium was to get rid of ten different types of currencies, there shouldn't even be different kinds of marks.

Convert all mark costs to reasonable dilithium equivalents. Remove daily refinement cap. Problem solved, players can now play what they like and make progress where they like without being pigeonholed.

I distinctly remember this as well. We now have almost as many currencies again as the move to Dillithium was supposed to remove!

dastahl · February 2013

reptilesbladex wrote: »

I distinctly remember this as well. We now have almost as many currencies again as the move to Dillithium was supposed to remove!

While this comment can be appreciated for pointing out that Dilithium was intended to cut down on currencies, we do not view Fleet Marks in this way.

One of our primary goals in reducing currencies was in reducing the types of currencies needed to purchase gear - so that gear could have standardized pricing no matter where it comes from.

Marks could have been a progress bar, but we felt it was more interesting if instead of a progress bar generically ticking up, it was points that you could spend where you see fit.

It doesn't refute the initial complaint about currencies, but it does illustrate that Marks are designed to represent effort against specific obstacles. It is part of a reputation system design that you earn reputation with a faction by doing things they like to do. That reputation is quite often literally just a number. Games find different ways to display this number. Sometimes it is a heart. Sometimes it is a progress bar. In STO it is a value that you assign.

We aren't above changing it or altering the design to be more asthetically pleasing, but the point of reputation system is to gain rep by doing things a faction wants you to do - which in most cases is a story or fictional based type of gameplay meant to represent your skill versus specific challenges.

If we were to make Marks universal, then we wouldn't have a reputation system and instead more like another form of skillpoints (which isn't a bad idea either).

However, STO is a story based game and so we will continue to use Reputation to represent a player's skill against specific challenges. This will become the basis of new and interesting challenges in Seasons to come and is part of our overall end game design.

centersolace · February 2013

dastahl wrote: »

While this comment can be appreciated for pointing out that Dilithium was intended to cut down on currencies, we do not view Fleet Marks in this way.

One of our primary goals in reducing currencies was in reducing the types of currencies needed to purchase gear - so that gear could have standardized pricing no matter where it comes from.

Marks could have been a progress bar, but we felt it was more interesting if instead of a progress bar generically ticking up, it was points that you could spend where you see fit.

It doesn't refute the initial complaint about currencies, but it does illustrate that Marks are designed to represent effort against specific obstacles. It is part of a reputation system design that you earn reputation with a faction by doing things they like to do. That reputation is quite often literally just a number. Games find different ways to display this number. Sometimes it is a heart. Sometimes it is a progress bar. In STO it is a value that you assign.

We aren't above changing it or altering the design to be more asthetically pleasing, but the point of reputation system is to gain rep by doing things a faction wants you to do - which in most cases is a story or fictional based type of gameplay meant to represent your skill versus specific challenges.

If we were to make Marks universal, then we wouldn't have a reputation system and instead more like another form of skillpoints (which isn't a bad idea either).

However, STO is a story based game and so we will continue to use Reputation to represent a player's skill against specific challenges. This will become the basis of new and interesting challenges in Seasons to come and is part of our overall end game design.

I would agree with you, but seeing as Marks are used to purchase gear, this description kind of falls apart. :P

But... seeing as there isn't much point to marks outside of dilithium once you reach T5 reputation I can see the point to using them as currency. So I think it would go over better if only the endgame sets used marks and the Mk X-XI gear did not.

jkstocbr · February 2013

I don't agree, and it makes perfect sense to have different Reputation Marks. Combining them would defeat the whole Rep system purpose. I could just grind the Romulan marks all day and pick-up all the Omega/Borg gear. I only work on the Rep system for the Passive Skills anyway.

vegeta50024 · February 2013

centersolace wrote: »

I would agree with you, but seeing as Marks are used to purchase gear, this description kind of falls apart. :P

But... seeing as there isn't much point to marks outside of dilithium once you reach T5 reputation I can see the point to using them as currency. So I think it would go over better if only the endgame sets used marks and the Mk X-XI gear did not.

Technically, the only marks that we actually use to buy stuff are the marks used to unlock stuff in the omega and romulan reputations, respectively.

Fleet marks on the other hand are converted from marks to credits, which we do use to buy gear.

leviathan99 · February 2013

vegeta50024 wrote: »

Technically, the only marks that we actually use to buy stuff are the marks used to unlock stuff in the omega and romulan reputations, respectively.

Fleet marks on the other hand are converted from marks to credits, which we do use to buy gear.

I will say that my preference there would be to eliminate the marks from those activities and have a two fold system.

1) Timed projects, which directly award rep but take 19+ hours.

2) Repeatable activities. (And I'd favor bringing New Romulus activities around to being endlessly repeatable but provide fewer rewards after the first time you do them each day.)

Say you currently get 5000 Romulan rep a week for 200 marks and 2 hours spent doing Romulan activities and 300k EC in commodities. (Just a guess.)

So why not just cut the marks from the projects, cut their rep rewards by 50% and make the first two hours worth of activities on NR award 300 rep per 15 minute mission and then award 5 rep a piece after you've earned 2500 in rep from missions for the week?

I'm a bigger fan of direct rep, I guess.

From there, I'd probably make the only pre-req for rep projects be getting the reputation needed and spending the dilithium/EC/commodities but maybe have some sort of "free rep item token" drop in STFs or New Romulus as appropriate to keep people going back.

It's funny to me though how people refer to NR as a grind when there's no real incentive to farm it. You do your dailies but there's no point after that.

diogene0 · February 2013

As long as it doesn't take inventory space (like the borg neural processors do), it's fine. But i really don't like having to keep all these collectible items because inventory space is expensive and very limited, even for lifers.

I don't mind having 10-15 different currencies as long as it makes sense and goes into the assets tab.

nicha0 · February 2013

I believe the design idea here is good, you should earn credit with specific factions for doing that faction content. The problem is that dilithium isn't used to purchase gear so much as more marks are. Take a look at the ground gear, and if you want to outfit your Boffs with ground gear the amount of mark grinding is just.. beyond reason, 1500 marks is a lot of work per Boff, 27k dil is reasonable for ground gear/set but the marks take a very long time.

boglejam73 · February 2013

diogene0 wrote: »

As long as it doesn't take inventory space (like the borg neural processors do), it's fine. But i really don't like having to keep all these collectible items because inventory space is expensive and very limited, even for lifers.

I don't mind having 10-15 different currencies as long as it makes sense and goes into the assets tab.

I agree with you.

And it worries me.

cptvanor · February 2013

Also as I remember it, the old mark system was really complex because you used different marks to by the same type of equipment from the same vendor.

If I wanted a Mk VII phaser that was one kind of mark, if I wanted a Mk X torpedo that was a different kind.

The rep system is a good deal clearer. If I want to do stuff for Romulans I use Romulan marks, Omega gets Omega marks, and so on.

buzzout · February 2013

zerobang wrote: »

if we can use the Romulan marks that we got from months of Eppoh Tagging when the next one comes... then we will have no reason to play the new content.

There is one surefire method to get gamers to play new content. It's not a method Cryptic tries very often, but it has always worked with other games.

Make the new content fun to play!

I know this kind of thinking is radical, subversive and even dangerous, but I think it's worth a try.

thlaylierah · February 2013

I demand that all currencies be reduced to Quatloos! :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjeyWNolnXA

diogene0 · February 2013

buzzout wrote: »

There is one surefire method to get gamers to play new content. It's not a method Cryptic tries very often, but it has always worked with other games.

Make the new content fun to play!

I know this kind of thinking is radical, subversive and even dangerous, but I think it's worth a try.

People will always play the most profitable content at some point, just to get their stuff. If there's only one type of marks many nerfs will be required, including on STF rewards. And gods know it will bring a lot of rants on the forums. Cryptic doesn't need to open this Pandora's box again.

Really, new content was cool in season 7. And the current design choice has also a lot of advantages, they can balance finely the rewards and be generous in specific cases (STFs, fleet missions, eppohs). I don't want to see a massive nerf across the board just to appease a group of people who don't like having 7 lines instead of 1 in their asset tab. :P

altai8008 · February 2013

kinda defeats the point of the whole thing. i dont think omega care that ive been woking as a pest controller on new romulus. and nor should they.

boglejam73 · February 2013

altai8008 wrote: »

kinda defeats the point of the whole thing. i dont think omega care that ive been woking as a pest controller on new romulus. and nor should they.

I dunno. Borg are kinda like cockroaches. Impervious to everything and you never manage to kill them all no matter how many times you try. Seems very similar to pest control work to me.

millimidget · February 2013

I just want to see account wide reputation, where the reputation bars are shared account wide, with reputation gains being shared account wide, while projects for gear/consumables remain per character.

musealot · June 2014

Two points. One, I disagree that players only play to get gear (even past level 50) as was implied in an earlier post. I think that if the game designers think they have to "buy" us with goodies that they are looking at the game the wrong way. New and interesting content will always generate more gameplay. I'm sure when they added the Romulan faction they saw many accounts open up again as players came back to see what it was like. Content and improved gameplay is what draws people to a game, not more elaborate ways to get artificially rare goodies.
Two, I find the reputation system so cryptic (pardon the pun) that I can't figure out how to use it. If it takes detailed instruction as how to access a feature it will go unused by the casual player, and they will NOT be tempted by gear acquired in such a way. I have a lot of marks that I am unable to spend simply because there is no straightforward method of doing so. Call me an idiot if you wish, but I suspect there are many like me out there who are in STO to play, and not have a second job.

daan2006 · June 2014

if we talking One Mark to Rule Them all im all FOR THAT

sunfrancks · June 2014

This is a necro thread, kill it with fire....or a shotgun....

daan2006 · June 2014

sunfrancks wrote: »

This is a necro thread, kill it with fire....or a shotgun....

really wish theyd get a auto lock after 30 days because when i replied to it i was going on title alone didnt look at any dates

snoggymack22 · June 2014

daan2006 wrote: »

really wish theyd get a auto lock after 30 days because when i replied to it i was going on title alone didnt look at any dates

I wish they'd go the other way and get rid of the policy about necro threads. It's just discussion. It's just the internet. There's not really a compelling reason to be so against old ideas still being shared 31 days later.

Combine all reputation marks into a single currency?

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