pvp is sto at it its true potential, or its a glimpse of it least. pve, as in the combat interaction with npcs, is the game engine with all the assets and all the balance and all the complexity of a player ship diluted down around to single digits of the game's potential.
the story of sto is great, the maps of sto are great, the missions that flesh out the story have good dialog and effects at the very least, the player ship vs ship iteration is unparalleled anywhere that i've experienced and has the potential to be so much better if an actual pro was at the helm balancing things, but the npcs are a cruel joke. its like the level 1 tutorial mission never ended, and there is no other difficulty then very easy, or very easy with a hitpoint and damage multiplier TRIBBLE turned up to 3 and 7 wile not actually making them harder or more complex, just take longer to kill.
i don't know how this game holds the interest of non pvpers, i honestly don't. the definition of a gamer must be nothing like it was back 15 years ago, were we lived for the challenge, and the game was cruel and unforgiving. it starting to make sense why so many pvpers are older. now a gamer is someone who plays farmvil and angry birds or whatever shovel ware is popular at the moment... and sto pve.
pvp is sto at it its true potential, or its a glimpse of it least. pve, as in the combat interaction with npcs, is the game engine with all the assets and all the balance and all the complexity of a player ship diluted down around to single digits of the game's potential.
the story of sto is great, the maps of sto are great, the missions that flesh out the story have good dialog and effects at the very least, the player ship vs ship iteration is unparalleled anywhere that i've experienced and has the potential to be so much better if an actual pro was at the helm balancing things, but the npcs are a cruel joke. its like the level 1 tutorial mission never ended, and there is no other difficulty then very easy, or very easy with a hitpoint and damage multiplier TRIBBLE turned up to 3 and 7 wile not actually making them harder or more complex, just take longer to kill.
i don't know how this game holds the interest of non pvpers, i honestly don't. the definition of a gamer must be nothing like it was back 15 years ago, were we lived for the challenge, and the game was cruel and unforgiving. it starting to make sense why so many pvpers are older. now a gamer is someone who plays farmvil and angry birds or whatever shovel ware is popular at the moment... and sto pve.
Pretty much this. Can't understand how PvE is fun. I only restrain myself to missions (honestly FE are so well made that I gladly replay them, and VOs!). PvP is hell fun, combinations are endless, you can do whatever you want with your ship, and the F2P model doesn't stop you, actually makes it easier.
The day they will make PvP capable of giving unique rewards with great incentives...
I wish they make a PvP reputation. I opened a thread some time ago, and was astonished of the amount of mindless, stupid and nonsense replies I got. Idiotic people who wouldn't do 2+2 and connect the brain before talking. Just be leaved in their PvE lame environment.
It ultimately ended with askray launching ultimatums to those who were flaming, also known as... everyone in there.
STO PvP means nothing to me right now. It's merely a distraction until better things come along and I upgrade my PC.
After all, if PvP in this game means nothing to the Developers who run it, we'd be fools to care about it.
There was a time when PvP was endgame for me, and gave me a reason to play through the boring and repetitive PvE content that offers no challenge.
But after learning a little more about MMOs and RNG and all the "fun" BS that these guys put in their games I've come to the realization that there is little resembling skill here and more to do with gear, procs, passives, exploiting whatever is bugged, broken, or OP at the moment.
The prevalence of the beam faw romulan captained Scimitar with elite pets, valdore console etc. is gamebreaking to me and has ruined pvp. Same goes for Aux2bat.
Cryptics answer seems to pile more TRIBBLE onto TRIBBLE to onto TRIBBLE.
Do you know how much RNG took place during that fight?
To-hit rolls?
To-crit rolls?
Damage variance rolls?
Weapon Proc rolls?
Any gearing/set rolls? Both offensive and defensive?
What about DOFFs and their rolls?
Any Trait rolls?
It's not just player skill vs. player skill. It's not just character gearing vs. character gearing.
We're but conduits for the RNG...
edit: Yes, a good player can try to minimize their reliance on it to perform at a certain level - doesn't mean they won't perform better than that at times because of the RNG and they don't have any control over their target's RNG.
Do you know how much RNG took place during that fight?
To-hit rolls?
To-crit rolls?
Damage variance rolls?
Weapon Proc rolls?
Any gearing/set rolls? Both offensive and defensive?
What about DOFFs and their rolls?
Any Trait rolls?
It's not just player skill vs. player skill. It's not just character gearing vs. character gearing.
We're but conduits for the RNG...
im trying to figure out why 3/4 of elatchi DHC shots fired from certain bugs proc and bypass my shields, over and over and over and over again. there is no confronting such a thing, they auto win. its RNG: the game at that point
The prevalence of the beam faw romulan captained Scimitar with elite pets, valdore console etc. is gamebreaking to me and has ruined pvp. Same goes for Aux2bat.
Cryptics answer seems to pile more TRIBBLE onto TRIBBLE to onto TRIBBLE.
I totally disagree. Are thing broken in this game? Hell yes. But it's more of the amount of spam and the fact that you can pile things up and take advantage of the cumulative effect of powers with no diminishing returns.
I'm glad that cruisers have been given a way to be effective and useful and not every team and to have 2 bug ships and 3 scis.
However, when the system can't render everything on the map, when powers cause people to de synch, when you get stuck on top of the map and can't move (without going on about the cumulative effect with no diminishing returns) and to top it all off the devs treat us like second class citizens; then there is a problem.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
im trying to figure out why 3/4 of elatchi DHC shots fired from certain bugs proc and bypass my shields, over and over and over and over again. there is no confronting such a thing, they auto win. its RNG: the game at that point
known bug, produces 100% proc rate on weapon procs (if not 100% its something close enough)
It is because you're not putting yourself in the shoes of a casual player. The ones that log on for an hour maybe 5 times or less per month. You're also not putting yourself in the shoes of those that don't give a rat's TRIBBLE about the dps race and they will bring whatever toys they want, even if it doesn't do much. And I've done the same, I've given up trying to design ships that are over 10k dps. It's just doesn't make sense to do so considering the difficulty of this game and I've never been happier after sticking with that mindset. It is fine because my grind methods are not conventional so I don't care about optimizing my time and what not. I have a research science vessel retrofit equipped with silly toys which I bring in the public queues. And I have fun with it, if you can believe that. I don't care anymore about trying to win anything, I just go in, play with new people I just met... I will even pug difficult ground maps, stick around if I feel the group is capable sometimes even strike up a conversation about irrelevant topics. I don't even care if it takes an hour to accomplish the mission. For some reason, there is something endearing this way, bonus if the people on my team are not *******s. So yeah, the point is there are ways pve can still be appealing to a pvper. Don't get me wrong, I know pve queues are silly but only if you bring overpowered boats the likes of scimitars or tactical a2b into the equation. Ultimately, this is a psychological thing, very subjective and it's up to you to choose how you play and enjoy this game. But if you still can't understand this point of view, I understand.
anything i play, is going to be played a lot more then 5 hours a month, or i wont play it at all. playing something that little make no sense, these are the type of people that are somehow considered gamers these days, this is why their is so much shovel ware, flash, and java games. but building something like an MMO for these people, they wouldn't play the game enough to ever be tempted to spend a dime.
anyway im not talking about someone like you, im talking about someone who plays as much as me, or more, is competitive, and only does pve, and subsequently always has more chip then shoulder about how much he hates pvp and would blame every single problem on it if he could. how can this person exist, and how can he be the vast majority. it cant just be that he has no frame of reference to just how complex the system is, and how underutilized it is in the form of npcs, no its just not fun if you know that or not.
There's a big difference between wanting to avoid whichever team plays the Omega Comp the best is always the dominant team and the ludicrous amount of RNG we have in the game.
I can't help but picture a sports analogy.
Imagine you were watching the Super Bowl. Before each play, the refs rolled dice to see how many players could be on the field for each team. With each completed play, they rolled dice to see if the ball should be moved further forward or perhaps moved back. With each scoring play, they rolled to see how many points were actually scored. Etc, etc, etc...
Player A/Team A should defeat Player B/Team B...because they did something better - whether they were more skilled, paid more attention, were better geared or not...that they actually did something.
Not just because some dice were rolled...
Why even bother to PvP then? Just sum up some bonuses for each side - let them roll dice - and there's your winner!
As an average player, I expect to lose far more often than I win. Doesn't mean that I don't expect mainly to lose to better players rather than just to some RNG.
The number of times I've popped somebody and it surprised me more than them. The number of times I've survived being popped and it surprised me more than them.
It bugs me...
Yeah, dookie can happen - somebody can be in the wrong place at the wrong time - Act of God - whatever somebody wants to call it...but the sheer magnitude of it in STO is somewhat sickening. It doesn't give any satisfaction. It's only gotten worse.
Heck, it's one of the reasons that I prefer to fly around as a goofball...enjoying the pretty explosions even if it's me - cause otherwise, I mean - I could just write a program that would randomly generate outcomes of things...but I wouldn't be very good at making all the pretty explosions.
Can't say PvP in STO is important to me. But it's nice to be able to play a game with the Star Trek IP. I simply accomplished everything I set out to accomplish relating to PvE (being OP, tons of money, several toons, etc.). PvP provides a challenging environment which still allows me to grow, simple as that.
I quit STO a month or two back, it is completely unimportant to me in general. Until they fix pvp, and game balance in general ( laugh with me here ) I'll remain out of game. On another note, I still don't see this game lasting much longer in terms of population, I think it will be a pre-F2P ghost town style STO sooner than later.
This commonly happens with PWE games, where they've gouged their player base into oblivion and completely ignored the underlining problems with the game, and the implementations of future patches. They abandon any real advancement for their games, and move onto their next cash cow.
well, hm, interesting that different people complain about diferent things.
be it FAW, A2B, romulans, lobi, scimis, valdore, beams, cannons, torpedos...
You name it-there is a thread of someone complaining about it lol.
I enjoy PvP and Star Trek so I play it.
If i want some gear from reputations I do PvE as well.
But i don't understand when someone doesn't want to play ISE for 2 minutes to get borg engines for example) and then spends 20 minutes complaining lol.
Anyway, most ppl i see on forum talk like they don't like the game, most ppl I see in actual PvP seem to like it.
Be it good hits, good damage, good recoveries, great setups etc.
Latest example of very fun game we had few days ago in a recap with bit of cinematic feel:
Just to show completely different perspective then usual rage.
And yeah, i see only maybe 10% ppl that use FAW in PvP. And from those 10% i see and know only 1% of those that use really dangerous beam setups, others are full spacebar, dual a2b mashers.
Same reason exploration is important to me; because I can do it over and over, and it'll be different every time.
I don't much care about challenge, or tests of skill; my PvP skills kinda peaked years ago, and I can't be bothered keeping up with the latest gimmicks and builds. I'm in it purely for the variety. If I get tired of PvP then I'm already tired of the game in general and it's time for a break (I'm pretty much on one now I guess; I'm hardly logging in at all lately).
There's absolutely no way I'm gonna spend all my gaming time running the same STFs or fleet actions over and over.
this is the tier of player that doesn't use station powers, button pushing on the ui is asking a lot. as long as there are like 2 pros, 3 players this bad wouldn't even lose you an optional
Comments
the story of sto is great, the maps of sto are great, the missions that flesh out the story have good dialog and effects at the very least, the player ship vs ship iteration is unparalleled anywhere that i've experienced and has the potential to be so much better if an actual pro was at the helm balancing things, but the npcs are a cruel joke. its like the level 1 tutorial mission never ended, and there is no other difficulty then very easy, or very easy with a hitpoint and damage multiplier TRIBBLE turned up to 3 and 7 wile not actually making them harder or more complex, just take longer to kill.
i don't know how this game holds the interest of non pvpers, i honestly don't. the definition of a gamer must be nothing like it was back 15 years ago, were we lived for the challenge, and the game was cruel and unforgiving. it starting to make sense why so many pvpers are older. now a gamer is someone who plays farmvil and angry birds or whatever shovel ware is popular at the moment... and sto pve.
Pretty much this. Can't understand how PvE is fun. I only restrain myself to missions (honestly FE are so well made that I gladly replay them, and VOs!). PvP is hell fun, combinations are endless, you can do whatever you want with your ship, and the F2P model doesn't stop you, actually makes it easier.
The day they will make PvP capable of giving unique rewards with great incentives...
I wish they make a PvP reputation. I opened a thread some time ago, and was astonished of the amount of mindless, stupid and nonsense replies I got. Idiotic people who wouldn't do 2+2 and connect the brain before talking. Just be leaved in their PvE lame environment.
It ultimately ended with askray launching ultimatums to those who were flaming, also known as... everyone in there.
After all, if PvP in this game means nothing to the Developers who run it, we'd be fools to care about it.
There was a time when PvP was endgame for me, and gave me a reason to play through the boring and repetitive PvE content that offers no challenge.
But after learning a little more about MMOs and RNG and all the "fun" BS that these guys put in their games I've come to the realization that there is little resembling skill here and more to do with gear, procs, passives, exploiting whatever is bugged, broken, or OP at the moment.
The prevalence of the beam faw romulan captained Scimitar with elite pets, valdore console etc. is gamebreaking to me and has ruined pvp. Same goes for Aux2bat.
Cryptics answer seems to pile more TRIBBLE onto TRIBBLE to onto TRIBBLE.
Do you know how much RNG took place during that fight?
To-hit rolls?
To-crit rolls?
Damage variance rolls?
Weapon Proc rolls?
Any gearing/set rolls? Both offensive and defensive?
What about DOFFs and their rolls?
Any Trait rolls?
It's not just player skill vs. player skill. It's not just character gearing vs. character gearing.
We're but conduits for the RNG...
edit: Yes, a good player can try to minimize their reliance on it to perform at a certain level - doesn't mean they won't perform better than that at times because of the RNG and they don't have any control over their target's RNG.
im trying to figure out why 3/4 of elatchi DHC shots fired from certain bugs proc and bypass my shields, over and over and over and over again. there is no confronting such a thing, they auto win. its RNG: the game at that point
I totally disagree. Are thing broken in this game? Hell yes. But it's more of the amount of spam and the fact that you can pile things up and take advantage of the cumulative effect of powers with no diminishing returns.
I'm glad that cruisers have been given a way to be effective and useful and not every team and to have 2 bug ships and 3 scis.
However, when the system can't render everything on the map, when powers cause people to de synch, when you get stuck on top of the map and can't move (without going on about the cumulative effect with no diminishing returns) and to top it all off the devs treat us like second class citizens; then there is a problem.
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
known bug, produces 100% proc rate on weapon procs (if not 100% its something close enough)
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
anything i play, is going to be played a lot more then 5 hours a month, or i wont play it at all. playing something that little make no sense, these are the type of people that are somehow considered gamers these days, this is why their is so much shovel ware, flash, and java games. but building something like an MMO for these people, they wouldn't play the game enough to ever be tempted to spend a dime.
anyway im not talking about someone like you, im talking about someone who plays as much as me, or more, is competitive, and only does pve, and subsequently always has more chip then shoulder about how much he hates pvp and would blame every single problem on it if he could. how can this person exist, and how can he be the vast majority. it cant just be that he has no frame of reference to just how complex the system is, and how underutilized it is in the form of npcs, no its just not fun if you know that or not.
I can't help but picture a sports analogy.
Imagine you were watching the Super Bowl. Before each play, the refs rolled dice to see how many players could be on the field for each team. With each completed play, they rolled dice to see if the ball should be moved further forward or perhaps moved back. With each scoring play, they rolled to see how many points were actually scored. Etc, etc, etc...
Player A/Team A should defeat Player B/Team B...because they did something better - whether they were more skilled, paid more attention, were better geared or not...that they actually did something.
Not just because some dice were rolled...
Why even bother to PvP then? Just sum up some bonuses for each side - let them roll dice - and there's your winner!
As an average player, I expect to lose far more often than I win. Doesn't mean that I don't expect mainly to lose to better players rather than just to some RNG.
The number of times I've popped somebody and it surprised me more than them. The number of times I've survived being popped and it surprised me more than them.
It bugs me...
Yeah, dookie can happen - somebody can be in the wrong place at the wrong time - Act of God - whatever somebody wants to call it...but the sheer magnitude of it in STO is somewhat sickening. It doesn't give any satisfaction. It's only gotten worse.
Heck, it's one of the reasons that I prefer to fly around as a goofball...enjoying the pretty explosions even if it's me - cause otherwise, I mean - I could just write a program that would randomly generate outcomes of things...but I wouldn't be very good at making all the pretty explosions.
Are they casual about how they wash their feet? :eek:
Without PvP I wouldn't log in daily.
This commonly happens with PWE games, where they've gouged their player base into oblivion and completely ignored the underlining problems with the game, and the implementations of future patches. They abandon any real advancement for their games, and move onto their next cash cow.
STO is nearing the end of its lifespan.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
be it FAW, A2B, romulans, lobi, scimis, valdore, beams, cannons, torpedos...
You name it-there is a thread of someone complaining about it lol.
I enjoy PvP and Star Trek so I play it.
If i want some gear from reputations I do PvE as well.
But i don't understand when someone doesn't want to play ISE for 2 minutes to get borg engines for example) and then spends 20 minutes complaining lol.
Anyway, most ppl i see on forum talk like they don't like the game, most ppl I see in actual PvP seem to like it.
Be it good hits, good damage, good recoveries, great setups etc.
Latest example of very fun game we had few days ago in a recap with bit of cinematic feel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD1sW-ff42I
Just to show completely different perspective then usual rage.
And yeah, i see only maybe 10% ppl that use FAW in PvP. And from those 10% i see and know only 1% of those that use really dangerous beam setups, others are full spacebar, dual a2b mashers.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
I don't much care about challenge, or tests of skill; my PvP skills kinda peaked years ago, and I can't be bothered keeping up with the latest gimmicks and builds. I'm in it purely for the variety. If I get tired of PvP then I'm already tired of the game in general and it's time for a break (I'm pretty much on one now I guess; I'm hardly logging in at all lately).
There's absolutely no way I'm gonna spend all my gaming time running the same STFs or fleet actions over and over.
gotcha//10
And because of that...PvP ended up where it did.
zomg. That's awkward.
this is the tier of player that doesn't use station powers, button pushing on the ui is asking a lot. as long as there are like 2 pros, 3 players this bad wouldn't even lose you an optional