Well, not everyone uses the exchange to make a profit all the time. I actually use it for temporary storage so I generally put a pretty high price on items so people will not buy them and they do not take up space in my inventory. For example, my KDF toon has 195 Doff and only 5 free slots. I am waiting for a discount for another 100 Doff slots, but I will likely buy it at the beginning of June regardless. Since I have very few slots I have bought a few refugees and marked them up on the exchange thinking that no one would touch them.... I was wrong.
One day I got a message stating that one of my refugees was sold. Since I was less than a minute away from an Exchange console I immediately went to check on prices. There were a few of the exact same refugee for much lower prices (1/10th of my "price") so I assume it was an accidental purchase. I bought one of them to replace the refugee that I assume was accidentally purchased.
In a separate incident, I purchased a Mirror Battlecruiser at a pretty inexpensive price and since I have no more available ship slots I kept it on the Exchange at a high price, much higher than the most expensive one. Several days later it was sold. I was like, "What?" I went to the exchange and battlecruisers were listed at far higher prices. No wonder my battlecruiser was bought. Now I need to wait for another one at a reasonable price. By then I will have likely bought more ship slots so I will not need to store it on the Exchange.
Something doesn't fit with this, meaning you cannot list more than 40 items on the exchange, and also you must not be listing items you wish to keep very high as you say, because if you did no1 would actually buy them.
You got it all wrong. I dont need anything. I got every shiny, ship or other stuff i want in the game.
My point was with this whole exchange speculation. I see ppl thinking how good and right is it, when its not, it should be frowned upon.
Even in a free market economy, I dont know if in US, but in UE and most other countries there are certain laws, guvern comissions, etc. that inforce a "good business intent" policy (not sure if this is the right translation, since english is not my native language). It prevends a seller for overpricing, or at least to justify that overpricing. Its the same laws that got Bill Gates in the monopoly law suit with EU a few years back.
Point is, even in a free market, you cannot raise a price too much or without been entitled to do that by various factors.
The term you are looking for is price fixing, and/or price gouging, for which both are illegal in the US, however there is very little regulation on how far someone can actually mark up an item, before it becomes classified as price gouging.
People that think removing or changing exchange mechanics, would somehow make things easier to obtain for them are silly.
We market workers perform a valuable service for CRYPTIC.
Yes it means if I do my job well I get to play for free.... and crazy I enjoy playing a fake market where I can't really loose any actual money. lol
If they used ANY mechanic at all to remove price marking of items it wouldn't make life grand for those that don't want to earn EC to buy what they want. It would simply force Cryptic to CHARGE actual $ for more things.
Right now its a tidy little circle.
$ -> Zen ... with Zen you can Purchase stuff, or Convert to D and Purchase Stuff.... OR sell Purchased Zen stuff for EC (as in keys ect). The ONLY reason to convert your Zen into EC is to purchase stuff you want that DROPS or to avoid RNG from lockboxes.
Market workers that mark things up to there proper value are a GOOD thing for Cryptic. With out them the value of SOME stuff would drop no doubt... and this would devalue keys (as lockboxes would have in general less attractive things in them) People would there for open less boxes...
So yes Cryptic would make far less money... and the real catch is those people that don't care and just want there cheap exchange prices. The price on SOME stuff (Ships, traits people really want ect) Will in fact GO WAY up as the number of lockboxes being opened in general would drop... so the number of those Gold level rewards in the wild would drop as well... and with such small supply yes the price would skyrocket.
My point is Keeping the Majority of Lockbox items / Good value game drops priced at a proper market price (no one can price things out of the proper range... or the next market worker will just undercut right) keeps lockboxes flowing which is good for everyone. Keys are just tied to that... they are right now double what they where at 6 months ago... so if you are trying to sell them to high its your own fault they are not moving. The market workers will ensure the pricing is where it should be... and yes sometimes that is slightly lower then it was the day before.
Defaced value of keys would actually be profitable for Cryptic, so long as people keep buying them, and people use them for boxes.
To mark up key prices to high, and listing them on the exchange can put off player's, who do purchase them with EC's, and actually stall sales.
The stall might not be felt at first, but in time it adds up, and as market manager's keep ever increasing key prices, it will drive even fewer player's from buying them off the exchange.
With fewer exchange buyer's, it will trickle into a slight deficit to both the game economy, and Cryptic's profits.
Think of it this way, people buy keys to either open boxes, or sell on the exchange for EC's.
Now those who use them for boxes make Cryptic money, and so do those who sell them on the exchange, but here is where the problem arises.
Let's say at any given day, for example 1000 player's purchase 1mill keys to be sold for EC's.
Now let's say, of those 1mill keys 500k sell each day at the given 2.5mill EC's.
Now bump them up to say 3mill EC's per key, and suddenly you may find only 350k of those 1mill being bought up per day.
This leaves an additional 250k keys, to have to wait another day right along with the other 500k.
In time it will cause a backflow, and buyer's of keys to be sold on the exchange may slow purchasing them with zen, so as to not become overburdened with excess keys, waiting to be sold on the EC market.
Now say keys rise to 3.5mill EC's per key, causing only 100k per day to be sold, and so on, and so on.
In time it can be felt by all, even if it is something as small as a trickle.
This can also have a major effect on how available lobi, and lockbox ships are on the exchange, it might or might not necessarily effect the ship's price, but fewer and fewer keys being consumed can mean fewer and fewer ships available, which can spell disaster to those trying to profit off keys in EC's, so they can purchase a lobi, and/or lockbox ship.
Now don't get me wrong, there are those who will still sell these goods, even though they buy keys with zen/$$$, and use them on boxes for themselves and wind up with extras, but for those reliant on key buyer's with use of EC's, will trickle in time the buyer population and in effect backlash their own profits, either in EC's, or time itself.
With today's market prices, I stopped buying keys with EC's, and Zen long ago.
I would open boxes, if prices were not overinflated like they currently are.
That is where the market fixing comes in though.
I would say 2.5 mil for a key is NOT overpriced at all. When they sold for 1.5 million where they really any more profitable for you ?
When they sold at 1.5 million think of what it was you could sell out of the boxes.
I mean at that price we where on Temp lock box.... No traits, weapon packs that sold for 200k at most... there really no major resale value in the console packs that was in those boxes.
The price of keys have drifted up yes... because the amount of high value items coming out of those boxes has increased.
With Ferengi and Temp boxes pulling a weapon pack was a looser box. Now with Elachi / Voth / Hirogen (ok not a great value box but still) / and Undine... weapon packs may not be a break even... but selling a weapon pack for 1.7mil when you purchased the key for 2.5 is less painful then selling a pack for 200k when you spent 1.6mil.
Then of course you could pull one trait and pay for the next 30 boxes... not to mention the chance to pull ships hasn't changed.
The newer boxes also have other new treats like the Mining claims. When I do open boxes I shuffle around my opening on my ALT toons that I don't always play as often. Those claims are EC sinks no doubt but at least it gives me an easy 5 min log every couple days on those toons to refine my D. Those have increased the D I have earned quite a bit. As I will say I don't refine 8k on all 18 of my toons everyday... I will though every couple days take the 5 min to run through a couple tickets on my exchange mule toons. (that again pumps more into the system if I choose to buy keys)
I hear your point... and its valid... I just don't think 2.5-3.0 million per key is the point where things start to dry up... IMO with the current value of the box pulls nothing at all has changed in terms of key value... the price is proportional to the value of newer lockbox contents. Lockbox contents have more value the last 6 months... so key value has risen to reflect that.
I would say 2.5 mil for a key is NOT overpriced at all. When they sold for 1.5 million where they really any more profitable for you ?
When they sold at 1.5 million think of what it was you could sell out of the boxes.
I mean at that price we where on Temp lock box.... No traits, weapon packs that sold for 200k at most... there really no major resale value in the console packs that was in those boxes.
The price of keys have drifted up yes... because the amount of high value items coming out of those boxes has increased.
With Ferengi and Temp boxes pulling a weapon pack was a looser box. Now with Elachi / Voth / Hirogen (ok not a great value box but still) / and Undine... weapon packs may not be a break even... but selling a weapon pack for 1.7mil when you purchased the key for 2.5 is less painful then selling a pack for 200k when you spent 1.6mil.
Then of course you could pull one trait and pay for the next 30 boxes... not to mention the chance to pull ships hasn't changed.
The newer boxes also have other new treats like the Mining claims. When I do open boxes I shuffle around my opening on my ALT toons that I don't always play as often. Those claims are EC sinks no doubt but at least it gives me an easy 5 min log every couple days on those toons to refine my D. Those have increased the D I have earned quite a bit. As I will say I don't refine 8k on all 18 of my toons everyday... I will though every couple days take the 5 min to run through a couple tickets on my exchange mule toons. (that again pumps more into the system if I choose to buy keys)
I hear your point... and its valid... I just don't think 2.5-3.0 million per key is the point where things start to dry up... IMO with the current value of the box pulls nothing at all has changed in terms of key value... the price is proportional to the value of newer lockbox contents. Lockbox contents have more value the last 6 months... so key value has risen to reflect that.
I can grind-out enough Dilithium in under 2 hours to buy a Key. I am not certain I could grind-out 2.5 million ECs in under 2 hours without using an exploit of some type.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I can grind-out enough Dilithium in under 2 hours to buy a Key. I am not certain I could grind-out 2.5 million ECs in under 2 hours without using an exploit of some type.
Spend an hour in the space battle zone... replicate everything that isnt' a shield engine or deflector vender those... and you would be pretty close to that. (good indication pricing is where it should be as I see it... one hour of game time = a key pretty much either way)
I can grind-out enough Dilithium in under 2 hours to buy a Key. I am not certain I could grind-out 2.5 million ECs in under 2 hours without using an exploit of some type.
that is the problem if players keep up the prices of those lobi ships
like the Tal shiar now so 168 mil :eek:
you need to mine more and more to get some free zen from mining
and sell those keys
how long you can keep that up am sure a lot get sick and tired to mine
because you need more and more
after a few weeks am sure lobi ship going for 200 mill
players get more greedy by the day
and for players that cant spend real money gone quit soon because it takes way to much time to get that money
its cheaper to buy a ship from z store
ore try to open so 200 boxes and get those 800 lobi
and maybe if your lucky you get a ship
my luck sucks because i never get any ship from those boxes
so yea i just buy a ship from z store
for me a F2P must be fun to play and not get controled by uber rich players in real life that control everything
i spend real money to and support STO
but i never sell items so over priced
that is the problem if players keep up the prices of those lobi ships
like the Tal shiar now so 168 mil :eek:
you need to mine more and more to get some free zen from mining
and sell those keys
how long you can keep that up am sure a lot get sick and tired to mine
because you need more and more
after a few weeks am sure lobi ship going for 200 mill
players get more greedy by the day
and for players that cant spend real money gone quit soon because it takes way to much time to get that money
its cheaper to buy a ship from z store
ore try to open so 200 boxes and get those 800 lobi
and maybe if your lucky you get a ship
my luck sucks because i never get any ship from those boxes
so yea i just buy a ship from z store
for me a F2P must be fun to play and not get controled by uber rich players in real life that control everything
i spend real money to and support STO
but i never sell items so over priced
sorry for my english
I can pretty much agree, this is the reason like I mentioned, why I do not ever buy keys from the exchange.
At one time 1.25mill EC's, for a key was on par saying 1.25mill EC's, is the equivalent to $1.25, or 125 zen, now the keys are over double that equation, yet keys still cost 125 zen without change outside of a sale!!!
Once people started inflating prices way too much, I stopped buying them because, I am not going to double my efforts just to purchase a single key, due to other's greed of money.
I also do not purchase them with zen to be sold either, and until the zen/dilithium market settles down, I will not even buy them for personal use.
Once people started inflating prices way too much, I stopped buying them because, I am not going double my efforts just to purchase a single key, due to other's greed of money.
That's the thing it isn't greed its simple inflation. The fact that your grandfather could buy a piece of candy for a nickle that now costs your kids a buck fifty... doesn't make anyone more greedy then they where back then. A nickel just isn't worth a nickle anymore.
In the case of keys in STO... no one inflated them at all... THERE value went up. There value went up because the boxes they open now compared to the boxes they used to open have more value in them. There is also a case of more people wanting lockbox contents. For instance when the fist box dropped there are plenty of people that likely didn't want a galor and found almost no value in anything else in the box. So they choose to ignore it. Now a few years in there is a box that will tickle just about any trek fan in someway. Tempting more people to open boxes.
Increases in demand drive prices up... which in part drives inflation. Its a simple economic reality.
IF someone was to "invest" in lockboxs... by opening boxes and selling contents. The old pricing with the old list of boxes made pretty much the exact % return on investment as the new pricing + new box options.
If Cryptic say locked out the opening of all none current boxes... key price would fluctuate every new box based on how valuable that boxes content is.
At this point there is a good enough spread of box options to open... and stuffz to sell, that the people that open them for profit (or to offset the cost of there opening boxes for lobi ect) can find around 2.5 mil in value on average per box. Hench the market ends up setting the price of a key right around there. With box speculators jockeying over snapping up any keys that hit the exchange under a price threshold they have determined is profitable.
Of course if someone comes and posts a bunch of keys for 2mil I am gonig to SNAP them up as fast as I can... not to resell them at 2.5.... but to open boxes and sell the contents. Because at that price chances are I am going to turn a much better profit.
The myth that there is some bunch of players that buy keys at 2.2 million just to relist at 2.3 is crazy. I am not saying some people don't try... but the people with so much EC they have to send some to alt accounts didn't get there wasting there time with that.
the one you're trying to talk to already trolled one EC inflation thread into the dirt, don't give it another opportunity, dont be dragged down in the mud
It's a little too late for that now. The lack of an exchange tax on unsold items and energy credit sinks is what's driving prices up on the exchange, but it's always easier to blame 'greedy' people that have more than you.
Once people started inflating prices way too much, I stopped buying them because, I am not going double my efforts just to purchase a single key, due to other's greed of money.
Meh...
I say the SEC (Security and Exchange Commission) should become involved in all virtual exchanges and hand out real money fines to individuals who attempts to manipulate the market.
Let me put a hypothetical question to all those postees who are trying to play the (woefully incorrect, and laughably inaccurate "freedom" card)
If all the local supermarkets in your town (let's say 4 different "brands") got together one day and said "Let's all put the price of a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread up by 400%" ...
What do you think would happen?
Most likely, if any consumer "watchdog" group found out, they'd all be charged and told to either revert to "fair" pricing or risk being shut down .. because, that's not allowed in most "free" countries ... And certainly when consumers found out, there would be all hell to pay, so why then is it ok to do it to players in a video game?
Now, there is of course the argument that you don't have to buy milk or bread, but they are pretty much staples, and I guess you could say that you don't have to buy from the "locals', as you could always spend more time (and money) on traveling, but again, artificially inflating prices for nothing more than personal gain, purposely colluding with others to do itor knowledge that due to the difficulty of acquisition of items, it gives you an unfair advantage against the buyer, and then exploiting that advantage, is at the least frowned a upon, and in some cases illegal in most "free countries'.
There is no justification that you can provide, in any way, that makes what these players are doing "fair" or "allowing freedom" ...
If they were to be charged with a crime? Well in many countries it would be classed as "Price Fixing" and possibly even "Insider Trading"
I personally don't buy from them, and almost every piece of gear I get in game that I don't want, either gets recycled/vendor'd if it's low level, or placed in my Fleets bank for other Fleet members to use as they like, if it's a choice piece of kit (and yes I have "given away' a JHAS a TSAD a VBFDC and about a dozen SRO's) to fleet mates ...
I'm perfectly aware of the mechanics of "supply and demand", what I don't like is that many players aren't as "canny" as others, and don't always realise that they are being manipulated.
You are correct, you don't need a JHAS ... you don't need a Marion DoFF etc. But some players, particularly after reading these forums, and/or reading in game chat, might believe that these and many others are "must have" items.
Players do not "deserve" or "need' 100million EC's for anything in game ... Nothing "normally' available is worth any where bear that, and playing the game "casually" it would take you months to accumulate that much EC ... The only thing you'd ever need that much EC for is ... An item that, has been artificially infalted in both price and desirability to a ridiculous level ...
If Cryptic actually intended items to be worth 100 million + EC, they would be handing out much higher rewards in game, and this is undeniably provable simply by actually LOOKING at the EC price of most items in the bottom right corner of the tootip.
The only "valuable" item I have sold on the exchange is a couple of SRO's for a couple of million each, always below what others are asking, and even then I only do that if i'm starting a new toon, or respec'ing a toon to have a few million EC's on hand, which is all that I will ever spend.
So ... Yes you are correct that these ... ... are playing within the rules that Cryptic have set and can continue to exploit other players ... Does that make them "right"? NO ... Does that make it "fair"? NO ... Is that really how you define "freedom"? I would hope not!
...
Will I, at least, continue to be a friendly, helpful (even "gentlemanly?) participant in a Multi Player Game and try and help others in game and not exploit them ? ... Yes.
Does that make me naive or foolish? I don't think so, but I've no doubt others will ...
The Exchange is the Exchange. It has been a known quantity for a long time. I have very mixed feelings on the whole thing. My 2 cents (or to be on topic - 20,000,000 ECs)...
I rarely use it, and when I do, I sell at slightly below whatever the going rate is. Why? Because, I want my stuff gone - but see no need to take a huge loss by selling an item that's going for 250,000 for 19,999. Some drive up the cost of items - while annoying, those items were gotten in game, and if I want them bad enough, I can get them as well without using the exchange(except for some discontinued things like the Borg Kit etc).
Everything in STO is ridiculously easy to come by once you are Level 50. It's simple to earn at least a million EC in 45 minutes - just run Tour the Galaxy and one farming mission.
You can get equipment from mission rewards that let you compete in ESTFs with no problems - see the Antiproton beam arrays in Fluid Dynamics, or the Mk XI rare plasmas in the romulan arc, etc. The maligned crafting system goes up to Mk XI purple for most gear, and what's the copy-pasted response in every crafting thread? "It's CHEAPER on the Exchange."
Everyone complains that they EXCEED the dilithium refinement cap. All the time. Dilithium to zen to get the keys is a few days, on a single character. Dilithium for fleet gear or crafted gear, likewise.
Building a ship up should take some time. That's part of the whole point of the game. Otherwise the grind is simply grind for the sake of a grind. Lockbox ships, consoles, and weapons are supposed to be extraordinarily rare. In my opinion, the Exchange makes it too EASY for players to build up their ships. Just throw a number of million ECs around, and bam - you have a fully equipped bugship ready to own all the content. Have I bought weapons on the Exchange? Yes - and I fully admitted to myself at the time that I was too lazy to grind them for the Alt I was equipping.
The reason items do not go for the cryptic-suggested price is that those prices are full of baloney to begin with. Mk XI Rare is the endgame "common", commons and uncommons have no value at all, other than vendor trash. The items that are insanely priced are lockbox items, or drops that are ACTUALLY worth having. Here's an interesting thought experiment that would end speculators and make the game more challenging all in one go:
1 - No more exchange. You can still trade your items person to person. The Exchange allows people to manipulate the market by seeing what others are selling at, and buy up cheaper items to keep prices up.
2 - No more rare or very rare mission rewards. NONE. Then people will be forced to work hard for their weapons, deflectors, shields, armors, etc. Everyone argues the mission rewards aren't good enough - I would say we're all spoiled and they are TOO GOOD. Commons and Uncommons would have the value of the item in EC, because people would have to use them in the meantime. Rare and Very Rare items would be...Rare and Very Rare. Loot tables and tooltip values on Rare and Very Rare items should be adjusted likewise. There would instantly be incentive to craft again, and generic consoles like the Directed Energy Distribution Manifold would have use, as it may MAKE sense to have a rainbow boat, depending on what weapons you have.
3 - Why not price regulation while we're at it? If you trade person to person - it goes for the cryptic price _+/- 20% or some such. That said, instead of lower prices, what you'll likely see is instead of selling those awesome drops, people will hold onto them to use instead.
No need for that system not to work. 90% or more of the content in this game can be beaten with Mk X white weapons from the ESD vendors and teamwork. Teamwork is supposed to be part of the game, after all. The problem is not necessarily the price of items on the exchange, it is: 1-Why are there items that are so OP that they are the only items worth having?, 2-Why are these items priced "so low" by Cryptic in the tooltip? and 3-Why are these items easy enough to get that people are willing to part with them at all?
Just say no to instant-ships and instant-builds, and don't play the Exchange. Play the game. You'll be happier. If more people do this, the prices on the Exchange will come back down on their own, because no one will be buying.
That's the thing it isn't greed its simple inflation. The fact that your grandfather could buy a piece of candy for a nickle that now costs your kids a buck fifty... doesn't make anyone more greedy then they where back then. A nickel just isn't worth a nickle anymore.
In the case of keys in STO... no one inflated them at all... THERE value went up. There value went up because the boxes they open now compared to the boxes they used to open have more value in them. There is also a case of more people wanting lockbox contents. For instance when the fist box dropped there are plenty of people that likely didn't want a galor and found almost no value in anything else in the box. So they choose to ignore it. Now a few years in there is a box that will tickle just about any trek fan in someway. Tempting more people to open boxes.
Increases in demand drive prices up... which in part drives inflation. Its a simple economic reality.
IF someone was to "invest" in lockboxs... by opening boxes and selling contents. The old pricing with the old list of boxes made pretty much the exact % return on investment as the new pricing + new box options.
If Cryptic say locked out the opening of all none current boxes... key price would fluctuate every new box based on how valuable that boxes content is.
At this point there is a good enough spread of box options to open... and stuffz to sell, that the people that open them for profit (or to offset the cost of there opening boxes for lobi ect) can find around 2.5 mil in value on average per box. Hench the market ends up setting the price of a key right around there. With box speculators jockeying over snapping up any keys that hit the exchange under a price threshold they have determined is profitable.
Of course if someone comes and posts a bunch of keys for 2mil I am gonig to SNAP them up as fast as I can... not to resell them at 2.5.... but to open boxes and sell the contents. Because at that price chances are I am going to turn a much better profit.
The myth that there is some bunch of players that buy keys at 2.2 million just to relist at 2.3 is crazy. I am not saying some people don't try... but the people with so much EC they have to send some to alt accounts didn't get there wasting there time with that.
You cannot inflate an economy that has infinite currency, EC's cannot deflate simply because they are infinite.
Lockbox items are of no greater value today, than they were 2 years ago, items could be sold for the same than, as they are now so the point is fruitless.
It is simple greed by supply vs demand, it always is!!!
just make a max cap for ea lobi ship 50 mil
and ships that don't sell and the lobi NPC max 70 mill
so the money going around better
so every1 have a change to buy a ship
now i still see a lot of players get that undine nicor
and put in it EC for more then 100 mil +- and no1 buy it because of the insane high price
its a waste of your real money to open those boxes
if you sell it a bit cheaper then more pll buy those ships
with that you can buy other stuff again
and with this the economy keeps rolling good
thats how i think
Lobi ships I can understand why they are expensive, because it took many people a lot of money to gain one to be sold, but keys they are a fixed price in the C-store, and yet people inflate the price of them everyday!
Lobi ships I can understand why they are expensive, because it took many people a lot of money to gain one to be sold, but keys they are a fixed price in the C-store, and yet people inflate the price of them everyday!
if i see in my screen ea day that players get a ship
that is so 10 ea day 70 a week i dont think its so hard to get those ships
its the same in real life my country things with up the taxes and the oil and so on we can be out of our dept but its not true
pll keep there hands on the wallet and only buy what is needed with that a lot of companies have trouble because pll don't buy any car anymore and so on
so we still have a dept
pll only wanna buy nice things when its cheap
if i see in my screen ea day that players get a ship
that is so 10 ea day 70 a week i dont think its so hard to get those ships
its the same in real life my country things with up the taxes and the oil and so on we can be out of our dept but its not true
pll keep there hands on the wallet and only buy what is needed with that a lot of companies have trouble because pll don't buy any car anymore and so on
so we still have a dept
pll only wanna buy nice things when its cheap
Compile what you see each day, vs how many are regularly listed on the exchange, than tell me how hard they are to get just to be sold (not for personal use)!!!
Granted 10 ea day, vs the possibility of let's say, as an example 1000 boxes opened ea day, is a 100:1 ratio.
Now what if there are 10000 boxes opened ea day, well 1000:1 ratio, and so on.
Not hard would likely be a 10:1, or a 5:1, or better yet 2:1, or 1:1.
Plus, the ultimate argument about lock box ship pricing is if you don't want to pay TRIBBLE million EC, then do some mining, buy some zen, buy the keys, and open the boxes.
The Nicor is easy to get - said right here - the messages are floating by on the screen everyday. The boxes drop - too much.
I don't like the gamble, so if I want a lock box ship, I'll probably buy it with EC. I'm perfectly happy with my C Store and Fleet ships though. No gamble, and they're quite decent.
If you don't want to gamble, don't get mad when those that DID gamble choose their own price. If you're unwilling to open the boxes because you don't like the odds, clearly you think it would be too expensive/not worth it because of the number of keys likely needed to get the ship, which turns into wanting something (the ship) from someone (the box opener), for less than their cost (why?).
As to people re-buying items to keep prices up. That's bound to happen in any unregulated economy (even happens IRL, on eBay etc). You can be certain if a few 1961 Ferrari 250 GTs went up for sale somewhere for $14000 (because that's what Ferrari said it was worth in 1961), they'd get snapped up instantly and at least one put up for the proper millions it is worth. It sucks, but I'm not posting on car forums complaining that the price of the 61 Ferrari is too high. I will repeat myself from earlier - don't play the exchange if you don't want. It's all optional - and the lock box ships don't make or break the game.
As for keys being expensive on the exchange - both dilithium and EC are completely virtual currencies. If it's cheaper to use dilithium to convert to zen and get the keys, it would be foolish not to. If everyone hopped on that bandwagon, the EC price on the exchange would drop pretty quick. The problem is people don't WANT to part with their dilithium, which means the EC must be worth less (or they would part with the dil for keys).
A recent post got me thinking. The OP was complaining that people who posted keys for sale on the exchange were undercutting the market by posting lower than the current price.
In a response I laughed - welcome to the economy of an MMO.
And it got me thinking. Assuming an ec only economy (no earned dil), what is the price of a key worth in EC?
Currently the only way to buy EC is Contraband (and/or turning in prisoners for the KDF).
Right now contraband is selling for 40,000 EC.
5 contraband, when turned in produced 2000 Dilithium
So 200,000 ec = 2000 Dilithium, or the ratio of ec to dil is 100:1
The Dilithium Exchange is fairly stage in the 150 range (151 today) to 1 Zen.
1 Key is worth today at 112.5 Zen (assuming a ten-pack)
So a key is worth 16,875 dilithium, or more appropriately 1,687,500 ec.
Current market resale price for a key is 2,700,000 ec, essentially a 60% markup.
Buying a key with Dil is much more cost effective.
My Two Bits (at 60% markup)
Admiral Thrax
do you not think that that people running the game are gaming all these economic systems so using the Zen store is the better option?
but players up the price of the keys because players up the price also for the lobi ships
so what you gone do ??
first you need lets say 50 keys to sell to get that amount of money to buy that ship
but now you need 2x more keys to get that ship
so in terms you waste a lot more real cash
ore you can mine for ever to get a lot of keys
but if the players think we ad another 20 mil up to those ships you think dammit
i need to mine more -.-
so how long can you keep this up mine for years i don't think so
The lobi ships should be expensive, because it can quite literally cost $200 worth of lobi just for 1 ship, yet there is an actual limit for how much they can be sold for on the exchange (not sure if sold by trade with player though).
If people are reselling the ships, and forced to pay way OP amount for keys, than of course they should skyrocket the cost of a ship, heck why hand everything over to key seller's?
The whole term supply, and demand right now for keys, should mean we supply the keys, and demand ever increasing costs for those keys, because we are greedy.
do you not think that that people running the game are gaming all these economic systems so using the Zen store is the better option?
And so they have to. We're free to play. Servers, voice acting, new content, developers, etc. Are NOT free. The money has to come from somewhere, so it comes from the store and keys.
If keys are cheaper to buy with dilithium right now, then that's the way people should buy them. If people stopped buying them with EC, the EC price would drop in response. It would have to. Even at today's insane dil/zen rates, it's roughly 3 days on a single character to get enough for one key. 2.5 million EC is probably more than a 3 days worth of EC, I agree. That being said, 1.6 million EC wouldn't be THAT easy to get either. Either way, you're in for some serious grind (EC or dilithium).
The cheapest way to get a key is to open your wallet and spend $1.25 US. I recognize that some cannot or will not do it. Grinding dilithium or EC to get a ship (other than the mirror ones, which are thankfully cheap) is a long long haul.
As for the lockbox and lobi ships being crazy expensive. Two options - buy keys and open your own boxes, or starve them out. If no one buys them, prices will fall. Greed has alot to do with it - BUT, there are still buyers. The only way exchange prices will fall is if the buyers disappear. Even then, some would then not want to sell. The only ships available in game at a set price are the ones in the store and lobi store - and free lobi doesn't come around often.
The Exchange is not a store. It doesn't have a supply chain with fixed prices on ships. Cryptic's store is that. The Exchange is more like a flea market. Independent buyers and sellers. People are greedy, but if you don't like the prices, you don't need to buy. There's nothing on there that you need to be successful in STO. Nothing. If you can't beat ISE with your ship and four friends, then a Nicor won't fix it.
For items to reliably sell at lower amounts of EC, then EC would have to be hard to get. The spread between good and bad items would have to narrow - a lot. As for EC prices going up - what we're seeing is inevitable, you can't keep printing money (EC) forever and ever (drops), and keep prices down. Trying to force prices down has been tried in countries all over the world at one time or another, it leads to people not selling anything. Want to force people to sell their Nicor at 100,000 EC? Good luck.
There are Tens to Hundreds of Millions of EC flowing into the Economy without much place for it to go. All items sold on the exchange just transfers EC from one person to another. The skyrocketing price of Keys has caused less boxes to get opened and which has resulted in a ripple effect throughout the entire economy.
With the replay event there are more people playing and more people opening boxes as they are close to getting 800 Lobi or to another goal to buy something they want with Lobi. This has resulted in more ships being on the exchange. I had to take a 5 Million EC hit on a Galor because I saw the price falling and am glad I did. Prices on the Galor fell more then 15 Million then the price I sold it for
The bottom line is I as with many others are not buying keys on the exchange because of the high price. Personally I would open 3-5 a week and hold a lockbox party for a select members of my fleet once a month and pass out keys so people can open boxes. I can't afford to do this any longer, the price is too high.
In regards to people referencing greed and people playing the exchange, I must say I would rather play the exchange and have anything and EVERYTHING I could want for FREE then to pony up real cash or grind until my eyeballs bleed. I pulled down 12 million EC in 45 minutes by flipping a ship yesterday. Beat that with Fed Farm. :P
So for all you working class heros, you can either work smart or hard. I prefer the former but don't call me greedy or other names.
Something I said awhile back.
"Life is like a game. You either learn to play by the rules or you end up on the losing side. If you choose to live in fantasy land instead of adapting to the world around you then please don't cry about your results."
Comments
Something doesn't fit with this, meaning you cannot list more than 40 items on the exchange, and also you must not be listing items you wish to keep very high as you say, because if you did no1 would actually buy them.
The term you are looking for is price fixing, and/or price gouging, for which both are illegal in the US, however there is very little regulation on how far someone can actually mark up an item, before it becomes classified as price gouging.
Defaced value of keys would actually be profitable for Cryptic, so long as people keep buying them, and people use them for boxes.
To mark up key prices to high, and listing them on the exchange can put off player's, who do purchase them with EC's, and actually stall sales.
The stall might not be felt at first, but in time it adds up, and as market manager's keep ever increasing key prices, it will drive even fewer player's from buying them off the exchange.
With fewer exchange buyer's, it will trickle into a slight deficit to both the game economy, and Cryptic's profits.
Think of it this way, people buy keys to either open boxes, or sell on the exchange for EC's.
Now those who use them for boxes make Cryptic money, and so do those who sell them on the exchange, but here is where the problem arises.
Let's say at any given day, for example 1000 player's purchase 1mill keys to be sold for EC's.
Now let's say, of those 1mill keys 500k sell each day at the given 2.5mill EC's.
Now bump them up to say 3mill EC's per key, and suddenly you may find only 350k of those 1mill being bought up per day.
This leaves an additional 250k keys, to have to wait another day right along with the other 500k.
In time it will cause a backflow, and buyer's of keys to be sold on the exchange may slow purchasing them with zen, so as to not become overburdened with excess keys, waiting to be sold on the EC market.
Now say keys rise to 3.5mill EC's per key, causing only 100k per day to be sold, and so on, and so on.
In time it can be felt by all, even if it is something as small as a trickle.
This can also have a major effect on how available lobi, and lockbox ships are on the exchange, it might or might not necessarily effect the ship's price, but fewer and fewer keys being consumed can mean fewer and fewer ships available, which can spell disaster to those trying to profit off keys in EC's, so they can purchase a lobi, and/or lockbox ship.
Now don't get me wrong, there are those who will still sell these goods, even though they buy keys with zen/$$$, and use them on boxes for themselves and wind up with extras, but for those reliant on key buyer's with use of EC's, will trickle in time the buyer population and in effect backlash their own profits, either in EC's, or time itself.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
10 alts at max refinement per day..
I stopped opening boxes some time ago, keys from zen bought with my dil = AWESOME
With today's market prices, I stopped buying keys with EC's, and Zen long ago.
I would open boxes, if prices were not overinflated like they currently are.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
That is where the market fixing comes in though.
I would say 2.5 mil for a key is NOT overpriced at all. When they sold for 1.5 million where they really any more profitable for you ?
When they sold at 1.5 million think of what it was you could sell out of the boxes.
I mean at that price we where on Temp lock box.... No traits, weapon packs that sold for 200k at most... there really no major resale value in the console packs that was in those boxes.
The price of keys have drifted up yes... because the amount of high value items coming out of those boxes has increased.
With Ferengi and Temp boxes pulling a weapon pack was a looser box. Now with Elachi / Voth / Hirogen (ok not a great value box but still) / and Undine... weapon packs may not be a break even... but selling a weapon pack for 1.7mil when you purchased the key for 2.5 is less painful then selling a pack for 200k when you spent 1.6mil.
Then of course you could pull one trait and pay for the next 30 boxes... not to mention the chance to pull ships hasn't changed.
The newer boxes also have other new treats like the Mining claims. When I do open boxes I shuffle around my opening on my ALT toons that I don't always play as often. Those claims are EC sinks no doubt but at least it gives me an easy 5 min log every couple days on those toons to refine my D. Those have increased the D I have earned quite a bit. As I will say I don't refine 8k on all 18 of my toons everyday... I will though every couple days take the 5 min to run through a couple tickets on my exchange mule toons. (that again pumps more into the system if I choose to buy keys)
I hear your point... and its valid... I just don't think 2.5-3.0 million per key is the point where things start to dry up... IMO with the current value of the box pulls nothing at all has changed in terms of key value... the price is proportional to the value of newer lockbox contents. Lockbox contents have more value the last 6 months... so key value has risen to reflect that.
OP Ship = Spike in price
Spend an hour in the space battle zone... replicate everything that isnt' a shield engine or deflector vender those... and you would be pretty close to that. (good indication pricing is where it should be as I see it... one hour of game time = a key pretty much either way)
that is the problem if players keep up the prices of those lobi ships
like the Tal shiar now so 168 mil :eek:
you need to mine more and more to get some free zen from mining
and sell those keys
how long you can keep that up am sure a lot get sick and tired to mine
because you need more and more
after a few weeks am sure lobi ship going for 200 mill
players get more greedy by the day
and for players that cant spend real money gone quit soon because it takes way to much time to get that money
its cheaper to buy a ship from z store
ore try to open so 200 boxes and get those 800 lobi
and maybe if your lucky you get a ship
my luck sucks because i never get any ship from those boxes
so yea i just buy a ship from z store
for me a F2P must be fun to play and not get controled by uber rich players in real life that control everything
i spend real money to and support STO
but i never sell items so over priced
sorry for my english
I can pretty much agree, this is the reason like I mentioned, why I do not ever buy keys from the exchange.
At one time 1.25mill EC's, for a key was on par saying 1.25mill EC's, is the equivalent to $1.25, or 125 zen, now the keys are over double that equation, yet keys still cost 125 zen without change outside of a sale!!!
Once people started inflating prices way too much, I stopped buying them because, I am not going to double my efforts just to purchase a single key, due to other's greed of money.
I also do not purchase them with zen to be sold either, and until the zen/dilithium market settles down, I will not even buy them for personal use.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
That's the thing it isn't greed its simple inflation. The fact that your grandfather could buy a piece of candy for a nickle that now costs your kids a buck fifty... doesn't make anyone more greedy then they where back then. A nickel just isn't worth a nickle anymore.
In the case of keys in STO... no one inflated them at all... THERE value went up. There value went up because the boxes they open now compared to the boxes they used to open have more value in them. There is also a case of more people wanting lockbox contents. For instance when the fist box dropped there are plenty of people that likely didn't want a galor and found almost no value in anything else in the box. So they choose to ignore it. Now a few years in there is a box that will tickle just about any trek fan in someway. Tempting more people to open boxes.
Increases in demand drive prices up... which in part drives inflation. Its a simple economic reality.
IF someone was to "invest" in lockboxs... by opening boxes and selling contents. The old pricing with the old list of boxes made pretty much the exact % return on investment as the new pricing + new box options.
If Cryptic say locked out the opening of all none current boxes... key price would fluctuate every new box based on how valuable that boxes content is.
At this point there is a good enough spread of box options to open... and stuffz to sell, that the people that open them for profit (or to offset the cost of there opening boxes for lobi ect) can find around 2.5 mil in value on average per box. Hench the market ends up setting the price of a key right around there. With box speculators jockeying over snapping up any keys that hit the exchange under a price threshold they have determined is profitable.
Of course if someone comes and posts a bunch of keys for 2mil I am gonig to SNAP them up as fast as I can... not to resell them at 2.5.... but to open boxes and sell the contents. Because at that price chances are I am going to turn a much better profit.
The myth that there is some bunch of players that buy keys at 2.2 million just to relist at 2.3 is crazy. I am not saying some people don't try... but the people with so much EC they have to send some to alt accounts didn't get there wasting there time with that.
It's a little too late for that now. The lack of an exchange tax on unsold items and energy credit sinks is what's driving prices up on the exchange, but it's always easier to blame 'greedy' people that have more than you.
Meh...
I say the SEC (Security and Exchange Commission) should become involved in all virtual exchanges and hand out real money fines to individuals who attempts to manipulate the market.
If all the local supermarkets in your town (let's say 4 different "brands") got together one day and said "Let's all put the price of a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread up by 400%" ...
What do you think would happen?
Most likely, if any consumer "watchdog" group found out, they'd all be charged and told to either revert to "fair" pricing or risk being shut down .. because, that's not allowed in most "free" countries ... And certainly when consumers found out, there would be all hell to pay, so why then is it ok to do it to players in a video game?
Now, there is of course the argument that you don't have to buy milk or bread, but they are pretty much staples, and I guess you could say that you don't have to buy from the "locals', as you could always spend more time (and money) on traveling, but again, artificially inflating prices for nothing more than personal gain, purposely colluding with others to do itor knowledge that due to the difficulty of acquisition of items, it gives you an unfair advantage against the buyer, and then exploiting that advantage, is at the least frowned a upon, and in some cases illegal in most "free countries'.
There is no justification that you can provide, in any way, that makes what these players are doing "fair" or "allowing freedom" ...
If they were to be charged with a crime? Well in many countries it would be classed as "Price Fixing" and possibly even "Insider Trading"
I personally don't buy from them, and almost every piece of gear I get in game that I don't want, either gets recycled/vendor'd if it's low level, or placed in my Fleets bank for other Fleet members to use as they like, if it's a choice piece of kit (and yes I have "given away' a JHAS a TSAD a VBFDC and about a dozen SRO's) to fleet mates ...
I'm perfectly aware of the mechanics of "supply and demand", what I don't like is that many players aren't as "canny" as others, and don't always realise that they are being manipulated.
You are correct, you don't need a JHAS ... you don't need a Marion DoFF etc. But some players, particularly after reading these forums, and/or reading in game chat, might believe that these and many others are "must have" items.
Players do not "deserve" or "need' 100million EC's for anything in game ... Nothing "normally' available is worth any where bear that, and playing the game "casually" it would take you months to accumulate that much EC ... The only thing you'd ever need that much EC for is ... An item that, has been artificially infalted in both price and desirability to a ridiculous level ...
If Cryptic actually intended items to be worth 100 million + EC, they would be handing out much higher rewards in game, and this is undeniably provable simply by actually LOOKING at the EC price of most items in the bottom right corner of the tootip.
The only "valuable" item I have sold on the exchange is a couple of SRO's for a couple of million each, always below what others are asking, and even then I only do that if i'm starting a new toon, or respec'ing a toon to have a few million EC's on hand, which is all that I will ever spend.
So ... Yes you are correct that these ... ... are playing within the rules that Cryptic have set and can continue to exploit other players ... Does that make them "right"? NO ... Does that make it "fair"? NO ... Is that really how you define "freedom"? I would hope not!
...
Will I, at least, continue to be a friendly, helpful (even "gentlemanly?) participant in a Multi Player Game and try and help others in game and not exploit them ? ... Yes.
Does that make me naive or foolish? I don't think so, but I've no doubt others will ...
I rarely use it, and when I do, I sell at slightly below whatever the going rate is. Why? Because, I want my stuff gone - but see no need to take a huge loss by selling an item that's going for 250,000 for 19,999. Some drive up the cost of items - while annoying, those items were gotten in game, and if I want them bad enough, I can get them as well without using the exchange(except for some discontinued things like the Borg Kit etc).
Everything in STO is ridiculously easy to come by once you are Level 50. It's simple to earn at least a million EC in 45 minutes - just run Tour the Galaxy and one farming mission.
You can get equipment from mission rewards that let you compete in ESTFs with no problems - see the Antiproton beam arrays in Fluid Dynamics, or the Mk XI rare plasmas in the romulan arc, etc. The maligned crafting system goes up to Mk XI purple for most gear, and what's the copy-pasted response in every crafting thread? "It's CHEAPER on the Exchange."
Everyone complains that they EXCEED the dilithium refinement cap. All the time. Dilithium to zen to get the keys is a few days, on a single character. Dilithium for fleet gear or crafted gear, likewise.
Building a ship up should take some time. That's part of the whole point of the game. Otherwise the grind is simply grind for the sake of a grind. Lockbox ships, consoles, and weapons are supposed to be extraordinarily rare. In my opinion, the Exchange makes it too EASY for players to build up their ships. Just throw a number of million ECs around, and bam - you have a fully equipped bugship ready to own all the content. Have I bought weapons on the Exchange? Yes - and I fully admitted to myself at the time that I was too lazy to grind them for the Alt I was equipping.
The reason items do not go for the cryptic-suggested price is that those prices are full of baloney to begin with. Mk XI Rare is the endgame "common", commons and uncommons have no value at all, other than vendor trash. The items that are insanely priced are lockbox items, or drops that are ACTUALLY worth having. Here's an interesting thought experiment that would end speculators and make the game more challenging all in one go:
1 - No more exchange. You can still trade your items person to person. The Exchange allows people to manipulate the market by seeing what others are selling at, and buy up cheaper items to keep prices up.
2 - No more rare or very rare mission rewards. NONE. Then people will be forced to work hard for their weapons, deflectors, shields, armors, etc. Everyone argues the mission rewards aren't good enough - I would say we're all spoiled and they are TOO GOOD. Commons and Uncommons would have the value of the item in EC, because people would have to use them in the meantime. Rare and Very Rare items would be...Rare and Very Rare. Loot tables and tooltip values on Rare and Very Rare items should be adjusted likewise. There would instantly be incentive to craft again, and generic consoles like the Directed Energy Distribution Manifold would have use, as it may MAKE sense to have a rainbow boat, depending on what weapons you have.
3 - Why not price regulation while we're at it? If you trade person to person - it goes for the cryptic price _+/- 20% or some such. That said, instead of lower prices, what you'll likely see is instead of selling those awesome drops, people will hold onto them to use instead.
No need for that system not to work. 90% or more of the content in this game can be beaten with Mk X white weapons from the ESD vendors and teamwork. Teamwork is supposed to be part of the game, after all. The problem is not necessarily the price of items on the exchange, it is: 1-Why are there items that are so OP that they are the only items worth having?, 2-Why are these items priced "so low" by Cryptic in the tooltip? and 3-Why are these items easy enough to get that people are willing to part with them at all?
Just say no to instant-ships and instant-builds, and don't play the Exchange. Play the game. You'll be happier. If more people do this, the prices on the Exchange will come back down on their own, because no one will be buying.
You cannot inflate an economy that has infinite currency, EC's cannot deflate simply because they are infinite.
Lockbox items are of no greater value today, than they were 2 years ago, items could be sold for the same than, as they are now so the point is fruitless.
It is simple greed by supply vs demand, it always is!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
and ships that don't sell and the lobi NPC max 70 mill
so the money going around better
so every1 have a change to buy a ship
now i still see a lot of players get that undine nicor
and put in it EC for more then 100 mil +- and no1 buy it because of the insane high price
its a waste of your real money to open those boxes
if you sell it a bit cheaper then more pll buy those ships
with that you can buy other stuff again
and with this the economy keeps rolling good
thats how i think
Lobi ships I can understand why they are expensive, because it took many people a lot of money to gain one to be sold, but keys they are a fixed price in the C-store, and yet people inflate the price of them everyday!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
if i see in my screen ea day that players get a ship
that is so 10 ea day 70 a week i dont think its so hard to get those ships
its the same in real life my country things with up the taxes and the oil and so on we can be out of our dept but its not true
pll keep there hands on the wallet and only buy what is needed with that a lot of companies have trouble because pll don't buy any car anymore and so on
so we still have a dept
pll only wanna buy nice things when its cheap
Compile what you see each day, vs how many are regularly listed on the exchange, than tell me how hard they are to get just to be sold (not for personal use)!!!
Granted 10 ea day, vs the possibility of let's say, as an example 1000 boxes opened ea day, is a 100:1 ratio.
Now what if there are 10000 boxes opened ea day, well 1000:1 ratio, and so on.
Not hard would likely be a 10:1, or a 5:1, or better yet 2:1, or 1:1.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
The Nicor is easy to get - said right here - the messages are floating by on the screen everyday. The boxes drop - too much.
I don't like the gamble, so if I want a lock box ship, I'll probably buy it with EC. I'm perfectly happy with my C Store and Fleet ships though. No gamble, and they're quite decent.
If you don't want to gamble, don't get mad when those that DID gamble choose their own price. If you're unwilling to open the boxes because you don't like the odds, clearly you think it would be too expensive/not worth it because of the number of keys likely needed to get the ship, which turns into wanting something (the ship) from someone (the box opener), for less than their cost (why?).
As to people re-buying items to keep prices up. That's bound to happen in any unregulated economy (even happens IRL, on eBay etc). You can be certain if a few 1961 Ferrari 250 GTs went up for sale somewhere for $14000 (because that's what Ferrari said it was worth in 1961), they'd get snapped up instantly and at least one put up for the proper millions it is worth. It sucks, but I'm not posting on car forums complaining that the price of the 61 Ferrari is too high. I will repeat myself from earlier - don't play the exchange if you don't want. It's all optional - and the lock box ships don't make or break the game.
As for keys being expensive on the exchange - both dilithium and EC are completely virtual currencies. If it's cheaper to use dilithium to convert to zen and get the keys, it would be foolish not to. If everyone hopped on that bandwagon, the EC price on the exchange would drop pretty quick. The problem is people don't WANT to part with their dilithium, which means the EC must be worth less (or they would part with the dil for keys).
exactly if you don't like the prices on the exchange you're free to open your wallet and pay for them with dollars instead
so what you gone do ??
first you need lets say 50 keys to sell to get that amount of money to buy that ship
but now you need 2x more keys to get that ship
so in terms you waste a lot more real cash
ore you can mine for ever to get a lot of keys
but if the players think we ad another 20 mil up to those ships you think dammit
i need to mine more -.-
so how long can you keep this up mine for years i don't think so
do you not think that that people running the game are gaming all these economic systems so using the Zen store is the better option?
The lobi ships should be expensive, because it can quite literally cost $200 worth of lobi just for 1 ship, yet there is an actual limit for how much they can be sold for on the exchange (not sure if sold by trade with player though).
If people are reselling the ships, and forced to pay way OP amount for keys, than of course they should skyrocket the cost of a ship, heck why hand everything over to key seller's?
The whole term supply, and demand right now for keys, should mean we supply the keys, and demand ever increasing costs for those keys, because we are greedy.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
And so they have to. We're free to play. Servers, voice acting, new content, developers, etc. Are NOT free. The money has to come from somewhere, so it comes from the store and keys.
If keys are cheaper to buy with dilithium right now, then that's the way people should buy them. If people stopped buying them with EC, the EC price would drop in response. It would have to. Even at today's insane dil/zen rates, it's roughly 3 days on a single character to get enough for one key. 2.5 million EC is probably more than a 3 days worth of EC, I agree. That being said, 1.6 million EC wouldn't be THAT easy to get either. Either way, you're in for some serious grind (EC or dilithium).
The cheapest way to get a key is to open your wallet and spend $1.25 US. I recognize that some cannot or will not do it. Grinding dilithium or EC to get a ship (other than the mirror ones, which are thankfully cheap) is a long long haul.
As for the lockbox and lobi ships being crazy expensive. Two options - buy keys and open your own boxes, or starve them out. If no one buys them, prices will fall. Greed has alot to do with it - BUT, there are still buyers. The only way exchange prices will fall is if the buyers disappear. Even then, some would then not want to sell. The only ships available in game at a set price are the ones in the store and lobi store - and free lobi doesn't come around often.
The Exchange is not a store. It doesn't have a supply chain with fixed prices on ships. Cryptic's store is that. The Exchange is more like a flea market. Independent buyers and sellers. People are greedy, but if you don't like the prices, you don't need to buy. There's nothing on there that you need to be successful in STO. Nothing. If you can't beat ISE with your ship and four friends, then a Nicor won't fix it.
For items to reliably sell at lower amounts of EC, then EC would have to be hard to get. The spread between good and bad items would have to narrow - a lot. As for EC prices going up - what we're seeing is inevitable, you can't keep printing money (EC) forever and ever (drops), and keep prices down. Trying to force prices down has been tried in countries all over the world at one time or another, it leads to people not selling anything. Want to force people to sell their Nicor at 100,000 EC? Good luck.
With the replay event there are more people playing and more people opening boxes as they are close to getting 800 Lobi or to another goal to buy something they want with Lobi. This has resulted in more ships being on the exchange. I had to take a 5 Million EC hit on a Galor because I saw the price falling and am glad I did. Prices on the Galor fell more then 15 Million then the price I sold it for
The bottom line is I as with many others are not buying keys on the exchange because of the high price. Personally I would open 3-5 a week and hold a lockbox party for a select members of my fleet once a month and pass out keys so people can open boxes. I can't afford to do this any longer, the price is too high.
In regards to people referencing greed and people playing the exchange, I must say I would rather play the exchange and have anything and EVERYTHING I could want for FREE then to pony up real cash or grind until my eyeballs bleed. I pulled down 12 million EC in 45 minutes by flipping a ship yesterday. Beat that with Fed Farm. :P
So for all you working class heros, you can either work smart or hard. I prefer the former but don't call me greedy or other names.
Something I said awhile back.
"Life is like a game. You either learn to play by the rules or you end up on the losing side. If you choose to live in fantasy land instead of adapting to the world around you then please don't cry about your results."