suggestion name change Rear Admiral

raptorsds · May 2014

i suggest to change the name of both Rear Admirals

Rear Admiral lower half to commodore
Rear Admiral upper half to Rear admiral

i thing its more easy listing and better understand , and shorter to write

i start a poll/Survey in german forum

please use

http://sto-forum.de.perfectworld.eu/showthread.php?t=337712

Ja / Yes
Nein / No

talonxv · May 2014

The reason it's the way it is now, is because they are using US Naval ranks. Though I wish they'd ditch rear admiral lower for Commodore.

smeeinn1t · May 2014

raptorsds wrote: »

i suggest to change the name of both konteradmirals

konteradmiral lower half to commodore
konteradmiral upper half to konteradmiral

i thing its more easy listing and better understand , and shorter to write

i start a poll/Survey in german forum

please use

http://sto-forum.de.perfectworld.eu/showthread.php?t=337712

Ja / Yes
Nein / No

Konteradmiral = Rear Admiral.

(Personal note: I don't see them changing this.)

aloishammer · May 2014

Nein. Nyet. Nowai. Pass.

dareau · May 2014

talonxv wrote: »

The reason it's the way it is now, is because they are using US Naval ranks. Though I wish they'd ditch rear admiral lower for Commodore.

However, sometime between ToS on TV and TMP, the Navy "ditched" Commodore as an official rank and eventually went to RALH/RAUH...

There was much confusion - for "most" of naval history, Commodore was a "semi-official" title that was given to a standard Captain when he was placed in charge of a flotilla. In the time period that Commodore was an "official" rank, there was much confusion as O6 Captain/flotilla leaders were being called Commodore, along with all the one-star "Admiral" types... That was the "major" driver behind the change...

raptorsds · May 2014

Thanks for your Opinion , sorry for my bad English

There was much confusion - for "most" of naval history, Commodore was a "semi-official" title that was given to a standard Captain when he was placed in charge of a flotilla. In the time period that Commodore was an "official" rank, there was much confusion as O6 Captain/flotilla leaders were being called Commodore, along with all the one-star "Admiral" types... That was the "major" driver behind the change...

Yes that right but in ST Vanguard there use it too.

(Personal note: I don't see them changing this.)

but when no one say it there will be no chance to change

artan42 · May 2014

Yes they should.
No mention of RA LH in ST only Commodores.

askray · May 2014

This has come up dozens of times since the beginning when we got Rear Admiral and if it hasn't been changed in 4 years, it's not going to be. Commodore was used because at the time that was the proper rank. Since TOS, it's been phased out to the proper Rear Admiral Lower Half.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Rear_admiral

artan42 · May 2014

Only two, Mark Jameson and Gregory Quinn. They could have been Commodores or Rear Admirals with the wrong badges (fro a change

).

diotw · May 2014

Commodore just sounds better. Rear Admiral Lower Half is so clunky.

artan42 · May 2014

Plus Commodores can captain ships without it sounding silly, as an Admiral (of any sort) would.

revandarklighter · May 2014

We end up being forced into the rank of "Vice Admiral" anyway. Even as Romulans. So why bother with that ranks we inhibit for... how long? 2 hours per character? 3?

Its a long standing request since the beta phase of this game to make the rank customizable, which istnt a big deal.
Because a lot of ppl, including myself, don't want to be rear admiral upper, lower, right, left or middle half or vice admiral or anything admiral.
They want to be CAPTAINS like those Idols some of us have seen in those people commanding Spaceships in that tv show, more and more unrelated to this game, called star trek.

dareau wrote: »

However, sometime between ToS on TV and TMP, the Navy "ditched" Commodore as an official rank and eventually went to RALH/RAUH...

There was much confusion - for "most" of naval history, Commodore was a "semi-official" title that was given to a standard Captain when he was placed in charge of a flotilla. In the time period that Commodore was an "official" rank, there was much confusion as O6 Captain/flotilla leaders were being called Commodore, along with all the one-star "Admiral" types... That was the "major" driver behind the change...

Funny I never have heard that anyone was addressed as "rear admiral lowe half" in the series....

askray · May 2014

colonelmarik wrote: »

This is an OLD request. We've been asking for this since the game began.

Here are the FACTS.

Starfleet is NOT the US military.

Commodore is a rank we HAVE seen Starfleet use.
Rear Admiral Lower Half has NEVER been observed at any time in use by Starfleet.

The last reference to a Commodore in Star Trek was in The Motion Picture, however there was apparently a reference in TNG, according to Memory Alpha.

"The first mention of the rank of commodore in Star Trek: The Next Generation occurred in the episode "Conspiracy". In that episode, several commodores were issuing commands in mission orders to starship captains. These orders were read by Lieutenant Commander Data in the android's investigation into a suspected conspiracy among the higher members of Starfleet Command."

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Commodore

This excerpt suggests the rank was still in use by at least the first season of TNG.

That we didn't see a Commodore in TNG or later does NOT mean there were none. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

With Commodore definitely being in use, and NO evidence of Lower Half being in use, the default position should have been that COMMODORE be the rank of choice at that level.

And, for the record, there are MANY navies in the world that use COMMODORE (such as Canada), any of which would have just as valid a representation in Star Trek.

We've gone over this a thousand times before as well. No, starfleet is not US military however the ranking structure was BASED on the US navy and as such it changed, and the link I provided is the direct canon information for ranking structures in ST. So I think it wins :P

revandarklighter wrote: »

We end up being forced into the rank of "Vice Admiral" anyway. Even as Romulans. So why bother with that ranks we inhibit for... how long? 2 hours per character? 3?

Its a long standing request since the beta phase of this game to make the rank customizable, which istnt a big deal.
Because a lot of ppl, including myself, don't want to be rear admiral upper, lower, right, left or middle half or vice admiral or anything admiral.
They want to be CAPTAINS like those Idols some of us have seen in those people commanding Spaceships in that tv show, more and more unrelated to this game, called star trek.

Funny I never have heard that anyone was addressed as "rear admiral lowe half" in the series....

It is a big deal actually and they've stated as such. It's not a simple thing to alter every conversation/system in the game to use the title (not rank) systems that may or may not exist yet (IIRC back in the day dstahl did say he would like it but the system wasn't there or somethin of the sorts).

dragonsbrethren · May 2014

Yeah, I really just want to be acknowledged as Captain/Commander in the dialogue. It's hardly the most important thing they could add, but letting us pick our title would be great.

revandarklighter · May 2014

askray wrote: »

It is a big deal actually and they've stated as such. It's not a simple thing to alter every conversation/system in the game to use the title (not rank) systems that may or may not exist yet (IIRC back in the day dstahl did say he would like it but the system wasn't there or somethin of the sorts).

That is and always was a lie.
There is the script attached to the rank. We can see that in the foundry dialogs and this is what ensures the we are addressed in the rank tied to the level in every mission.
They wouldn't have to go through all the dialog, outside the new fe they would not have to change A SINGEL LINE if dialog. They have to change the script. That's 5 minutes work. To tie it to a costumisation option may be an hour of work. That's it.

dareau · May 2014

revandarklighter wrote: »

Funny I never have heard that anyone was addressed as "rear admiral lower half" in the series....

Look at "RALH Tuvok" in the current FE... Nobody in game mentions the rest of the rank, they all address him as "Admiral". Which is a common military tradition - unless there is a pressing reason (aka dress-down or conflict of rank), most "staff" ranks never are addressed by their full title, it's Admiral or General...

And it was probably like that on TV, too. I wasn't paying attention to the number(s) of pips the various Admirals wore on their uniforms, we just knew "Admiral", as is common in Military parlance...

I didn't jump in here to argue rank, semantics, and/or "canon". I just mentioned that in the time period between the filming of ToS (60s) and the filming of TMP (70s), the Navy "retired" Commodore as an official rank, returning it to it's "traditional" use as the title given to the Captain (O6) placed in charge of a flotilla of ships.

If one researches Military Rank just a little bit, for a period of time immediately after the retirement of Commodore rank, the Navy used only 3 Admiral grades, Rear, Vice, Admiral. During this time period, immediately upon promotion from Captain to Admiral, the officer in question would immediately begin wearing two stars, even though they would be paid as if they only had one, and a "true" two star could override the "paid as a one star"... O6 Captains who were placed in charge of their flotilla would temporarily wear the "One Star Admiral" trappings...

Eventually, most likely from much pressure by the "other" branches of service, the Navy was "forced" to make all their O7 "One Star" Admiral's wear only one star, and to keep Commodore as an active title for Captains, they formalized the "RALH - RAUH" stuff, and while Captain's could call themselves Commodore, they lost access to the One Star Trappings... Which is where we are today.

Now, whether Canon Trek ever followed this progression or not is a whole different debate. All I know is that here in STO we have this progression...

artan42 · May 2014

Trek also addresses Lieutenant Commanders as Lieutenants and Commanders interchangeably, Ensigns as Lieutenants, and Ensigns as Crewmen. That's not to even mention the mess that is O'Brian's pips vs. his ranks.

As I said earlier only two officers were ever seen with pips that indicated a RA LH; Mark Jameson and Gregory Quinn, both were called Admiral, they may have been costumed incorrectly for all we know and intended to be RA / RA UH's rather than Commodores / RA LHs.

colonelmarik wrote: »

All they really need to do is make a TITLE we can choose that says "Commodore." I think that would satisfy most people until they can figure out a way to change the actual rank title.

This would be the best solution, maybe for defeating the Doomsday Machine.

askray · May 2014

revandarklighter wrote: »

That is and always was a lie.
There is the script attached to the rank. We can see that in the foundry dialogs and this is what ensures the we are addressed in the rank tied to the level in every mission.
They wouldn't have to go through all the dialog, outside the new fe they would not have to change A SINGEL LINE if dialog. They have to change the script. That's 5 minutes work. To tie it to a costumisation option may be an hour of work. That's it.

So they would just have to change the system (ie "script") that uses <rank> to instead us <title>

Okay now what about the systems that pull said script to actually tell what your rank is? How would those still work? Think your estimate of how long it'd take is a bit off...

captz1pp · May 2014

If not Commodore, than maybe rear admiral 1st & 2nd class.

odyssey47 · May 2014

Then we could call Tuvok a commodore, which is obviously the best reason to change it.

captz1pp wrote: »

If not Commodore, than maybe rear admiral 1st & 2nd class.

How about Admiral, junior grade? lol

senatorvreenak · May 2014

Rear Admiral Lower Half and Upper Half should be changed to Commodore and Rear Admiral respectively, simply for the reason of of the former sounding completely stupid alone. :P

artan42 · May 2014

Also full ten levels per rank, not five.

suggestion name change Rear Admiral

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