This, and not any particular opaqueness of the system, is why your metrics are showing people not allocating skills until level 50: Because any attempt to do so is guaranteed to result in a costly permanent mistake, particularly when you don't even know what ship you're going to be flying.
At minimum, make the respec guy we pay a metric assload for at Starbase T5 free or for FC. I have specifically not bothered to construct that at all because I simply cannot justify paying 4 million minerals for the dubious "privilege" of paying 500 Zen a respec, something I can do anywhere.
I'm still lugging around S6 skills because I dislike paying to change them...
But my take on it is a bit different. I'm not so opposed to paying to respec, I'm opposed to both the cost and currency.
Firstly, changing skills is an ingame action, and should cost an ingame currency. Respec should not be paid for with Zen, it should be paid for with Dilithium. Then the question is not if I am going to spend $5 to respec, the question is will I spend X days to respec. That matters, at least to me, and I'm fairly certain quite a number of people out there.
Once that change is made, then the question changes to, 'how many days should it take my admiral to take those refresher courses'
pardon the sudden lack of grammar... my shift keys died....
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Personally, I would be happy with 1 free skill respec at 50 and lower the cost from 500 to 200 zen. I honestly was shocked to see the cost considering it costs twice as much as a name change. Even if skill respecs aren't free completely, just 1 free respec per character and a lower price would go a long way.
Well it is the logical consequence to the current changes.
Making the trait respec free, making the rep passives changeable any time, making it possible to switch the ship any time and the ships load outs any time serves ultimately one purpose: to be able to quickly adapt your game play to certain situations or even just change it because of being bored.
But the still fixed skill tree still is kind of in the way of it. It seems kind of obvious that this is the next logical step, but since cryptic is kind of in odds with logic that doesnt say its coming.
Also I want to stress: Respec tokens are way to expensive.
You get a free respec every time you get promoted. You need more than that? Do you really need to be respec'ing your toon constantly?
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
At least to people who level their toons up while being a gold. You get one respec token per rank, for a total of 5 if you're a gold from toon's creation till he hits VA.
And the majority of content can be beaten with a "generalist" build, aka no skill over 6...
Therefore, not being condesending or anything, but if you "choose" to min-max for the current content, finding that later content exploits the holes in said build and removes your "easy mode OP-ness", it's nobody's fault but yours. Either adapt and play around those holes, or spend the money to respec to either a generalist build (and be the last respec you really "should" need), or be prepared to have holes in the next batch of content...
I mean, don't the die hard PvPers have dedicated PvP builds that they hate grinding rep with because it's a PvP oriented min-max build that has a ton of holes against PvE content?
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I PvP and win with my old, nothing over 6 generalsit build that still has no Inertial Dampers, Kinetic Resist, and wasted a ton of points in Subspace Decompiler that no longer effect my phasers (I used to also use Viral a ton in PvP... there was a time when I used it more than grav well)
Not everybody min maxes every thing. some of us just win.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
They should be free, change as many times as you want. We change "traits" willy nilly. We change ships at a drop of a hat in sector space. The theme lately is not to force players to make "hard" choices. Skill tree choices might be considered "hard", and scare off the casual gamer. "
I've seen so many new free players get trapped with bad skill placement because they don't yet understand the game. Sure they can go earn dil to turn into zen, but in the meantime they have to play with a jacked up character, which is no fun. It's time to make skill respecs free like traits.
I've seen so many new free players get trapped with bad skill placement because they don't yet understand the game. Sure they can go earn dil to turn into zen, but in the meantime they have to play with a jacked up character, which is no fun. It's time to make skill respecs free like traits.
Yes, we can't expect new players to learn or ask questions. After all, a free repect after each promotion is clearly not enough.
Only subs get free respecs after each promotion. Free players do not.
Ah! I didn't realize it was a sub perk.
Ok, how about this: Put a mission at the Academy akin to going back to school. After mission completion you can respec your toon. :P
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Ok, how about this: Put a mission at the Academy akin to going back to school. After mission completion you can respec your toon. :P
Remember, we are trying to reduce effort in general, that might be considered a grind by newer players.
[/SARCASM OFF] I like the idea of one maybe two missions top earn a respect. But then again, you can just earn dilithium/zen and pay for a respect like a grown up.
Remember, we are trying to reduce effort in general, that might be considered a grind by newer players.
[/SARCASM OFF] I like the idea of one maybe two missions top earn a respect. But then again, you can just earn dilithium/zen and pay for a respect like a grown up.
Well, if they can't spend 5 minutes on an Academy training exercise... :rolleyes:
Honestly, your SKILLS shouldn't be that easy to respec. If this emulated real life (and yes, I know this isn't real life, just a game, but go with me here), you'd have to train to improve or learn new skills. That takes EFFORT. Now, I can see changing TRAITs on the fly. Just because you have a certain trait doesn't necessarily mean that you'd use it in every given situation.
But I'm beginning to like the idea of "training" at the Academy to learn/improve Skills, maybe even get some new Traits out of the deal.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
maybe they should give ONE free respec at 50 for everyone.
You know, they need some money for running up servers.
New Players should begin to learn how to play from startup and not at level 50.
Most only play PvE anyway and you can play this even without spending Skillpoints and with white MK X Weapons
I dead get the toke about 10 times ore more Tims . Cryptic make some change to the game ore skills and i need to change it for the new enemy ore just boff skill change. Cryptic need to add free token every session and wen makes major skill change.
maybe they should give ONE free respec at 50 for everyone.
You know, they need some money for running up servers.
New Players should begin to learn how to play from startup and not at level 50.
Most only play PvE anyway and you can play this even without spending Skillpoints and with white MK X Weapons
Yes but now whit the Undine thing has change. The enemy is gonna become more hard and you will need to have accurate skills to fight them Evan just for the mission ore foundry.
Will need to fight the Iconian after 2 expansion after all
Yes but now whit the Undine thing has change. The enemy is gonna become more hard and you will need to have accurate skills to fight them Evan just for the mission ore foundry.
Will need to fight the Iconian after 2 expansion after all
You choose to fight species 8472, you do not HAVE to.
It's not about grind, it's about accessibility. When the first piece of advice I give to new players is DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING, not because the skillsystem is incomprehensible or difficult to explain, but because the length of play between the time they start the game, and the time they actually get their real ship, is separated by such a great distance that there is absolutely NO way they could possibly plan that far ahead, especailly given the lack of knowledge for what is to come, the system is not really accessible.
Geko's proposal to dumb the skillsystem down WILL NOT CHANGE THIS. The reason the system is inaccessible is because any decision you make is PERMANENT, and therefore, must be made with complete and total understanding of the game AND what you plan to do up to 6 months from now to avoid TRIBBLE it up. THAT, and not the occasionally esoteric skill names is, what makes the system inaccessible, and destroying all existing skillset synergies will make it even worse.
Should c-store ships be free next? how about master keys for everyone!
On a serious note they've given us free re-specs before when they really mess with things And I'm sure they'll continue to, in the meantime everyone gets 3 characters now and can destroy/create them at will so, is the time to roll a new L50 toon worth 5 dollars when you find your skills lacking? or what about using the dil exchange, we can pay for it with X days in game even if it's indirect it would take 9 days at the last rate I knew of to get a respect token.
Should c-store ships be free next? how about master keys for everyone!
No, these things aren't accessibility issues. Being told by veterans "Don't allocate any skills except to these very safe choices, and some of what you think is safe really isn't" is an accessibility issue. Having to make a PERMANENT decision about what skills you're going to use BEFORE YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT SHIP YOU'RE GOING TO USE OR WHY, that is an accessibility issue. The skillsystem is firmly cart-before-horse.
How does the Undine changes anything?
I can beat them even with my first created Char and i specced him totally "wrong".
I didn't know anything about the game mechanics that time and just put points because everything sounded important
As long we don't get an AI, you don't really NEED a respec
I see respecs as an obstacle to new ship purchases. Say I'm spec'd for a dps build, that build won't be able to benefit from a Vesta class ship, since most the skill points are allocated to tactical and engineering. Now if I choose to fly a Vesta, I will consider a $5 respec to maximize the sci skills before I spend $25 or even $50 for the 3 pack. Thus, I will probably purchase neither and keep flying my tac oriented ship, because at this point in the thought process, I begin to question whether or not it will even like flying a sci ship. The sale of the new ship is stopped by the extra cost of a respec.
A new Ship doesn't mean that you have to respecc just to use it.
Your Playstyle is crucial.
If I have 0 points in grav and particle gens, the gav well 3 isn't that great. Also, if I have no points in torps and I shoot them out the back cuz I'm running hi aux, the won't do much either.
Point being, if skill points are allocated to abilities that aren't being used, then you can fly like Tom Paris, but your ship is still gimped.
Comments
At minimum, make the respec guy we pay a metric assload for at Starbase T5 free or for FC. I have specifically not bothered to construct that at all because I simply cannot justify paying 4 million minerals for the dubious "privilege" of paying 500 Zen a respec, something I can do anywhere.
But my take on it is a bit different. I'm not so opposed to paying to respec, I'm opposed to both the cost and currency.
Firstly, changing skills is an ingame action, and should cost an ingame currency. Respec should not be paid for with Zen, it should be paid for with Dilithium. Then the question is not if I am going to spend $5 to respec, the question is will I spend X days to respec. That matters, at least to me, and I'm fairly certain quite a number of people out there.
Once that change is made, then the question changes to, 'how many days should it take my admiral to take those refresher courses'
pardon the sudden lack of grammar... my shift keys died....
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Making the trait respec free, making the rep passives changeable any time, making it possible to switch the ship any time and the ships load outs any time serves ultimately one purpose: to be able to quickly adapt your game play to certain situations or even just change it because of being bored.
But the still fixed skill tree still is kind of in the way of it. It seems kind of obvious that this is the next logical step, but since cryptic is kind of in odds with logic that doesnt say its coming.
Also I want to stress: Respec tokens are way to expensive.
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At least to people who level their toons up while being a gold. You get one respec token per rank, for a total of 5 if you're a gold from toon's creation till he hits VA.
And the majority of content can be beaten with a "generalist" build, aka no skill over 6...
Therefore, not being condesending or anything, but if you "choose" to min-max for the current content, finding that later content exploits the holes in said build and removes your "easy mode OP-ness", it's nobody's fault but yours. Either adapt and play around those holes, or spend the money to respec to either a generalist build (and be the last respec you really "should" need), or be prepared to have holes in the next batch of content...
I mean, don't the die hard PvPers have dedicated PvP builds that they hate grinding rep with because it's a PvP oriented min-max build that has a ton of holes against PvE content?
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Not everybody min maxes every thing. some of us just win.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I've seen so many new free players get trapped with bad skill placement because they don't yet understand the game. Sure they can go earn dil to turn into zen, but in the meantime they have to play with a jacked up character, which is no fun. It's time to make skill respecs free like traits.
Mine Trap Supporter
Yes, we can't expect new players to learn or ask questions. After all, a free repect after each promotion is clearly not enough.
Only subs get free respecs after each promotion. Free players do not.
Mine Trap Supporter
Ah! I didn't realize it was a sub perk.
Ok, how about this: Put a mission at the Academy akin to going back to school. After mission completion you can respec your toon. :P
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
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Remember, we are trying to reduce effort in general, that might be considered a grind by newer players.
[/SARCASM OFF] I like the idea of one maybe two missions top earn a respect. But then again, you can just earn dilithium/zen and pay for a respect like a grown up.
Well, if they can't spend 5 minutes on an Academy training exercise... :rolleyes:
Honestly, your SKILLS shouldn't be that easy to respec. If this emulated real life (and yes, I know this isn't real life, just a game, but go with me here), you'd have to train to improve or learn new skills. That takes EFFORT. Now, I can see changing TRAITs on the fly. Just because you have a certain trait doesn't necessarily mean that you'd use it in every given situation.
But I'm beginning to like the idea of "training" at the Academy to learn/improve Skills, maybe even get some new Traits out of the deal.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
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You know, they need some money for running up servers.
New Players should begin to learn how to play from startup and not at level 50.
Most only play PvE anyway and you can play this even without spending Skillpoints and with white MK X Weapons
Yes but now whit the Undine thing has change. The enemy is gonna become more hard and you will need to have accurate skills to fight them Evan just for the mission ore foundry.
Will need to fight the Iconian after 2 expansion after all
You choose to fight species 8472, you do not HAVE to.
Geko's proposal to dumb the skillsystem down WILL NOT CHANGE THIS. The reason the system is inaccessible is because any decision you make is PERMANENT, and therefore, must be made with complete and total understanding of the game AND what you plan to do up to 6 months from now to avoid TRIBBLE it up. THAT, and not the occasionally esoteric skill names is, what makes the system inaccessible, and destroying all existing skillset synergies will make it even worse.
On a serious note they've given us free re-specs before when they really mess with things And I'm sure they'll continue to, in the meantime everyone gets 3 characters now and can destroy/create them at will so, is the time to roll a new L50 toon worth 5 dollars when you find your skills lacking? or what about using the dil exchange, we can pay for it with X days in game even if it's indirect it would take 9 days at the last rate I knew of to get a respect token.
I can beat them even with my first created Char and i specced him totally "wrong".
I didn't know anything about the game mechanics that time and just put points because everything sounded important
As long we don't get an AI, you don't really NEED a respec
A new Ship doesn't mean that you have to respecc just to use it.
Your Playstyle is crucial.
If I have 0 points in grav and particle gens, the gav well 3 isn't that great. Also, if I have no points in torps and I shoot them out the back cuz I'm running hi aux, the won't do much either.
Point being, if skill points are allocated to abilities that aren't being used, then you can fly like Tom Paris, but your ship is still gimped.
Again, free players do not get those free respecs. You get them because you have a LTS.
Mine Trap Supporter