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Mogai Hvy or Scimitar 3 pack
midntwolf
Member Posts: 22 Arc User
Ok I am a newly minted level 50 Romulan Tac officer and to celebrate I have decided to spend some money on the game. Right now I am deciding between a Mogai Heavy and a Scimitar bundle. Cost is important but I figure I can blow up to $70.
Ok here are my thoughts.
First I have decided to pick up the Valdore at the very least for the Console and likely the Vandal as well. This is $20 invested but I think probably well worth it in the long run so that leaves $50 to spend.
Now I really like the idea behind the Scimitar and ever since flying one briefly in the "First Contact" event I have wanted one. The issue is that I feel I would want/need all three so that is $50 right there. What I like about the Scimitar bundle is that it appears to be one of those ships/bundles that kind of does a little bit of everything. I mean I can build it with Cannons or Beams and be equally useful. Go all Tactical or delve into Science. Shield tank or hull tank. Pretend to be a Carrier. Pretty much just about everything and it is a ship I could fiddle and fiddle with to get a build I really enjoy (I AM NOT a min/maxer so fun is more important than best).
The thing about the Scimitar though is that I am not sure how useful the Valdore and Vandal consoles would be so I am not sure I will see an immediate advantage there. Also the main reason to buy the 3 pack is to use all the consoles from the set so adding yet more special consoles would probably gimp a Scimitar. Now this is not a big deal and not a deal breaker on buying the Scimitar because I plan on playing more than just a Scimitar if for no other reason than to add different challenges and change up the game play.
However, the fact that I am buying the Valdore got me looking into the Mogai Heavy Warbird. Now from what I have been reading, if I toss the Valdore console in with the Mogai Console for the bonus plus add on the leech, well I will end up with a pretty amazing ship though without the flexibility of build/plays style of the Scimitar bundle.
Additionally the cost goes way down, from $70 to $40 which is always a plus. Further going this direction can lead to a Fleet Mogai at a discount plus I understand the Fleet Requirement for the Fleet Mogai are rather low which would be a bonus.
So what do you all think? Which direction should I go?
Ok here are my thoughts.
First I have decided to pick up the Valdore at the very least for the Console and likely the Vandal as well. This is $20 invested but I think probably well worth it in the long run so that leaves $50 to spend.
Now I really like the idea behind the Scimitar and ever since flying one briefly in the "First Contact" event I have wanted one. The issue is that I feel I would want/need all three so that is $50 right there. What I like about the Scimitar bundle is that it appears to be one of those ships/bundles that kind of does a little bit of everything. I mean I can build it with Cannons or Beams and be equally useful. Go all Tactical or delve into Science. Shield tank or hull tank. Pretend to be a Carrier. Pretty much just about everything and it is a ship I could fiddle and fiddle with to get a build I really enjoy (I AM NOT a min/maxer so fun is more important than best).
The thing about the Scimitar though is that I am not sure how useful the Valdore and Vandal consoles would be so I am not sure I will see an immediate advantage there. Also the main reason to buy the 3 pack is to use all the consoles from the set so adding yet more special consoles would probably gimp a Scimitar. Now this is not a big deal and not a deal breaker on buying the Scimitar because I plan on playing more than just a Scimitar if for no other reason than to add different challenges and change up the game play.
However, the fact that I am buying the Valdore got me looking into the Mogai Heavy Warbird. Now from what I have been reading, if I toss the Valdore console in with the Mogai Console for the bonus plus add on the leech, well I will end up with a pretty amazing ship though without the flexibility of build/plays style of the Scimitar bundle.
Additionally the cost goes way down, from $70 to $40 which is always a plus. Further going this direction can lead to a Fleet Mogai at a discount plus I understand the Fleet Requirement for the Fleet Mogai are rather low which would be a bonus.
So what do you all think? Which direction should I go?
Post edited by midntwolf on
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--Scimi three-pack gets you the best console (secondary shields, which I swear by) AND the best DPS hull (Scimitar-class), plus the best scidestroyer hull (Tulwar-class). With the set, you're not going to really NEED the Valdore and Vandal consoles, but without the set you will.
Scimi set is generally slightly UP, UNLESS you have exotic-damage boosting skills and consoles. I've had a fairly well-specced PVE mirror ha'apax 1-shot by a Tulwar specced for exotic using the thalaron gun. What you do is fly up to a big enemy, or a pod of smaller enemies, tractor beam or grav well them, hit RSP, then hit the thalaron gun on a Tulwar. It's only good in PVE, and it needs a pretty finicky build for the regular weapons, but it is a TON of fun to see the green blast annihilate a pod of Borg spheres. Tulwars also make excellent scidestroyers, although the turn rate can be a bit of an issue.
The "best" scimis come in two breeds: Falchions specced for tanking and aux2bat FAW spam, and Scimitars specced for alphas with DHCs and turrets. Even before I got rep and fleet gear, my main's scimi could deal 40k DPS alpha strikes over 5 seconds, with a DHC/turret build, and could rip apart ISE without any deaths if I hit the right buffs at the right times. A fleetmate has a Falchion with FAW spam and aux2bat that ripped apart my scimi, a Voth Palisade ship specced for tanking, and a Mogh in a 3-on-1 challenge. Top DPS in a scimi is currently 83k DPS in a run of ISE. My scimi, still using the thalaron set for nostalgia reasons, regularly hits 10k DPS even with a rubbish PUG team.
For invincibility, versatility, and sheer, raw, terrifying firepower, I recommend the Scimitar line.
--Mogai is probably a better buy if you like to find a build and stick to it. Fleet Mogai is a heavy but powerful escort, and has nasty alphas. Run it as a basic heavy escort with the battlecloak as an alpha booster. Think...fleet patrol escort, with battlecloak. It's a tough, powerful escort and the beam weapon is a killer; spend a few points in exotic damage skills to boost the special console.
No Mogai or Fleet Mogai can stand up to a good Scimitar, though. Scimitars are tougher, more powerful, and have better cloaks (even without the shielded-cloak console). A good Scimi will tear apart a Mogai in PVP.
--Short version: Scimitar 3-pack is a great buy if you like being able to utterly annihilate the opposition in at least 3 different ways with hilarious ease (once you've learned how to pilot the damn thing; they are clunky at first). Mogai retrofit is a powerful and heavy-duty escort but lacks the sheer survivability and raw firepower of a Scimitar.
Hope this helps.
It actually kinda does. Honestly this is about what I have been getting from my reading with the Mogai being a great destroyer-ish warbird that is a good all arounder but with limited build options while the Scimitar is a versital beast with a few glaring and prehaps annoying flaws you can learn to work around once you get somewhat skilled.
I have to admit the appeal of the Scimitar pack is there just seems so many different ways you can build them and still be effective as long as you aren't a min/maxer focusing on DPS (which only kinda leaves one build if you are that focused).
Yeah, that's a good summary.
Whatever you choose, enjoy it!
If a C-store ship costs like some 2500 zen or less, you bet you bottom dollar I am gonna grind for them because they can be obtained rather quickly, as for high dollar 3 packs I usually spend my money instead.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Dude, the Scimi is NOT all about alphas. Other warbirds are (except maybe DD), but the Scimi is better for sustained forward DPS.
Fleet Daeinos is UP especially compared to a fleet Mogai or scimitar, and is the only LTS ship that ISN'T worth it.
Yes, many PVP scimis are people who don't have the first clue what they're doing thinking that the ship is literally invincible. There are also guys like one of my fleet buddies, who, with a FAW Falchion, ripped apart a gimped-out Voth Palisade, my alpha-striking cannon scimi, and a fleet Mogh piloted by another PVPer buddy.
The important thing is that the Scimitar has at LEAST two broad workable DPS builds, a cool niche PVE build, and a not-to-be-sniffed-at scidestroyer build (also for PVE, as Scimi lacks the turn for scidestroyering in PVP) that can tank effectively as well. Fleet Mogai has only 1 really good build, and it all hinges on that mogai retrofit console (which admittedly is a nice console, but still...).
Scimitar is OP in the hands of any sensible pilot with a couple weeks of experience with it. Mogai...is a GOOD ship. Really good. A half-decent pilot can tear up about half of all Scimitar pilots (the aforementioned idiots who can't make a good build for beans), but that same half-decent Mogai pilot with a week or two to break in his Scimitar will nuke the living daylights out of 99% of other pilots.
Essentially, Mogai is a one-trick pony. Good trick, OP compared to most others, but just the one really good build.
Scimitar is OP and versatile. FAW spam, DHC alphas...they're good for anything, really. I've seen at least 4 broadly workable builds, and more than 20 minor variations of those builds that kicked serious booty.
Mogai is cheaper, sure. But piloted right, the Scimitar will kick the snot out of it.
That said, I firmly your Scimitars are better off with none of those Consoles it comes with. More critical console space to enhance the build and not rely on gimmicks on cooldowns, or leave you stationary.
And any good Warbird that is played right will tear apart anything with its alpha strike. Fleet Ha'feh, Dhelan, T'Varo, Mogai, Scimitar, Ar'kif... you name it. They're all Overpowered Warbirds and will make short work of a target.
I keep reading "alpha strike" and i dont know exactly what you guys mean.
My guess is that an "alpha strike" is when you approach your target cloaked, you decloak and you throw away all your weapons and then cloak again??
Now, it's when you send all your monies to me :cool:
If the choice is really between the Mogai and the Scimitar, I'd encourage the Mogai Heavy Warbird retrofit. You're already going to buy the Valdore, so, you get a skin and console synergy in what many people consider the best native 2-piece warbird set. Add to that greater quality of life; the Mogai is just going to be more fun to fly around - and while large - it won't get stuck in terrain/scenary/other ships while navigating around. It also has more of that iconic "I am a romulan warbird" vibe (whereas the Reman-design scimitar is an aerodynamic brick with wings that just kind of pretends).
I see Scimitars popcorning in instances all the time. Not everyone can have those highly touted 'master builds'. with the Mogai, you get excellent bridge officer seat synergy and loads of engineering consoles (especially on the fleet version, which won't be too hard to get after you've obtained the retrofit) will grant you a lot of staying power. I don't know about you, but in grouped content I like feeling capable and dependable over getting huge damage numbers (besides, while dead, your DPS is zero - Scimitar or not).
So, yeah, my recommendation is the Mogai because it'd be the most rewarding. There are times where you will see Scimitars be awed, and maybe regret not picking one after all - especially if you're fine with large slow-turning ships. But you'll probably always be comfortable with the Mogai.
Attack pattern Alpha is a alpha strike add that with battle cloak and ta da you have a very powerful alpha strike.
I my self love the 3-pack scimi I have my Rommie tac in it and love it, I also use it on my other roms as well and if you have access to a fleet and want a bit more turn rate I recommend adding one of those Eng. consoles but that is just me, I also use the Valdore shield console on my scimi and again I love it it gives that extra bit of shield heal that you may want, and I will admit I am one of those who may not have the best builds on my Scimi but I have fun in it and tear stuff up in PvE.
I ended up going with the Scimitar bundle because like someone else mentioned, 2000 zen should be doable in a fairly short grind
I did want to comment on you above statement though, the turn rate on a Scimitar with the console bonus isn't half bad. I am getting 16.7 with the console bonus, 1 blue RCS and skilled for maunverability. That isn't bad at all and I perfectly satisfied especially since I am not a PvPer.
I also rather like the powerslide by the way and I am not sure why so many people complain about it. In fact I use it to get into positions. Just point your Scimitar off to the right or left of an enemy, full impluse up and then when you get just about beside him, turn off your engine, do a hard turn and powerslide right behind him with your nose point forward for great cannon action.
I am also using the Falchion and it definately exceeded my expectations being able to tank well which still putting out the hurt. The Falchion with the same Blue Mk X great I was using on my Ha'apax and Mirror Dhelan tanks twice as good as the Ha'apax and kills about three times as fast as the Dhehlan.
Yes if you can stand to be patient for awhile, it is fairly easy to grind up for the other cheaper ships.
Heck I have gotten 4 romulan C-store ships this way, and currently working on the DSD 3 pack in the mean time.
Normally I buy 3 pack deals with my own money, but I don't have tons of needed stuff with my current dilithium, so I can muster the wait this time around.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I forgot that. And this is one of the reasons the scimitar is so op lol. 16 turn rate for a ship like the scimitar.. are you kidding me?? of course, everybody buys the whole pack, but i wonder if cryptic was actuallly thinking when they put that console in that ship. If i can get more than 10 turn rate in a big ship like a scimitar, im good to go. Imagine 16+ and RCS consoles. It makes not sense at all, but well a "few" ships on STO has no sense at all lol.
I just dont like ships so straight "load and kill", i use to like more challenge in my ship. And i dont like ships SO big. If the scimitar had the right size, just a little smaller, maybe i will use it (i have the scimitar since i started playing, but i NEVER use it lol). Nah, i dont think that will make any difference. Sometimes STO is not designed for bigs with those sizes.
I have to be honest, I am unfortunately finding the Scimitar a bit boring to play at least while playing the story missions. I was all obsessed with turn rate but mostly find myself putting the ship in reverse and acting more like a mobile turret than actually flying at a high speed and actually getting into any sort of manuver flight. I mean by putting it into reverse I actually get a very fast piviot rate, more than enough to keep just about any NPC enemy lined up in my frontal arc no matter where they try to go. Also even the blue quality drones seem to just level enemy NPC ships without my assistance. I can't imagine how good the purple quality ones will end up being. With them acting as distractions, I have even less reason to do more than piviot in a fight.
I will say, I find all the consoles alot more useful than I thought I would and use all of them all the time. The one that allows my shields to be up all the time is probably my favorite.
Anyway, like you mentioned, even upping the mission difficulty doesn't offer my Falchion much challenge or excitment and I can't imagine what it would be like if I had better equipment than Blue Exchange bought Tier X gear.
Anyway, if I convert all my Dil, I am only about 12k Dil away from buying the Mogai. I might have to grab that ship just to get any challenge out of my gameplay hehe.
Note: The Falchion really does feel OP. There is just no comparison between it and my freebie Ha'apax Advanced or my Mirror Dhelan. Now granted I am not running a Module set on my Ha'apax Advanced or the Dhelan but I have zero doubt I could take off the module set on my Falchion and still totally outclass either ship using the same low level gear.
All but 500 points that I have spent has been through the dil exchange. I have bought character slots, BOFF slots, bank slots, inventory slots, DOFF slots, Vesta 3 pack, Valdore, Arkif and Scimmy 3 pack.
People complain about the slide tend to be people transferring from faster more nimble ships and aren't used to the play style of the larger ships. I am used to managing larger ships, from playing in the Oddy and the Vo'quv carrier. I know how to manage my turning by managing my speed, the slower the speed the tighter the turn.
1. $25: Tac Scim only. (The 3 piece set is not worth the money that I spent and the other scims, you will never use.)
2. $50: Buying keys will get your about 100 million EC.
3. Plasmonic Leach: 20 Million
4. Marian: 40 million
5. Technicians: 40 ish million or you get get them from B'Tran.
Or you can Farm the EC and use the $50 buck for something nobler like beer.
If you Romulan is Kling (Doffs are more expensive on the kling sid.e
1. $25: Tac Scim only
2. $10: The nauscian ship that has the leach.
3. Marian: $60 million
5. Technicians; 40 ish million
The valore console is nice for PVP and No Win scenario.
FYI. I bought the legacy pack and the 3 piece Scim and if I had to do it over, I would have not bought the legacy pack because the only thing that I use is the valore console some times but not very often. And the 3 Scim consoles just sit in my bank.
The console from the valdore is, in my opinion, the most powerful universal console in the game. The more damage you put out with whatever ship, the more the shield heals you get from it are. It makes a scimitar that doesn't look tanky enough on paper, to more than tanky enough for most folks. You will not regret that console unless you don't try to do damage, then it's a waste.
I have found the Scimitar can be made to have extremenely high DPS in both A2B and Non-A2B setups, and it has enough turn rate when cycling cloaks to make using DHCs effective, but overal DPS potential with beam arrays seems slightly higher. Since it's got such high DPS potential already, it makes using DHCs effective. In that respect, it is flexible enough to go beam arrays or DHCs.
The only major reason it is so effective, is because it is using a broken mechanics in which ANY form of attack coming out of you or a pet can trigger it, fix this issue and it is still a decent console.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Actually over powered ship
The Scimitar/Falchion can be too, even better than the Mogai, but it needs a bigger investment in resources, so I would only recommend it if you got the cash to go A2B with it.
Now this, I agree with. Warbird in general are OP.
Scimitars ARE better without the set, but a well-specced Tulwar can 1-shot a Borg cube with the thalaron gun. Takes a bit of fancy piloting, but I've seen it done. Overall, though, ditch the set and get some spire tac consoles for DPS.
Glad to hear that you made a choice and are having fun with the Scimitar's quirks (and yeah, I like the powerslide trick too. Feels like an extreme skateboarding trick).
And agreed, the Scimitar line is hilariously OP when flown by a smart pilot (as you seem to be). If you want a real challenge outside of pvp, just grind for the Mogai retrofit and prepare for an alpha strike-heavy strategy.
Doffs are overrated, players should focus on core build first the get doffs and bling http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=uncommonbudget20k_0 that will do 20k in infected space elite, energy type not important, and deflector ect can literally be picked up of the floor.
A2B is used by a lot of less-than-skilled players as a crutch. Yes, it works quite well... but it requires no thought or creativity.
Your build is interesting... but insanely squishy. DPS is grand, but you do zero DPS when dead.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing...no defensive abilities what-so-ever. Looks like that build 100% relies on cloaking up, darting in and laying out as much smack down as possible hoping for a kill, then cloaking and getting out of dodge quick. Honestly in my very limited experience, it almost seems like somehow fitting the Tulwar's console that allows shields up while cloaked would be a huge benefit on this build for assisting with that escape.
Anyway, it might be a great build, but definitely not the play style I enjoy. Personally I prefer something more tactical and a bit more interactive which is probably why I an running my Falchion, not my Scimitar. Heck I am even thinking of giving the Tulwar a spin and seeing how going more science plays, maybe even going with a full beam build over cannon just for the hell of it hehe. Probably end up gimp but experimenting is part of the fun.