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Armor slots for ships.
disposeableh3r0
Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
I remember not too long ago there was talk about giving cruisers a designated slot just for armor. Now we know they decided not to go that rough in favor of the command abilities, but I was thinking it would be a neat addition to all ships and may enhance strategic complexity.
So I was thinking what would it look like? And how would a ship benefit? How would the existing armor system change?
Here is my take.
Each ship would gain a extra equipment slot just for armor, all ships would come equipped with some basic form of armor.
The Items that you could slot would function like shields do. The item would determine things like inertia rating, hull hp, hull repair rate, basic resistances, and come with mods based on rarity and perhaps unique abilities where appropriate. each ship type would come with an effectiveness mod similar to a shield mod.
There would still be armor consoles but they would change in function to PLATINGS and ALLOYS.
Plantings would offer more direct bonuses to specific damage resistance types just as armor consoles function now.
Alloys would offer slight damage resistance boosts and a stat boost of some kind. For example a mod to increase repair rate or hull hp, or even add a chance ability.
Mods could be drawn for the pool of existing hull related things like [sif] or [rep] and maybe add some new ones as needed.
Basically I would be looking for a version of shields but directly related to your hull.
I was thinking something more akin to what shields currently are. So you would not get extra slots if you were previously slotting armor consoles because those consoles, while slightly different in function, would be necessary to give you the same overall effectiveness.
As I see it your armor slot would be something like
Armor MK I
50k hull hp - Determined by a modifier assigned to ship type. So a cruiser may be 1.0 and an escort may be 0.9
5% damage reduction - Or something to that effect similar to the shield absorption stats.
+50% hull regeneration - Similar to shield regen would be 50% of what ever base regeneration is.
+.5 inertia - Because heavier armor should have a drawback
Then your armor consoles would give you most of your large scale resistances or other effects.
So you would have consoles that exist pretty much as they do now and some that add other effects like healing boosts or damage reduction or HP increases.
There would need to be types of armor that offer different functions like.
A heavy armor that has high hull numbers but low healing values and a high inertia cost
A medium armor that has lower hull numbers but a better healing value and a better inertia cost
And a light armor that has low hull numbers but a high healing value and a good inertia cost
and probably a vanilla version that is good across all fields.
The Idea being if you want uber HP you're going to pay in terms of maneuverability and healing effectiveness while a ligher armor leaves you more vulnerable to damage but heals faster.
Youcould even go farther and add special effects to the types such as saying that light armor gives you near immunity to energy weapon damage for a short time with a stacking resistance debuff that makes you weaker the longer your in combat, simulating ablative armor (how ablative armor would actually work).
But in general your armor slot would not give you any extra protection it would mostly determine the effectiveness of your hull HP similar to how shields determine your shield HP.
Thoughts?
So I was thinking what would it look like? And how would a ship benefit? How would the existing armor system change?
Here is my take.
Each ship would gain a extra equipment slot just for armor, all ships would come equipped with some basic form of armor.
The Items that you could slot would function like shields do. The item would determine things like inertia rating, hull hp, hull repair rate, basic resistances, and come with mods based on rarity and perhaps unique abilities where appropriate. each ship type would come with an effectiveness mod similar to a shield mod.
There would still be armor consoles but they would change in function to PLATINGS and ALLOYS.
Plantings would offer more direct bonuses to specific damage resistance types just as armor consoles function now.
Alloys would offer slight damage resistance boosts and a stat boost of some kind. For example a mod to increase repair rate or hull hp, or even add a chance ability.
Mods could be drawn for the pool of existing hull related things like [sif] or [rep] and maybe add some new ones as needed.
Basically I would be looking for a version of shields but directly related to your hull.
I was thinking something more akin to what shields currently are. So you would not get extra slots if you were previously slotting armor consoles because those consoles, while slightly different in function, would be necessary to give you the same overall effectiveness.
As I see it your armor slot would be something like
Armor MK I
50k hull hp - Determined by a modifier assigned to ship type. So a cruiser may be 1.0 and an escort may be 0.9
5% damage reduction - Or something to that effect similar to the shield absorption stats.
+50% hull regeneration - Similar to shield regen would be 50% of what ever base regeneration is.
+.5 inertia - Because heavier armor should have a drawback
Then your armor consoles would give you most of your large scale resistances or other effects.
So you would have consoles that exist pretty much as they do now and some that add other effects like healing boosts or damage reduction or HP increases.
There would need to be types of armor that offer different functions like.
A heavy armor that has high hull numbers but low healing values and a high inertia cost
A medium armor that has lower hull numbers but a better healing value and a better inertia cost
And a light armor that has low hull numbers but a high healing value and a good inertia cost
and probably a vanilla version that is good across all fields.
The Idea being if you want uber HP you're going to pay in terms of maneuverability and healing effectiveness while a ligher armor leaves you more vulnerable to damage but heals faster.
Youcould even go farther and add special effects to the types such as saying that light armor gives you near immunity to energy weapon damage for a short time with a stacking resistance debuff that makes you weaker the longer your in combat, simulating ablative armor (how ablative armor would actually work).
But in general your armor slot would not give you any extra protection it would mostly determine the effectiveness of your hull HP similar to how shields determine your shield HP.
Thoughts?
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Post edited by disposeableh3r0 on
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Comments
I did say for all ships...... Second line too.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
I totally agree on this!
Your idea would make a very effective countermeasure to power creep, just think about it, you're in a scimitar, have only 1 ENG and 1 SCI slot available for universal consoles and now ... well, plasmonic leech fits, assimilated module fits, and then ... finished, because you dont want to sacrifice TAC slots :P
This would give less-tac console ships much more value - awesome idea
Also, this would hopefully cause people to use Armor/Shield modifying consoles (Science has a few quite useful ones for that), and adress some of that 'Omg Bleedthrough OP, nerf PLX'.
That would be true if the armor console provided a benifit on top of the current hull numbers.
AS I said I was thinking something more akin to what shields currently are. so you would not get extra slots if you were previously slotting armor consoles because those consoles, while slightly different in function, would be necessary to give you the same overall effectiveness.
As I see it your armor slot would be something like
Armor MK I
50k hull hp - Determined by a modifier assigned to ship type. So a cruiser may be 1.0 and an escort may be 0.9
5% damage reduction - Or something to that effect similar to the shield absorption stats.
+50% hull regeneration - Similar to shield regen would be 50% of what ever base regeneration is.
+.5 inertia - Because heavier armor should have a drawback
Then your armor consoles would give you most of your large scale resistances or other effects.
So you would have consoles that exist prety much as they do now and some that add other effects like healing boosts or damage reduction or HP increases.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Also, in the past (before F2P Dumb Down of the Skill System), you had to spec into the ship type, to get speed, agility and hull strength, with lower tiers of the same 'track' factoring into the higher ones. Those 'Ship Skills' (which were annoying!) are now fully applied all the time.
Escorts are already pretty tanky with their speed defense/dodge. Adding Amor slots to free up Engineering Console slots for other consoles is only going to drag out conflicts where noone wins.
For PvE purposes, more defense/resist isn't needed.
For PvP purposes, you're going to find the queues pretty dead because noone wants to spend hours on end in a match pew pew'ng at each to no effect.
Universal Consoles are optional, not necessary and when you do use them, the tradeoff is you're taking up a console slot that might be used for it's intended console type.
Adding Armor Console slots just to free up other console slots so you can put more Uni-Consoles in is just a bad idea, imo.
Example armors avaible:
common mk 1 hull armor plating reduce all damage taken to hull by 1%, increase hull integrity by 10
very rare mk 12 hull spine armor plating and reinforcements reduce all damage taken to hull by 15%, increase hull integrity by 40.
common counterweight auguments mk 1 increase turn rate by 1% defence rate by 1%.
very rare servomechanical counterweight auguments mk 12 increase turn rate by 20% defence rate by 10% reduce gravity pull effects 50% by reducing weight.
common kinetic absorbers mk 1 reduce damage from push, pull ,kinetic and energy damage effects by absorbing 1% damage and trandfering 10% of energy to shields.
very rare hive mind AI controled nanite kinetic absorbers mk 12 reduce damage from push, pull ,kinetic and energy damage effects by absorbing 10% damage and trandfering 20% of energy to shields.
common gravimetric hull polarizer mk 1 increase effect and strenght of exotic particles by turning hull in to a lens focusing focusing wasted energy back in deflector dish +5% exotic particle damage and effect.
very rare gravimetric cohesive shield to hull polarizer mk 12 increase effect and strenght of exotic particles by turning shield in to a cage gathering and hull in to a lens focusing wasted energy back in deflector dish +45% exotic particle effect and damage.
The player base here wouldnt put up with it though
Seems like you are missing the point. Also, Transfer Energy to Shield? So even MORE passive healing, as if we don't already have enough overpowered, automatic garbage taking over, so people can focus on 'moar deepeees'?
There are consoles now that resist damage or increase mobility/defense rating. We need LESS passive repair, LESS easymode resistances, and especially LESS 'Defense' on ships standing still.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
I say no to dedicated Armor Console slots. The same as people asking for Universal Console slots. No to that also.
Unique slot, with a modifier to effectiveness based on what kind of ship is using the armor. Escorts would probably get the lowest modifier value. (Unless you're willing to really sacrifice turn rate for greater protection, or something.)
There wouldn't be any special extra functionalities, just that armor would have its own slot and would be modified in effectiveness based on what type of ship is using it.
Armor was certainly treated more like shields than a special "optional" system in the shows, like consoles are here. Case in point, NX-01 Enterprise. That's all it had originally; armored hull plating and a deflector array. Starfleet later went back to using hull armoring, such as in the Defiant and Prometheus classes.
Whis is what I said in my original post.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
In my experience, those who want cruisers to be easier to kill will usually want to deny them a commensurate DPS increase.
In this particular situation, it seems that the proposal would make, in general, everyone harder to "pop," including escorts. While I do not know if an explicit armor slot would in fact be a wise thing to add, I do think it may be worth at least some serious consideration as a possibility.
Creating more mudflation by adding a whole new level of gear itemization doesn't counter powercreep. It enhances it.
Even your Reworked/Clarified still benefits Tactical Heavy Ships the most, which, in the current Meta, have no RIGHT for additional sustain. Hell, as long as people don't fly them as 'Park them in front of the spawnpoint', but stay moving, most of them don't even get hit in the first place, so they don't NEED sustain, unless the pilot plays by bashing his fists on the keyboard and derps into a PBAoE or Plasma Cloud. Which is a case of 'Watch where you fly, serves you right' then.
I had the freedom to only quote the part where you want what is basically a mashup of multiple currently available Defensive Consoles mashed into a new composite item.
Want more passive repair rate? Console - Engineering - SIF Generator or http://sto.gamepedia.com/Advanced_Engineering_Armor_Consoles, more specific, the +HullRep bonused ones.
Want more resistance to a certain, very specific damage Type: Oh boy, where to start. Alloys -> Only Kinetic, or Kin/All Energy (Aka what is generally called 'Neutronium' at max rank). Armors -> Up to 4 Energy types, no Kinetic. Platings -> 2 Energy Types, with a higher bonus, the less resists are given by a single Console. Alloys are also available from the Fleet Dilithium Mine Holding.
Want more Hull HP? The Fleet Dilithium Mine provides Consoles with that. In a Variant that comes with either Resistances http://sto.gamepedia.com/Advanced_Engineering_Armor_Consoles or Turnrate http://sto.gamepedia.com/Advanced_Engineering_RCS_Consoles
Want a 'Chance Ability' aka 'Proc'? Fleet Embassy Provides! http://sto.gamepedia.com/Threat-Scaling_Science_Consoles There are Hull and Shield Versions. One just has to give up a possible Plasma Proc (ignores shields) for the repair proc.
So as you see, we already HAVE what you want. If you don't use them, to fit Universal Consoles instead, it is YOUR choice to NOT use them. So see, you even get a 'Trade off' like the 0.5 Inertia Drawback. Just that in this case, the Trade off is actually meaningful.
In the current Meta, at least in the mainly played content (PvE), an escort would not give a damn about an inertia increase. Also, ever seen a cruiser 'Powerslide'? They might not start moving into the new direction right away, but you can make them turn somewhat well (at least to keep an enemy in the broadside Arc). So while the ship starts going into the old direction for a bit, the ship can still be turned towards the target. Very helpful for tactical ships, because that means that they can, when piloted by a skilled pilot, keep up firing for a longer time. What drawback indeed.
Unless the current stats that are 'given' passives are FULLY removed, your suggestion just breaks more than it would do good. I hereby repeat: We need LESS passive Sustain, and MORE from Bridge Officer Powers once more, so people need to actually watch what they do again.
What your missing is that the passives granted are REPLACING the current passives.
Your ENTIRE hull HP pool would be granted by your armor.
Your ENTIRE passive hull regeneration and heal effectiveness would be granted by armor.
Armor WOULD NOT grant significant damage resistance only a SMALL damage reduction.
The effectiveness of the armor would be determined by a modifier similar to shields. So a 'scort WOULD NOT get the same benefit from slotting a high hull armor a cruiser or science vessel would.
The existing armor consoles WOULD STILL exist and be necessary if you wanted higher levels of damage reduction. Or indeed changed to offer different benefits as the case may be.
I really can't be any clearer, and I get the feeling you see this as some kind of attack on they way you want to play. Either that or you have made your mind up that change is bad and don't want to understand.
I never made mention of universal consoles and the idea is not to free up console slots but to give you a new and more exciting choice on how you want to play your ship.
It also never made sense for armor consoles to work as they do now. All the other consoles are either an entire system of some kind of back ground enhancement. Starship armor always seemed like a necessary thing just like shields or engines would be.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Well in some cases it would make some ships harder to kill.
But think of this.
If there was a slot for your armor, and it was a necessary piece of equipment then there would probably be different versions with different effects.
So there would be a version that gave you an extremely high hull HP pool, but it would also give you the least healing benefit, not by nature of the high numbers but because there would have to be a downside. It could also adversely affect your inertia rating perhaps again with a modifier since a larger ship may not be effected the same as a smaller one.
Other versions may heal more or better or even faster but at the expense of overall durability.
Some may even have a scaling resistance simulating boil off of ablative plantings. So that you are penalized the longer your in combat but immune to "Vaping".
The idea is to offer some different kinds of play mechanic other than just plain resistance.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus