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Official Viscous Cycle Feedback Thread
coldsnapped
Member Posts: 520 Cryptic Developer
Please use this thread to report bugs or feedback for our new 5 man queued event Viscous Cycle on Tribble.
Viscous Cycle:
Viscous Cycle:
- This is a 5-man Queued event where mixed faction teams execute a surgical strike into Fluidic Space to destroy Undine Planet Killers that are being constructed in huge bio-organic shipyards.
- These Proto-Planet Killers are contained within impregnable maws found at three locations, designated Alpha, Beta, and Gamma.
- These maws must be opened before the team can attack and destroy the Proto-Planet Killers within.
- The most likely scenario is that you will need to beam over commandos who will do whatever they can to open the maws.
- Occasionally, there will be weak points on the shipyards that can be destroyed to open the maws instead of beaming commandos.
- A random optional objective occurs after you have destroyed the first Proto-Planet Killer. Bonus marks are available for completing this objective.
- After you destroy the second Proto-Planet Killer another optional objective is available: A Planet Killer begins to flee Fluidic Space by traversing to a rift to Normal Space where it can wreak havoc. You must destroy this launched Planet Killer before it can escape. Bonus marks are available for completing this objective.
- Each shipyard is also home to unhatched Undine Larvae.
- Players who are exceptionally speedy at destroying a Proto-Planet Killer at a shipyard will be rewarded with a number of these Larvae hatching.
- Bonus marks are available for destroying these larvae before they can escape.
- Since this takes place in Fluidic Space, the ebb and flow of the tidal forces will be exerted upon your ship throughout the entire event.
- Rewards for this event are Fleet Marks or Undine Marks.
- This is still a work in progress.
Post edited by coldsnapped on
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Comments
But first the Pros:
Pros:
+ Nice use of the M.A.C.O.s as the assault team leading the attack against the Undine's ground forces.
+ Very nice tie-in to the MACO story in The Needs of the Many.
+ Undine ships are quite challenging opponents without being OP (with one exception I'll get back to)
+ Graphics are beautiful and not as hard on my PC as I expected they would be.
Cons:
- One major one: The bloody Undine Gravity well/Fluidic Space spitter attack. This is a two fold problem:
1) The fluidic space bubbles they launch cause massive slowdown on my machine. And before anyone says "You need a new PC" my computer is a gaming PC thats still relatively new and has above average market stats atm. I can play this game typically on max settings. These bubbles are the only thing in game that drives my FPS down to about 20 FPS at most. They are causing massive lag because of how they are rendering. IF this was the only problem, I would say "get it optimized and then we'll talk."
2) They bring absolutely NO benefit to gameplay. Only frustration. They are, to be blunt a Chain Hold with extra sides of Chain Holds. First, there is the singularity that pulls you in like a Grav well. Which is fine. Except that if you try to escape it, you hit these bubbles and they stop you and they continue to stop you even after you escape from them, which sends you right back into the Singularity. Do you see the issue? These are non-escapable grav wells that when you try to escape are like smacking into a brick wall. Now, as I see it, even Dueterium Surplus, evasive manuevers won't help me. Maybe the Impulse Capacitant cell but thats takign away a console slot to counter a very specific threat and that's literally Pay to Win just to escape one ability.!
Please remove this ability from the Undine. Its a frustration, a graphics hog and does nothing but make me not want to grind this reputation and I'm one of the players who supports the Rep System.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
I'm not sure if either this or what the first poster described* are bad things. Finally there's an anomaly that even player ships have difficulty escaping from. Grav wells are a joke. This actually makes it a little challenging to get to the beam in points for the commandos.
That said, I've only played it once on normal difficulty so I need to feel it out some more before my opinion is really worth anything.
*(his second point; it goes without saying that performance killers are always bad)
Joined January 2009
They are.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
As promised here is my feedback of yesterday's game.
I was in my Multi-Vector Advanced Escort with 2x Fleet Phaser DHCs, 2xQuantum Torpedo launchers MK XII (maybe fleet) FWD and 3x Fleet Phaser turrets AFT.
Boff powers: RF, HY, beta, TT and some heals.
Difficulty: Normal
First impression was TOO EASY especially the planet killer, but if we look at it as normal difficulty I would say it's OK. My SCI in reconnaissance would have to pound a lot longer to kill it.
Larvae where very fast I think I killed maybe 5, but I was surprised to see at the end we got 44 larvae killed. But with RF and HY I am not equipped for fast little squids. For this task my SCI with good timed FAW would kill a lot. I like that they are fast and that we do not manage to kill them all. For me personally would be great to see if a team managed to kill one more each run. Also it is nice to see like they are trying to hide in anemones (hope that was intentional, that they did not just stuck).
Opening hanger bay doors in the middle of the fight is also refreshing and welcome change. I was very lucky I got a window to transport a team and did not take that long. I think my brain first registered the transport sings on the last shipyard
Thumbs up for the currents in fluidic space.
Last two points consider the space battle zone as well:
Fluidic GW: There is two possibilities' I got hang on it how to escape it with evasive maneuvers or I was just lucky (I think I was lucky). FluGW right now can't say that it needs to be nerfed. Will need a lot more runs to say something concrete.
Plant killer shields indicators first impression is imminent failure of the shields and not immune shields. I thought we nocked fwd shields down so I maneuvered to take advantage of exposed hull but then I saw that the shield are not coming back online. It is nice to see the arc where to fire but I don't get the need to hold us in the fwd firing arc. There can be lot of explanation why do planet killers have 3 impenetrable shields and fwd shields are constant offline but still it feels a little odd.
No shields fwd, torpedoes here we come
Thank you.
BR
0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
p.s. I will execute my rare Jamhadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence its just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
1) Fluidic Rifts / Bubbles
We are observing all of the feedback players are giving on this new ability, and are considering tuning possibilities to make it slightly less penalizing, mechanically. The FX issues a few have mentioned are also under review, but that's not my area of expertise so I can't really offer any info.
Those things being said, the Fluidic Rift is designed to do exactly what players are seeing it do -- it doesn't have much pull on its own, but if you get caught by a bubble (or "puddle"), the pull becomes much more significant. The counterplay to this is to try and avoid the puddles as they wander around nearby. If you can do that, the rift should not cause much (if any) disturbance in your gameplay.
2) Planet-Killer Shield Rings
These are very much a Work In Progress. We are attempting to define a visual language for an "Immunity Facing" and currently working with our established Shield Ring FX to see what we can come up with. I'm glad to hear that most players like and understand the placeholder cue already, and will quickly fly to the front of the PK to deal damage.
But we're still tuning it. The side/rear immunity on the PK is not Shields technically, so we're not certain that the current visual language is appropriate. Also, the color pink was purposefully chosen to be vivid and a little obnoxious, and is not likely to be the final color of whatever Immunity FX we come up with.
3) Interruptible Interacts on Missions
Many, if not all, of these such interacts that have been used lately are intentionally inserted into content in order to bring additional utility to a playstyle that has been sorely neglected in STO -- Tanking. The combination of a solid Tank that can pull and hold aggro, plus any other ship, makes these interacts a complete walk in the park.
The frustration being experienced by some players is perfectly normal, but it is more-or-less intentional. If you are being interrupted by attacks, then you must either shed aggro on your attacker (and a friendly Tank can do wonders to help with this), or destroy them. This is by design.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I assume this is also the reason for the interrupt with closing rifts and powering the station in Mirror Invasion as well? That would be a great mechanic if every NPC in the group wasn't using Torpedo Spread and Beam Fire at Will.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
I think there are lingering issues that still need to be addressed:
1) It shoots out about 3-4 of these bubbles meaning that while a smaller ship like an Escort or a Bird of Prey can dodge it, larger ships like cruisers basically get out of one bubble into another bubble. If it shot out one of these bubbles only it might be tolerable, but as is, its penalizing people for bringing heavier starships into the match. In addition: once you're hit with the bubble, you get a temporary disabled effect, this also hurts the larger vessels because as soon as they're out of the bubble, they're not going anywhere. In addition, it does not take into effect intertia (Which seems to be instantly negated).
2) Because of the mechanics (like a Grav Well, its a targetted attack) this is not an avoidable obstacle. These things *will* get plopped down on the places the players need to be. Its also got a very large AoE making this an overly effective territory control option.
3) This is nitpicking, but I think its important nitpicking, this mechanic should probably be disabled on any map where the battle is occuring in Fluidic Space. In normal space it makes sense the Undine might try to bring some of the Fluidic matter into our universe to slow us down. But my head goes "Uhhh!?" when I see a bubble of fluidic space in fluidic space. Instead it might make more sense to give a debuff to speed and turn rate when in Fluidic Space maps.
This is the biggest problem with this attack. In addition, the Undine will toss it down on top of the area players are trying to interact with. Because, that's precisely where the player will be. Its AoE is "Where the Player wants to be" because of its range.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
IMO - Please don't reduce penalties here, IMO STO needs SOME content that at least requires the player to actually pay some attention to what he/she is doing.
^^^
Again, I for one am happy to see the Devs adding content that has requires some (and imo still miniscule, but some) 'teamwork' and tactical thought by players as to how to effectively and efficiently do a needed task in end game content. Keep it up going forward.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
First: PLEASE read my posts on the matter. I don't have an issue with content that requires the player to pay some attention, but as is, its punishing people for flying certain ships (anything thats not an escort), using hangar pets (it instakills them) and has a very large AoE (7+ KM)
Im all for teamwork and tactical thought, but when the most valid tactical option is "Run away!" you've created a threat no one wants to fight.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
I don't mind the Rift mechanic by itself. I think it's an interesting addition that keeps you on your toes; it's honestly quite fun when a single heavy bio-ship shows up. The 'problem' is when there are multiple heavy bio-ships and you get 2-3 rifts scattered about an important point you need to be at. There is simply no dodging that much "puddle" and 'inescapable-sinkhole' spam - especially once the energy lances start knocking you about in ways you cannot prepare for or mitigate.
I've had ships jump in and immediately lance me straight into a rift. There was no opportunity to even try to evade that when you're getting pulled in multiple directions at once and every ship in the area is covered in overlapping "puddles". I'm almost afraid to find out how bad it will be with the massive hitbox on my D'deridex(any chance the clipping issue of spawning 'inside' other ships in system/sector space could be addressed?).
Again, it's perfectly fine on a smaller scale. It's when multiple rifts are opened at the same time that things just become a completely unmanageable mess. I don't know if it's mechanically possible to prevent multiple ships from spamming the same ability. My only other ideas are to neuter the ability to the point where multiple rifts would reach the equivalent point 1-2 rifts are at right now, or to make it an ability only Dreadnoughts have access to(as they're obviously more rare).
Overall it was fun, no problems aside from the odd bugs Commanderanders was aware of. I'll need to test it on elite though, as normal is far too easy to form a real opinion on this STF.
Our team pretty much rocketed through it and got the accolade speed execution, so no real time to stop and smell the roses. Beautiful map though.
I know I won't stick close to a PK again, got vaped by it's warp core explosion.
(BTW, there's a typo in the "Hunted the Hunter" accolade, should be fleeing instead of fleeting)
I suspect a number of us are already adapting to them. 10 mins into the Undine battlezone I was actively making sure I was aware of where they were and avoiding them. Then I equipped APO and they presented me with no problem whatsoever. The biggest issue will be with pets and targettable projectiles, but as you say that's part of the point.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Players tend to appreciate roles being added that help them. Not being forced into frustration if they do not have them. This is doubly true in a casual PuG centric game.
Cruiser Auras good, frustrating interrupts bad.
Yeah, AoE is the biggest problem here. I'm fine with the need to lose agro or destroy in order to do an objective. The lack of teamwork in a typical PUG means it can be frustrating, but that's an issue with other players' mindsets, not game design. AoE attacks that are impossible to dodge, on the other hand...
This. Entirely this. An aggro tank is useless when enemies are spamming AoE abilities (in the context of trying to have 1 player tank and another interact with something). I've been on both sides of this coin in the Mirror Invasion for example, as the tank and as the person trying to close the rifts while someone else tanks, and the best tank on the planet is useless against AoE. The only thing that can actually stop this is insane murderdeath DPS.
Is it possible to have the 'fluid tides' effect be only present in certain volumes of a map? Or is it an all or nothing deal? It can be difficult to beam in a commando team if the tide pushes you out of the interaction volume while your progress bar is going and you're simultaneously trying to dodge fluid blobs while under the pull influence of a rift. That's 2 movement 'debuffs' pulling or pushing you and a hazard to dodge all at once.
Or if that's not possible, perhaps increase the area of the commando beam in volumes so it's not as easy to be pushed out of them by the tide.
Joined January 2009
Why not increase the time of the interaction instead of completely cancelling it?
Also there are two main problems with this cancelling approach:
1., As many players mentioned tanking is useless against AOE. If the NPC doesn't targeting the ship beaming macos AOE will also cancel the interaction
2., As we can see in Mirror Universe two high DPS escorts can close the rifts much quicker than a science ship + tank combo.
I appreciate the effort to try to find alternative goals instead of simply killing all enemies... however the solution is encourages and rewards megaDPS builds / teams more.
I hear you all about the interrupt-on-damage interacts at the shipyards, however changing it would dramatically change the way the event is played.
Most of your ships can withstand firepower enough to completely ignore damage while you perform whatever interact needs to happen. For this event, the interact itself is a challenge that must be overcome to get the shipyard into a state where you can damage the Proto-Planet Killer. If players could with certainty push the shipyard into that phase quickly, every time, then literally half the event is neutered.
Is it possible to quickly get the doors opening? Yes, absolutely, and it was designed with this in mind, however it's more a factor of 80% skill/20% luck to pull this off. Coordinated teams will do it more often, and that's by design. Getting through this event hastily gives bonus rewards and that's something I want players to be striving towards, not doing without thought or strategy.
I would love to use a "pushback" mechanic where the interact gets longer when you get hit, to encourage not getting hit but still not have the frustration levels of some enemies' errant FAW neutering your click, but that's not something the engine supports (yet).
That almost sounds like a tank grabbing aggro might be a good thing. Whoda thunk...
CRUISERS NEED A 206% HULL BUFF
Crazy idea, but what if the interrupt was removed, but while the interact is happening, you're essentially disabled and resistances are nerfed? Making it an extreme risk to tank the interact if you've got focused fire and not just some random tiny bit of AoE damage that manages to reach you.
The entire "being hit by a stray bullet instantly interrupts all progress" doesn't really promote a tanking role, it promotes more murderDPS, since you can't tank stray bullets.
I think that interrupting on damage is trying to get across the same flavor. A transporter officer bringing the shields down just long enough to squeeze through the strike team, but when he sees incoming damage, it's shields back up and terminate the transport sequence.
Yeah... my suggestion was actually a pitch for a change to how interacts work game-wide.
Make them not interrupted by casual damage but make you very vulnerable. Like I said, it was crazy.
I really think that would be much better. I just hope that improvements such as that will see the light of day post release.
Because to be honest I it seems unless it is a new release or the content is being removed and re-released engine upgrades that would be huge quality of life improvements are never made for already released stuff. Cloak interacts are a perfect case in point.
I do not mean that as an attack, just providing my perception as feedback.