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Mirror Invasion needs a failure condition
theraven2378
Member Posts: 5,993 Arc User
Khitomer space and Cure space have failure conditions so why can't mirror invasion?
My gripe with mirror invasion that all too often the station gets disabled with bad teams, so why not have a failure condition where if the station gets disabled it means game over?
My gripe with mirror invasion that all too often the station gets disabled with bad teams, so why not have a failure condition where if the station gets disabled it means game over?
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Post edited by theraven2378 on
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That being said, I completely agree with your suggestion.
I swear what is with all these 'the game isn't hard enough for my amazingness' threads lately?
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Well if the station gets disabled then those marks are lost. The less rifts closed the less marks, the lower the defense the lower the marks.
It wouldn't punish the leachers. It would punish people who have ended up in a bad PUG, and as with all PUG content you are going to get the good, the bad and the down right terrible.
If you get a great group, and I have been in a few, you can easily carry one person. In those the one being "carried" is not a an afker but the person responsible for pulling the aggro of ships that get to the station so that it takes no damage. In a couple of groups I have been in where this strategy was used they had very little to do as we were taking care of the ships before they got there, though at the start a few did get through.
The STFs you mentioned are not a time limited event. This means that can not be used as a comparison for the Mirror invasion which is a limited time event. Because it is a time limited even then a failure condition is a no no.
Basically if you don't like the variable nature of PUGs then set up your own team and queue for it.
But no really I would be in favor of a failure condition if it weren't for the fact that there are a lot of bad players out there and it would suck to be dragged down by them only because you were victim of an unlucky dice roll with the team generator.
Joined January 2009
Well this game is not hard enough.
But TBH, a failure condition on that time gated event would be.... really really bad.
The "hard" content should really be an "optional" type of mission (ok everything is optional, but still), not something like this thats "used by the masses".
Because the game is too easy, its merely a matter of applying space bar.
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I am fully against a failure condition for the mirror event. I am sick and tired of ppl who think their strategy is the best. Did you think that those ppl that power the station maybe are doing that to get thru the event faster, and not to help the station???
You see, since this awful event started, players have devided in 3 groups, each with their own goal. So team gameplay sux when there isnt a common goal.
One group is the players that do it for the marks. Usually on elite mode and with premades from various STFs channles. The whole thing is turned into an idiotic e-peen contest who makes the most marks in a run. They will favor closing rifts but not powering the station quickly. You have rather well geared players but also very egocentric, selfcenterd and sometimes rude, who thinks their own way is the only way. Thus conflicts often emerge so you have a high risk of "failures", well in quates becouse you cant really fail it, but just get low marks, wich is a fail in their book.
Another group is the players that are hungry for expertise. Usually players/toons that just hit lvl 50 and are in bad need of it to lvl up their rep system or buy rep gear. They are generaly pour geared and will favor killing ships instaid of closing rifts or powering the station. They usually pug normals but sometimes elites too, if alts involved. Again you have a high risk of "failure".
And there is the 3rd group, who dont give a TRIBBLE about marks or expertise. These players will favor powering the station above anything else so the event to be over as quick as possible. They are usually players that do it for the event rep project, whatever is for the doff (like myself, just for the colection) or wants to sell it like they did with the one from the Cryistaline Entity. Or others who are in need of dil and the 50k dil payout will help them a bit. So again there is risk of "failure".
Adding a trully failure condition will TRIBBLE this event even more. Allready, becouse of the lenght, lots of players are not doing it, so adding something like that will kill it for sure.
This. The entire team gets points based on how many rifts they closed, whether they powered up the station and how much, the health level of the station, etc.
Poor performance means fewer points and thus fewer rewards.
They don't need a failure condition.
The last one I was in, we blew it and the station dropped to near zero health. We got no points for that objective and our rewards suffered somewhat for it. We did better with some of the other objectives, which pulled our score out of the toilet.
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So no matter how you look at it, if you get Station to level 5, getting 15-20 Rift get closed in the first round and getting the Dreadnought killed in the Bonus time you'll always get more marks on Elite than a good normal run. Which makes es better for leechers or really weak ship set up to get more marks easier if the queu them for Elite.
I do like the idea of the possibility of failing when the station drops to 0 and giving everyone 0 Marks. Since it is a Invasion, and when something reaches 0 Hull from my point it is destroyed like our ships and then there is nothing to prevent the invasion, since the anti tachyon field can not be used anymore. So it will prevent weaker player or non strategic players from entering Elite, Like i also do not enter the no win scenario with a not build ship for it.
Since it is possible that the station will drop in Hull even with a good team, the upgrading Starbase should provide i Heal like fill the Shield up and 25% HP, so you could time it when it is the best time to maybe to get the upgrade from 3 to 4 and 4 to 5.
Another option for stop "leeching" or to weak ship from entering Elite, would simply be giving twice or three times as many marks for the station having Hull as it is now. Why that?
Simply put if you would get double the marks you would get 60 - 65 Marks for completing a good game on normal, but doing bad on Elite will punish you with only 50 - 55 marks.
If the 60 - 65 marks is to much to get for a mission on normal difficulty, i would lower the amount of marks for upgrading the base every time down to 1 Mark per Level, since this is mostly a thing 1 player can do on the side and even closing rifts when doin it.
So if they would double marks for hull and be lowering marks for upgrading the station to 1 mark per level a good run would look like this on normal:
Rift Closed: 20 Marks
Starbase defense level: 5 Marks (Level 5)
Starbase Health: 20 Marks
Defeating boss Fleet within the time limit: 5 Marks:
Base Marks: 50
and an uncoordinated Elite run or weak ship on Elite:
Rift Closed: 20 Marks
Starbase defense level: 5 Marks (Level 5)
Starbase Health: 0 Marks
Defeating boss Fleet within the time limit: 5 Marks:
Base Marks: 30
Elite Multiplier: 1,5
Total Marks: 45
It would be a punish of 5 marks, but only if they do not make more mistakes, if they do not close enough rifts the rewarded mark would drop by 8 Marks more resulting in only giving 37 marks on Elite.
So Everyone who does the farming thing should consider whether they stand a chance on elite or it is better to do Normal.
The reason why i would want one of those to changes is, that the game does not punish you if you make a wrong decision whether it should be Elite or Normal. Since Elite is Elite because it should be harder then Normal and that you at least should have some decent equip, not "miss" skilled you captain and have a good Bridge officer abilities set up if you go on Elite.
Another thing would be to lock Elite for every character and and only open it after doing Normal Succesfull x times with reaching the optional goal x times or in Mirror Invasion getting more then 45 Marks x times. So that they would force everyone to learn before they can go on Elite. And after failing Elite x times, failing the optional x times or getting very low Marks x times on Mirror Invasion then it would lock Elite again for a period of time until they beat normal x times again.
The only way anyone would play this for Marks, is if they were doing it with their fleet. Pugging this for marks is just plain foolish.
Once the event is over, nobody will play this for marks if they keep it as a STF/eSTF.
The reason why i am suggesting changes, is because it looks like they are doing the same with Mirror Invasion like with crystalline Entity. Remaking/improving and STF, after improving, starting an event so that the map get played much, for bug testing and so on and maybe looking for some community suggestion, which could be use full, since Mirror Invasion probably is going to stay as a fleet action/STF
At this moment they probably even won't dare to put in a failure possibility since it would dramatically give some problem to people who have farmed with several character and gotten close to the finish line.
My opinion is just that doing bad, really bad on elite and get more for it, than doing very good on Normal, does not sound correct. And especially since that the first part is with the timer of 10 min which and the second part mostly works out under 5 min whether it is Elite or not. So the amount of time invested is more or less equal for Normal and Elite. But since you can miss the crucial part in the mission on Elite with protecting the station which is used to force the invasion back without a penality that hits you and make you get less marks or fail, then every pug who need Marks, no matter what marks would jump in Elite since he will in 99% of the cases get more Marks failing station on Elite then he would get on doing great on Normal.
So every pug who choose this way would probably have +80 more marks after failing Station Hull on Elite 14 times than doing really god on Normal. Without having to spend to much time extra time. So the weak ones are getting treated with extra marks by going for Elite and pull the team down then, going in normal wherethey would not pull the team down.
And it does really annoy me seeing player who directly are sabotaging the Invasion, i have seen lvl 50 coming in in a light cruiser(leutnant) or the transporter(which isn't much better then the light cuiser) -.- And expecting that they are the one who are doing the upgrades and the rest should be closing the rifts.
I am not screaming for a fail function here^^ Since it is very annoying to fail the mission even if it is because of pugs, but with the Starbase destroyed it would following my logic at least mean that their invasion would be a success and we would fail.
Here something that happened today a friend of mine played Elite and their station got to 0 Health 3 times. I know his ship, so i know it was not his fault with equip, skill and BO. And they all got 60 Marks for that Elite run, and those who do keep their base and etc on normal only get 50 marks???? That is the reason why at least give the mission another Mark distribution that it is a bigger penalty for getting the base down, and letting the pugs have more interest in Normal then elite.
Like i suggestet only giving the tech upgrade 1 Mark per upgrade and and 2 or 3 Marks per 10% health of the Starbase.
Invasion with only closing approx. 20 rifts in the first round and 3 marks per 1/10 Starbase Health.
Normal run with full Starbase
Rift Closed: 20 Marks
Starbase defense level: 5 Marks (Level 5)
Starbase Health: 30 Marks
Defeating boss Fleet within the time limit: 5 Marks:
Base Marks: 60
Elite with base reaching 0 % health once:
Rift Closed: 20 Marks
Starbase defense level: 5 Marks (Level 5)
Starbase Health: 0 Marks
Defeating boss Fleet within the time limit: 5 Marks:
Base Marks: 30
Elite Multiplier: 1,5
Total Marks: 45
Elite with base not going under 90,1 %
Rift Closed: 20 Marks
Starbase defense level: 5 Marks (Level 5)
Starbase Health: 30 Marks
Defeating boss Fleet within the time limit: 5 Marks:
Base Marks: 60
Elite Multiplier: 1,5
Total Marks: 90
But that's just my opinion, if they do not change anything about it, then what so ever. Just got a little frustrate today hearing the starbase go down to 0 Health because of weak random team members, who don't even write help in the chat when they have tried to close a rift in 1 -2 min and gotten already 2 or 3 typhoon spawned from their first rift they tried to close.
I've given up after scoring 40 on one too many "elite" runs and averaging 45-50 on "normal"...
However, if you're disappointed that someone's not crying for help while your A2B-FaW Scim is melting targets, why don't you take it upon yourself to glance around the map and when you see some poor Vesta or Dyson Sci-Royer struggling with two Typhoons why don't you come over and help clear the rifts then send some facemelt around...
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even in my D'D, as slow as it is, if I seen a sci ship next to a portal that can't close it because they're engaging enemies, I will NOT open fire, instead I will close the portal, THEN melt faces.
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I am not using scimitar^^ I am flying escort most of the time, and i also said decent equip for me is decent already MK XII green, since allready from that point you can do some usefull things with rear admiral ships.
And if you get more than 20 km away from other member it is difficult to see how much they are in combat or struggling, especially if they are a defensive ship, because they can tank out the damage but not deal enough to killl before there is coming respawn at the rift and so rise a small fleet from one side of the field, which can do heavy damage to the station
because in any MMO there's a subset of people who basicly want to have spiffy awesome stuff and want no one else to have it so they can brag about how awesome they are. obviously they're none too happy with this game where the block on getting "super awesome stuff" is more dependant on "time in game" then actual skill.
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But yeah, actually being able to fail in this would be terrible and I'd give up on the dumb event. Not worth it. If your performance actually affected the mission length, maybe, and if there wasn't so much random chance involved. As it is, all it would do is turn and annoying mission into a frustrating one.