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What is your beef with PvP, Cryptic?
tfomega
Member Posts: 812 Arc User
One of these threads seemed to work after awhile to get the galaxy-x augmented, so I thought I'd try with PvP.
I am trying to get to the bottom as to why Cryptic continually hates on PvP. It seems as if they only put it in the game to give a "Star Trek Feeling" but have put no effort into PvP.
PvP in the game is COMPLETELY disappointing compared to other games. It is not as if PvP in STO is revolutionary. Why is it so difficult to accomplish?
I have come to the conclusion that Cryptic knows absolutely nothing about PvP and we'd be better off with actual Star Trek fans producing the PvP aspects of this game because at least they could get it right. Continually in the tribble and PvP forums , we tell them when something isn't going to work right or completely ruin what is left of PvP, and they continually ignore us.
Please bring some PvP developers online to fully develop PvP, because you obviously need help after 4+ years.
I am trying to get to the bottom as to why Cryptic continually hates on PvP. It seems as if they only put it in the game to give a "Star Trek Feeling" but have put no effort into PvP.
PvP in the game is COMPLETELY disappointing compared to other games. It is not as if PvP in STO is revolutionary. Why is it so difficult to accomplish?
I have come to the conclusion that Cryptic knows absolutely nothing about PvP and we'd be better off with actual Star Trek fans producing the PvP aspects of this game because at least they could get it right. Continually in the tribble and PvP forums , we tell them when something isn't going to work right or completely ruin what is left of PvP, and they continually ignore us.
Please bring some PvP developers online to fully develop PvP, because you obviously need help after 4+ years.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Post edited by Unknown User on
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That's the probable endgame with what I'm seeing. They are taking step 1, which is fixing rarely used abilities to bring up their usefulness.
The skill tree isn't bad except for the fact that most people don't have a clear understanding about what each thing does and they don't ever touch to forums. They could go here:
https://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skill%20Point%20Effects.htm
and see what skills do to most things or find the posts where people put of formulas, but in general, most people don't bother and Cryptic makes no effort in just putting it out there clearly in black and white.
ROFL
Careful, there is a beef filled developer...with fangs. Speaking of which, I could really go for a taco right about now.
If you don't get the reference, then you need to get out on the forums more often.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
good luck my friend.
have fun kill bad guys
Cryptic knows plenty about PvP. All you have to do is look at Neverwinter to see this. They have:
Gear score based PvP matchmaking
Open world PvP battle ground with persistent territory control just introduced in Icewind Dale
PvP leaver penalty
And most importantly, a thriving PvP player base. You can hop into a Q at any level and be in a match in no time
Plus other PvP oriented rewards and such I'm not thinking of at the moment. Point is, Cryptic has made an active decision to moth ball STO PvP for whatever reason. The shuttle map was their sad attempt at throwing us a bone and probably only got done because one of the staff there thought it was fun and pushed for it. Take a look at any given time and see it's a total flop.
Cryptic throws us a few Zen for an occasional tournament here and there but it seems we'd be better off stopping all tournaments and refusing there Zen donations to say "we're not ok with this and we're not going to do it any longer".
Or in other words:
"I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!"
(Yikes, wonder how many get THAT reference)
It's my PvP and I want it now....
edit: Course, it had been forever since I'd been to Ker'rat - it was kind of embarrassing...meh. I've been doing the spaceNASCARbar thing in PvE for too long...bah.
There was a farmer that had a dog, and _ _ _ _ _ was his Name-O!
For those that do not know what those five letters are, don't worry - Cryptic's got a lockbox coming where you've got a minute chance to get a letter with each box you open. Only three of the letters, mind you - one of them is available in the Lobi store. The final letter is available from a 3 week grind...
welcome to star trek angry.... bugs
Bad Proggies > Angry Bugs
:P
This is usually where the ignorantly hopeful people chime in to say: "Highlighting PvP would bring more people to the game and get people to spend more money, as it's required to be better equipped in order to compete!" And while that sentence isn't wrong, the reason that it is ignorant is because those speaking it haven't really considered what highlighting PvP would mean.
It would metaphorically 'shine a bright light' on the worst aspect of Star Trek Online: It's game balance. To this date, Cryptic has gone out of their way to keep the game fun but ultimately casual. Balance has never been needed to make PvE fun, because there is never any question that a group is going to succeed: groups always succeed. It's more about how much fun you have getting there, to which there are few wrong choices.
'Min-max' for PvE currently isn't important when one-quarter of that effort will do to complete the content with ease. But for PvP, 'Min-max' sets the bar for being able to compete, and much more clearly illustrates that there are fewer real options and many more pitfalls.
For Cryptic to highlight and 'shine a light' on PvP, it would have to accept responsibility for improving the ugly aspects that would ultimately be revealed. Those of us who have played PvP at a high level know that this is no short list. A lot of people who have played PvP at a high level realize that it would take nothing short of a complete overhaul of the game to make it right.
This brings us back to the concept of "business logic". Cryptic may genuinely want to repair and highlight PvP, but continually realizes that it probably won't be profitable for them to do so. They already make money of the existing game at a decent rate, why would any sane company risk losing the current base to changes which may or may not bring financial reward? If casual players are meeting their demands, why risk turning even some away with wide sweeping changes?
It would cost money to implement changes to PvP, it would drastically change the game, and (even if we can agree that those changes would make it a better game) many casual players would feel betrayed and abandon STO. After all, Cryptic has, without deception, made it clear this is a game for casual players.
Those of you who have given the topic honest and intellectual thought have already come to this same conclusion as I have. It's not that they don't want to fix PvP, it's that they can't fix PvP.
At least not the way that people on this forum want.
I still have hope that eventually Cryptic (and the PvP players begging for change) will realize that while having "PvP equipment" is a road that has caused criticism for PvP in a lot of games, it's really the only financially-acceptable option that PvP has in STO. The only way PvP can ever be improved is for it to be completely separated from the casual aspect of the game.
For those who would still believe there are ways to fix PvP without going to this extreme (or who still believe it would be financially profitable for Cryptic), I admire your optimism. But the truth is, you aren't looking at it from the perspective of a business but instead from the perspective of a community. Its why your optimism will remain anchored in fantasy.
Whatever happens, I'll still be one of many who keeps an eye on the state of things, hoping to one day return to a better game for non-casual players. Until then, though, we can't be strung along by what Cryptic wants to do, only what it can do.
And it can't profitably highlight PvP.
Lag Industries STO/TOR Guild
Call it the PvP Reboot
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Cryptic doesn't know what would and would not be profitable for them concerning PvP and neither does anyone else. They know it is not profitable right now because they never gave it a chance to begin with. All the people who already moved on to other PvP related games are no longer here. Not to mention, cryptic can't even measure how strong PvP is right now due to the botched PvP queues, limited PvP events, etc.. with which to report on. Until they make a mandatory question when logging into the game which asks "How frequently do you PvP?" and have people answer as casually, all the time, none of the time, etc.. they won't know how strong PvP actually is.
If they had actually invested in PvP to begin with, I would imagine it would be a large chunk of their sales for the people who left to go elsewhere. PvPers are the only group that test everything to see if it can give them an edge in PvP combat.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Honestly i think you already know why. There is no money making for cryptic here, its quite obvious. And it never will be. The crowd/community simply isnt interested either.
kkthx sorry
I kinda accepted that fact that STO is no longer PvP worthy in any way shape of form, no matter how much i liked it to be.
*Acceptance* (Quote from Dammy
so, what do the rest of you actually consider pvp development and content? we sort of have had plenty if you think about it. aside from all that though, we NEED leader board based match making, that even with a small number of players in the ques would at least balance the team better then a random combination would.
Just like the NSA does not spy on anyone.....
A casual game is something you can drop into, know you'll level up or acquire some meaningful loot within 5-20 minutes of play and leave at any point without consequence. You may pay $50 for the box, or not, with micro transactions being micro, cosmetic or xp-boosts and not silly i-win mobiles that have little PvE utility but break PvP for no good reason other than $$$.
Most of all, the majority of the casual games I play are pvp - with events that although structured, are often non-reproducible, and provide enjoyment in repetition because of infinite variation by design, and not mind numbing boredom in pre-scripted encounters that only change if you do something different.
In short, it feels like cryptic don't have real game designers, or that any who do exist have had the art, vision and bravery bludgeoned out of them by the same axe that defines the :metrics: monkey producer style designers who are literally breaking the f2p model they invented.
The captain of the U.S.S. Monetize might have a certain disdain for the PvP community...with their complaints of P2W/power creep and the like. After all, it's his 5 year mission to squeeze out every dime he can...
Ya! hehe. That works too.
I respectfully disagree with you here. Cryptic has spent the last 3-4 months doing things to improve balance in the game. Have they not? I'm no expert on this TRIBBLE but I'd think that adding a gear score and changing the PvP queue matchmaking system to group players based on that score would greatly improve what we have now and have zero negative impact on casual players. No?
This is simple, for me - I'm not sure if it's content but at the barest minimum #s 3 & 4 are what it would take for me to ever get back into this game. The others would be "nice to have".
1) Let us use some of the other maps that already exist.
2) Add some form of matchmaking / ranking system so the minnows are not fed to the sharks with no way to escape or improve.
3) Rebalance all of the nightmares that have been unleashed - primarily the itemized powers. Leave PvE alone, so those guys can continue to TRIBBLE and watch mobs die by the dozen for the zero effort gameplay they seem to desire.
4) Stop making horrendously OP items/powers that are not even used in PvE most of the time but ROFLSTOMP all over PvP balance.
5) Institute diminishing returns for stacked buffs and debuffs, especially those that are AoEs.
This is an awesome post. Not only did you get a zing in there, but you did it with a good old TOS reference